Conference napalm::guitar

    
    Nigel, did you enter this in COMMUSIC? I looked in the directory, and
    did a search for MG510, but didn't come up with your note. 
    As you haven't gotten any replies here, I thought I would check out 
    COMMUSIC comments. I have no experience with the gear you have, but I
    do have more than a passing interest.....but as usual, no cash for
    these types of toys.
    
    Barry

re .-1

	I actually entered it as a reply to note 1755 in COMMUSIC which is
titled something like 'MIDI guitarists unite'. This has quite a number of
replies (mine was .62) and has comments and experiences of people who have 
Roland and Casio controllers.

Nigel

re:0 (base note entry.)

Nigel,

Aint these the coolest things since whammys that don't go out of tune ?

I've got the MG510 (a White one w/Black trimmings)..


I use a Roland D110 sound control (which is the bawls...)

U.s. prices,, it was about $1,600 for the axe and the D110,
Mail order..


But yea, I've had mine for about a year and a half.. and it's a great..

The qaulity of the guitar is very good, and I agree, it's a hot little
axe in it's own right, before you even plug the midi port in.

One of the better attributes is that it's also a functional guitar
AND Midi controller.. all  with the flip of a switch.

During working gigs, I plug the guitar part of the axe in through my guitar 
amp/rack too.

When we do a song that needs the midi, I use the midi, a song that needs
guitar, I select guitar.. Sometimes, I even mix-em for some wild effects.

Best part is no changing between songs and the ability to intermix guitar
and midi for various parts...  (Like a chorus thats heavy with strings..)


oh yea,,

One thing you didn't mention is the giutar also has a built in tuner..
hit a string, watch the little red arrows near the 'sharp/flat' signitures.
Get the two little red arrows to light up on each string, and youre
now tuned to A440...  


Also,

There's a transition period you have to go through with playing it.  (Took
me a few months to feel like I could really cook on it.)

One thing you'll notice real fast is that Midi is about as unforgiving as 
recording.  Miss-triggers are easy to over come, but pretty frustrating
till you get use to it.  I generally do not us a pick when I'm midi-ing.

another thing,,,  Poly vs. Mono..

Another neat little trick that's doable from my sound controller.

I can set up a patch to have up to 8 different parts (Parts would = separate
Timbres or sounds)  {Lots of controllers have this capablility}.  within
each part, you have a bunch of editable parameters, (Midi Chanel, Pan, 
bender-range , Key-high/Key-Low, etc...)

Within the patch, I can set each Part (1 thru 8) up to listen for a key range.

Hence I can split the guitar up anyway that's best, for each different part,
once I find out what key range will correspond properly with each timbre (or in
this case individual par tin the patch) 

so if I set it up right, I can have say, strings firing on the hi-e and b 
string, piano firing on the e a d g string, and so on and so
forth, up to 8 separate sounds in one patch..  THAT I LIKE!!!

Yes, WAY COOL.

    Also cross-posted from COMMUSIC ...
    
    I just couldn't resist any more. After looking longingly at all
    the >$1000 MIDI controllers (and having my feeble keyboard
    attempts laughed at by fellow band mates 8^)), when I heard that
    Sam Ash had the Casio MG-510 on sale for $399, I took the leap.
    Got it yesterday, and on first impression agree with all the good
    things talked about a few replies back.

    Very nice, good sounding/feeling guitar, much like a Strat. Feels
    similar to the Fender Lead 1 I've been playing, and the sound is
    actually quite a bit better, so I'm happy with just the guitar
    part. The on-board tuner is "way cool", all guitars should have
    one.

    The MIDI tracking is pretty good IMHO. Spent a couple of hours
    last night adjusting the action and the individual sensitivity
    settings, and it tracks pretty consistently now. I imagine there's
    still some fine tuning to be done. I can still out run it if I
    realy try, especially on the lower strings. But, if I compare the
    tracking limitations against the limitations of my keyboard
    skills, I'm way ahead with the guitar. In general, I'm more than
    willing to adjust my playing style a bit to fit the situation.
    Especially since, in many cases, the sounds (not necessarily the
    controller) require that you slow down, or think about playing a
    little differently.

    Also, really like the idea that everything's built into the guitar. No
    rack mount with some bizarre 30-pin connecting cable. All the controls
    are built right in, accessible and nicely designed. Of course for those
    folks who are totally in love with their '57 Les Paul (or whatever),
    and wouldn't think of playing anything else, this would be a drawback.

