Conference napalm::guitar

    
    OK, sell those SGEs, man, they're dinsoaurs....
    
    DigiTech has announced the GSP21, with 21 digital effects, *10* at a
    time.
    
    Rumors that the effects include power windows, photon torpedoes and a
    digital rubik's cube are unconfirmed  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    Seriously, it's being advertised now, looking at DigiTech's track
    record, don't expect them in the stores for a while.  Price not given.
    
    							Brian

    I was reading a blurb in this in GP last night.  It also comes with
    it's own foot controller (which actually looks pretty nice).  I'm
    getting sick of the ADA foot controller.  The switches are too small
    and too close together.  I end up stomping and hitting two at a time if
    I'm not real careful.
    
    The effect list looked pretty usable.  I wonder if they're still stuck
    on algorithms (chains) rather then letting you decide what you want.
    
    Another thing I was wondering is whether it will function as a preamp. 
    The GSP-5 will, but it explicitly says that on the unit.
    
    Greg

    Boom,
    
    Man, you are just too cool for words!  ;^)
    
    Buck, who wants to model his equipment after Boom's
    
    PS - Seriously, I'll check out the GSP-21

    From the catalogs around my office, (of course this is all brochure 
    data, not from an actual user :-)):
    
    - 10 effects at a time
    - 21 different effect configurations
    - Foot controller included, accesses all programs, patches, params from
      12 pedals on the controller
    - 128 memory slots
    - 64 factory presets, 64 user programmed
    - 20 bit VLSI CPU
    - 20Hz to 18KHz bandwidth
    - Effects: stereo pitch detune; compression; metal, tube, and overdrive
      distortion; stereo, ping-pong, multi-tap delay; slap back; digital
      mixer; chorus; lg/sm room, gated, reverse, ultimate reverb; flanging;
      comb filter; noise gate; limiter; speaker simulator; graphic and 
      parametric EQ; stereo imaging; 
    - S/N ratio 90db
    - LCD display with program names and numbers
    - MIDI
    - size: 1.75"H x 19"W x 8.5"D
    - weight: 5.5lbs.
    - list price $799.95
    
    Prices:
    - Musician's Friend       $689.88
    - Sam Ash                 $639.95
    - American Musical Supply $639.00

      Thanks for typing in all the info Mike. I have the owners manual
    right here and was going to do it, but you did such a good job!
    One of the things I had to get used to was the  different algorithms
    for which effects can be activated. At first I thought this was
    more of a bother than the SGE's layout, but after getting a feel
    for it, I think it's just as good. The SGE had its limitations with
    what effect could be turned on simultaneously, sometimes to the
    point of frustration! The MIDI implementation is just as good as
    the SGE, I haven't tried the control of parameters by a CC pedal
    yet, but it seems straightforward. The speaker simulator hasn't
    been checked out yet. I'll do that tonight. I'm also gonna set it
    up in stereo, watch out!
      My price? I guess I did pretty good! $625 from my local store
    that didn't want to give up their first GSP-21 to start with.
    
    						-BooM-

    I know you can use it as a backup preamp, but is there any other
    benefit to using the GSP21 distortions with the Kitty Hawk preamp's
    distortions?
    
    What I want to know is when will LPMG carry these? ;-)
    
    Mike

    Stereo RULES !  Playing live and sounding like your in a studio is
    where it's  at IMHO.  Still gotta convert Greg though...
    
    jc

      More info you want! Me can do! Without typing in the whole 48
    page manual, here's some info from effects and their parameters.
    
    Reverb: 
      Rev1 (small room) -short decay 
      Rev2 (large room) -larger room, more diffusion, longer decay
      Gated Reverb - decays for a given length of time then cuts
  		off abruptly when signal falls below a threshold
      Reverse Reverb - decay is heard after the initial, then builds
      		up and cuts off.
      Ultimate Reverb - has 11 parameters that give you the ability
      		to simulate any reverberant space.
        reverb parameters:
       		Decay time, pre-delay time, reverb level, 
    		early reflection diffusion, early reflection delay,
           	early reflection level, subsequent reverb diffusion,
    		subsequent reverb delay, subsequent reverb delay, 
    		envelopement, damping, accent envelope, accent amplitude,
    		normalized reflectivity, normalized room volume.
     
