Conference napalm::guitar

    Well, early VH had no fx on his sound other than a TON of reverb!
    
    The latter (Van Hagar) he has gone to using a ton of chorus on 
    his guitar, but the SOUND is still 90% from his hands.

    Ever since 5150 he's also been using a harmonizer in stereo.
    
    That is, he runs the regular signal to one side, and a very slightly
    detuned signal to the other to get a sortof wider spacial effect.
    
    My rig is stereo and while I'm a big believer in stereo, I must say
    that on stage it's mostly for my benefit.  In a typical stage situation
    you can't get the speakers far enough apart for anyone in the audience
    to get the stereo effect, and of course, PA's are almost exclusively
    mono.
    
    	db

Sounds to me like he's using a little flange on his early stuff...

(See Atomic Punk, Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love etc...)

Plus a ton pumped up Marshalls...

jc

    Oh, in the EARLY days he had a pedal board that had an Echoplex, an MXR
    Flanger, and an MXR Phase 90 on it...the phase 90 is the Atomic Punk
    sound, and the flanger is what you hear on Ain't Talkin' and You're no
    Good (off the 2nd lp).  He used the Phase 90 on a lot of solos (like
    Eruption), actually.
    

    I'm surprised no one mentioned his variac-modified Marshall. It has
    been mentioned in this file that he drives his Marshalls with a
    variac (variable AC power supply) which forces the tubes to run
    very hot. This drives the amp into total saturation beyond what
    a stock Marshall can do.
    
    Mark
    

    -1
    
    That's the other side of the coin, but other people have Variac'd
    Marshalls and don't sound a think like him...
    
    I still say its the hands...

    What's he doing with his hands then?  I've read interviews where EVH
    says someone else can play through his rig and not sound like him at
    all.
    
    Mike

    
    >What's he doing with his hands then?  I've read interviews where EVH
    >says someone else can play through his rig and not sound like him at
    >all.
    
    
    	If I ever played through his rig, I'd sound so different from
    	him that it'd be downright frightening.
    
    	8^)
    
    							GTI
    

re: What's he doing with his hands then...

At the risk of sounding condescending (which I don't mean to be), he's 
playing the guitar.  Naturally, he plays with his own personal touch and 
feel.  That's what Buck's talking about.

I know that if I play through J.s rig or Wills rig, I don't sound like them, 
even if we play the same lick.  If they play through mine, they don't sound 
like me (thank goodness).

Regardless of whether he variac-ed his old Marshalls (I understand he no 
longer does that anyway), that's only one small part of his sound.  Seems 
to be that there's plenty of equipment on the market today flexable enough
to give you a tone very similar to that without cooking the paint off a nice
Marshall in the process.

I always wondered how many amps he blew up doing that...   8^)

Greg

    That's phrasing folks .... Eddie's style is reckless a lot of times,
    but he has a unique way of phrasing that covers it up.  A true electric
    guitar pioneer ...
    
    
    				Scary

    
    RE; -.1
    
    I agree to a certain degree, Scary. 
     
    Some other things to consider...
    (Probably old news to everybody, but let me have my moment ;-) )
    
    How about the timing of your pick?  If you hammer with your left hand
    before you pick, that'll sound different than someone who hammers and
    picks **simultaneously**. Also if you pick a milisec BEFORE you fret
    the note?  
    
    Do you pick every note?  Or hammer half, pick half?
    
    Or how about where you're placing your left hand fingers on the fret 
    board; how close to the frets?  
    
    Pick attack angle; all **FOUR** directions?  
    
    How about the density of flesh in your finger tips?  
    
    How about your body weight?
    
    The contact point between the guitar and your body?
    
    How many times Ed make love to his wife Val?(intensity of his playing
    the next day 8) )...
    
    Ed used to wind his own pickup which was basically Gibson PAF rewound
    and dipped in parafin wax(in an interview I read, he said he destroyed
    alot of good pickups by letting it sit in hot wax too long)
    
    Ed has his pickup screwed right to the wood of the body without the
    pickup ring on it.
    
    
    I could go on for days listing all the possibilities that can make a
    difference in tone, so instead of trying to figure out how someone 
    gets their tone, and becoming one of the many EVH clones, why not 
    find the tone that *YOU* really like(not one that someone listening is 
    going to say, "Wow, dude, you sound just like EVH!" to), and develop 
    that sound?
    
    I also like(d) EVH tone a lot and tried real hard to get that, and also
    George , Ahem!(Greg?), Lynch, and at one point gave up trying to get those 
    tones.  Lynch used mod'd Marshalls and I have Mesa Boogie and I have 
    Lynch's tone(not playing ability, but *tone*).  As far as I know, I don't
    share a single equipment in common with George??? 
    
    
    Well, that should be enough, I guess...
    
    J-Dot

    I disagree as well Van Halen is THE most overrated guitarist alive
    today!  
    
