| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1987.1 | I recomend Tom | AND::ZURAWSKI | | Wed Oct 03 1990 10:18 | 7 |
| Yes, I know Tom. He worked on my Martin (general stuff plus intonation)
and is currently fixing a loose fret for me. He has done a good job for
me so far. I have been to his house and seen him working on many old
martins (re-setting the necks, etc). He appears to have a lot of work
and thus is popular (and thus must be good).
John
|
| 1987.2 | 1st fret job cummin' up! | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Greee Veee King | Fri Dec 07 1990 11:31 | 17 |
|
I'm going to take a shot at my first fret job. Any advice??
Are they glued in???
If so is there something that disolves the glue first?
How do you dudes bend your fret wire, if you don't have an
expensive rig?
Do you glue them back in??? Or do the tangs hold them in??
Gree Veee Greg, you've done this??
|
| 1987.3 | You'll love it! | GOES11::G_HOUSE | ToneQuest: The Ultimate Adventure | Fri Dec 07 1990 12:56 | 75 |
| >Greg, you've done this??
Yeah I've done a couple and I have tons of literature on the process.
Send mail for more details, but I think the main things would be to
heat the frets before you go yanking on them in case they're glued in.
Well known New York Luthier Roger Sadowski recommends using warm moist
heat. He says the moisture helps prevent fretboard chipping as the
frets are removed. He puts a damp cloth over the fretboard and heats
it with a clothing iron for this, rolling the cloth back as he works
the frets out.
Tip: Watch carefully for chipping as you remove the old frets and glue
the chips back into place. Avoids those nasty looking divots next to a
fret. I haven't done an ebony board, but I'm told they chip worse then
rosewood or maple.
> Are they glued in???
It's hard to tell ahead of time whether the frets are glued in or not.
It's not necessary, the tangs will hold the frets in, but it's still
common practice. I don't believe that most manufacturers are gluing the
frets in these days, but it's not totally predictable. I did a low end
model Gibson SG awhile back that had the frets glued in with white
glue. My friend was the original owner of the guitar, so I'm sure they
were the original frets.
There's a couple of different kinds of glue that people use for this,
white glue and epoxy. If they're epoxied in, then you need a little
more heat to crack the epoxy. If it's white glue, then mild heat with
a little moisture will help.
If the frets were epoxied in, then you'll need to do the new frets that
way as well, since the fret slots are typically widened to the point
that the tangs alone won't hold the frets in them during this process.
Get yourself a Dremel tool and some small dental burrs to clean out the
old epoxy from the fret slots before you re-epoxy them in if you do
this.
> How do you dudes bend your fret wire, if you don't have an
> expensive rig?
I popped for the fretwire bender from Stewart-MacDonalds. It sure
saves a lot of time and is a heck of a lot more accurate then doing
them by hand. However, it does cost $75 or so. Many people take a
pair of pliers and cut a slot in one face and a groove in the other
side, so that they will hold the fret wire and bend them by hand.
I've read that if you use the epoxy glue method of holding the frets in
that you must be very precise in bending the fretwire and that doing
them by hand isn't recommended.
> Do you glue them back in??? Or do the tangs hold them in??
Unless the guitar had the epoxy style glue-in before, the tangs will
hold them in. Fretwire comes in different tang widths, so be sure you
get some that's appropriate for the job you're doing. Since I know you
shop at Stewart-MacDonalds a lot, I'll tell you that their fretwire is
(I believe) a little oversized from stock, so you may need to increase
the width of the fret slots a little before you tap them in.
One thing to beware is pounding in some frets with oversized tangs and
incurring a back bow in the neck from the wedging effect. I've heard
that it's pretty easy to do this.
I think the most important part of the refret job is levelling the
fretboard. You HAVE to do this! Do a nice job of this and the fret
surfacing that you do after you get the new frets in will be REALLY
easy.