   
    Delay:
       Ranges:    0 - 40 msec. in 1 msec steps
    	        45 - 400 msec. in 5 msec steps
 	       410 - 750 msec. in 10 msec steps

       Delay level
       Feedback
       multi-tap delay time
       multi-tap feedback delay
    
     Delay Modulation (Chorus/Flange):
       speed 
       depth
       chorus delay
       chorus level
       LFO waveform (sawtooth/sinewave/logarithmic)
       flange feedback
       flange feedback phase
       flange delay time
       flange level
    
    Equalization:

       Seven Band graphic with 12 db cut/boost in 1 db increment
       ( I haven't found any parametric EQ in the manual or in the unit)
    
    Compression:
    
       Compression amount
    
    Distortion:
    
       types: Rock tube, metal tube, overdrive, and heavy sustain
       parameters: balls and level
    
    Enhancer: enhancer amount
    
    Noise gate: gate threshold
    
      That's it. The speaker simulator and MIDI stuff all comes under
    the utility menu. The back of the unit also has a headphone jack!
   ll try that tonight to see if this is the ultimate Rockman! Last
    night I just programmed my presets so I can play out with it.
    
    						-BooM-

    A few questions on this:
    
    1) Is it rack-mounted? If so, how many spaces?
    
    2) What kind power supply, built in or wall bug?
    
    3) How many inputs? Can you plug 2 or more guitars into it?
    
    - Ram

      Answers:
    
    1) single space rack mount
    
    2) removable A.C. line cord, built in power supply
    
    3) one mono input, stereo outputs, and a headphone output.
    
       The foot controller is the gnads. One cable to it (like my old
    Roland GP-8/FC-100). It also has a input for the studio remote pad
    like the one on the DSP-256, but the remote doesn't come with it
    since the foot controller does.

    							-BooM-

    Sounds real nice. Too bad they don't provide for multiple inputs. I use
    both electric and acoustic, and I'd like to be able to keep both hooked
    up without having to resort to some external mixing device.
    
    - Ram

      I don't think many of the other competing multieffects allow multiple
    inputs, much less switchable. My Kitty Hawk Patch Bayette 1 can
    be set up to switch inputs under MIDI control, but there I go KHing
    again. A better way to do it would be to have either a A/B box (a
    number of companies make these) and/or a small line mixer that would
    also compensate for the difference in output of a hot electric
    over an acoustic guitar. The other advantages of going this route
    is it makes this function independant of whatever amp/effect set
    up you are using. 
      Sorry, but I guess that's what you'd have to resort to, unless
    you send ART or Digitech your idea and they think it's marketable.
    
    							-BooM-

    I have a KH A/B(/C/D) box from hell.  One in, 4 out.  It roooolz!

    I guess A/B would be the cheapest way to go, no?  How much do those
    input mixers go for that Boom mentioned?
    
    Mike

    I have a perfect conection splitter, 1 in 2 out, I picked it up used
    for 30$. Also have a Micro-Mixer 1 in 4 out with 4 input and 1 output
    pot, I got this at Mr. C's for 80$ new. Both use a 9V battery, but
    could use the external power source. The splitter is alot quieter.

    make that  Micro-mixer with 4 in 1 out. Must be morning

    I called around some and found out the following:
    
    DoD makes an A/B footswitch that goes for about $20-$25. It's a simple
    toggle, apparently with leds to indicate which one is on.
    
    Morley and ProCo both have "A/B Y" switches that go for about $60.
    These have two buttons. They can be set up so that pressing one button
    turns A on and B off, and pressing the other button turns B on and A
    off. They can also be setup so that pressing one button turns both A
    and B on (Y), and pressing the other button turns both off. Or
    something like that.
    
    The A/B Y switches sound nice, but I'll probably go with the DoD for
    now, because it's adequate for my purposes (and I'm cheap).
    