    Ok...IMHO.
    
    He's a good rhythm player, and a flashy lead player, but he is NOT god
    for god's sake!

    Ed is OK. I've tried mounting the pickup right to the wood and it does
    make a little difference, but not much. 
     I think Clapton is THE most overrated guitarist in History. 

RE: -.1 Clapton

Yeah, I agree, and if I hear that stupid song off his 'new' (or is it
Derek And The Dominoes revisited for the 40th time?) album, I'LL
SCREAM !  Every damn morning I gotta wake up to that stuff...

IMHO,
jc

PS - Sorry Steve + Alan...But I just *HAD* to say that...

Aaahhhhhhh...I feel better already.

    Re: Clapton
    
    OK, now you've gone and done it  8^)  8^)
    
    I don't know how old you guys are, but in 1967 when Cream debuted,
    Clapton was a real breath of fresh air.  He was the first rock
    guitarist to have such a firm grasp of the blues and was able to place
    it into a rock context.  Go listen to rock guitar solos before 1967. 
    Yeah, once might say the Hendrix, Beck, Page, etc. were just as good,
    and I'll agree.  I'll also agree that EC has made a ton of crap albums,
    he's been a consistent disappointment to me on LP for many years.  But
    in the right situation, the man can play with a depth that few other
    rockers can approach.  IMHO.
    
    OK, one more statement: Those who do not study history are doomed to
    repeat it.  It's as true in music as it is in any other aspect of life.
    
    							Brian

    the first guitarist to have such a firm grasp of the blues and be able
    to place it in a rock context...
     
    I rest my case! :-)
      
     I love raggin on old Clapton, heee heee 

    re .15
    
    Amen. I'd like to see anyone who says Clapton is overrated 
    "cut heads" with him on a I-IV-V...
    
    The same case could be made for Van Halen. Their first 
    album came out when the Bee Gees were the "in" thing.
    I seriously wonder what guitar solos would sound like
    today if VH never came along...And I'm not exactly
    their biggest fan.
    
    Whether you like them or not, I don't think you can
    deny the influence of either Clapton or Van Halen.
    
    -Tom

    Gee Coop, I guess if you feel the need to apologize for putting Clapton
    down, you must think that I care what you think.....agagagagagaga
    
    Steve (yuk)  ;)

    >Amen. I'd like to see anyone who says Clapton is overrated 
    >"cut heads" with him on a I-IV-V...
    
    Me....me...
    
    >The same case could be made for Van Halen. Their first 
    >album came out when the Bee Gees were the "in" thing.
    >I seriously wonder what guitar solos would sound like
    >today if VH never came along...
    
    Guitar solos would sound a f*** of a lot more melodic and thoughtful if
    Van Headache never came along!
    
    VH is the king of "Cheeesy, constant-structure" licks!  It don't have
    to be diatonic with Van Halen, it just has to be fast!
    And I'm not exactly
    

Obviously he did something right, cuz he's got lots of fans...I mean he *was* 
definately ahead of his time...Once...Jimminy Christamas, that was *20* years 
ago !  And he *was* a pioneer...Definately...

How can you compare the guy to Satriani, Yngwie, Nuno (etc...etc...)

- He's slow (slowhand right?)
- He's got no stage presence,flash,pizazz
- He's got no tricks (vibrato just doesn't do it nowadays...)
- Hasn't done anything new in 20 years...
- Silly lyrics

I'd say it's my age, *but* I used to really get into it...Until I bought
my MXR Distortion+... ;)  And I still like some of his stuff (Bell Bottom 
Blues is a fave, as is a lot of Cream stuff)...

I don't mean to step on anyones toes...Maybe you can help me understand....

jc (Slipping into his asbestos suit ;)

    "Good" Rhythm Guitarist? Name one person who even comes close.
    
    							John.
    ( who thinks rhythm counts for alot )

    EC can still play a slow blues as good as anybody on earth.
    
    -Dave

    
    
    
    	Yeah, I like listening to the sax solo (hard times from Journeyman)
    that kind of melts into guitar...  
    
    
    Steve

    Clapton was a breath of fresh air
    Van Halen "    "     "   "     "
    Satriani  "    "     "   "     "
    
    Who's next?  Probably someone we least suspect.  The last 2 up there
    came on the scene like a storm!
    
    Mike

RE: .21

1.  James Hetfield (Metal)
2.  Randy Rhodes   (Metal)
3.  Toy Caldwell   (Blues)

Shall I continue ?

And Steve, you'll never see my side, and I know you don't care for what 
I think about Clapton.  ;)   It's impossible to talk to people about their
heros, cuz they shut you off.  Seems to me that most Clapton fans are
pretty narrow minded...There are exceptions though...I know Alan Starr likes
Metallica AND Clapton (SRV etc..etc..)...Even Steve likes the Scorpians.  ;)

Rock Of Ages,
jc

    Next thing you know, SRV gets panned because he doesn't do any
    mixolydian variations of pentatonic majors transposed to the sixth
    degree. I also think that if everyone hot rodded their amps so no one
    could tell the difference between picking and hammer ons, the music
    industry would soon become a wasteland.
    