Naturally, all this is just my approach and I don't have an outstanding
amount of experience. I will say that the ones I've done have come out
beautifully. Have fun Steve, I'm sure you'll enjoy doing it, I know I
really do!
Greg
|
| 1987.4 | Thenkyew, Greggy! | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Greee Veee King | Fri Dec 07 1990 17:46 | 20 |
|
Wow, Greg, what a note!!! A damp cloth and an iron, shit, I never
could have tought of that! Thanks for the help, I'm feeling a little
timid after some of your warnings, but being timid is usually good for
me when I try to do something for the first time... cep' of course
playing naked blues at the wharf!! Heh, heh... pretty tense stuff...
Thanks for the help, pal... BTW how the hell will I know if it's
white glue (if the answer is "Cos it's white!", I'll shoot myself from
embarrassment). Dental tools.... YOU CAN GET DENTAL TOOLS!!!!????
Shoot that might be just what I need for my new cat-gut string
process!! Where the hell am I gonna get dental tools?? Don't say from
a dentist!
Gree Vee
This won't hurt a bit!
|
| 1987.5 | More info | GOES11::G_HOUSE | ToneQuest: The Ultimate Adventure | Fri Dec 07 1990 18:25 | 34 |
| Don't worry about the warning stuff too much Steve, because it's a rare
guitar that's got the frets epoxied in. That's the only really tough
scenerio and it's not all that bad as long as you know there are people
out there doing it that way and you prepare yourself in case you do
happen to get one like that. Chances are you won't have to worry about
it.
And yeah, on the dental burrs (these are the little drill bit things
that they use to hack up your teeth, 'cept we put 'em in Dremel tools
and hack up guitar fret slots with 'em), I ordered mine from some
Stewart-MacDonalds, order number 1189 page 12 in the #45 catalog. I
haven't used them yet...
They say you actually can get them from dentists because they
apparently dull quickly when used on teeth, so they replace them often,
but the ones they toss are still sharp enough to use effectively on
wood, so if you can find a friendly dentist that'll give you his
rejects, you'd be all set.
On the white glue thing, you can't really tell it's even there until
you get a fret out. That stuff dries kind of clear, so if you see some
gunk on the fret tang when you pull it, then it likely had white glue
on it. They still come out pretty easy even without heat or moisture,
it's no big deal. I pulled the whole set out of that SG before I
realized that the glue was even there.
I like doing refrets, I gotta get myself motivated to do a couple of my
guitars that need it now. I'm going to do the epoxy glue-in on at
least one of them, seems like a cool idea. Luthiers like Dan Earlewine
and Don Teeter claim it's the best way to do it.
Naked blues at the wharf... Hahaha! That's one I *gotta* do!
Greg
|
| 1987.6 | | GSRC::COOPER | MIDI Rack Puke | Fri Dec 07 1990 18:42 | 4 |
| FWIW - I used to see old dental tools at auctions, flea markets, yard
sales... All over the place. Great guit-gadgets...
jc
|
| 1987.7 | It Works!!! | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Greee Veee King | Fri Dec 14 1990 11:28 | 29 |
|
Housey, M'Boy, yer a genius! Everything worked the way you said it
would. I used my iron and I could actually see the glue melting under
the frets... I'm putting mine in with Elmer's and going to let it sit
over night... Before I begin shaping... Questions:
Is there an easy way to trim the overlap of the frets?? On teh
sides of the neck??
Observations:
It's a fun process, bending the fret wire is a bitch, and I've
probably got a sub-par job as a result of not having a wire bending
jig. I had to bend the wire a hell of a lot more that I thought that
I'd have to, the ends just wouldn't stay down without a good bend. The
process for me was: Apply glue with a toothpick, dead blow the fret (I
have a little brass hammer that I put a chair foot protector on).. the
hammering worked best when I held the neck in my hand, just under the
fret being installed (less vibration to the other frets and a better,
safer blow) then I'd wipe off the hammer and the neck with a damp cloth
and begin again?? Greg, is there a better way.. I'd hate to be working
with epoxy this way... How do you get your glue in the fret slots??
