Conference napalm::guitar

well, letsee,,  basically, the light touch is what seems to work
best.

I think some try too hard, and the effect is too blurry...  I just
take a slow gentle, approach...  

    
    	Well, for starters, vibrato is a subtle effect. Think of your
    Mom baking buscuits in the kitchen with a red plaid apron and singing.
    It's a very small wiggle, just enough to be detectable. It adds
    "warmth" to the tone and the modulation *frequency* (if you were
    doing it on a synth) is in the 3-8 Hz area.
    
    	If your hands are tense, start by modulating the pressure with
    which you're holding the string down to the fret board. If you have
    kinda high frets, you should be able to hear a very small pitch
    change as you do this. If you have a scalloped fretboard,...
    
    	Work up to moving the string along the line of the fret itself,
    trying again to keep it small and subtle. When you catch the frequency
    and the modulation both at the same time, it'll sound warm, and
    musically pleasing.
    
    	Joe

    
    	The Arlen Roth Chicago Blues Guitar vid has an excellent segment 
    	on vibrato and goes into detail on BB's technique which concentrates
    	more on the placement and pivoting of the side of the index finger 
    	on the side of the neck.  He uses a rapid rocking of the string.  
    	Subtle yes, but quick.  

	Vibrato should have a life. It usually `grows' on sustained
	notes. The best exercise I know of for getting the feel of this
	is to set a aside a practice session for one note.

	Relax fully before beginning the session. Sit with the instrument
	and feel the silence. Find a note on the fretboard. For the next
	hour, play with one that one note. If you find yourself drifting,
	go back to it. This exercise will help you learn about the
	attack and aftertouch techniques and will also get you interested
	in rhythm. It's OK to good with amp settings and FX while doing
	this stuff.

    Thanks, all, for the suggestons.  I'll hafta try them out this weekend. 
    Any other words of advice gladly received.  Anyone else have a hurdle
    getting a good vibrato?  How did you overcome it?
    
    	Dan
    

    The idea is to modulate the tension on the string somehow.  There are
    several ways:
    
    1. If your guitar has high frets, modulate pressure on the string as
    you fret the note.
    
    2. If your frets are low, fret the note firmly, then release your thumb
    and hand from the back of the neck while keeping the finger firmly on
    the string being fretted and vibrate your hand in the same direction as
    the string runs, i.e. you pull the string looser and tighter by doing
    that.
    
    3. Fret the note, release the hand and thumb as described above.  Then,
    while keeping the finger very stiff, slide the string back and forth
    across the frets.  This motion originates from the elbow, your wrist
    and finger will be stiff. (This one feels awkward to me for the index
    finger, but I use it for the others often)
    
    4. Fret the note lightly and let up on your thumb gripping the neck,
    but not totally released as above.  Then twist your forearm back and
    forth.  This will slide the string back and forth across the frets.  
    
    All of these motions are subtle.  #'s 1 and 2 will get you very slight
    vibrato which is really nice at times.  #3 can be almost as heavy as an
    old technology whammy bar, but can be just as subtle as your touch
    develops.  #4 is some where in between.
    
    Depending on the fingering you're in the middle of, position, etc, the
    different ways are appropriate and work well at different times.
    
    See if those are decent descriptions.  It's hard to tell when I'm
    writing them.
    
    Have fun, hope this helps,
    
    Will

    Vibrato is one of the things for which I think it helps enormously to
    have a *visual* aid. For one thing, there are at least three vibrato
    techniques:
    
    1. "pushing" vibrato - This is the way most rock and blues players do
    it, by pushing the string toward the top of the neck.
    
    2. "pulling" vibrato - I've rarely seen anyone use this technique
    besides myself, but I use it a lot as an alternative to pushing. You
    have to sort of catch the string under your fingertip and pull it in
    toward your palm. It's good for doing wide vibrato on the low strings
    (you run out of fretboard if you push them, plus it's hard to get the
    right pivot in your wrist with your fingers stretched out all the way),
    as well as for doing a lighter, quicker vibrato.
    
