Conference napalm::guitar

	When I hear baldness cures being advertised on all the stations
	here I know what the writing on the wall says.

	Hip hop. Get yer guitar into the hip hop sound. Else write songs
	that tell the truth about current politics. It's worse the the
	50s and Madonna is the Andrews Sisters... Put a sock on it and
	stick it out.

	Insult somebody. This rock ballad crap sucks. Get these haircuts
	out of here. They're nothing but payola fodder Girl Groups come
	back from corporate music ville.

	Hip Hop. NY Noise. Chilli Peppers. Thurson Moore. NWA.

	911 is a Joke. So is Rock 'n' Roll. Thanks for reminding me.


	U2? Don't make me puke! Roger Waters EAAAARGGGGHHH He holds all
	of the human race in contempt! Pink Floyd sucked donkey from
	Dark Side on until he left.

	Neil has earned my respect (big deal, right ;-) ).... 


	Rock & Roll has become a bleeding ad campaign for carbonated
	beverages, for crying out loud. Repudiate it soundly.


		This has been a reminder from the committee to remind
		america that art is not property.

ahhhhh what happened to the good old days!!!???


ohh, by the way,,,

Madonna is actually a turkish counter inteligence espionage agent...  Paula
Abdul's her partner... but don't tell anyone I told you...

Ya,, Madonna gets pretty lame,, I mean how many songs can you put these
words into


		"Let you body move to the music..."

I swear every new song this bimbo puts out, has those words, or similar
words in it..    Geesh, give it a rest...

but really,,,

Don't let it bug ya ,,,  you can still buy and listen to any thing
you want...  Rap is living proof that there's something for everyone.
(Stop, no flames.. I'm not bashing Rap, but for me, it's not a style of music
I can relate to.. of course seeing as I know this conference, I don't think
anyone will call me out on this..)


Don't let the comercialization fool you,, they're simply goin with the
flow...  like they have been since Elvis was a household word..

Plus, look at the bright side,, If rocks dead, then disco's fully decomposed
by now..

    Rock is traditional in the sense that alot of it is passed thru oral 
    (or recorded) sources and people learn it from the sound or record. 
    When rock is magnified under the glass like in music school ,
    it's simple. Then the mutations come! Fusion, Pop, name it.
    Real rock belongs to the 12 year old who don't know squat, the 16 year
    olds who can burn but don't read a note, the 23 year old groupie who
    dosen't know Mozart from Moses. 
    
    

   Rock has been dead since the apocryphal sighting of the pre-teenager
   exclaiming, "Look!  A Paul McCartney record.  Didn't he used to play
   with a band called 'Wings'?"

   It has become the music of the masses, and no longer that of the
   counter culture.  They're playing rock in dentist's offices, for
   Pete's sake.

   Charlie's right.  Get out there and break something.  The rules, for
   one.  Play the blues to get your soul right.  Kick some a$$.  Have
   fun, that's what it's all about.

   -- Sam

     Maybe *YOUR* Rock is dead.........
    =8vP
    Bill

re: you can still buy and listen to any thing you want... 

Not in Florida....maybe your state next?

dbii

    
    
    
    	You can thank MTV for kicking Rock and Roll in the balls when it
    was already in intensive care. Disconnect life support and let it
    die with dignity. 
    
    DonH
    
    

    Don't thank MTV, thank the people that watch it.  It's just like TV: 
    If people really didn't like the garbage on there, they wouldn't watch
    it!  So don't blame the MTV folks, they're just giving the people what
    they want.
    
    Personally, I am at least, maybe more, revolted at the ads in the
    guitar magazines.  I get the feeling leafing through them that playing
    guitar isn't an artform anymore, it's just exercise and a job.  How
    fast are your licks?  Do have all the current licks?  Is your hair
    right?  Does your band have "the look?"
    
    There's no mystery anymore.  It's not art, it's science.  And I'm left
    just as cold by it as I am by simple physics.  
    
    I'm sure that's not what everyone gets from them, but it's what I get. 
    That may not be what the people in the magazines feel about what they
    do, but it doesn't do much for me.  It makes me just want to quit
    playing altogether.
    
