Conference napalm::guitar

    I have a particluar opinion...
    
    For one, I *hate* ported cabinets!  The bass response is just nowhere!
    I mean, it's not tight and well defined...it's more of a 'fluffy'
    sound.  Seeing that you'd be driving it with an M3, which itself is
    inherently bassy, I think it could possibly be one bogus combination!
    Also, the music man stock speakers are crappy...not a lot of high end.
    If, indeed, it had JBLs, that may work out ok.
    
    If you plan to check it out, bring your head along and PLAY thru it!

I don't think a ported cab is applicable for a guitar amp myself.

Can't say infact, that I've really ever seen one..  Either that's
a rare feature, or maybe it was used, and the previous owner did that.

For some P/A purposes, a ported cab works well.  Perhaps, even for bass
given a bi-amp rig.

But for regular guitar, you'd do best with either a closed back, no port,
or if you have to settle for it, an open back.

I've got an open back 2-12 100 watt 2 chanell Yamaha, and I closed the
back up on it once.  didn't do much, the cab just wasn't designed
for closed applications.  I used to have a 4x12 closed back ampeg cab
with a V4 head..  I liked that.  Had some bottom end with A-uthority, but
alas, twas a trifle too big for what I was looking for..

    
    Kitty Hawk is low end amp????

    Kitty Hawk is not a "low end" amp as far as it was marketed and it's
    relative quality, however they do have an incredible amount of bass
    response.  When I use the M3's preamp, I set the bass control on it on
    about "1" (runs from 0-10).  If it's set above "3" it's overwhelming.
    
    My favorite distortion tone from that amp is with the following
    settings:
    
    Treble   Mid   Bass  Lead gain  Rhythm gain  Lead master  Master Presence
      7       8      1       10          6           8          >3      6.5
    
    Great tone!  (BTW, I put master over 3 because that's where my amp
    seems to start "breathing".  It doesn't sound right below that)  Then
    boost the mids with a stomp EQ for a more of a bite.
    
    Most of that high frequency range stuff you hear from my rig is from
    the MP-1 which is mega-bright.
    
    Back to the topic at hand.  I've seen a Mitchell 2x12 guitar cabinet
    that was ported.  I never heard how it sounded so couldn't comment. 
    I've been very happy with the sealed unported guitar cabinets I've
    used (Marshalls & Ampegs).
    
    Greg
                                                        

    
    Bass at 1, treble at 7 and mids at 8?  No wonder I was wonderin'!
    
    J.  Who_always_thought_Kitties_had_more_high_end

      From what you've stated, it sounds like you have a 2-12" bass cabinet
    that Music Man sold in the late 70's. I may be wrong, but that's my guess 
    cause I don't have the old brochure with me right now. I knew a bassist in 
    NY that used that cabinet for bass only and it sounded nice. Never heard 
    it with a guitar however. 
      It's all a matter of tone/taste ya know? Do as Buck suggested, cause
    I'd recommend the same...  try your head through the bottom and judge
    it for yourself. If it's been hacked up to have that port, then it may
    be able to go back to its original form. If you do (in fact) have the
    "bass cabinet" version, then try it out. Either you'll like it, or you
    won't.
    
    	My 2�!
    
    		Rock on,
    			Fred

    I remember the Music Man catalog from circa 1980 bucause I was looking
    for a new amp at the time.
    
    The cabs offered by Music Man were indeed 4x12 (closed back) for guitar
    or bass, and a ported 2x12 (was the size of a 4x12, fwiw) for guitar or
    bass.
    
    B.

    see note 1799 which is a generic "guitar speaker cab" note. This will 
    give you some ideas as to what brands and models to check out.
    
    Some of my own suggestions for guitar cabs:
    
    	Mesa Boogie makes 1x12, 2x12, and 4x12 guitar cabinets. They offer
    Celestion, EV, and their own speakers as options. Prices are pretty 
    reasonable, and they are built like a truck. Mesa offers open back,
    half-open back, and closed-back "Thiele ported" cabs. You can demo Mesa 
    Cabs in most Daddy's Junky Music stores. They are also available direct
    from Mesa Boogie.
    
    	Peavey makes all kinds of guitar cabinets. Someone mentioned in a
    previous note that they make a cab with 4 30w Celestians which sells for
    about the same as you'd pay for the speakers alone. They just came out
    with a couple of speaker cabs that can be rack-mounted (FWIW). These are
    available in 1x12, 1x15, (and possibly 2x10) configurations.
    
    	Carvin offers lot's of differant cabinets for guitar. Call them and
    ask them to send you their catalog. From there, you can order direct. 
    
	Laney is another one to check out.
    