    Minor zits -

    o I'm not a real connoisseur of these things, but the whammy bar
    feels kinda cheap and too sensitive for my tastes. 

    o The poly/mono select is a micro-switch hidden in the back of the
    guitar. Too early to tell, but I think I would really like this to
    be accessible in real time. Probably wouldn't be too hard to bring
    it out on the front panel somewhere if I get real adventurous.


    Overall I think this is a *great* buy at the price. I imagine at
    some point I'll wish I had something that tracked a little better
    and had some of the fancier mapping functions that the more
    expensive rack mounts have. But, as with a lot of the MIDI stuff,
    it's often a trade off between waiting for "next year's model", or
    having fun with what you've got (can afford) now.


    Rob

 
I'd just like to add a few comments..

first,  congrats.. you will grow to love this thing..
Great, (I MEAN GAAAAA-REAT) price...   I think I paid up in the high 5's for
mine..  I'm jealous!

O.k.  a few observatrions:

<<In general, I'm more than  willing to adjust my playing style a bit to fit 
<<the situation.  Especially since, in many cases, the sounds (not necessarily
<<the controller) require that you slow down, or think about playing a
<<little differently.

What controller are you using?? (just curious..)

Some timbres do allow you to 'run' faster then others.. for example, the
PIPE ORGAN sound on my (roland) D110 responds about as quick as anything in 
the normal sense of the word..  where as the standard 'B3 and piano
timbres doens't..

And yup, you do have to 'adjust' your playing style.. more or less,
think like a keyboard player, or sax player, or ,,(add in what ever
sound your getting the midi to reproduce.)  The Piano 'style' is something
I've really become accoustomed to.  I can 'Honky-tonk' on the midi, and
people in the general audience are usualyl 'grabbed' and rather amused
by the authenticity of it..  I coulnd't pull it off at first, but now, can.  
Take your time, the adjustmnet does come,,
 
<<o I'm not a real connoisseur of these things, but the whammy bar
<<feels kinda cheap and too sensitive for my tastes. 

Well, it's not a rose or a kahler, but for $400.00 and what you
have,,, yes,, a minor zit at best...  I don't use it on mine...
I've got and axe for true 100% no-cholesterol playing..   The midi is
60% of the time, used for the midi stuff,, in a tight sopt I'll
also use it as a standard guitar,, but I've got mine set up action wise
so that it better suits the midi playing,, so....


<<o The poly/mono select is a micro-switch hidden in the back of the
<<guitar. Too early to tell, but I think I would really like this to
<<be accessible in real time. Probably wouldn't be too hard to bring
<<it out on the front panel somewhere if I get real adventurous.


Well I dunno about this...  (again, depending on your sound controller)
you can set up patches to have different parts, track different key
ranges in poly mode.  In Mono, each string could triggers a different
part (or sound/timbre)...  After almost 2 years with mine, I can't see a BIG 
benefit to Mone over Poly..  I'd rather the poly mode..  But time will tell 
whats best for you.. the swtich over would utterly mess 50% of my
patches totaly beyond use...  (but that's just me, and my opinion)

<<Overall I think this is a *great* buy at the price. I imagine at
<<some point I'll wish I had something that tracked a little better
<<and had some of the fancier mapping functions that the more
<<expensive rack mounts have. But, as with a lot of the MIDI stuff,
<<it's often a trade off between waiting for "next year's model", or
<<having fun with what you've got (can afford) now.


Aint it the truth!

oh yea, one other thing,,

you may find that most of the time,, your better of NOT using a pick
especially with the keyboard sounds (specifically Piano.)..  Hopefully, 
that adjustment wount kill alot of time for you... I hardly EVER us a pick,
once in a while, if the pick suits the patch, but generally, I just use my
thumb/fingers as you would on an acoustic guitar..

    The "typical" reason for the poly/mono switch is for pitch bends.
    
    In MONO, a bent D string will effect all the others; hardly guitar
    like, but SOP for keyboards.
    
    In poly, each string would get it's own MIDI channel and pitch bends
    would only apply to that string, like a guitar?
    
    Can the Casio transmit on >1 channel???
    
    Edd

    <<The "typical" reason for the poly/mono switch is for pitch bends.
    <<In MONO, a bent D string will effect all the others; hardly guitar
    <<like, but SOP for keyboards.