REgards,
Gree Vee
|
| 1987.8 | Sounds like it's working! | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Join the Brotherhood of Tone | Fri Dec 14 1990 12:33 | 20 |
| Fun, isn't it Steve? 8^)
> Is there an easy way to trim the overlap of the frets?? On teh
> sides of the neck??
Cut the excess off with your end nippers and then use a nice flat file
to put the proper bevel on. Don't put too much bevel on them, just
enough so they don't snag your fingers, I hate frets that have a giant
bevel on them so when you hit it they're instantly off the fretboard.
re: gluing the frets in
When you use white glue, the main thing holding the fret in is the
tang, when you use epoxy you widen the slots and let the epoxy do all
the work. You have to clamp them until the epoxy sets up. I wouldn't
sweat this with the Elmers.
Sounds like you got it going fine to me.
Greg
|
| 1987.9 | Two nips or one?? | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Greee Veee King | Fri Dec 14 1990 16:49 | 14 |
|
When you nip.. do you nip once or twice?? Like ummm.. once to make
the fret even with the SIDE of the fret board then again to put the
bevel on or do you do it all at once.. Scary process at first Greg
and I got better at it by the end (as usual) and had to remove and redo
a couple of frets... They popped out, but when I left to get to work,
all the frets were layin' right up against the rosewood.. I'll finish
the mothers tomorrow... Wow, I bought the ROCK JUMBO from Stew-Mac...
Sheeeeeeeeit, are they big! Look like bass frets.. hope I like em'
Greve Unit
|
| 1987.10 | Frets of flame | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Join the Brotherhood of Tone | Fri Dec 14 1990 17:24 | 23 |
| > When you nip.. do you nip once or twice?? Like ummm.. once to make
> the fret even with the SIDE of the fret board then again to put the
> bevel on or do you do it all at once..
Just once I'd think, use a file to put the bevel on. It'll be a lot
more even and you won't risk getting any too short to finish off with
the file.
> Wow, I bought the ROCK JUMBO from Stew-Mac... Sheeeeeeeeit, are they
> big! Look like bass frets.. hope I like em'
That's what I used last time too. I liked 'em a lot, that SG felt
great!
FWIW, they're not near the size of the frets in my Charvel or the ones
they use in ESP electrics. Anyone know where to get the really giant
fretwire from?
Steve, you're really starting to get me hyped about doing frets again.
Too bad I don't have any free time right now.
Greg (who's wishin he didn't have other stuff to do this weekend so he
could do a fret job on one of his guitars)
|
| 1987.11 | Subcontract deal?? | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Greee Veee King | Fri Dec 14 1990 18:33 | 13 |
|
Yer, Sh*ttin' me, House.. there are bigger frets out there than
this wow.. I checked my new Strat (the deluxe, I thought it had really
big frets when I bought it) and even they are smaller.. OBOY, I'm
hoping these big dudes will help me be a whiz-kid at bending. How bout
I subcontract my wire bending to you, Greg?? I mail you the wire, you
run it through the wire bending thang, and ummm.. keep half the wire I
send you or something like that??
Steve
|
| 1987.12 | Gregs fretwire bending service | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Join the Brotherhood of Tone | Fri Dec 14 1990 19:11 | 12 |
| re: bending fretwire for you
Sure man, no problem. Send it on out and specify the radius you want
it bent to. I can do one of those 2 foot segments that Stew-Mac sends
ya in about 10 seconds!
They claim that if you bend it back and forth in this fret bending jig
a few times it gets harder and lasts longer too. I don't know if it's
true or not.