    In some ways it's really unfair to compare guitarists who are really
    trying to acheive different things. Music is much more than just being
    able to execute a certain riff. I've got nothing but respect for any
    guitarist who can get something more out of a guitar than anyone else,
    and that may or may not be the number of notes. The industry is
    anything but a narrow path and glory to the guitarists who blaze new
    ones.
    							John.

    Other ground breakers:
    
    Jeff Beck
    Edge
    Hendrix
    George Harrison
    Andy Summers
    Brian May
    
    You can't put one in front of the other.
    
    							John.

    re .19
    
    jc,
    
    I don't think anyone's trying to compare Clapton to Satriani
    or Yngwie. It would be pointless. Apples and oranges.
    It's like comparing a '55 Chevy to a Ferrari Testarossa.:-) 
    Sure the Ferrari goes faster and has more trick features,
    but some people might say the Chevy has more personality.
    
    I think Clapton puts alot of emotion into his playing (at
    least he does live). To me that makes up for his lack of 
    tricks, speed, etc. No frills, no BS, just good solid 
    blues playing. I guess he's just not your cup o' tea.
    
    re .18
    
    Buck, you're a braver man than myself. :-) I wouldn't go 
    near the man with a guitar. He's got 20 some odd years 
    of playing under his belt, and is still a pretty ferocious 
    blues player in a live setting.
    
    Regarding Van Halen, I guess I don't know enough about
    music theory to realize how repetetive his solos are.
    I hope I never do. To me his solos sound spontaneous and
    slightly reckless. I like that quality. I also disagree
    about all his stuff being fast...
    
    -Tom

    re.-1
    
    	Aw cmon Tom, let's go jam with EC,no big deal....
    
    

	Thurston Moore & Lee Renaldo.

	I hated VH for years cuz I though it sounded too much like the
	organ at church - advancing guitar? he took it back 300 years.

	EC? Forget him. Lou Reed is the real slow hand.

OK, I sid to myself "don't get into this arguement again - there's no way 
anyone can 'win'". But I have to make just a couple comments! 8^)

re: .20 (Coop)

> He's slow (slowhand right?)
> He's got no stage presence,flash,pizazz
> He's got no tricks (vibrato just doesn't do it nowadays...)

Ah, but IMO none of these define talent - or else I'd think that Yngwie 
(speed) and CC Deville (tricks and flash) were guitar gods.....

> Hasn't done anything new in 20 years...
> Silly lyrics

Only his last two albums have been fairly commercial. Prior to that, he's 
recently done various things from pop to blues to laid-back countryish stuff. 
Not all great, but at least its different (although I'll admit that his solos 
over any of the genres are fairly similar).

And, more importantly - get beyond the radio stuff. There are some great songs 
on the album, but its usually not the single (as is the case in most bands). 
On 'Behind the Sun' check out "Just Like A Prisoner" or "Same Old Blues" or 
"Behind the Sun". On 'August' check out "Holy Mother". On the latest, check 
out "Old Love". There are some nice cuts buried on his albums (usually the 
slow burners)....

re: me liking Metallica and Clapton

Well, I'm strange anyways!  8^)

Alan S.

    
    OK, who was it that's cuttin' up on one of my biggest influence and
    one of my over-all favorite guitarist?!?!?!?!?!  I believe you just 
    declared war! ;-)
    
    All I can say is that at least EC and EVH don't rely on chord/scale 
    structure to give his solos feel!  Ahem!  Hint, Hint!  8^)
    
    J-Dot

    it still amazes me the grandiose terms people aply to clapton.
    Best blues on earth? You mean to tell me if you took all the guitar
    players on earth lined em up and let em rip ol EC would win? HA!
    Both Clapton, and  Eddie Van Bertonelli have been shoved down your
    throats by Radio TV and Record companies eager to profit the most from
    the least.  No Way are they the best anything, except in regards to
    commercial potential.
    
    I mean like if these guys are so good why do they need a pick?:-) 

    re .33
    
    yeah, I mean if you took all the fluffy-haired metal guys and
    stood them in a line next to EC and asked them to play slow blues,
    he'd blow them away. Maybe he wouldn't play as many notes, but 
    he'd get more feeling across. There really aren't a whole lot
    of BLUES guitarists. Lots of ROCK guitarists who play blues 
    sometimes, but not lots of real blues players. And EC is still
    among the giants of the blues players (when he feels like it).
    
    -Dave

Clapton compares to Harleys...

;)

Harleys are old, low-tech, slow, noizey, and have a few 
faithful followers...