    - Ram

     GSP-21 the ultimate rockman! The speaker simulator effects the
    headphone  out jack as well as the main outs, it's great for dialing
    up your favorite speaker sound. My wife loves it when I play through
    headphones.
     What else do I like? The footswitch has a lot of versatility. You
    can punch effects in and out of a patch right from the footswitch
    and quickly edit. For example, because I'm using my KH Testarossa
    preamp for all my overdrive distortion all I have to do is call
    up a factory patch, punch out the distortion on the GSP, punch in
    the right channel on the KH patch bayette controlling the TR, and
    hit store on the GSP. A little tweaking of the other parameters
    and it rocks! To use it without the KH all I have to do is use the
    GSP-21's distortion for leads and crunch. The distortion on the
    GSP is real good, not quite a match for my KH preamps, but good
    enough to use in a pinch. 
      The digital mixer built into some of the more complex algorithms
    is a welcome addition, comes in real handy. More to come---
    
    							---Boom

    
    Drooooooooool.

      Having previously owned a Roland GP-8 and a ART SGE, I would have
    to say that the GSP-21's factory patches are the best of the lot.
    On both previous units I did a lot of my working "bank" from scratch.
    With the GSP-21 I find myself taking a factory patch, tweaking it
    slightly (usually for working with the preamp).
      You wanna hear what the GSP-21 is capable of, I suggest playing
    through a set of headphones and tweaking the speaker simulator 
    to taste. Then you can really appreciate this incredible effects
    unit. 
      I'll know more this weekend when the GSP gets the working test.
    Up until now it's been basement duty.
    
    						-BooM-

    What do you think about it's distortions?  Would you be happy with it
    as a standalone preamp (i.e., no Kittys)?
    
    Mike

      YES 
    
      But it is slightly better with the KH preamp than without. The
    Bypass switch and patching functions right on the foot controller
    allow easy A/B comparisons. I could get by on a job if my preamp
    died with no problem. That's another reason to program the extra
    banks specifically for this situation and maybe another for strictly
    the best sound through headphones!
    
    							-BooM-

      I must be the only one that jumped on this bandwagon. Everyone
    gun-shy after the KH scenario? Anyway - I'm still a happy camper
    with my GSP-21. My new playing "environment" allow me to really
    open up and get more action out of my gear. It's great to be able
    to re-tweak all your parameters to adjust for a change in playing
    style and still be able to keep the old ones. And you never saw
    any need for all those patch locations, huh?
      Word from the music store where I bought mine was that I'm the
    only one to get it at the price I did. $625 from a local store!
    That beats all the mail order prices I've seen. I think Digitech
    is charging the dealer a somewhat higher price for these since
    the've divided their multieffects product line into two segments.
    The professional line (GSP-21, IPS-33B,DSP-256) and their performer
    series (GSP-5, DSP-128 plus, MM-4). Hmmmmm-
    
    							-BooM-

    After dumping my rack from hell in favor of the 12wt Marshall heads
    (from hell), I got *so* used to NOT having any fx on my sound, that
    now it really irks me to hear an affected guitar tone!  I much prefer
    it if the sound dude sticks stuff on it out front, where I don't have
    to listen to it!
    
    Buck, frmo one extreme to another

>      I must be the only one that jumped on this bandwagon. Everyone
>    gun-shy after the KH scenario? 
    
    I donno about that, I'm still pretty happy with the KH.  It's the SGE
    that really soured me on multi-effects units.  
    
    Don't get me wrong, I think that it's a fine unit and sounds great, but
    it doesn't do what *I* need.  It's clearly designed to sit in front of
    an amp and do pretty much everything.  I don't want to use it like
    that, I want it to sit in the efx loop and do great chorus, EQ, delay,
    and reverb stuff.  But if you put it there stuff like the compression,
    distortion and others are real close to being unusable.  
    
    The only effects I'm currently using much are EQ, chorus, and reverb
    (pretty sparingly on the last two).  There are some effects you want
    before the preamp and some after and I don't believe that one
    multi-effects unit can do everything because of this (unless they had
    different outputs that you could route the effects to to seperate the
    signal).
    