Greg
|
| 1987.13 | It does work that way... Sheesh 10 secs?? | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Greee Veee King | Fri Dec 14 1990 21:49 | 14 |
|
Oh yeah, absolutely, bending wire like that does harden it! As a
young engineering student at UMaine I used to know the physical
explanation, has something to do with increasing the stress (heh,
increased stress hardens me up pretty good, so maybe that's it), but as
a graying, brain dead, mid-life hippy, I'm struggling to remember where
I leave my teeth after I brush em'. Anyway, I know that it works! BTW
Now lemme see, a good way to measure radius would be to compare curves,
right??
Gree Vee
|
| 1987.14 | Fast and precise | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Join the Brotherhood of Tone | Mon Dec 17 1990 16:57 | 10 |
| re: Sheesh 10 secs??
Yeah, really 10 secs! It's really nice. 8^)
> Now lemme see, a good way to measure radius would be to compare curves,
> right??
Yeah.
Greg
|
| 1987.15 | Whoa.. I learned some new stuff!!! | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Greee Veee King | Wed Dec 19 1990 16:34 | 52 |
|
Greg, can't thank you enough for the help along the way.. Here's
some notes on my new FrankenStrat... That I absolutely love, it's the
last guit I'll ever need.. etc. etc. etc.
The fret wire install was scarier than I thought, the glue really
needs to be heated before removing at least on this early 80s Squire
strat it did. There isn't an easy way to radius fret wire.. I got
little bends in mine, but they seemed to go away as I tapped them in.
If I can arrange it in the future, I'll send them to the House Unit or
someone else with a radiusing jig!
I used a ton of glue and wiped it off after banging in the frets,
more glue (Elmer's ) more worked better than less.
New fret wire is a thing of beauty to behold, but you dudes knew
that!
After the frets set over night, I gave it the standard Gree Vee
King fret job, nothing new to report here.
The larger frets are Killer!!! I can't believe I did witout them
so long, everything is easier!!! But.... I did have to install a new
nut.. so far my nut manufacturing experiences have involved me
destroying 20 peices of bone (over a long period of time) and never
really creating a usable nut.. this time I used Stew-Mac Micarta and
lemme tell you dudes.. this stuff is eeeeeeeeeeeeeeasy to work with I
made a super nut on my first try and I don't notice a great change in
tone from the Micarta to bone.
REVELATION NUMBER TWO
I decided to go berserk and install a couple of humbuckers
in this baby, a serial/parallel switch and a "Neck on no matter what"
switch. Lemme tell ya I'm freaking!! Now I see why you fellers like
those ibanezs so much!! The HB-single coil-HB configuration is
incredibly flexible (yeah, Buck, I've heard you say it before, but
I've never heard it like this) and with the patented Gree Vee King
rythmn switch I can turn the neck and bridge HBs on together.. jest
like that other great guitar that I can't afford... Hey it ain't
exactly Les Paul, but it's damn close... amazing to be able to go from
an in between strat sound to a Gibson sound with the flick of a
switch!! Wicked Cool!!!
Merry Christmas Fellow Guitar Noters!! You dudes are mui cool!!
The Greve Unit (Or as the Hammer would say.... you dudes are PROPER!)
|
| 1987.16 | Allright! | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Join the Brotherhood of Tone | Wed Dec 19 1990 17:10 | 31 |
| > Greg, can't thank you enough for the help along the way..
NO prob, glad to offer what little assistance I could.
> There isn't an easy way to radius fret wire..
They say it takes lots of practice. I never got the practice since I
was lazy and bought the radius bending jig before doing my first
fret job. :-)
> The larger frets are Killer!!! I can't believe I did witout them
> so long, everything is easier!!!
I love playing on BIG frets!
> so far my nut manufacturing experiences have involved me destroying 20
> peices of bone (over a long period of time) and never really creating a
> usable nut..
HAHAHA! I have to admit that I laughed out loud at this one. I'm
sorry, Steve, it just struck me as funny. That's a pretty substantial
amount of money to spend on bone nut blanks! Or did you try and cut
them out of something left over from a steak or something?
