Conference napalm::guitar

    It's no secret that Ibanez built the Roland synth guitars.
    
    As far as tracing what Fender is doing, it's tough to keep
    up with what they are making and where, especially where the imports 
    are concerned. I heard that Fender bought the Tokia factory in Japan 
    and makes all the imports bearing the Fender name, plus some of the 
    Squires there. 
    
    I heard a dealer say that even the American made Fenders have imported 
    parts. He claimed that even the necks were made in Canada, not US. This 
    Dealer sells Peavey and does not have a Fender Franchise, so he is
    definately biased.
    
    Some salesmen are honest, and in the know and you can believe some of
    the details. Then again, I run into quite a few BS artists. I know one
    dealer that repeatedly mislabels Fender 50's & 60's series instruments
    as '52, '57, '62 re-issues. The former are made in Japan and the latter
    are made in USA. 
    
    Mark
     
    
    

Some of it is most certainly true..

I've got a Strat Standard, body is stamped with Made in Usa,
neck says Made in Japan!!

Ahh what the hell, plays good enough; so be it..  I guess since labor is
cheaper, the Japan made necks are cheaper,,  I really don't care, The
guitar plays well, sounds nice..  and didn't cost me my first born.

My Casio MG510 Midi Guitar is supposedly made by Ibanez... Again, plays
well, sounds fine (in guitar mode) and works quite well as a midi
controller.

    "Made in Japan"...it actually can mean that the product is very good.
    
    I have some audio/video equipment that was made in Japan, and it's
    excellent. Very reliable; lots of attention paid to detail.
    
    "Made in USA"...a mixed bag, IMO. I just noticed that the paint color
    on my car is different from the door to the body. It's a slight
    difference, but typical of America's less-than-perfect devotion to
    perfection with some products. 

       As of last year when I had gone to a Fender seminar, Fender
    had a couple of things going on. The Squire series was made in
    Japan and here. They wanted to keep a joint ventures thing going
    with them.
       Some parts are made in Japan, but assembled here. It's kind of
    a mix. The Rep had said that they wanted to bring a little more
    production back here.
    
    Note: If it sounds and feels good, go for it - regardless of where
            it was made.
    
    /J

     I,ve noticed that Made in USA imprinted on a guitar usually means
     a 175-200 dollar markup in price. I wonder How long that will last
     considering that companies such as Ibanez are gaining such a good
     reputation for quality products. One reason for buying a Made in USA
     guitar { Fender, Gibson,etc. } may be resale value. Although resale
     shouldn't be the reason for picking { Pun } a guitar, it is a factor.
     Would the resale value of a Tokia guitar be higher than the average
     "Strat" copy because you could say " It's made in the same factory,
     production line, as Fender?

    
    Resale values are quite fickle.  The "made in USA" thing is simply due
    to player's preferences.  Notice that when Fender decided to start
    their new high-end Heartsfield line, they decided to build in Japan,
    not the US.
    
    Resale value can fluctuate wildly depending on who's hot and who's
    playing what.  Les Pauls were almost worthless in the mid 60s, then
    along came Mike Bloomfield and Clapton and suddenly Gibson actually
    started making 'em again.  Likewise, the demand for things like Flying
    Vs and Explorers in the early seventies got Gibson to reintroduce those
    models, even though back in 1959 they had a hard time moving out the
    few they did make.
    
    Then go look at the price tag for a pre-1957 Fender P-bass.  Real
    expensive, but noone is bothering to reissue it, neither Fender or any
    of the Japanese cloners (ESP, Tokai, Fernandes).  That's because noone
    except Dusty Hill from ZZ Top seems to play 'em anymore.
    
    If the blues make a big comeback during the recession, just wait and
    see what happens to the resale value of your pink whammy-bar
    monster....
    
    							Brian

     I'm not concerned w/ the resale of MY guitars, I just think that
     old Fenders, Gibsons etc are way overpriced relative to thier
     utilitarian purpose. Asthetics{sp?} seem to be far more important
    

    
    
    	I think Brian's right. I have a 1980 Rick 4001 bass that 
    I've (on and off again) been trying to sell and at this period
    in time, Rick basses are not in favor, so no one is buying 
    them, which in turn drives the price down..
    