    3. "shaking" vibrato - This is the way classical guitarists do it
    (there's probably a better name for it). You move your whole hand
    parallel to the neck instead of across it, while keeping your finger in
    the same place, sort of like you were using a slide. Larry Carlton uses
    this very effectively, as do many jazz players. It gives a lighter,
    much more subtle vibrato.
    
    It's also possible to combine 1 & 2 above into a really wide, wild
    vibrato, and of course there are vibrato *bars* and various techniques
    for using them. Then you can pull the strings at the above the nut,
    below the bridge, flex the neck... Who said guitar was simple?
    
    In any case, some of these techniques are difficult to master and
    require a lot of practice. I've learned a lot over the years by
    watching the hand placement and left hand wrist technique of other
    guitarists whose playing I admire. I personally happen to prefer
    listening to guitarists who have mastered these techniques, because
    they add a lot of character to your playing, as opposed to just
    cranking out notes. 
    
    - Ram

>    2. "pulling" vibrato - I've rarely seen anyone use this technique
    
    FWIW, Keaggy uses this method quite a bit, but not as much as "pushing".
    I agree with it not being very common though.
    
    Mike

    Yes, generally:
    
    E - push
    B - push
    G - push
    D - push
    A - pull
    E - pull
    
    It's fortuitous that the lower strings are also easier to grab with one
    finger.
    
    Most vibrato should be subtle, however, there are some brilliant
    counterexamples. Vibrato creates musical tension.
    
    
    							John.

    The pushing / pulling of the strings is how you control tonality on the
    classical guitar. Vibrato , you have to have a soft touch on the string
    and move th finger tip in  a wiggling pattern. 
    Or you can hold a whammy bar in the palm of your hand, let it rest
    there, no real weight on the stick , just enough. 
    This might be alot harder if you only use a plectrum , where you have
    to move the hand. 

    
    It all depends on application.  
    
    For lower notes, I like using slower/subtle vibrato.  
    For higher "screamer" notes including pick harmonics, I LOVE using
    fast/wild vibrato.
    These changes, according to the mood of the song.
    
    As far as acquiring them, there's a neat article by Rick Emmett
    in Guitar Player Nov 89 issue.  I really can't post it since it has
    illustrations, but I'd be happy to send it to ya if you wanna send
    me your mailing address. 
    
    I think relaxing your hand helps a lot, also.  Watch B.B. King 
    or any other blues giants sometime.
    
    So-Hong

    I was kind skeptical about the replies you'd get when I first saw this
    note, but I am pleasantly surprised.  Even though vibrato is very
    difficult to explain how to perform, there have been some excellent
    and informative responses here.
    
    I think vibrato is a great way of making a note a little fatter, so it
    sticks out just a bit.
    
    I remember reading one of those instructional articles written by Steve
    Morse several years ago and the part that he impressed on me was that
    vibrato technique should center around a certain note and should be
    varied on either side of it, or else it will sound out of tune.  I
    think he recommended using a combined push-pull technique, but I don't
    really remember.
    
    One exercise that Steve Vai recommended in one of his columns is like
    someone here recommended in a previous note, that of playing only one
    note for several hours (yep, he really did say for several *hours*)
    trying different vibrato techniques and such.  I remember talking to
    Joe Minville not long after that came out and he said he'd tried it and
    thought it really did help.
    
    Personally, I also had trouble getting a good vibrato technique.  I
    play electric guitar almost exclusively and for the first four years I
    played (or so), I used a technique similar to the classical technique
    described before, where you push and pull the string without bending it
    (you know stretching it nut to bridge rather then bending it side to
    side on the fretboard).  It sounds ok, but is VERY subtle on an
    electric.
    
    I was taking lessons from a guy that showed me a technique more rock
    and blues oriented, which is the bending technique like BB King uses,
    where you fret the note using your index finger and then pivot your
    entire hand around it.  This can give you a really wide sweeping
    vibrato and it's pretty easy to vary the speed.  This guy had me
    work on nothing but this for at last three weeks.  It didn't come
    easy and quite honestly, it was probably over a year before I could
    really do it well.
    