Micarta really is easy to work with. I wondered about it's longevity
though. If it's that easy to cut/file, won't the strings also wear it
substantially?
Sounds like ya had a good go of it Greve-mon, Congratulations!
Greg
|
| 1987.17 | The new Franken-caster | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Greee Veee King | Wed Dec 19 1990 22:31 | 131 |
|
Heh, heh, yep, I spent a ton on nut material that I eventually
destroyed.. pretty embarrassing really! [;^(
Here's the wiring for my new Franken-caster...
LEGEND
------
single coil pickup
[----------]---|> ground
|
| output
humbucker
[----------]
[----------]---|> ground
|
| output
control pot
_____
( )
/ | \
5 way switch
_
o| |
o| |o
o| |o
o| |o
|_|o
SPST switch
O
O
O
DPDT switch
O O
O O
O O
-----------------[ Gree Vee King FrankenCaster ]----------------------
neck
[----------]
[----------]---|> ground
|
| output
middle
[----------]---|> ground
|
| output
bridge
[----------]
[----------]---|> ground
|
| output
_
bridge ----------o| |
middle ----------o| |o---|------- volume pot
neck --+-------o| |o |
| -----o| |o---|------- tone pot 1
| | |_|o---|------- tone pot 2
| |____________|
| to other side
|
|___to neck no matter what switch___
volume
_____
( )
/ | \
___neck no matter what switch here______/
>>>> neck no matter what switch
O----- from 5 way neck connection
O----- to left side of volume pot
O----- no connection
>>>>> series/parallel switch (Dimarzio)
to output -- | | --|> to ground
red -- O O -- green plus bare
white -- O /O -- black
black -- O/ O -- no connect
Dr. Franken Grever
|
| 1987.18 | It ain't smooth anymore... | KERNEL::FLOWERS | Now it's only lukewarm.... | Tue May 28 1991 05:27 | 20 |
|
This looks as good a place as any to bung my question on frets in......
I have a Charvel with *BIG* frets and I have had the guitar from new
(6-7 months) just the other night I discovered why I was having
problems doing slides in the 5th-7th fret range........I've worn the
frets down!! (kind of a buzz knowing that the frets were perfect and
that *I've* worn them down with all my practicing!), anyway the frets
are supposed to be a nice radius shape but in the A blues area I have
worn a flat on them and they have gone kind of square.....with the
result that it is like running you fingertips into a brick wall (slight
exageration there, all I have to do is put more power into the slide
to get it to work but it is taking chunks of skin off......of course
my fingertips are like leather so it doesn't hurt.)
So I guess the questions are, Is this normal? Do I just have to put up
with it? Is there something that can be done? I have heard of fret
polishing is this why you have it done?
J. (Who ain't never worn down frets before)
|
| 1987.19 | You must play hard! | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Certified Marshall-slut | Tue May 28 1991 16:04 | 10 |
| That's fairly normal if you play hard. I know a lot of people though
that have had guitars for years and played a LOT and have never worn
frets out. I guess it's a function of how hard you play (and probably
how much you play in any specific region of the neck).
Anyway, to answer your question, yes, that's why people have the frets
"polished". The idea is to retrue the fret heights and recrown and
surface the frets.
Greg
|
| 1987.20 | Don't fret Jason ! | TRUCKS::LITTEN | | Wed May 29 1991 05:10 | 51 |
| >
> So I guess the questions are, Is this normal? Do I just have to put up
> with it? Is there something that can be done? I have heard of fret
> polishing is this why you have it done?
Jason,
The exact same thing occured on my strat some six years ago.
My advice would be to take it to a professional to have the frets re-cut and
finished (I would recommend Jeff who works for Nevada Music down here in
Portsmouth, but I am sure Bob of Kingfishers in Fleet would also do an OK job.