Some people like 'em.  Can't condemn them for that.
Why ?  Beats the heck outta me.  ;)

Try to get a Harley guy with tatoos, leather  and a long beard 
on my Honda...  !

Now, Satch is like a Honda Hurricane.  High Tech, Fast.

BTW - I always seem to get in fights with Harley fans too.  But... I've ridden
(and broken/repaired) many Harleys. ;)

Now, what I really can't understand is that a couple of my bestest buddies
HATE Harleys and Love Clapton !  Freud would flip !  I'll stick with
my bastardized metal, and go back to work.  ;)

    Ok Cooper, you've gone too far now!
    
    Raggin on Clapton is one thing, but LEAVE HARLEY's ALONE!
    
    H-D Forever!
    Buck

I haven't heard Clapton play the blues in a LONG-LONG time.
                             ^^^^^^^^^     

About 15 years.

Bad Love ain't a *bad* song, but that other one they play is sickening.

RE: .25

<<  1.  James Hetfield (Metal)
<<  2.  Randy Rhodes   (Metal)
<<  3.  Toy Caldwell   (Blues)

<<  Shall I continue ?
    
    
    WHY? Seems like the point was missed completely! Without E.C.
    we'd probably still be playing with a "wound G string". After all,
    it was Eric Clapton that started using plain G strings. 
    
    What you're missing here is the fact that today's players learned
    from a source and hopefully alot of sources to get "their" style.
    E.C. has had an effect on music both from the '60's to today. Whether
    or not *you* accept that is your choice. Cutting heads? Give it a rest! 
    It's comments like that that say more to me than the actual comment. 
    I respect alot of musicians out there, past, present and I'm sure the 
    ones in the future. How anyone can try to compare Clapton and Eddie
    is beyond me and then try to justify their opinion??? Nuf said.

    The way *I* (and 99% of musicians I've worked with since I was 16
    yrs. old) see it, you have two choices as a musician;

    1.) Listen to everything, respect it for what it is, learn from it
        and grow because you're open minded.
    
    2.) Listen to a narrow band of material and stagnate.
    
    Your choice. Honesty usually works best in life and I say what
    I feel. I also play the same way. Right from the heart guys.
    
<<  RE: It's impossible to talk to people about their heros, cuz they 
<<      shut you off.  Seems to me that most Clapton fans are pretty 
<<      narrow minded...
    
    I disagree...  I'm allowed to cause this is America!  ;^) I can't
    stand Metallica, and Mega Death! Their music doesn't say anything
    to me. Their lyrics are mostly pure crap, BUT I listen to them on
    occasion and I don't complain about them and it's above all *my
    opinion*! You don't see me flaming on those who *don't* see my point 
    of view. I repeat, I listen to everything, cause in everything there
    is something that can be learned. Nobody know's everything, that is
    what's so interesting! You can either challenge yourself, or not
    bother, cause sheesh...  you know it already. <---<<  *just a figure
    of speech*.
    
    NOTE: This reply was not intended to hurt anyones feelings. If so,
          I apologize. It was more to open the minds of musicians so
          they may not be so quick to turn off a valuable resource...
    
                                       ...the rest of the world.
        
                                                                
    		Rock On,
    			Fred

    
    >yeah, I mean if you took all the fluffy-haired metal guys and
    >stood them in a line next to EC and asked them to play slow blues,
    >he'd blow them away.
    
    	Oh, really?  Ever see the movie "Crossroads", with Steve Vai
    	playing the blues stuff?
    
    	I wish EC would hop onto a Harley and ride off the face of the
    	earth, with all the other washed-up guitarists following on
    	their own Harleys.  THAT'S cause to celebrate!!
    
    	8^)
    
    							GTI
    

    
    Unwound 3rd strings go back to the vihuella in 1500, even before that.
    Clapton used them because he didn't have the technique to handle the
    heavier gauges, I would summize.
    What about Leadbelly, Muddy Waters, these guys are all dead from old
    age. Clapton is BOGUS because he claims ( or perhaps his fans claim )
    to be such an innovator, but he just stole a few licks from a few
    obscure poor black americans and promoted ( or allowed himself )
    to be promoted as god. 
     Bogus Blues. 
    
    Gosh, I better calm down and sqay he plays OK. But God he ain't.                                                  
    
    

    duh Mr Moderator What IS all this stuff about Claptrap DOING in the Van
    Halen note, AnyWay?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    
    RE: -.1
    (Imagine my hands over my ears)
    
    
    "I'm not listening to you. I'm not listening to you. I'm not listening
    to you.  I'm not listening to you.  I'm not listening to you......."
    
    ;-)  Just kidding...
    
    You're right, it is pure opion, and people do forget to read some of
    these as just an opinion(not a right one, but 8^)  ).  
    
    But, however...
    