    Thinking about it brings me down sometimes.  It's hard enough realizing
    that I'm no virtuoso, and never will be, but it's even harder when it
    seems like so many people are just playing for the money, and virtuoso
    is all anyone cares about.  So if I'm not studying all the latest, i.e.
    I'm just trying to be ME, what I do is worthless.  I find it hard to
    take.
    
    Will

    
                            " Band of Gypsies "
    
       I started this note, just to see what kind of reactions I would get
    from other would be musicians!  And some of the replies are realy
    interesting and what I'd have to call NARROW MINDED.
       First of all, Rock'n Roll, (thank you Lord), is what the MUSICK
    BUSINESS was built on,(We Built This City), and Rock has been there
    from the start and will still be here after all the other phony balony
    bullshit is long gone! i.e. Disco!
       Like Eddie Van Halen said," You gotta realy love what you're doing,
    or forget it."  After spending 20 years playing in clubs and searching
    for that BIG BREAK, I realised that the business end of music, sucks
    more than anything else on the planet, but on the other hand, playing
    your own music in front of an audience, and hearing applause makes it
    all worthwhile, reguardless of the $$$$$$$$$MONEY$$$$$$$$$$$
       Still playing, and loving every minute of it, don't care if it's a
    $5.00 acoustic guitar or the most elaborate collection of electronics
    available, it's still a GUITAR, the greatest form of self expression on
    the planet, and to be able to do so is a gift, which most people wish
    they could do well, and Rock is probably one of the few mediams were
    you can express your musical ideas without limitations of anykind.
       Just think were Wrestle Mania would be today without Rock, or
    comedians like Sam Kennison, and how's about country ROCK, jazz ROCK,
    blues ROCK, it's endless and will always be around in one form or
    another. NEEDN'T WORRY ABOUT IT, IN THE LEAST!
    
                 " HEY, HEY, MY, MY, ROCK'N ROLL WILL NEVER DIE."

<< How fast are your licks?  Do have all the current licks?  Is your hair
<< right?  Does your band have "the look?"

Really!!! don't it make you want to just lean over and retch!!!!

Like speed, fad-licks, hair and posure are all that's noticed!!

ACK!  Sad, but more than true...

This is why, after 17 years of banging my head against a wall,
I'm done with bands and club gigs...  Not that the band experiences were'nt
good ones, cuz they were, especially the last one.

But as far as playing the club circuit-  Keep it,, for what it's worth,
it's just not worth it to me anymore...

Everything changes, but Rock and roll aint never gonna die.

	I don't know who the we is that "Built this City" it weren't
	me. I'm not interested in rock. Rock was dead before I was
	born. Disco is Rock for all I know. Give me Micky and Sylvia
	back and I'll leave you alone.

	I'm looking for rock's worst nightmare. Not rock and better. The
	folks I slagged in my last reply are the folks that made me want
	to learn how to play. Why?

	Because I'm new every morning and they weren't.

	As for guitarists of substance not playing safe - these are the
	people that I feel have begun to move beyond rock. Have you
	heard "Sonic Youth" or "Ambitious Lovers"?


	Anyway Norm, at the heart of it you and I agree. If I read your
	initial note correctly, you were lamenting the fact that Rock
	had made it to the top of the heap. When I was a kid I thought
	that rock was neat because society as a whole couldn't deal
	with it and it established a boundary for a different culture.
	Not so anymore. So I think it's time for people that have an interest
	in continuing to generate culture to move forward and part of this
	movement is to pay attention to the currently struggling forms.
	I think one of the most noble endeavors is to scrub the blues,
	back beat & double string lick junk from your style and come up
	with something original. It's not easy. Take 30 minutes a day
	and try to come up with something that ain't been done.


	Now the theme from the Simpsons - that's something. As for MTV,
	soda commercials, all of that. Yup - them 60s people got old
	they're cashing it in and sacking it away for when Dick Clark
	finaly lets the cat out of the bag and starts charging big $$$
	for his eternal youth medicine. The business end has never been
	under the control of art or even moderate amounts of reason. Don't
	forget who replaced Buddy Holly on the tour after the plane crash.