    When I bought the SGE, I wanted a unit that does exactly what it does,
    sit in front of an amp that you don't use the features of, but now my
    setup has changed enough that that design is not the best for my
    purposes.  I may end up selling the SGE and opting for something a
    little simpler, like a couple of EQs that I can split into before
    preamp and effects loop and some sort of unit that will do some nice
    chorus, delay, and reverb effects.
    
    Greg

    RE: SGE
    
    I wonder if all of ART's processors behave this way.  The DRX looks
    appealing, but I guess I'd have to see how it works in the effects
    loop of my KH.
    
    Mike

    re: Mike
    
    I don't have any problems with the 'behavior' of the unit, it works
    just fine, in the effects loop or before the preamp.  The problem I
    have is that some of the effects it offers don't work in the most
    optimal way when placed after a preamp.  (ie, compression after a
    preamp is not very effective)
    
    I guess the bottom line is that it's got more features then I can use
    right now and it kind of frustrates me to think that there's a bunch of
    stuff there that I might want and can't use.  
    
    I want to have the SGE placed after the preamp (of in the effects loop)
    in my setup so that the reverb and delay based effects will have the
    most effect on the sound and that doesn't allow me to use effects like
    compression and distortion.  This is kind of unfortunate, since I
    really like the flexability of the distortions the SGE offers.
    
    Don't get me wrong, the SGE is a wonderful unit, for what it was
    designed for; sitting in front of an amp set up for a clean tone and
    not using features of the amp.  However I have nice goodies like Mp-1s,
    Kitty Hawks, and GKs that have features I want to use and the design of
    the SGE makes it difficult to use all of *it's* features, while still
    using some of the features of the amps/preamps I want to use with it.
    
    I don't see how a box that tries to do everything can do everything it
    could do when used with other units unless it's got seperate outputs
    (or loops) for effects that you want to use before the preamp and
    after.  It's clear that ART knew about this issue because some of the
    effects allow you to select whether they are before or after the
    distortion in the effects circuit.  I wish they'd allowed seperate
    outputs from the unit so I could use my own preamp for that.
    
    I'd tend to think that a mono unit that doesn't have stuff like
    compression, limiting, noise gates and such would be better for your
    effects loop then the DRX, especially if it had a better EQ.  That
    little three band thing isn't as flexable as I might like.  It'd
    probably save you money too.
                                
    Greg

    >Don't get me wrong, the SGE is a wonderful unit, for what it was
>    designed for; sitting in front of an amp set up for a clean tone and
>    not using features of the amp.  However I have nice goodies like Mp-1s,
    
    Sounds to me like the ART stuff is geared more toward the recording
    studio environment.  I notice they advertise heavily in magazines like
    "db", which is for studio/sound engineers.
    
    Mike

    
    Greg, I'm kinda where you are at.  If it wasn't for the clean reverb
    of my 128+, I'd probably go back to a couple of stomp boxes.  I seem
    to only use chorus, light delay and reverb.  Last night I played out 
    with some friends (w/o my 128+) and noticed how simple and enjoyable it
    was not having to concentrate on what programs to use when.  This 
    probably has a lot to do with how unmotivated I am to really explore
    the capabilities of my 128+.  I haven't given it up completely yet
    tho'...
    
    -pat

    
    Well, I still use my 128+ all the time.  But usually, only 1 setting,
    and use another for 1/2 solo on one song.  I still wouldn't give it
    up completely, tho.
    
    J.

    PMI of New Jersey has this for $599 now.
    