    
    
    		III	MMM     MMM   HHH  HHH     OOOOO
    		 I	  MM   MM      H    H     O     O
    		 I	  M M M M      H    H     O     O
    		 I        M  M  M      HHHHHH     O     O
    		 I 	  M     M      H    H     O     O
    		 I	  M     M      H    H     O     O
    		III	MMM     MMM   HHH  HHH     OOOOO   ....
    
    
    
    Neo-classical and Harleys ROOOOLLLLZZZZ!!!
    
    
    
    Only until he's passed up by Bluesman and a Honda VFR!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Which is not hard considering Harleys are broke down more often than
    they're running!
    
    J-Dot	
    

    I skipped about 25 or so replies once I noticed Buck slamming EVH
    again .... doesn't really make a sh*t if "you" happen to like him or
    not, Eddie made a contribution, whether folks deem it positive or not.
    
    So why don't you folks digress BACK to the topic of Eddie Van Halen's
    tone/gear and leave the bashing (Eric Clapton's too) to mail or
    something.  I understand SOAPBOX is still open if you're in the mood.
    
    				8^) x *.*;*
    
    Scary

    Scary,
    
    Got up a little early, did we?   |)
    
    Good point, and well said; thank you.
    
    Steve

    
    RE; .43...Woops!  Took too long typing!  Make .43 in RE to .38...
    
    J-Dot

    well I can see this topics no fun anymore

    Re: .39
    
    The whole point of what Steve Vai did in "Crossroads" was that he was
    all flash and no soul.  If you think that what he did was great blues,
    I suggest you spend two months locked in a room with a stereo and a
    copy of "The Best of Muddy Waters".
    
    Re: Clapton stealing licks
    
    EC, unlike, say, Jimmy Page, has been scrupulous in acknowledging his
    sources.  That's a pretty low blow.  As far as "bogus blues",
    remember that Cream, D&D, etc. were not trying to be blues bands, so
    "bogus" doesn't enter into it.  
    
    Re: narrow mindedness
    
    I found your remark that most people who like EC are narrow-minded was
    below the belt.  Talk about sweeping generalizations.  
    
    The bottom line:
    
    Like it or not, if you play rock guitar today, you owe a debt to Eric
    Clapton the same way you owe a debt to Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley (did you
    think the Dead invented that rhythm?), Hendrix...the list goes on.  The
    man came on the scene, and changed it forever.  We'll see how many
    of today's hot sh*ts we can remember in 2010, OK?
    
    
    							Brian
    
    P.S. So how *does* Eddie get that sound? 

    I don't owe Clapton anything.
    I do owe eddie, and since Mr bertenelli was a clapton fan, 
    I'm not paying.  What is derivitive in EVH that clearly comes from the
    clap? All I can think of is the opening chords of PANAMA,
    they resemble Cocaine to me. Might be more.

.48

I did say their were exceptions.  Not all Clapton fans are narrow minded.
But a lot are.  A lot of metal heads are narrow minded too.

I'm wierd.  I listen to and (try) to play is all.  From Wagner to Clapton 
to MegaDeth and Metallica...And Da Blues.  Ask Bulldawg, he saw me
play the Beatles !  And people were watchin' !!

jc (Who sez: nothin' personal.  I like to stir feces once in a while >:^)

    
    Think about it, tho.  Once upon a time, we were all wearing bell bottom
    pants, polyester clothes, and jamming to KC and the Sunshine Band.
    Admit it, you did, too!
    
    And lo-and-behold!  Come eddie comes out with VH album!  Sure there
    were bands like Steve Miller Band, Styx, and so forth, but they were
    not the same guitar oriented band as Van Halen *was*!  Who else was 
    acitvely involved in using harmonic screams, whammy bar dives, finger
    tapping, using the finger board like a keyboard, etc, etc?  Not too
    many!  Who got the listener's ears away from disco?  I'm sorry, guys, 
    Randy Rhodes was good, but he didn't change things as much as EVH did.
    
    At the same time, anyone that comes out with innovative ideas/styles 
    deserves some credit, whether you like him or not.
    Randy Rhodes deserves a lot for bringing classical into rock genre and
    NOT Yng-yang Buttsteen!  Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, etc for bringing 
    blues into rock genre and EVH for re-lighting that torch.  How about
    those that brought in reggae, jazz, bohemian or whatever! 
    
    If there wasn't VH, what would the guitar playing be like these days?
    All neo-classical?  Yuck!  I do like listening to Bach and Roll time to 
    time, but I like having my variety!  And I like arguing about it in the
    notes file ;-), it makes my day go by faster!  
    This world would be very boring if we all liked the same stuff, if I 
    have something constructive to say about a person, I'll say it.  If I 
    want to enlighten someone about something they might be missing, I'll 
    say it.  But I will not try to beat someone over their heads with it.  
    I'll listen to almost anyone about anything, but don't expect me to 
    keep my mouth shut, I will give you my opinion AFTER I hear & CONSIDER 
    what you have said.  If I don't like someone that the topic is about, 
    I'll stay out of it.  I might drop an occasional YAWN or two, but that's 
    in jest.  Let's not get too bloody with our opinions, guys!
    