    
    	Re: 1957 P Basses
    
    	I'd buy one if they reissued it! :-)
    

    
     No matter who plays or what is in style the music store will say
    
     Ummm.....I can only give you $50 for that guitar ...$60 in trade.
     
     But mister...it's a Fender/Kramer/Ibanez..........
    
            Should a player buy what feels good ? I realize that
      most Hondo's are unplayable to some extent <set noflame> but
     would you be inclined to play/buy a Hondo that played great and
     was built on the same production line as Fenders? 
    
                                        Jon
    
          

    
    
    	re: .-1
    
    	I agree that you need to buy what feels good and suits 
    you're style, etc. But you'd be foolish not to at least 
    consider what the resale (not *TRADE IN*) value of the axe
    is gonna be if you decide to get rid of it.
    
    	Notice I said resale, not trade in. You almost never get
    a "fair" price on a trade. You can usually get a decent price
    if you sell it privately. 
    
    -T
    

    Re: .9
    
    Frankly, I couldn't give a f**k where a guitar was built or who made it
    if it's well made and playable.  Of course, if every Korean-made Hondo
    I try plays and sounds awful, I'm less inclined to pull another off the
    rack, eh?
    
    As far as "made in the same factory", well a Chevette and a Corvette
    come from the same factory but I think most people expect the Corvette
    to be built a bit better, eh?  
    
    Part of the reason some US makers turned to Japanese factories was that
    they couldn't stay competitive building in the US.  Look at some of
    Gibson's disastrous attempts at low-priced guitars like the Firebrands,
    Sonex series, the Challenger, etc.  They finally saw the light and
    started to import Les Pauls, Firebirds, 335s, etc. under the Epiphone
    name and have come up with a good budget guitar instead of an
    embarassment.
    
    							Brian

|    	Re: 1957 P Basses
|    	I'd buy one if they reissued it! :-)
        
        They have  !    American  Musical  Supply  has  50's and 60's
        reissue P-basses listed.  No prices though, since you have to
        call them to get  ANY  of Fenders prices.  I've been drooling
        over the 60's reissue J-bass. :^)
        
        Matt

    
    
    	Wasn't the '57 the last of the original styled P-basses? 
    Y'know, slab body, single coil pickup, tele style headstock..
    
    	The only thing that comes close to this is the pre-'72
    Telecaster Basses. 
    
    	If Fender reissued either the original P-bass or the 
    single coil telecaster, I'd be the first in line to get 
    one. 
    
    

        Nope.   .  .standard P-bass.  P-bass pickups, solid slab body
        and Strat style  headstock  on a Maple neck.  This is NOTHING
        like the Tele.
        
        Oh well. . .I just noticed that it said 50's reissue P-Bass.
        
        Matt

    I'd buy an old 'Tele-P-bass' reissue too, by the way.
    
    There is a great book on guitars from Japan, called:
    
    "The history of electric guitars"
    
    Printed in Japan, not in english, it has more color catalog reprints
    and pictures then any other book.  Info on rare US & Japan items, 
    factory address in Japan, and hints on who makes what.  A friend of
    mine translated alot of it too me, and it realy is interesting.  Also,
    the magazine "Player" from Japan  is good too.
    
    It's hard to figure who makes what.  Washburn makes alot for folks,
    their 'rejects' are sometimes sold under the 'Quest' name.  Also,  
    Gibson  has a whole line of true to spec LP Jr's etc they have made
    there.  Why they never come here, I don't know.  Great guitars.
    
    In Japan, you can tour the factories, even take classes on guitar
    building, run by those factories.  I wish U.S. factories would try
    that.
    
    As far as who makes a better product, Japan makes both crap &
    good stuff, just like the U.S.  As far as resale, (avoid trades),
    U.S. products win hands down.  Check the Blue Book...
    
    And I too echo the statements:
    
    Wait 10 years, and find out what yer DayGlow pink, star shaped, striped
    'Bondo' whammy bar(ed) toy is worth resale.  Or, if you can stand the
    shame in trying to sell it.  I won't care if it cost ya $1200 new with
    case.  Here's $75 for the case.
    