    Mike

      Hey - I found a flaw with this unit. Not really a flaw , but
    one of those idiocincracies (sic).  I caught it when using the
    crunch rhythm mode of my KH preamp. I hit the bypass on the GSP-21
    and the sound came alive! The old signal squish job that I always
    used to bitch about with my SGE.  Oh no! I need a Bradshaw rack
    now!
      Well not really. I found the major contributor to the signal
    degradation. The enhancer in the GSP-21 that should add clarity
    and "sparkle" to the highs also hoses the low end. When you want
    that ballsy crunch you gotta kill the enhancer. As a matter of fact
    I did a revamping of a lot of patches with the enhancer in it
    and decided they were better without it. The only exception it
    the clean/chorus type of patches. The enhancer is fine on those.
      Another quirk: the algorithm that includes  the ultimate reverb
    (there's only one) has a lot of inherent gain that I'm trying to
    cut back on. I had that patch tied in with my lead 1 mode of the
    Testarossa and it was just too much. In a lot of ways I agree with
    Buck, gain is fine sometimes, but I don't like a setting that has
    so much gain it loses definition. 
      End result:  mucho better sound
    
    							-B()()M-

      
    
      Oh yeah - Here we go again! Sure now that you think you've
    bought the cat's a$$ effects unit, they upgrade it. I should know
    better, since I work at DEC. Now I've gotta see what they've done
    to improve on the GSP-21 because now it's a GSP-21 Pro.
      One thing the new ad touts is all new presets from Ted Nugent,
    Tommy Shaw, Steve Lukather, and a few others (Is Reb the endorsement
    slut in there?). I'd have to see if there's more to it than new
    presets. If there is more to it, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg,
    then I guess I'll have to buy the PROM. I know I'm at version 1.0 and
    that should've told me something!
    
    						-B()()M-

    Yeah, I saw that too.  Kind of a pain.  Same thing ART did to us with
    the SGE.  At least they waited a little longer before they came out
    with the Mach II.  The GSP-21's only been out a few months!  I can't
    believe they obsolete their own products like that.  
    
    Personally it makes me angry when a company does this to me.  When they
    come out with a new upgraded model like that it devalues the older
    model significatly!  Why can't they keep a single product line for more
    then a few months?
    
    Greg

    DEC does it too ;-)

    It's not so bad though when you only have to pay shipping....
    Like the three dollar ADA upgrade.  I can handle that !!
    
    jc

    -1
    
    Gawd, Boom, you'd then have TWO M-word pieces o gear...think you could
    deal??
    
    ;^)
    
    PS - See ya Sunday at Coney??

    RE: GSP-21 Pro
    
    What are the param settings on the Larry Carlton preset?

    Yo, Boom (or anyone else who's got a GSP-xx):
    
    How's the unit doing?  Do you still use it out live?  I think I've had
    it with millions of little cables and boxes and 9volts; I played
    through a GSP21 the other night and it sounded pretty cool.  
    
    So what's the user report after 30,000 notes?
    
    Regards,
    John

I think if you check the rocktron note you'll find boom took the gsp out
in favor of the intellifex, which has superior dynamic range (102db?)

dbii

    
        If you want a cool unit with a lot of bell and whistles (and LEDs)
    this is a great unit. If you are using effects in a effects loop
    or between a preamp and power amp, then I would nix this unit if favor
    of a decent digital effects processor (high end = TC 2290, Intellifex/
    low end = Digitech DSP-256XL, Quadraverb, ART Multiverb Alpha) if you
    are getting all the EQ and distortion you want out of your preamp (like
    me!) I haven't found ANY multieffects (with up to a zillion effects at
    once) that work well in this application. 
        I sold the GSP-21 to someone who is probably impressed with all it's
    features and then is probably gonna bum out when they are set up next 
    to a tube stack and find out it isn't quite cutting it! No matter what 
    area I used the GSP-21 in  (M1 effects loop, KH rack for quite
    sometime, and lastly in the REXX effects loop) it squished the signal
    such that I could never bring it back AND MDID program changes were
    accompanied with a "POP" due to time differences in switching and level
    mismatches between units. My Rocktron Intellifex does neither of these
    two nasties.
        I probably would've kept all this info to myself if I'd sold it to
    a fellow noter, but I didn't. Then again, the GSP-21 might work well in 
    some applications. I've recorded right into the multitrack with it and
    that came out OK, but I can do that with my other gear as well.
        I'll admit I was enthusiastic about the GSP21 when it first came
    out, but new things that do a better job stay and the old ones go.
        At least I DO sell my old gear to make room for the new!
    