    
    This reply is all IMHO!
    
    J-Dot

I have and idea:

$ notes
notes>open guit
set mod
set note/title="Bash note:  Clapton vs. The long hairs" 1779.0
set nomod
next unseen
exit
notes>exit
$lo

Have a nice day !

"See" y'all Monday,

jc

    
    What a drag it has been reading this topic...

    I feel responsible for the Clap trap bashing, sorry dudes.
    Maybe they've been playing 1 too many soft rock tunes on the radio here
    and forcing me to listen against my will or I've been in a cage too
    long. ( I'll try to aviod bashing Gibsons, just don't get me started
    :-)
    
    ALOT of the unique tone produced by Eddie the Bertinelli is the result
    of produceing the note with the flesh  rather than the pick.
    Tapping for example. And going back and forth between the pick and
    the skin is another characteristic.
    
    i wanted 6 cabs at one time, 1 for each string, but ......
    
    

>Harleys are old, low-tech, slow, noizey, and have a few 
>faithful followers...
    
    Hey Coop, from what I hear, they're in the shop more often than not
    also!
    
    Mike

>    Think about it, tho.  Once upon a time, we were all wearing bell bottom
>    pants, polyester clothes, and jamming to KC and the Sunshine Band.
>    Admit it, you did, too!
    
    Man are you old! 

	KC and the Sunshine Band?

	When VH appeared I was listening to Johnny Thunders and Mick
	Ronson, Todd Rundgren and Steve Howe OH let's not forget John McL.
	and Zappa.

	Poor tired Eric. He's worse than Robert Plant. I do think that
	most of the Guitar heros today'll be breadliners tomorrow and in
	the immortality game ya gotta go get some roots.

	I like the blues but I've got my own ethnicity to express. Gimme
	noise, gene pollution and bad government.


	"Yer just a spoiled suburban punk Archie, just like me"

				- Otto

    RE: .56
    
>   Man are you old!
    
    I'm sorry to depress you, Mike, but I bet you I'm younger than you 
    are!  Nah, nah, nah, nah-nah!        \
    					8^> 
                                         /
    J-Dot who_had_lots_older_brothers_and_sisters_and_older_friends 
    

    re:.51
    
    I did NOT EVER "Jam to KC and the shoeshine band"
    
    wash your mouth out with soap!!!
    
    Deep Purple now...
    
    dbii

Harley Davidson
American Tin
Ride 'em out,
and push 'em in !

-Or-

Ride a Harley
Ride The Best
Ride a Mile 
and walk the rest !

>    I'm sorry to depress you, Mike, but I bet you I'm younger than you 
>    are!  Nah, nah, nah, nah-nah!        \
    
    Okay J-dot, how young are you?
    
    Mike

                 <<< CVG::WORK3:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GUITAR.NOTE;2 >>>
                              -<  Guitar Notes  >-
================================================================================
Note 1779.61               sound out of Van Halen????                   61 of 62
VLNVAX::ALECLAIRE                                    18 lines  16-APR-1990 09:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I've heard Van Halen switched the string order around, too, like using
    3rds as 5ths, thin 4rths as 3rds. I tried it too but gave it up after a
    while. Also that wierd table he had in the back of the thing so he
    could play it horozontally. 
    
    
    
    I wore Bell Bottoms. I was listening to Peter Paul & Mary, Pete Seeger,
    Simon and Garfunkel, then. Now I can't stand them.
    
     Also listened to Segovia and Beethovan, still like them.
    
    
    

re: .58

>Title:  Sorry to burst your bubble, but!

Let's leave his bubble butt out of this, ok.?

re: this discussion

This is incredible, you don't read a notesfile for a couple of days and you 
come back to find a big row has occured.  I can't believe that you people will
actually take the time to repeat this same argument.  I don't know
HOW many times I've seen the "EVH or Clapton is the best"/"No he's not" thing 
since I've been noting...

re: Coop

If you listen to as much a variety of material as you claim, I can't see why
you'd be the one to try and make comparisons of musicians clearly in different
genres!  

Greg (w/o a bubble butt)

    My two cents, the reason for all this disagreement is because no one
    really knows what the question is,  but the answers are all different.
    
    Some of the questions seem to be:
    
    o Who is more technically advanced?
    
    o Who influenced more folks?
    
    o Who really "innovated"?
    
    Once you've got the questions, it's harder to disagree.  While they
    are not completely objective, they are far less subjective than
    "Who is better?".
    
    I think it's UNDENIABLE that Clapton, Van Halen and Hendrix all
    had a well above normal influence on guitar playing.  I haven't
    seen any of the VH/Clapton basher's deny that.
    