However, having said that, I did mine myself. There is a good explanation in
GUITARIST some several months ago, and they recommend using a "modified" metal
file. I also have the Build Your Own Guitar book (or similar title by Malcolm
Hiscock and this gives a detailed explanation). However I did it by:
Buying a new oil stone. Mask off the wood between the frets with masking tape
including the nut to protect from "overshoot"damage. Use slow careful skims
down the length of the fretboard. Be sure and keep the stone coated with a
thin film of oil (engine or three-in-one works fine).
You are using the "flatness" of the stone to self centre and get your frets
dressed in an even line. Almost let the weight of the stone do the cutting,
you will be supprised how easily the frets cut down.
Always cut the complete length of the fret board to stop peaks and
troughs. When all the frets have an even flat finish on top (they will all
have been "flatened"), stop and have a beer ! Rather cut off too little and
have to have a second go at it than take them too far and ruin the instrument.
Just enough to get the low used frets at the same finish as those around them.
OK, now phase two. Holding the stone at each side end between thumb and
first/second fingers, GENTLY move side to side. This will ensure that any
small scratches will be in the direction of string bend.
Now, the pro's use a fret finishing file (can be purchased if you wish) to get
them rounded, but I continued using the stone and a combination of wet/dry
(used with light oil and a flat piece of hardwood ) to put a small bevel on
the frets and obtain a final polish.
The result? Well it gave my strat an extra five years grace and the frets felt
as good as the original factory finish.
I would still recommend take it to a professional...just because it worked for
me.......
Dave
|
| 1987.21 | Learn somthing new every day!! | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Greee Veee King | Wed May 29 1991 16:24 | 10 |
|
Wow, Dave, I never thought of using a stone! I've always used this
massive, real fine, shop file.. much more unwieldy, I'll bet, than the
stone.. and for some reason (maybe just because I'm sick) the stone
"feels" more cosmic to me. I'll absolutely try it on my next fret job!
Thanks!
Gree Vee King
|
| 1987.22 | | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Certified Marshall-slut | Wed May 29 1991 17:05 | 5 |
| That author Melvin Hiscock in his book on building electric guitars
recommends use of a stone. I haven't used one myself, but it seems
like it might be a good idea.
Greg
|
| 1987.23 | Loose frets & lack of fretboard stiffness = loss of sustain | GOES11::HOUSE | Did it. Done it. *WHAP* owwww! | Tue Oct 12 1993 17:48 | 67 |
| Thought I'd relate a little experience I had doing a fret job recently.
I'm sure some of you that do your own repairs are already familiar with
this, but it was a big revelation to me.
I'd read some things that discussed how important properly fitting
frets are to the stiffness of the fretboard and how this can affect
tone. It all sounded rather esoteric and theoretical, and I questioned
how much difference it could really make on a real instrument.
Not long ago, I bought a relatively inexpensive guitar (a Squire Strat,
USA made) for a friend of mine. The frets were kind of worn in the
lower fret ranges, and although the frets showed minimal wear in the
upper ranges (from about 10 all the way up), they were taller then the
worn lower frets and some of them were popping up a little bit, causing
some minor buzzing. It looked like the guitar's previous owner had
probably responded by raising the action (either that or that was how
it was set up from the factory).
That's how I noticed the problem, 'cause the first thing I did when I
got the guitar home was to lower the action and play it for awhile,
since I'd noticed that the action was higher then I prefer when I'd
demoed it before the purchase. When I lowered it, the upper strings
fretted out from about the 12th fret up. So I decided to do a quick
fret level and polish on the bad boy.
One thing I also noticed when playing the guitar before was that it
lacked sustain. I thought it might have been a result of the wood it
was made from, or the inexpensive hardware, or the pickups, or
something...you know, it *wasn't* a top shelf instrument.