    						-B()()M-
    

	Boom, please don't take this the wrong way, but why did you 
	feel like you needed to buy the unit in the first place?  I
	mean, what did you think was missing in your tone or efx?  I
	realize that I am missing some sounds (like a HM o/d) but have
	chosen to get out of the efx shopping since I dumped my 128+
	and just play.  

	just curious.
	-pat

          
          I had money to burn? Well, sorta like that. I had figured that 
    the GSP-21 would make up for all the shortcomings of the SGE. It was
    pretty much that I knew I could sell the SGE off cheap (and I did, 
    FWIW) so all I figured I needed was about $325 to get the GSP-21 and
    it came with it's neato foot controller. Well the GSP-21 did do a
    better job in the rack as far as not squishing the signal, the foot
    controller got cursed at for its cheesyness (ask Buck about the 
    heavy duty KH foot controller that you couldn't hurt if you tried!)
    and its STUPID patch reversion non-feature. What I mean by this is that
    if you were on patch 3, then hit the button for patch 5, then hit patch
    5 again, it would revert to the previous program (3). Its sort of like the
    "last channel" button on a TV remote. Which would be fine, BUT the 
    buttons are sensitive as all hell so you frequently get "double hits"
    when you don't want them. You can adjust the stomp button actuators,
    which is good because every so often you HAVE to for the darn thing to
    work right.
      So Pat, I'm not out of the effects thing. The Rocktron Intellifex
    works SO much better and has a MUCH purer, more natural sound that it's
    the one I'm keeping for quite some time ot come. It's less of a 
    guitar-gadget and more of a pro signal processor (it would be great for 
    PA use as well!). 
      As far as being non-effected or less effected, I'd have to say that 
    between my re-tweaking my effects and just playing through the REXX
    or KH M1/M5's I AM using my effects either much less OR in a more
    natural sounding manner. My newest REXX arrangement will work fine
    with just a chorus/delay and the integrated channel switching. 
      I don't think I'll be one to jump on the bandwagon for the next
    big step in signal processing. I can live with just a chorus pedal
    and channel switching but there are times I like using delay. 
    
    					-a less-effected B()()M- 

    I set B()()M on the road to FX sobriety...instilling the notion that
    less really IS more!  8^)

I've had a GSP-21 Legend for a few months now.  In general, I am pleased
with the product; it does what I need it to.  I find it quite versatile,
haven't found anything yet that they did stupid that causes me big grief.
The foot controller is versatile with it's 5 and 10 patch modes and the
ability to map effect on/off to a switch.

In general, the preprogrammed patches are not too useful to me, other than
as demos of how to use some of the effects.  I guess they are too "90s"
for me.  I just start with everything off and bring effects up slowly
to enhance the sound a little.  The speaker simulator is handy, able to
give a different tonal quality to all patches.  I have a different setting
for playing live, practicing through a mixer, etc.

Of course, I do have a few negative comments.  I'll present them here as
a warning and also to solicit advice from others... maybe I'm missing
something and one of these complaints can be resolved.

For the "bypass effects" feature to be useful, the volume out of the unit
should be about the same as the volume of the average programmed patch.
However, if I set a patch's volume to match the bypassed volume, the box
is working so far down from it's maximum signal handling strength that the
noise is unbearable.  When I set a patch's overall volume to a reasonable
level which is well above the unit's noise floor, hitting the "bypass"
switch give me a drastic volume loss.  Seems to me the unit could use a
"bypass volume" control.

It's nice to be able to individually enable or disable particular effects
within a patch, but this is troublesome with the distortion effect, again
because of volume.  Turning distortion on and off within a particular patch
causes a large volume shift, especially if alot of distortion is being used.
Perhaps it needs a volume control just for the distortion effect, like the
compressor has.

The way I use the foot pedal, I never dial up a particular patch with it
by three-digit number, but I'm always changing banks of effects.  I think
it should be changed so that the first tap of the upper right switch gets
you the bank select prompt and the second tap gets you the program number
prompt.  They could make this programmable one way or the other.