    
                             " LOVE MY GUEEETAR "
    
        No and ifs or buts about it!  I'd put the Sax a close second, or
    maybe that should be spelled Sex, 'cause even if I met an Alien Woman
    and we couldn't communicate verbally or physically for some biological
    reason, I could always pick up my gueeetar, as someone from Charlton,
    Massachusetts would call it, and communication would be instantaneous!
        Guess you could do the same with an Oboe, but you'd probably scare
    the shit out of her!       IT'S THEEEE INSTUMENT OF THE UNIVERSE!
    
                                           May The Force Be With You!
    
        

>	Now the theme from the Simpsons - that's something. 

Danny Elfman of Oingo Boingo wrote that.  He's incredibly creative and 
original.  He also did the musical score for the film Batman.

Greg

    As long as there are Marshall amps about, rock will never die!
    
    

re: .-1

Prince did only one song for "Batman", Danny Elfman arranged the soundtrack and
wrote all the incidental music.  Incidently I noticed on a TV ad that Elfman 
also did the soundtrack for the film "Dick Tracy".

re: this topic

I agree with whoever started their note with "what a bunch of pessimests".  I 
definatly have a bad attitude about the music *industry* in general, but I 
think that rock & roll is alive and well and I'm still enjoying it.  As long 
as people enjoy the music and want to hear and play it, it's alive!

This sounds a lot like that attitude that some people have that "the last 
good rock was done in the 60s".  That's fine if you want to believe that, 
but I think if you do you're missing out on a lot of really enjoyable and 
interesting music because of this mindset.  There is a lot of really good
original music being done today, probably more then ever.  It's easy to 
remember only the good music from the 60's (or whatever time period you're 
stuck in), but if you seriously think back, there was much more throw-away
music then the good stuff.  Of course, the good music has stood the test 
of time and still holds up pretty well and the junk got tossed.  The same
holds true today.

I agree that the music industry has become a monster that tends to push out a 
lot of excrement simply because they know that people will buy it.  It's 
just like most every other *business*, when people that care more about 
making money then about the product they're producing take over, it goes 
downhill for those that care more about the product.

That's not to say that there isn't good music being sold today, I don't believe
that for a minute.  You just have to find it.  These notes files really help
me in finding good new music because there are so many people out there to 
help screen it for you.

Perhaps my attitude would be different had I ever tried to make a living
out of playing music, but I haven't (and won't).  I'm aware of the reality 
of the situation and know that it's more competative and difficult to get 
into that business then I'll ever be able to handle.  That doesn't mean that 
I stop playing and enjoying it though.  I love music too much for that!

Greg

    AFTER_HOURS has its "blues is dead" note, JAZZ has its "jazz is dead"
    note, CLASSICAL_MUSIC has its "classical is dead" note -- what took you
    guys so long?

    While our notes gradually pass into the bit bucket of history, a lot of
    young players out there (some of us?) are taking a hard look at what
    came before -- "taking strength in the things that remain", "taking what
    they need and leaving the rest" -- and making it into something new,
    which doesn't have a name or an audience yet.  I'm beginning to get out
    to clubs (& basements) again, and I think I see lots of things
    percolating in areas related to rock, blues, country, funk, jazz, folk,
    classical, including nonwwestern variants that are reaching US shores.
    Speaking for myself, I just had to get out of my foxhole and out of my
    normal habits, to notice it.  Suddenly it doesn't all seem so stagnent
    anymore.    - Jay

    
    Re: .19
    
    Good reply.
    
    Face it, the "new thing" always comes up from the underground.  Like
    Elvis, the Beatles, Motown, etc.  The whole MTV thing is based on
    corporate decision making trying to set the next new trend.  It may
    work as far as sales go, but the real artistic trends will just come up
    from nowhere like they always have.  
    
    BTW, if you keep your ears open you *can* see trends in the making. 
    The current folk scare that produced Tracy Chapman and Suzanne Vega,
    for example.  I have tapes of Vega that were done back in 85, long before
    "Luka" went top 10.  I saw her perform live in a church basement.  And
    I had heard Tracy Chapman a good two or three years before "Fast Car"
    arrived on MTV.   
    