So anyway, when I ran a file over the frets, I noticed that there were
a LOT of "chirps". The chirp from the file means that there's a loose
fret there. In fact on this guitar, *most* of the frets were loose! I
figure that when it was initially fretted, the rosewood in the
fretboard probably wasn't fully dry (can't use yer best wood on a
budget instrument, y'know?), and as it dried out over the years, it
shrank up a little, leaving the factory frets loose. So... given the
loose frets, and the fact that some of them were also starting to pop
up, I convinced my friend that what he really needed was a fret job
(with some cool large fretwire that I had kickin around 8^)).
So, I whipped the loose old frets out, leveled the fretboard, cleaned
up the fret slots for the new wire and laid a set of new frets in.
These frets were designed for replacements, and had a slightly wider
tang, and I adjusted the slots to fit 'em tight (actually, they were
just about right already, demonstrating the fact that the old wire
wasn't going to sit in there very tightly). I also used a little white
glue on the fret tangs (I like to do that, just a little added
stability). All the standard filing and adjustment and all that...
The interesting part of the story (and the main reason I'm writing this
note) is that once I was all done, when I played the guitar, it's
sustain was improved DRAMATICALLY. Where it had rather poor sustain
before, now it sings. I attribute this to three factors. 1) The
fretboard wasn't all that stiff before because the frets weren't tight.
2) I used larger frets, adding some mass, and 3) the loose frets
weren't moving around in there when the string sits on 'em.
I guess I was a little surprised at the effect this had (or at least
the degree of improvement). I was careful to get the frets and slots
fitted to each other well, so as not to induce a back bow, but I wanted
'em tight. Needless to say, I was very pleased with the result. Hope
I haven't overstated the obvious, but I found this to be a very
interesting experience, since I hadn't run across anything like this
before.
Greg
|
| 1987.24 | wannabe | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Tue Oct 12 1993 21:27 | 19 |
| Interesting note. I'm thinking of refretting my old 1897 Washburn
guitar. I'm in the process of restoring it and the frets are in
very rough shape. The fingerboard also has a couple of badly worn
spots and could use some major leveling.
The thing that discourages me is the cost of the tools I would
probably need. It seems that I would need fret nippers, a fret
bender, fretting hammer, diamond files, fret saw, sanding blocks,
etc. etc.
I guess what I'm asking is what is really necessary to do a good
fret job, and how hard is it to get good results.
Mark
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| 1987.25 | Can Be Done, But Be Careful... | COMET::MESSAGE | My name is Bill & I'm a head case... | Wed Oct 13 1993 09:28 | 27 |
| Re.: .24, first-
Greg, one other sustain-reducer is the fact that the plucked strings
would touch ever-so-slightly the higher frets, thus reducing sustain.
If a string buzzes when plucked, and the cause is a too-high fret,
you know it pretty quickly. However, if the string just kind of goes,
"plonk!" and doesn't sustain or buzz, you can almost bet that the
string is rubbing other frets.
Re. .25 -
If you have a knack for woodworking, and patience, the job of
refretting isn't terribly tough (except for the occasional
fretboard-from-hell, from which you can't pull the frets, even with a
come-along). As Greg hinted, you need to ensure that the fret slots
are clean and that the tang of the new fret material is wide enough to
remain seated in the slot.
However, if you are not fairly good at woodworking, you may think twice
about attempting to refret an older instrument; you can inadvertantly
take some nasty chunks out of a dried fretboard, and then you's got
trouble....
Voice o' experience; I've been asked to fix fretboards that someone had
damaged during a DYI refret.
Bill Message
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| 1987.26 | | GOES11::HOUSE | Did it. Done it. *WHAP* owwww! | Wed Oct 13 1993 17:18 | 44 |
| re: Mark
I don't think I'd attempt an instrument that old, because if you hose
it up then it's suddenly worth nothing, where before it could have been
reasonably valuable. The old instruments used different styles of
frets (not the modern tang style) too, so check and make sure what you
have before you start as you could be in for a real nightmare.