It sometimes takes a long time holding down a button to go from one extreme
to the other of a parameter's range.  Why not have the feature where the
parameter value changes faster and faster the longer you hold it.

Is anybody really smart enough to program the ultimate reverb?

Can you build a bypass patch?

About Ultimate Reverb. I had that on my DSP256. It's a bear to program.
If you get a look at the DSP256XL you'll see that they've add a Room
Simulator that makes getting a good reverb sound much more manageable.
I'd imagine it'll show up on more of their boxes in the future.

>In general, the preprogrammed patches are not too useful to me, other than
>as demos of how to use some of the effects.
    
    Thats what they for.  :)  My favorite thing is to find one thats "kinda
    cool" and work with it to make it work for me.  90% of the time it
    means bringing the "dry" level up - the SOAK the thing with WET to show
    you how cool the unit is.  They (manufacturers) ALL do this "taking it 
    to extreme" thing.
    
>For the "bypass effects" feature to be useful, the volume out of the unit
>should be about the same as the volume of the average programmed patch.
>However, if I set a patch's volume to match the bypassed volume, the box
>is working so far down from it's maximum signal handling strength that the
>noise is unbearable.  When I set a patch's overall volume to a reasonable
>level which is well above the unit's noise floor, hitting the "bypass"
>switch give me a drastic volume loss.  Seems to me the unit could use a
>"bypass volume" control.
    
    Boyoboy - I sure know what you mean.  I venture to guess that you are
    using this GSP with an "amp" (as opposed to an full rack-type affair) ?
    All these things seem to be designed for use with a power amp (ala
    Metaltronix, MOSvalve, etc...).  I had this VERY problem with the ART
    SGE I used to have.  Except I'd bypass the SGE's distortion to use the
    Mp1 and get blown thru the wall because it choked the Mp1's signal
    so much...But I ended up working the power amp too hard with the SGE
    on-line.
    
    The bottom line is - I don't think these things work to good as an
    "effect" - Ergo, DON'T use bypass...Use the GSP all the time.
    If your using it in the FX loop of your fave black face twin, this
    might cause a rash on your fanny, because the twin will walk all over
    the GSP's clean tone.  :)  It's a trade off thing.  The only way out of
    it is to get a A/B box and power amp.  Use your GSP with a power amp,
    use your twin plain, and swithc back and forth - unless you can satiate
    your desires with the GSP standalone.
    
>It sometimes takes a long time holding down a button to go from one extreme
>to the other of a parameter's range.  Why not have the feature where the
>parameter value changes faster and faster the longer you hold it.
    
    Some units do this.  Alesis has a "harder your press, the faster the
    number go by" feature...You press real hard and you go from 0 to 100
    in nano seconds.  :)  As a former DIGItech kinda guy, I can relate to
    your observation.  The work around I used is that I copied all my
    favorite patches to 1-20 or so...I never have to go far that way.
    

>Is anybody really smart enough to program the ultimate reverb?
    
    Ultimate reverb eh ?  I chuckled when I saw that on my DSP128+.
    The ultimate reverb comes in boxes like Lexicon, Eventide, and
    TC - Not in DIGItechs, ALESIS, Roland etc...  :)  However, is Ultimate
    Reverb something you need on a guitar ?  I think a studio is a good
    place for 'Ultimates' that.    :)
    
    Moreso, if your looking for the Ultimate anything in a MIDI rig, you're
    gonna spend a BOAT LOAD of money finding it - like a Bradshaw switching
    system, multiple preamps, tube power amps, and maybe even some old
    marshall and fender heads...Then you gotta process it.
    
    However, if your looking for a low maintenance, versatile "comes
    pretty close to a LOT of sounds I'm lookin' for" rig, your on the right
    track for sure.  A lot of people get tired of the search, and go back
    to Twins, JC120's and Marshalls...There a bunch right in here.  :)
    
    For grins, check out the "The Ultimate Rig" topic.
    
    jc (with his MIDI-Puke-input)

>    Ultimate reverb eh ?  I chuckled when I saw that on my DSP128+.
>    The ultimate reverb comes in boxes like Lexicon, Eventide, and
>    TC - Not in DIGItechs, ALESIS, Roland etc...  :)
    
    I think you might get some argument on the "Roland" you included there
    if you posted that in Commusic.  Maybe that's true of Roland *guitar*
    effects, but they made some very nice high end dedicated reverbs, like
    the SRV2000, which is IMHO better then the cheap Lexicon reverb (LXP1).  
    