    As my playing has progressed since then, I've gotten a little more
    aggressive and I've found myself using a vibrato technique that sounds
    similar to the "pull" technique that Ram presented.  I usually use the
    pivot thing if I'm fretting the note with the index or middle finger,
    but use the "pull" technique if I'm fretting with my ring finger or
    pinkie.  The way I do it is to GRAB the neck and then turn my wrist
    while pulling and releasing with my fingers.  This gives a really wide
    vibrato that I find is hard for me to get any other way.
    
    One player who's vibrato technique is pretty unique is Eric Clapton. 
    He releases his thumb from the back of the neck and his whole fretting
    hand moves straight up and down.  He gets a really wide vibrato this
    way and it seems like it's easy for him to control in the upper fret
    register.  Quite honestly, I've tried to do it this way and I just
    can't do it!  I'm so accustomed to some flavor of a pivoting type
    vibrato that I can't get that up and down motion right.  I suppose that
    I could eventually get it, if I were to practice enough, but why
    bother?  I *like* my vibrato technique...
    
    Hope this helps,
    Greg

    	I'd love to see that article.  I'll get in touch with you off-line.
    
    	Dan
    

>    I remember reading one of those instructional articles written by Steve
>    Morse several years ago and the part that he impressed on me was that
>    vibrato technique should center around a certain note and should be
>    varied on either side of it, or else it will sound out of tune.  I
>    think he recommended using a combined push-pull technique, but I don't
>    really remember.
    
    Unless you're doing vibrato on a bended (bent?) note, wouldn't it be
    impossible to "center" the vibrato on the note?  I mean, whether you're
    pulling or pushing to create vibrato (using that technique), it is
    still varying the note sharp, right?
    
    	Dan
    

    �   Unless you're doing vibrato on a bended (bent?) note, wouldn't 
    �   it be impossible to "center" the vibrato on the note?
    
    Yeah.  That's true of all the techniques discussed so far _except_
    the classical vibrato ("loosening" and "tightening" the string by
    pulling parallel to the neck).  That's one of the reasons I like
    the classical alot.  I use it so much that I've gotten enough power
    behind it to make the pitch changes quite obvious.  One thing I
    really adore is modulating the pitch very slowly using this technique.
    Try the 1-2 Hz range.
    
    							Marc

    RE: .14
    
    >Unless you're doing vibrato on a bended (bent?) note, wouldn't it be
    >impossible to "center" the vibrato on the note?  I mean, whether you're
    >pulling or pushing to create vibrato (using that technique), it is
    >still varying the note sharp, right?
    
    I guess you're right, maybe I never did understand what he was talking
    about...
    
    Greg
        

    >�   Unless you're doing vibrato on a bended (bent?) note, wouldn't 
    >�   it be impossible to "center" the vibrato on the note?
    >
    >Yeah.  That's true of all the techniques discussed so far _except_
    >the classical vibrato ("loosening" and "tightening" the string by
    >pulling parallel to the neck).
    
    Not quite true. The classical technique also works from a fretted note
    as a base and only varies the tone higher.
    
    Another trick that I thought of is using two or more fingers when
    pushing. To do this, fret the note with a finger other that the index
    finger, then place one or two of your other fingers adjacent to it on
    the string. For example, finger with your ring finger and place the
    middle finger on the string right next to it. It doesn't really matter
    whether the other fingers are in the same fret area or straddle frets,
    because they won't affect the tone. They just provide some extra
    muscles to bend the string. I don't normally use this technique unless
    I am trying to get vibrato on a string that is already bent up pretty
    far ("Jimi Hendrix" vibrato) where I need the extra strength (it takes
    a lot of strength to control this). But it could be helpful to a
    beginner with weaker fingers.
    
    - Ram

    
    I agree with Greg that the vibrato should center intself on the note.
    Maybe we're confusing bending with vibrato.  You can do vibrato on a 
    bent or natural note, right?  I think of the idea of centering as
    moving the string toward you and then away from you with the center
    being the natural note.  Of course what the f*ck do I know.  ;^)

    >I mean, whether you're
    >pulling or pushing to create vibrato (using that technique), it is
    >still varying the note sharp, right?
    