    Another ballon popped...
    
    
    Jay
    

    RE:  .7
    	I agree Jon. My '69 Strat cost me ~$200.00 back in 1975. How much
    is it worth today? Maybe a few bucks more BUT to me it's worth $200.00.
    My 1971/1972 Les Paul Custom cost me (without getting into details
    about this guitar) cost me ~$335.00 and personally that's all it's
    worth...  to me. No, I'm not interested in selling either guitar, but
    the prices these things carry today are totally cRaZy in my mind. My
    '69 Fender "P" bass cost me $155.00 back in 1972, but then that was
    all it's worth...  even today. I mean it's a nice bass, but how much
    is a *new* P-bass today? I'd but an Ibanez, or something else instead 
    if I was looking for a bass today. Fender basses are too over priced
    today. They're nice basses, but too much for my budget. Especially
    when I can buy a really nice guitar, or bass for alot less and get the
    same feel/tone. If not...  I'll just change the pick-ups!
    
    	Fred (who likes his guitars, but couldn't afford to buy them today)

lets face it,,,

What name brand guitar isn't over priced ???

I saw a 57 reissue Strat with a Maple neck at a store last night.

I almost needed oxygen when I saw the $1099 price tage..

"Are you SeRiOUS?" Says I, aloud...

"they don't give em away" Says Paul.. (store owner)

Geesh!  So I said, "Tell me, what difference is there in this guitar,
and the Stratocaster *YOU* sold me in 73 for $275, that's worth $800.00 more?"

He said "Nuthin I can spot.."

I paid $375 for a gold top Delux in 75, today there about one thousand dollars
IT'S THE SAME F******G GUITAR!



How bout the Gibson 335s for a modest $1,700 dollars!

It's ludicrous!

    
    	Hah!  My 335 was a mere $1100!  8^) 8^0 8^)

    Fred, Your' guitars are worth a lot more than you think. The bottom
    line is if all of your guitars were lost or stolen, and you needed
    to replace them, a comparable Strat would be at least $500, the Les
    Paul would be at least $600, and the P-Bass would be at least $500.00
    Brand new American made models (of the Fenders) would be more. Just
    try to find a decent American-made P-bass in the average music stores
    these dayz. They are hard to find. It took me about 3 months to find
    my Jazz Bass. I found the perfect store to shop for vintage guitars
    in Allston (Mr. Music) but the prices ain't cheap.
    
    I figure by the time I'm ready to buy a Les Paul, it'll cost me about
    $900.00 for one I'll want.
    
    Re. the last reply, the author seemed to be quoting list prices. No one
    pays list. ES335's brand new should be under a grand, unless they are
    a special model (like the quilted maple one Mr. C's had at one time for
    $1100.00).
    
    It wasn't that long ago that you could get a really mint Strat for
    $350.00, or an excellant Les Paul for $500.00. These are getting to
    be much harder to find, and a lot more money. I paid $300 for my tele
    about 9 years ago. Today, it's worth twice that.  Part of the reason
    is that the US dollar is not as strong as it was 10 years ago, and
    the Japanese are scooping up many nice Gibsons and Fenders. If you
    compare guitar prices with prices of cars or houses, you will find
    that cars and real estate have more than doubled in price over the
    last 10 years, but guitars have only increased by about 25%. Inflation
    has not really hit the guitar market as hard as it has hit other
    markets.
    
    Mark
    
    ps. Fred, let's make a package deal. Let's see $200 for your Strat,
    $350 for your LP, and $155 for your P-bass. I'll give you $700 for 
    the set !!
    
    Mark
    

yes I confess, i was quoting list price..

    From the looks of the paper, the Ibanez RG550s retain their value
    fairly well.
    
    Mike

    Ibanez may be the only ones that will retain value.
    
    How about all the folks buying vintage Gretsch?  Prices were stupid
    and then they start re-making a few models, and the bottom fell out!
    
    I know folks who lost $,$$$.$$'s.
    
    Any guitar is only worth the going value to replace, unless a factor
    of desire to own "it" pushes it higher (or lower).
    
    Jay