    (Hard to compare a $1500 reverb to a $500 reverb, and that's what
     you're doing with the SRV2000 and the LXP1.  Now if you want to talk
     about a PCM70, then it's a different story.)
    
    Guess all I'm saying is that not every box by "lower end" makers is
    junk, and not everything made by the "elite" makers is the best you can
    get.
    
    Greg

    Well, I didn't mean to imply that Alesis, Roland and DIGItech boxes
    are junk...  That'd be silly - I own (or have owned) most of that 
    stuff...I just think that "Ultimate Reverb" is tough to get in a guitar
    oriented box...And moreso, what would you want with "Ultimate" reverb
    in a guitar rig ?   A "good" 'verb would surely suffice.  :)
    
    jc (who wants a Roland AND A Lexicon for his studio :)

    
    The "low volume on bypass" thing was a primary reason for me to dump
    my 128+.  I kludged around it by setting up a clean patch at program
    location '1' where I retained volume, but squished my signal.  
    Essentially, I did not use bypass.  I would love to have Ultimate 
    Reverb in a stomp.  That was/is a sweet sounding 'verb patch.

    Don't you guys mess with the MIX knob ??  I used a DSP128 and DSP128+
    for years with no problems like that !?!?!
    

    Mix knob smix know...some in-line units, even when in bypass mode,
    still affect tone, dude!

    I never thought my DIGItech stuff did - My Rocktron DEFINATELY does
    though...
    

     
      The GSP21 doesn't have a mix knob like the DSP256/128, it should though.
    All the mix control is processor controlled,  FWIW. I think a DSP256
    is a better multi-effect choice for a multi-channel amp. 
      I'm much happier with my Intellifex than the GSP21, only because of
    the configuration I was using it in. As a standalone unit it's pretty
    good. 
    
    							-B()()M-

    Yes, as far as I can tell, I can do an "effects bypassed" effect.  That
    would solve the problem but would take up a patch in each bank.  This
    is not really a big deal for me anyway.  I do keep the GSP on all the
    time anyway, just to add a little compression, EQ and reverb.  Basically, 
    I fill up a bank with patches of varying compression and distortion 
    amounts while staying on the clean side.
    
    The main reason I got the thing was to give me a little reverb, which
    my amp doesn't have, and because I only had to shell out $100 plus my
    lemon Super 60 trade-in, which I thought was a pretty good deal
    considering that I never wanted to see the 60 again for as long as I
    lived.  The best thing is how much fun it is to practice with stereo
    chorus through headphones!  Really, once the band starts up, I wouldn't
    miss the reverb.  The chorus and reverb also make practicing keyboards
    more enjoyable.
    
    BTW - I am going directly from guitar -> GSP -> amp.
    
    About the reverb, the ultimate is truly a beautiful effect, but I don't
    use it because it takes up too much resources (e.g., you can't have a
    modulation effect in the same chain) and the other two reverbs suffice
    for my needs and I can understand how to tweak them.
    
    								Marc

    I bought a GSP21 pro a few years ago. It was almost a perfect unit IMHO
    but I didn't like the brief pause in sound when I would switch banks.
    -SS

    
     RE: -.1 
      I'll second that. As if we didn't have to concentrate enough when
    performing a tough tune live, you have to deal with switching into 
    lead mode exactly 383 milliseconds before your solo so it's there 
    when it's supposed to be. Nah - just sell it and buy a ROCKTRON!
      Not a bad machine besides that, but I would A/B it with a 
    Rocktron Voodu Valve or GSP-2101 before buying one. The switching on 
    the GSP-2101 is still slightly delayed, but not as bad.