Gee, I've never-ever noticed that, and I've got mine set to poly...
Pitch bends do effect any timbre that string maybe firing...  I'll
have to bench it and see what happens..
   
 
    <<In poly, each string would get it's own MIDI channel and pitch bends
    <<would only apply to that string, like a guitar?

Again, in Poly, I've never noticed this not to be the case.
    
    <<Can the Casio transmit on >1 channel???

Yup, you can set it up so that (I believe) each string will talk on
it's own chanell, via the dip switches in the back.. (I'll double check 
this if need be, but I do think that was all in the book...)

btw/fwiw..  In Poly, the casio comes defaulted to Channel 15.
    
   

    My "D string" comment, BTW, was only an example. In MONO mode, ANY
    bend on ANY string would effect ALL the others, giving an effect 
    not unlike a whammy bar...
    
    If you set the axe up so that each string x-mits on a different 
    MIDI channel, and then set up a patch with the same timbre on each
    channel (i.e. "Everything is a sax...") you should be able to
    selectively bend notes in a chord (A-C-E, and only the E bends).
    In MONO mode, not only would the E bend, but so would the A&C.
    
    ...might be some tricks in that box you ain't learned yet Ray!!!
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd 

    RE: the last few

    Actually I think Casio's terminology for this is confusing the issue.
    As I understand it, POLY vs. MONO on the MG-510 means that the guitar
    transmits all strings on one channel (POLY) or each string on a
    separate channel (MONO).

    I haven't noticed (in POLY mode) that bending one string bends all the
    notes, but then I usually only bend notes on single note runs. I have
    noticed that the whammy bar doesn't produce the effect I expected, and
    if I think about what MIDI messages get sent, I imagine that it must be
    sending a pitch bend which would affect all the notes. I'll have to
    check it out tonight.

    In MONO mode, you can set the "base" channel with the dip switches and
    the guitar transmits on that channel, plus the next five. (Typical
    Casio design if you're familiar with the CZ-101.)

    I've only played with the POLY mode so far. Haven't gotten around to
    doing the setup necessary to get a different sound on each string.

    Rob
    

edd, you've got your terminology ass-backwards... (poly vs. mono)

Plus, the more I think about it...

I think mono vs. poly has nothing to do with pitch bends, maybe
there's a side effect but I don't think so.  The poly vs. mono
applicaiton is there to track different sounds wihtin a patch, by 
each string.  Cuz the midi pickup listens to each string individually,
this is doable.  (In Poly, you can also obtain the same results by
setting parts to a upper and lower key range.)

I'll bet that regardless of mode, (poly/mono) that the only strings
that will occur with pitch bend, are the strings that are bent.

The reason I'm starting to believe this is real simple...  The
midi pickup is only going to track and transmit the pitch/note a given 
string is playing or vibrating...

Consdier this:

If I play an A and D note on the D and G string respectively, but only
bend the D note on the G string,, that note that will respond to the
pitch bend ottaonly  be the note that got bent! 

It's pososible your thinking like a  keyboard player with a pitch wheel..  
now I don't profess to know exactly what goes on here, but my guess is,
depending how it's set up, the wheel could/would effect the entire scale, 
better put, all notes in a given chord, where  on a guitar each string can
be bent or not bent individually.   Again, I'm positive there are ways
you can modify this setting on your 'boards' by using the bender range on 
a given sound... 

The differences or similarity to what were discussing as far as a guitar vs. 
keyboard with a pitch bend wheel would be analogous to a whammy bar on a 
guitar where all the stirings are effected by the application..

Again, I'll try this tonight, but....

How could the A note on a D string transmit a pitch bend, if the only
note being bent is the D note on the G string ?  The midi pickup
tracks each string indiviually, not the entire 6 strings as a whole.

So while the A note is vibrating, sending that pitch to the pickup, which in
this case would be constant, I should *think/assume* that the A note would
also remain constant once the pitch to midi conversion happens.  While
subsequently, the D note (on the G string) which is indeed being bent,
*will* be tracked 'thusly  at the pickup, and once the conversion
happens, sends that data to the sound controller.


Maybe I missed your point totally..

Again, I think where your getting lost is on the pitch wheel vs. individual
strings,,,  again, in comparison the whammy bar is the closest thing to your
pitch bend  wheel but this is not what I'm talking about...

Follow ?


yes ?

    Well, in light of .10, I may have the terminology backwards.
    