	Another thing to consider is buying 2  1x12 cabs in stead of 1
    2x12 cab. The advantage is that the cabs are smaller, easier to carry
    and fit into your car. Having two cabs allows you to run one or both
    in mono, or run the pair in stereo. It allows you more flexibility.
    For really small clubs you can leave one home and just carry one.
    Mesa Boogie makes the best selection of 1x12 cabs (IMHO). The prices
    are quite reasonable. I saw one at Daddys on sale for $175 with a
    half-open back and 1 12" Mesa Boogie Black Shadow speaker. The system
    I am thinking of putting together would include 4 of these cabinets
    with one of their tube power amps.
     
    Mark

    Tacking onto the Mark Jacques reply, I'd vote for two single 12in.
    enclosures.  The flexibility/modularity is attractive.  You can
    tote just one for 'small' situations, like rehearal or maybe wedding
    gigs, bring both for more yelling power, use 'em in a stereo mode
    and split the cabinets across stage, turn one into a temporary monitor
    when the real monitor gets a quart of beer in it.  Finally, you
    can build them one at a time, which helps cash flow.
    
    I've built dozens of Thiele-aligned enclosures, which are ported and,
    IMO, sound fine.  My choice in tone favors 'clean', so perhaps folks
    who are 'crunchier' might have a valid point about ported cabinets
    sounding less-than-great.
    
    Regards,
    Johnny Jupiter

Ok, I'm curious.  I love the sound of my 4x12 boogie cabinet, but I'll be 
the first to admit that I don't love carrying it around.  The idea of a 
modular cabinet sounds neat; grow it to fit the application.  But, before I run
off and buy 4 boogie (or other) 1x12 cabinets, I'm wondering what the difference
in sound would be.  Has anyone compared a "normal" 4x12 cabinet and 4 1x12
cabinets??

steve

    
    OK, I'm curious, too.  Any ADA 2X12 owners out there?  How about 
    spillin' yer guts as to love or hate stories?
    
    J.

    
    I'm not sure how the Thiele ported 1x12 sounds for electric guitar. The 
    open back cabs are really half-open back. These are basically the same 
    type of enclosure that are included in all their combos. If you like the 
    sound of a Boogie 1x12 combo, you'll like the sound of the 1x12 half-back.
    
    Mesa suggests (for an extremely versatile system) that you use one 1x12 
    open back and one 1x12 Thiele cab for each side of a stereo system. The 
    open back provides a big open sound, and the Thiele cab provides a tight 
    bass response. They also suggest you order the open back cab with a
    Celestian and the Thiele cab with an EV. I'd like to hear a system like 
    this, but most dealers simply don't have all the components in stock at 
    one time to demo them together.
    
    Since I bought my Mesa Studio preamp, I have been lusting after more 
    Boogie gear. I would love to buy a couple of their SUS-4 racks, a tube 
    power amp (either the 50/50 or 295) and 4 1x12 enclosures. Of course, 
    I'm looking at >$2500 in additional expense. The nice thing is that I can 
    buy one thing at a time and spread the expense out over time.  I figure a 
    system with the 295 amp and 4 1x12's  is equivalent to using two 100 watt 
    Twin reverbs, plus you get the Boogie tone, and the convenience of rack-
    mounting. The first thing on my list is the Sus4 racks. I'm planning on 
    buying 2 12-space Sus4 racks in the near future.
    
    	Mark

    One thing that comes to my mind about the modular setup being discussed
    here (4 1x12s as opposed to 1 4x12) is that while each 1x12 will be
    lighter and easier to carry, you'll have to make more trips in and out. 
    Yeah, carrying one heavy 4x12 is not especially pleasant, but I think
    it's more tiring to make 4 trips with the 1x12s.  (not to mention the
    worry of having part of your equipment stolen while you're carting
    things back and forth!)
    
    If you're going to use all four speakers very often, it's probably
    going to be more convenient to have a single 4x12 cabinet.
    
    Maybe a better compromise would be to have a pair of 2x12's if weight
    is an issue.  Coop seems happy with the sound of his homebrew 2x12s
    (made by hacking a 4x12 in half and putting in the additional sides).
    
    I had the same problem and, out of courtesy to my back, I bought a pair
    of 4x10s which are relatively lightweight.  I love the way they sound
    and they only weigh 55lbs each!  (FWIW, they are Marshall cabs)
    
    Greg

    
    RE: J.
    
        I own two ADA slant 2-12's and I LOVE EM!!! I love the sound I get,
    crunchy yet meaty. They weigh 48 lbs which makes it easy to carry one
    in each hand. You can get these cabs with Celestions or with ADA
    speakers. I have Cells. I've never heard how the ADA speakers sound.
    