    I think it's undeniable that in terms of technical prowess that many of
    today's guitar players are faster and more technically flexible than
    these guys. I haven't seen any of the VH/CLapton defenders deny
    that.
    
    	db

I'm sorry I was so quick to beat up Clapton last week.  I was definately in
the mood to pick a fight.  Bailiff...Do your thing.

The whole thing a personal taste/opinion thing.

I tend to cop an attitude about poor old Eric because I like Heavy Metal,
and most of my friends think Clapton is god, and tend to ignore
the 'up-and-comings'...  "Yeah, yeah Coop, great, great...Now lets listen
to some *real* music."  Sheeesh, I do that to Cindi when she wants me to empty
the trash or something..."Yes, dear..., Of course dear...".  I guess it makes 
me feel patronized or something.

My tastes don't include Clapton (except for his old stuff), because
it's my opinion that he has little talent (certainly more than I).  
I wouldn't cut heads with him, cuz he'd mop the floor with me...
But I wouldn't listen to his music hoping to pick up any new lix 
either... In the band I'm in we play Clapton.  And we do it pretty well.
A lot better than we'd do Metallica or Rush.

I listen to his old stuff, because (again, IMHO) I feel that considering 
the age of the music and the head set of guitarist back then, he was a 
legend.  A definate bonefide hero and influence for that day...

Again, sorry for p!ssin' people off.

jc

    This is almost certainly going to p�$$ someone off....
    
    
    If we are talking about influence... in the UK at least you would
    have to include Paul Kossoff (sadly the late) of FREE.  For his
    time late 60's early 70's, his choppin' and basic riffin style on
    things like "ALRIGHT NOW" etc, had a definate influence on the British
    Rock scene.  "SLOW HAND" has the people who idolize him, but as
    he has said himself in many interviews, he devolped his style from
    the "Deep South Blues".  So you can take influences and throw them
    out of the window.
    
    Bob

    This has turned into another pi$$ing match about "my guitar hero"
    against "your guitar hero".  The base note was lost about 45 replies
    ago.  How Clapton got mentioned I don't know - seems like there was a
    question somewhere about how Eddie got his tone.  I *think* the
    question got answered then the rats moved in.  Maybe someone should lay
    down a trail of cheese in the direction of SOAPBOX ....
    
    
    
    					Scary

    Your right dude....
    
    I have been one of the Guilty.
    
    Will I ever be forgiven....B*)
    
    Bonzo

    Sure - I'm home now and in a MUCH better mood.  PEAR's still available
    for you hardheads !    B^)
    
    
    				Scary

    I can't comprehend why some folks in this conference can put down
    someone like Clapton!  Like they're supposed to be better than he!
    
    Hell, you're not even the beginning of a *pimple* on the great Eric
    Clapton's ass!!
    
    HA, gimme a break!!
    
    Mike

    > Most of my friends think Clapton is god, and tend to ignore the
    > 'up and comings'...   "Yeah, yeah Coop, great, great... Now let's
    > listen to seom *real* music."
    
    Sounds VERY familiar - I know more than a few folks like that.
    
    	db

    re: .72
    
    Right Dave, don't ya just hate people like that?
    
    I even know of some who look to St*ve M*orse as God!
    
    :^)
    

    This is one bandwagon I'm staying away from.
    
    But an intelligent discussion of general influences from the 60's
    70's and 80's might be interesting if it is done right. Perhaps
    a new note to discuss influences would be good.
    
    Just a general comment about the period from 1975 to 1979, The 
    so-called Disco ero. I don't know about others, but I recall
    going into a Disco....once! There was a lot of great music being
    recorded at that time but DISCO was interfering with the airplay
    of much of it. For example, Jazz-Rock fusion was in it's youth
    during this period, and people like Billy Cobham, Stanley Clark,
    etc. were taking music to places we never imagined in the 60's.
    Southern rock was also very popular during this time period.
    While others were bumpin' to "YMCA" I know what I was listening
    to, Charlie Daniels, Marshall Tucker, Commander Cote, Bonnie Rait,
    Muddy Waters, Skynard, Bad Company, Steve Miller, Dead, Kingfish,
    Doobies, *Steely Dan*, Supertramp, etc. Clearly some great music 
    came from a period remembered for it's worst element, Disco.
    
    Actually, Disco may have been just the medicine we needed to force 
    us all to explore alternative music like Bluegrass, Bebop, fusion,
    country-rock. Perhaps we owe the Las Vegas crowd a bit of thanks
    for flooding the market with Disco. The public got so saturated
    with this crap, that eventually many people developed an ear for
    good music. One lesson Disco taught us is that when people go out
    for a night on the town, they want to have fun. If music isn't fun
    people in the audience are not going to come back for more. A lot
    of the music and culture that followed disco has been great fun.
    
    Mark Jacques
    
    

    Um, that's Commander *Cody*...
    