    Ah, I just thought of something. The MG has 2 different tracking modes.
    Chromatic and {mumbledy}. I'll bet bending a string doesn't send a
    PB MIDI message. It probably just tracks the pitch, which, if you're
    in non-chromatic mode simply SOUNDS like a pitch bend....
    
    Maybe the whammy sends PB MIDI messages....
    
    Edd

This is the gist of some mail I sent to Ray regarding my thoughts on 
    what may be happening with the poly/mono pitch bend thingie...
    
    I figured I'd post it here for discussion...
                                                   
    Edd
    

Suppose all the strings are set to x-mit on the same MIDI channel. When
you play a chord, the pitch to MIDI converter analyzes the frequency of
each string and send out the appropriate "note-on" message on that
channel...

Now, let's say one of the notes in that chord was an A-880. The D110 can
play that with no problem. But, what if you bend that string with your 
left hand. Now instead of vibrating at 880hz, you've got it vibrating
at 897hz, decidedly sharp, but not even close to the Bb directly above
it. The D110 doesn't have any notes for 897hz. 

If I members correctly, the MG has a couple modes, "Chromatic" and
"non-chromatic" (or something). Chromatic would mean that during the 
pitch to MIDI conversion, the MG would analyze the frequency and send
out whatever note was *closest* to that pitch. A frequency of 890hz
would probably cause an A just as good as 880hz would...

But, in "non-chromatic" (or whatever it may be called) the only way I
can think of to generate that 897 hz tone would be to play the A-880
and then pitch bend it up to 897. Now here's where it might get fun...

Since we've set the axe up to ONLY play on 1 channel, the D110 will
get a MIDI pitch bend message on that channel. Most synths (my DX is
the only exception I know of, but there's probably more) will respond
by bending ALL the notes on that channel. That's what MIDI does.
It gets a message, on a channel, and whatever is listening on that 
channel responds....

Now lets have some fun with Edd's hypothetical guessing.... Let's set up
the MG so that low E is on channel 1, A on 2, D on 3..... high E on 6.
Then let's set up a D110 patch with 6 parts, one part on channel 1,
another on 2, all the way up to 6. Let's find a nice guitar sound in
the D110 and assign it to EVERY part! Now you've got a guitar on
MIDI chan 1 and that only listens to the low E string. But you've got
a guitar sound on MIDI ch 2 and that only listens to the A string. This
goes on all the way up to MIDI chan 6 which only listens to the high E.

Now play that same chord with the A880 and bend the A to 897hz. The pitch
bend message is only going to go out on *1* channel!!! All the other pitches
should stay the same 'cuz they didn't get a pitch bend message ON THE CHANNEL
they're assigned to.... Some didddling with the pitch bend parameters on the
D110 will probably allow you to bend that A note 1, maybe 2, OCTAVES!! Maybe
even allow you to bend it DOWN!! Try that with your Ibenhad!!! ;^)

See? Of course, since I'm not on intimate terms with the MG I wouldn't be
surprised if I've possibly over-estimated it's capabilities or just simply
over looked something obvious...

/e

    Edd, the usual function of chromatic modes on guitar synths is that
    when you bend strings, you can get chromatic stepping rather than
    portamento/pitch bend type response...so you can do piano trills by
    bending strings, etc.
    
    						Brian

    It also allows you to not worry a whole lot about tuning....;^)
    
    Edd

    
    Well Edd, you're pretty close, but the Casio does one thing a little
    different.
    
    In MONO mode (each string on a different channel) you should be able to
    do just what you suggested, with each pitch bend being independant
    since it's sending basically single notes on six separate channels.
    Using the whammy bar, for example, would send six different pitch bend
    messages. Haven't tried it, but that what the manual says.
    
    In POLY mode (all on one channel), if you bend a single string it sends
    the pitch bend message. But if the converter detects that you're
    bending a note, while more than one note is playing, it automatically
    jumps (temporarily) into the chromatic mode and sends new notes in
    half-step intervals, instead of pitch bend messages. Kind of wierd, but
    not a bad solution to the problem (really a MIDI limitation. I don't
    think there's a standard way to pitch bend just a single note, is
    there?)
    
    How's that for techy trivia? Still a nice toy all-in-all.
    
    Rob
    

    > I don't think there's a standard way to bend just a single note,
      is there?
    
    Well, not owning an MG, I have to differ to those who do, but for
    discussion's sake let's talk about the above...
    