As far as specialty tools go, there really aren't all *that* many that
are required. Most of it's just standard woodworking type tools. For
instance, a specialty tool for hammering in frets, or cutting the ends
off them, isn't required. I use a normal ball-peen hammer to knock my
frets in, with a piece of oak to keep it from scarring up the frets.
The nippers I use are standard Channellock end nippers, which I ground
the face down, total cost, about $10 (but I already had the grinder).
The specialty tools absolutely required are a fret file to do the
recrowning after you level them, and a big file (or whetstone, or
whatever) that's absolutely flat, to do the fret leveling. The fret
files are kind of expensive, $30-$50, but I don't see a way to do a
decent fret job without 'em.
After you replace the frets, you *may* find you need to make a new nut
(if the slots were low to start with and you use larger frets, or if it
had other problems), and you kind of need special files to cut the nut
slots with rounded bottoms. You can do 'em without, but the guitar
won't stay in tune as well due to friction. Those little files cost
about $8 each and you'll need probably 3 different ones (you can create
larger slots by rolling the file in the slot).
I also have a shorter flat file for doing spot work. The one I have is
a specialty one, with a piece of wood glued on one side for a handle,
but you don't have to have the specialty tool (or you can buy a less
expensive file and do the epoxy work yourself).
Speaking of specialty tools, I tried a new one when I did this fret job
that I liked. It's an 8" long hardwood block with the radius cut into
one side of it (in this case a 12" radius) that you use for fretboard
and fret leveling). You use sandpaper on it that's got sticky stuff on
one side to hold it on there. Worked great, I was real pleased with
the work it did. Got me a nice flat, even, radius on the fretboard to
start with and a good start on the frets.
Greg
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| 1987.27 | Another thing to spend money on !!! | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Wed Oct 13 1993 21:14 | 9 |
| Thanks Greg. I think I'll wait and try my hand at fretwork on another
instrument, something easily replaced.
So it sounds like I could do my first fret job for about $50 plus the
cost of fretwire. If I'm successful I could always add more tools
later on. What do you think of the Stewart MacDonald Fret Jig, Overkill?
Mark
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| 1987.28 | | GOES11::HOUSE | Did it. Done it. *WHAP* owwww! | Thu Oct 14 1993 15:10 | 34 |
| > Thanks Greg. I think I'll wait and try my hand at fretwork on another
> instrument, something easily replaced.
A good plan, Mark. I've done a few of 'em and pretty much trust myself
to do a good job on something, but I wouldn't attempt a vintage
instrument, even though I have a good set of tools and stuff.
> So it sounds like I could do my first fret job for about $50 plus the
> cost of fretwire. If I'm successful I could always add more tools
> later on.
Fretwire's the cheap part. You'll use about $5-$6 worth of fretwire on
an average electric (about 6 feet to include a little extra), maybe a
little less on an acoustic.
Actually, I forgot about something that's pretty much manditory, a good
precision straightedge. I got one that'll span the entire fretboard,
precision steel and it cost me over $30.
To do a good fret job and make a new nut, I figure the cost of the
required tools would be around $100-$125. It's not the cheapest hobby
you could have. I think I probably have around $300 worth of tools
that I've acquired over the years for guitar repair, and I'm nowhere
near fully equipped.
> What do you think of the Stewart MacDonald Fret Jig, Overkill?
You mean the big workbench thing? Sounds nice, but people have been
doing successful fret jobs for years without having anything like
that... I think I'd have to be doing quite a bit of real work to
justify a purchase like that.
Greg
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| 1987.29 | | STAR::KMCDONOUGH | SET KIDS/NOSICK | Fri Feb 14 1997 08:01 | 14 |
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I tripped over this note while looking for some fret info.
If I ever had to show someone why Notes was one of the best parts
about working here, I'd show 'em this note.
Extremely informative and fun, and it's still here to be read years
later.
Kevin
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