    The people who are going to overturn the industry are out there.  Stop
    buying your CDs at Lechmere's.  Pick up OPTION magazine.  Go to venues
    that you never have been to before.  Set up your FM radio presets in the
    88-92 band where non-commercial radio lies.  
    
    							Brian

   With that perspective, I must agree with the last few.  It's not that
   "Rock is Dead", it's more like "Commercial Music is Stagnant, and I'm
   Getting Hit Over the Head with It."

   Funny this should come up.  I've recently been catching up on some old
   GFtPM mags, and was reading the Jack Bruce interview in the May issue.
   (What an opinionated b*stard, BTW...  :-))  He makes an interesting
   statement though (paraphrased):  The music INDUSTRY has nothing to
   do with MUSIC.  As a matter of fact, the music business doesn't WANT
   good music because if a band turns out a great album they have to
   follow it up with an even better one, or turn the fans off.  So they
   look for mediocre bands that can be cloned and perpetuate the garbage.
   An interesting perspective, anyway.  Though he also refers to Cream
   as a "successful jazz band".  :-}

   -- Sam

(It's not dead, just smells bad... ha!  you slay me..!!)



well this cowboy is on a nostalgia trip these days...

I've replaced many of my old favorite albums with shiny new CDs...

To hell with MTV, VH1, Strawberries, WAAF!!!!


Ahh, last night,,, Black Sabbath's "Paranoid" Came in the mail,,
prior to that Aqualung,, Think as A Brick, Eat-a-Peach, Leftoverture,
I could go on.. 



My wife is ready to strangle me and BMG but screw it,

Funny thing,, That Paranoid Album,,, Sounded much better when I was 14

									{8^]


I guess it's all in where your head is...

And I added a note ROCK is DEAD part 2 that says just that...

>   was reading the Jack Bruce interview in the May issue.
>   (What an opinionated b*stard, BTW...  :-))  
    
    I'd say with his track record, he's entitled to some opinions...
    8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    Just a thought....I'm suspecting most of the folks replying in here
    are, eh, "mature"....I'm staring at 35 in two months, myself.  I think
    many of my generation have sadly realized that rock music hasn't
    "grown" with them.  Thus, all these stupid oldies stations.   Too bad
    the darn clubs can't have shows starting at 8 and ending at 11, maybe
    we old farts could get out more often.
    
    See y'all at the Rat this weekend  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    
    						Brian

    One thing I can surely vouch for is that "Classic Rock", or better put
    "Old Folks Boogie" in -1, is still alive and well.  I jammed with a
    band last month that delivered the classic format to a bunch of high
    school kids, and they rocked pretty hard to that too.  True, some of us 
    mature types may not have grown with the current styles, but the pulse
    is still as strong as ever.  
    
    Rock isn't dead - it's just at a low point of the cycle.  Take rap
    music (please !).  In the 70's, this beat was known as "disco".  Now
    it's new and improved, and sampled.  And there are a few new bands
    going back to the roots of rock I guess.  'Course most of these guys
    probably don't remember what these roots really are - Black Crowes come
    to mind here.  A bunch of young guys that sound a LOT like early
    Stones, Humble Pie, etc., and still probably spend some of their gig
    money on Stridex ...
    
    Naaah, it ain't dead - it's a chameleon - the background changed, so
    rock changed ...
    
    Scary

    
    > probably still spend some of their gig money on Stridex.
    
    yuk yuk yuk.  

                                                       
    Rock will never die - what will happen is boring farts will 
    grow old and it'll be too loud for 'em, and they're start slagging
    it off 8^)           

    Hey,
    
    Rock-n-Roll is somthing the Rocks you and Rolls you. It doesn't matter
    if it's Rap, Metal, Blues....whatever. What moves the Soul is
    Rock-n-Roll.
    
    If you say Rock is DEAD you Listen to the Radio and watch MTV to much.
    Explore and you'll see it's alive and kick'in.
    
    -JR

    
    I kind of understand what is trying to be presented....
    