       Also, I used to roadie for a friends band and one guitarist had two
    ADA's the other one a Carvin 4-12. So all us roadies would try and
    "accidently" end up carrying the ADA's and then laugh at who had to
    carry the Carvin. Or worse: "THE BASS CAB..." (add extreme reverb)
    
    							
    							R.C.
    

      I own quite a variety of cabinets including 4X12's and 1X12's.
    I rarely use the 4X12's. They are a major pain to cart around and
    set up and I don't really see any benefit to my sound out front.
    Looks wicked cool though, but is it worth it? Maybe for moving a
    lot of air, but that's what the front end is for. 
      So I have a Kitty Hawk stack that consists of two 4X12's, one
    slant, one straight just like a Marshall stack. Usually this is
    powered by the M1 100 watt head. I can't even get this in the back
    of my Taurus wagon! Luckily my wife has a Chevy Blazer!
      I primarily use my Kitty Hawk 1X12 with a celestion 100 watter.
    My rack was a Kitty Hawk 1X12 speaker cab that I converted to a
    rack by removing the speaker and mounting board and installing rails.
    So this way the whole package looks coordinated. On top of that
    I have a custom made case that will fit either my rack system and
    a foot controller or one of my KH combo amps. I'm considering putting
    my M3 chassis into the spare KH head enclosure that I have and turning
    the KH combo enclosure into another 1X12. That would still leave
    me with my M1 exotic wood combo and my M5 practice combo.
      So put me down for preferring the portability of a 1X12. Another
    factor in this is that I use a Red Box for my line to the mixer
    and that does a good job of emulating a 4X12 sound.
    
    							-BooM-

    BAH!
    
    Call me old fashioned, but I still love the sound of a STACK! Yeah,
    I've played thru 1x12's for a while, and 2x12's after that, but I need
    at least a 4x12 for me.  And two 4x12s is it as far as I'm concerned!
    
    Buck, who'll gladly cart it around just for the sound!

    I've been looking into this myself lately.  A pair of Mesa's 1x12s is 
    only $350.  
    
    If you ever get a chance to hear any Phil Keaggy (yeah him again) stuff, 
    he uses a pair of the Thiele 1x12s from Mesa with his rack.  Sounds fine 
    to me.
    
    Mike

    
    
    
    	I've been really attracted to the sound that I get through a 4x10
    cabs.. it seems to sound more roomy and well rounded than my other 1x12
    or 2x12... is that just because there's mreo speakers??

     
    
        
    	I've been bouncing back and forth between the idea of a 2x12
    	vrs. a 4x10 cabs. (closed back).  Anyone have preferences/pros/cons 
    	between the two ??  Here again I'm staying away from the 4x12 option
    	because of the hassels of moving it. Keep in mind I'll be powering
    	it with a KH M-3.
    
 Ray   	

    Well, fellow noter Greg House plays his Kitty M3 thru (2) Marshall
    4x10 cabs, and I think it's a mint sounding combo!

    
     I've heard an M-3 head through a Marshall 4-10 cab and IMHO it
    sounds great!  The definitive mid-range punch machine!
    
    
    Kevin
 
    
    

    
    Yup.  Greg's stack does sound good
    
    When he's not feeding back... 
    

    re: .-1 
    
    Outta my face, I was doing Ted Nugent tricks! 
    
    re: 4x10s .vs. 2x12s
    
    I can't really comment on this well because I've only used 4x12s and
    4x10s, but I can say that the combination of the Kitty Hawk M3 and the
    Marshall 4x10s is one that I *really* like!  Like Kevin says, it's
    really a killer midrange sound.  
    
    I've also used the M3 with an Ampeg 4x12 which sounds very good as
    well.  It's a full sound with a little more bottom end, a lot less
    midrange and a slight bit less treble then the 4x10s (to my perception
    from doing a quick A/B comparision once long ago).  Bear in mind that I
    almost always use the two 4x10s together (seems fuller) and I only had
    (have) one 4x12.
    
    My *opinion* is that a 2x12 might give you an easier to carry package,
    with maybe more bottom end then a 4x10, but you may find the sound
    won't be quite as thick as you want it.  Maybe get 2 2x12s so any one
    piece is  easier to carry, and then use them both together to get more
    air moving.  This is the approach I take with the 4x10s.
    
    Greg

    Justmy opinion, but the M3's would be AWEFULLY bassy with
    4x12's....Go with the 4x10's.
    
    Cheap alternative:
    
    Those MArshall Microstack speakers...  I've got four of them
    and they wail !
    
    jc

    I liked my tone with 4x12's and the M3, but I was going for a thicker,
    bluesy type tone.  I too, think 4x10's would be the best of both
    worlds.
    
    Scary ... who's gonna build a can with 10 6x9" triaxials .... 8^)