    I see that as essentially moot. Since only 1 note-on  could possibly be
    generated on any given string (hence, on any given channel), the
    SGU doesn't have to jump thru any special MIDI hoops. It needs only
    to simply bend *all* the notes on channel X. Since "all=1", the MIDI
    spec should serve quite well...
    
    ...but it seems the MG defeats this.
    
    Does the MG generate a PB message when a string is bent if ONLY 1
    string is being played??? That could lend it self to some interesting
    applications by setting up a variety of parts on the D110, transposing
    them, and setting different pitch bend ranges....
    
                  Part 1 (transpose +12) = A(up 1 octave)
                       2 (transpose + 3) = C
    Note-on =A         3 (transpose + 7) = E
                       4 (transpose -12) = A(down 1 octave)
                       5 (no transpose )
    
    Voila! Auto chords!!! Play one note and get 5. Instant Aminor. A little
    diddling with the pitch bend amounts for each part and you could
    conceivably bend out this Am to, say, an Fmaj7, just by pulling on
    the string...
    
    yes??
    
    Edd
    

    ...or! Set the transpose on all the parts to 0, but set the pitch
    bend amounts differently.
    
    Play a one note line and you get the same not played multiple times.
    Nothing exciting there. But, bend it and all the notes bend a differnt
    amount until they form a chord...
    
    Edd
    
              

    
    RE:17
    
>>  ...but it seems the MG defeats this.
    
    No, sorry if the previous posting was confusing. In MONO mode it should
    do this just fine. You can bend a string (or all the strings) and get a
    pitch bend message for that string/channel no matter how many notes are
    being played. If you've got a nice multi-timbral synth that allows some
    flexibilty in setting up different parts, you can play all kinds of
    tricks. The only limitation here is that the MG has to send on six
    consecutive channels in this mode. You can only change the "base"
    channel, not just assign any string to any channel.
    
    It's just in POLY mode, where everything's going to the same channel,
    that the MG interprets the bends differently depending on whether
    you're playing one note or multiple.
    
    Rob
    

	I think that the truth has emerged in the last few replies. 

	When in POLY mode you transmit on one channel for all strings, you can
bend one string normally but if you bend more than one then all the bends
become chromatic bends i.e. semitone jumps.

	When in MONO mode you transmit on six consecutive channels, one for 
each string. The default is high E->low E 1->6. Each string(channel) can be 
bent independently.

	The SGU that I have (the CASIO VZ-8M) has different modes depending on
what your instrument is. Keyboard is as per normal, guitar sets up individual
voices on the 6 channels that you specify for when your guitar is in MONO
mode. There is also a mode for wind controllers that has something to do with 
aftertouch. The idea is that the synth is set up slightly differently to 
utilise the different characteristics of the different controllers.

	The fact that the MONO/POLY switch is a little DIP switch hidden behind 
a rubber plug does make it a bit inconvenient to use. There are a number of 
these switches that control things like whether A is 440Hz or 441Hz or what 
have you and also the MIDI channel assignments. MONO/POLY is the only one 
really that you would want to change on the fly. I think that it is an omission 
on the part of CASIO. I don't think that I have the nerve hack my MG510 to put
an external switch on though. The alternative is for me to change all the 
patches that I use to be guitar mode and run with MONO. This is pretty easy 
with the VZ-8M on the individual voices but not the opmems (collection of 
voices in a performance patch). There are a few opmems set up for guitar, there 
is a very nice jazz guitar and also one with bass on EAD and vibes on GBE.

 	There is a toggle switch for controlling bending between 'normal' and 
chromatic. I find that I usually use chromatic. I'm not quite sure why but I 
find if the guitar is slightly out of tune then some of the sounds generated 
can be quite discordant, the normal guitar sound is OK though. Switching to 
chromatic does indeed mean that you don't have to be so fussy about tuning, it 
also sounds more natural for quite a number of patches. Bending notes with an 
organ patch sounds really sick.

	The only use that I have for the admittedly rather flimsy whammy bar is 
when I am in chromatic bend mode and can do really fast trills. Sounds great 
with a vibe or harpsichord patch.

	I've just bought a book called 'MIDI for Guitarists' which on 
reflection would have been OK if I knew nothing about MIDI but thanks to the 
COMMUSIC notesfile I now know more than I ever thought that I would require. It 
was also published a couple of years ago so is a little out of date. I'm 
probably being a bit too negative I wouldn't like to put anyone off as it is a 
pretty good introduction to MIDI and MIDI guitars.