    Since starting to learn how to play I decided to *listen* to alot of
    diffrent styles...Things I noticed are that some of the stuff you hear
    today Robert Johnson did in 1936...sme of the heavy metal all have the
    *same* riffs,I was watching this thing on MTV last night "the rise and
    fall of western civilation" they were interviewing up-in-comers and
    oes been around for awhile Aerosmith,Alice Cooper,Ozzy,and it seems
    what goes around comes around,also there are only so many notes on a
    guitar,and so many ways to process the music,there's a show on HBO
    were they only use non-electric instruments, and judging by the
    comments that probably the way things are heading some of the HM uses
    acoustic intros...and sme of the bands are going to Les Pauls or
    Hollow-bodys,so I don't think it's dead it's rising from the ashes in
    another form,IMO
    
    
                          Kevin

	When I say rock & roll is dead I mean that I've heard about as
	many ways to rehash a I IV V as I care to in my life. Maybe
	it would be more correct to say that Rock & Roll is a Frankenstein
	Zombie from Hell and no matter how you try to get out in front
	of it's lumbering path, it's gonna get you anyway.

	Of course Rock did twitch nicely on the Buzzcocks `89 tour.

Rock is not dead.  You're just outgrowing it.


Bob

    
    Not to mention that the ole I, IV, V still sounds good to me.  We 
    need variety tho'.  When I get burned out on rock/blues, I listen to
    a lot of different jazz stuff.  After about a couple of months of that, 
    I'm back!

Actaully I don't think rock is dead. It lives in every bar/nightclub where the 
band blows off the MTV drudge and just parties down...of course you don't
always get hired back...


dbii

	Maybe not dead. The power of Rock as a voice has been severely
	stiffled. My Mom grew up with Rock. I want something harsher.
	Rock is old fart music in my book - they way a lot of you older
	fellers probably viewed yer parent's music.

	If I can make music that scares the living daylights out of
	folks that think that bands like "Damn Yankees" have anything
	left to say, I'll be having a good day.

	If I can put together a coherent bit of slamming noise with an out
	atonal rap track that speaks to 14 & 15 year olds and makes most
	rockers yell "TURN THAT GARBAGE DOWN" then I'm strolling the golden
	road.

	Thunk

    I knew it...I figured once parents (like me) liked rock, something new
    would have to come along.
    
    Unfortunately I haven't heard any "new, alternative" music that
    *scared* me.  Just bored me.
    
    						Brian 

    
    The classic I,IV,V progression will never die. Thats what most old-time
    rock 'n roll tunes where built on, nowadays, thats what a lot of
    cool bands are going back to. The days of everyone filling their
    complex songs with diminshed or harmonic minor scales are soon to be
    over.              
    
    Rock will never die ! 8*)                                        

    It's not dead.  It's just suffering from a crowd of musicians
    who insist on "playing their makeup and wearing their guitars".
    
    IMO, real talent shines through, be the person a ROCKer or
    something else.  I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't
    think they can kill rock by making it inane.  Even if rock
    is music for the masses, somebody somewhere is gonna be doing
    something worth listening to.  They'll just be harder to find
    (which makes it tough for you guys with families and kids who
    can't stay up past 11).  
    
    Maybe we should all dig a cave and hide out until it passes??
    
    --CJ--
    

	Yer a guitarist?

	Anyway. I saw the Buddy Holly Story with Gary Busey the other
	night. A white guy rocking the Apollo. That's Rock 'n' Roll.
	If I can't undercut the class/sex/color/sexpref boundaries with
	what I'm calling r'n'r then I'm just a poseur. Of course this
	may require that I exacerbate AGE differences.....

    
    	I don't think Rock is dead, I just think it's covers more ground
    than some of us would like it to.
    
    	I think since Day One, Rock 'n' Roll has always been at war with
    itself. You can make the case that Rock was originally made by/for
    "outsiders"-- alienated, rejected kids of the era who related to the 
    rebellion expressed in the music.
    
    	But you can also make the arguement that Rock, like Folk music
    before it, has always been the music for the masses; expressing the
    needs, wants & desires of the common man, the people on the streets.
    Rock was never meant to be for the elite, but to appeal to the common
    hopes, dreams & fears of us all.
    
    	Perhaps there's a thread that links the two views, though... maybe
    society's "outsiders" just want to be accepted by the masses; maybe 
    hoping to find acceptance thru Rock.
    