    Not nec.  I mean, when I bend up to a note (either pushing or pulling),
    I vibrato that (bent) note flat.  Example:
    
    1    b7	 1	b7	1	b7	1
    Bent release bent   release bent    release bent
    
    Now, when I vibrato an un-bent note, or I'm using the whammy bar (with 
    either bent or non-bent notes), I pull the notes sharp.  Those are 
    the two basic vibrato techniques I use.

    	Well, if you all would read my note, I *did* say "unless you're
    using vibrato on a bent note".
    
    	Dan
    

    � >Yeah.  That's true of all the techniques discussed so far _except_
    � >the classical vibrato ("loosening" and "tightening" the string by
    � >pulling parallel to the neck).
    
    � Not quite true. The classical technique also works from a fretted note
    � as a base and only varies the tone higher.
      
    Respectfully disagree.  I push towards the bridge and the tone gets
    lower than the unmodified fretted note.
    
    Another variation is to change the speed of the vibrato as a single
    note is held.

    Yup,I also use the "classical" method for electric or acoustic(learned 
    painfully for slow fiddle playing!!" and you DEFINITELY stretch and
    slacken the string if done properly;-so the notes sounded are around
    the fretted note,above and below.
    	'Course it's not the only or best way for everyone............
    						
    							Big Jim.
    

    >Yup,I also use the "classical" method for electric or acoustic(learned 
    >painfully for slow fiddle playing!!" and you DEFINITELY stretch and
    >slacken the string if done properly;-so the notes sounded are around
    >the fretted note,above and below.
    
    I could believe this was possible on gut or nylon strings, but it's
    really hard for me to imagine how you could be applying enough pressure
    on a steel string to stretch it *toward* the bridge. That's what you'd
    have to be doing to have the effect you're describing. But I'll take
    your word for it (and check it out on my own).
    
    - Ram

    Come over here, I'll show you.

    Pat Blair let me borrow a video called "Chicago Blues Guitar" by Arlen
    Roth, and he demostrates some pretty good vibrato technique.  While
    following along with the tape, I noticed that my "style" is way too
    fast ... but it's hard to slow it down after all these years.  I've
    noticed my hyperactivity on performance tapes too.  My best advice
    would be to slow down, no matter how slow you shake 'em now ...
    
    Scary (hyper bends ...)

But Scary, thats your style.  If you changed it it wouldn't be you.

jc (who knows Scary-Vibrato when he hears it)

    I typically create a vibrato by pushing and pulling the string when
    the base note is unbent, so that the vibrato is 'centered' over
    the base note, with the vibrato going sharp on both sides.
    
    With a bent note as the base note, the same technique results in
    one side of the vibrato being sharp to the base note and the other
    side being flat.
    
    I'm trying to get a vibrato that swells as the note sustains, like
    a singer, because I love the way someone like Joan Baez can add
    vibrato to a sustained note.
                    
    Regards,
    John K.
    

Folks,

	Thought I'd dig this NOTE out and air what I found yesterday.

This is no new news from all the previous replies, but if any readers have 
access to a two speed tape..........

I borrowed a reel to reel two speed tape over the weekend to make some slow 
motion copies of the latest Gary Moore (Still got the Blues) album for the 
purpose of copying some of his great blues licks.......

Well, after about an hour of listening to complete tracks at half speed, your
ear adjusts to the "octave down" and you start "listening" and recognising the 
licks just as when they were at full speed.

The thing that stuck out for me, and I found myself listening to, was Gary's 
vibrato. Sure enough, he would hit the note, then apply the vibrato taking the 
note sharp as he pushed, and sharp as he pulled. At half speed the damn thing 
sounded very un-musical and down-right out of tune.    

I did the same for other guitarists.....including the un-tabed Clapton and
Hendrix section of the Eric Johnson video.......same effect.

So, in summary, our ears are fooled into thinking the vibrato "centres" (pitch 
-wise) on the base note when applying BB King type vibrato on un-bent notes 
and applied at 5 hz type frequencies.

Dave