	How do you guys who play gigs get on with the business of having two 
leads. Do you tape them together? The MIDI lead that I have is only 10ft long,
I don't know how long that you can get them but unless you are sitting down
this needs to be a good bit longer. I certainly won't be bothering with a
wireless setup now, seems a bit redundant if it only gets rid of one lead. 

Nigel

    I've got a handfull of 20' and 25' foot MIDI cables. (And some 6"
    suckers that are indispensible for wiring a rack.)
    
    Edd

re .20

> 	There is a toggle switch for controlling bending between 'normal' and 
>chromatic. I find that I usually use chromatic. I'm not quite sure why but I 
>find if the guitar is slightly out of tune then some of the sounds generated 
>can be quite discordant, the normal guitar sound is OK though. Switching to 

	I must confess to feeling pretty foolish now that I have solved the 
tuning problem that I referred to. I had set all my equipment to 440Hz as this 
was the default on my Yamaha digital piano which was my first piecse of MIDI 
gear.

	I'd forgotten to alter the tuning on the Casio VZ-8M. The factory
setting on this is 442Hz. So particularly with 'synthy' sounds this wasn't 
immediately noticable but as soon as you bent any notes then it started to 
sound dreadful.

	Strangely enough I had to use my guitar tuner to tune the synth!! This 
is because the setting on the SGU isn't simply a choice of 440/441/442 but to 
quote the Casio manual - 
	'The TUNE parameter allows you to set the standard A4 tuning within the
range of 417.2 to 468.3 Hz (+/-100 cents from standard) in approximately
1.6-cent increments. (This setting is approximate - use it only as a guide)' 

	I've now found that the bending & tuning is just fine. Having great fun
with a 'Cool Organ' patch mixed with normal guitar, plus a bass patch and drums
from the RA50. Makes me sound like 3/4 of the Doors.

Nigel

Yuppeeeiiaaaaeeeehh !

Last sunday I bought a used MG510 in very good condition for a very reasonable
price. This piece is really great. The sound as a guitar is good, the MIDI
tracking is acceptable, the flexibility is excellent (switchable humbucker,
built in tuner, MIDI program change etc.). 

The only real weakness is the trem. I have to tune the guitar in very short
intervals, even without using the trem. What I was wondering is, if it would be
possible to replace the trem with the one of the PG380, which is supposed to be
better. Any comments on the quality of this trem, the price and the possibility 
to do it without cutting the body ????

And those of you that are running the MG510 with an 4 op Yamaha synth, any
recommendations for patches ??? (I'm using a V50 and an EMT10, maybe soon a
U220)

	thanks

		Richard

    
    
      I used to run my MG510 through a Yamaha TX81Z and posted a few
    useful patches in Commusic, under a topic entitled "4-op something".
    You definately have to fool with the velocity sensitivity parameters
    to get a patch to respond properly.
      On my D110 is a patch called Velo-brass which has absolutely the
    best midiguitar response of any patch I've played. You can go from
    whisper quiet to a scream without touching a knob. 
      (of course i tune the second partial up a 7th for that ambient
    effect).
    
    
    RichC
    

    Does anyone know the difference between the PG380 and the MG510?
    From what I've read in adverts, the PG380 seems to be an MG510 with
    a built in synth, is this right ?  In which case is the tracking
    better ?
    
    Trev

    Re: .25
    
    By default, any system that doesn't use a MIDI Link between the
    controller and the synth will track faster.  Of course, you get limited
    to the Casio synth (same as a VZ-1) except you can't edit the patches.
    
    						Brian

     isn't a pg380 the front end to an 8xxx VAX?????
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    8*)
    -Bill

    re .25
    
      The PG380 also has a card slot for different patches.
    And a Floyd type tremelo w/rout.
    Since Casio has probably discontinued the VZ10, card availability
    is probably nil.
    
    
    
    RichC
    

    Has anyone got around to changing strings yet ?  I find the standard
    strings on the MG510 a little too thick.  Does anyone know what effect
    the thickness of the strings has on the ability of the MIDI thing to
    track the note ?
    
    Trev

    Anyone still using these?
    
    	I have been looking at getting some sort of midi guitar setup
    but the prices for the Roland stuff is just outrageous. 
    	They still produce these things?
    
    	Seems like it would do the stuff I want at a reasonable price.
    
    
    P.K.