    	To me, Rock has always appealed to me for a mix of both reasons,
    and I've always considered myself a fan first & musician second, even
    though I've been playing & gigging over 10 years. 
    
    	Rock has reached a point where, in order to be the music of "the
    masses", it encompasses such a large & wide range of styles, ideas, 
    and situations that none of us can possibly relate to, or even like, it all.
    For most of us white folks, Rap seems to have very little relevance & 
    is totally alien (in fact, we ought to be listening to what Rap is
    saying, because in many cases, we ARE the subject matter). Yet Rap is
    a vital form of expression for it's participants, it is alive, it's
    moving & changing, it is the Folk music of a whole generation. 
    
    	In turn, each style of Rock speaks to SOMEBODY; each style fills
    a niche for someone... no matter how trite or inane the music may be.
    Granted, Damn Yankees may really suck the big one, but to some kid out
    there, "Coming Of Age" is probably the most important song in his (or
    her) life. Seems like a sad commentary to many of us, but if the music
    is filling a need, if it's moving somebody, who are we to judge it's
    value? If it makes somebody happy, why knock it? After all, it's great
    when a song has a message, but the primary goal of Rock music has
    always been to just have a good time & be happy. Sure, our goals can
    reach much higher & there's so much that can be accomplished thru Rock,
    but ultimately, people need to feel good.
    
    	So, Rock is now loaded full of genres that clash & conflict, and
    we question the validity of the format: Is Rock Dead? Has it been
    killed by Record Execs, Mainstreaming, Radio Overplay, Pandering, and
    Commercialization? Has it been so watered down that it has no real
    significance? 
    
    	If Rock died this way, it would have died 30 years ago; after the 
    inital Rock explosion in the '50's, after the death of Buddy Holly, the 
    scandals of Jerry Lee Lewis & Chuck Berry, and Elvis' induction into the 
    Service, the music industry scrambled to save face, tried to make Rock
    "respectable" and manufactured the Teen Idol scene with the likes of
    Fabian, Frankie Avalon, and the slew of tame, safe teenager-in-love
    songs of the late '50's/early '60's that are now considered "Golden
    Oldies".
    
    	But anyone who has even read about the British explosion around
    '64, anyone who has ever heard the sounds being recorded in '67, knows
    that Rock was very much alive and well, and no attempt by the music
    industry was going to stop this monstosity called Rock from barrelling
    thru with no one at the helm (mixed metaphors or what?). Certainly
    Rock is under no greater restraint now than it was then.
    
    	And as far as breaking any new ground in Rock, I'm not sure what
    else is left that could really be called "new". In fact, I'm not sure
    there's been any truly ground-breaking "new" music in years. You can
    trace the Sex Pistols back thru The New York Dolls to groups like the
    MC5, and I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you'd find some band in
    the '50's that was even more outrageous for their day. That doesn't
    change the fact that the Sex Pistols are the single most significant
    group of the 1970's, but it does illustrate that there is only so much
    ground you can cover & most of it has been walked before. Sonic Youth
    has roots in everything from John Lennon's "Two Virgins" to The 13th
    Floor Elevators, even if they don't realize (or admit) it. 
    
    	I also don't agree that the I-IV-V 12-bar blues form has been
    worked to death. Then again, I'm a less-is-more kinda guy; to my ears,
    B.B King kicks Steve Vai's butt as a soloist. But I can't help but feel
    that it takes real talent to speak volumes with just one note; the 
    master will say with one note what the unable will say with 10. There
    is a basic truth that all that there is to be said can be said within
    those 3 chords if only you have the ability. Like some kind of Holy Trinity,
    the I-IV-V progression is the crux of all modern music, from Blues to 
    Country to Folk to Rock.
    
    	Rock IS alive & well, just because we may not like much of what's
    out there doesn't justify us condemning it & all it's listeners. That's
    why they make chocolate & vanilla.
    
    	If anything's going to kill Rock 'n' Roll, it's gonna be long-winded
    diatribes like this from the likes of me. So, like it's been said before,
    F**k Art, Let's Dance!
    
    
    
    
    Nobody asked, It's just my opinion.
    
    Brad Page