    But thanks!
    
    Edd

	*PROPELLER ON*


	I was in high school at the dawn of the disco era. The `70s are
	often badmouthed, generally. Here's a few good reasons:

		The Night Chicago Died
		Which way you going Billy?
		Seasons in the Sun
		S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y Night!
		Do you feel the way I do

	The bring in the Donna Summer, Village People and other drivell
	and you might as well be talking about Milli Vanilli or Erasure.

	The mass media music is always marginal. This is precisely why
	I dislike the mass-market influence in guitar music as seen in
	the great Steve Vai rip-off.

	- anyway -

	Where I lived, disco was ignored and discoids were usually from
	the other side of Main St. on the East side of town. There were
	a lot of teen airheads I went to school heavily into Journey,
	Foreigner, Styx, Supertramp, Skynrd, blah blah more ugly stuff
	to hate the `70s for.


	Well what was good then???

	Dictators. Damned. Dead Boys. Sex Pistols. Teenage Jesus & the Jerks.
	DNA. Buzzcocks. Sweet. Chrome. Cheap Trick. KISS. BeBop Deluxe.
	Roxy Music. King Crimson. Hawkwind. Weather Report. Return to
	Forever. Mahavishnu Orchestra. Blondie (1st 2 albums). Ramones.
	Brownsville Station. Parliament. Funkadelic. Ohio Players. Bowie.
	UFO. Mohogany Rush. New York Dolls. BOC. 

	I really think EVH blinded us to some of the best music and it's
	only been the past 3 years or so that some people have been digging
	back and finding some of it. Like Chilli Peppers covering Stevie
	Wonder!

    I was also in high school from '76 to '80.  EVH saved the decade if you
    ask me!
    
    Mike

    > I even know of some who look to Steve Morse as God!
    
    I think it's fine to worship a player (Clapton, Morse, Van Halen,
    anybody).
    
    The problem is when you convince yourself that there can only be
    one such "god".
    
    	db

Well put.  I like that.

    
    
    
    	Yeah, I like it too.  I went to a benefit concert this week-end. 
    Mostly musicians or folks like me who want to be musicians attended,
    and the group was pretty much blues oriented.  
    
    	One of the bands there was a metal band, great hair, loud guitars
    and reeeeeal fast licks.  As soon as they started playing, a lot of my
    blues heroes began putting down the "puff heads".  I was disappointed
    and while I didn't participate in the "fun making" I feel a little
    ashamed that I didn't SAY something.
    
    	The music wasn't exactly what I like to listen to (don't get me
    wrong, I doooo like some metal music) but it was played superbly, and
    damn it, I want to play fast like that dude did... just for the sake of
    playing fast.. there, I've said it.
    
    	I like Clapton a lot, but he's not the "only" god out there
    (there's also Beck hee, hee)
    
    
    Steve

    They put their clothes on the same way I do, so I wouldn't call them
    gods ;-)  I think musical influences or guitar heros are more appropos.
    
    Mike

    
    Interesting discussion.....
    
    EVH, Clapton, Hendrix, Clark, Page, Bach, "Puffheads"......
    
    	They're *ALL* bozos.
    	They're *ALL* overated.
    	They're *ALL* CLAIMIN'
    
    No one can play a guitar like Bob Weir, these guys couldn't even mop
    his saliva off the stage after a Dead show.
    
    Dave

    
    
    
    
    		I like Music and like to play my guitar.
    
    	I have read through this BullS*it note and find it discusting.
    
    I got out of high school in the sixties and don't mind aging myself.
    I have selected favorites when it comes to guitar players, none of
    which I will reveal in the garbage note. I have listened to rock music
    as far back as I can remember, I mean waaaaaay back.
    
    All that I have to say is that, "If it weren't for all of them breaking
    through with their own fret board definition, none of it would be."
    
    Ok you guys, you can go back to your bickering again. Good night
    
    Rj
    
    

    AGEED !!! End of discusion ....	8^)
    
    
    Scary

    Yeah....Scary has SPOKEN!

    regarding .77
    
    I find it a little bit strange that you have included Supertramp and
    Skynard in your list of "more ugly stuff to hate the '70s for" while
    you praise the likes of Brownsville Station, Kiss, and Cheap Trick.
                                                             
    I look at Supertramp as being one of the cleanest sounding bands to
    come along in years. Their vocals and Roger Hodgekin's (sp?) piano 
    has always been a real breath of fresh air for me. Skynard also 
    deserves some credit for giving us some really sassy tunes although
    some of the later stuff did not live up (ie. Ooh that smell). I'll
    admit that both of these bands recieved too much airplay, but so
    didn't many of the bands you mentioned.  Overplay does not make
    a band any better or worse, and it's more a reflection on the 
    promoters, record industry, and radio stations than the band itself.
    Most bands are lucky if they can enjoy one minute in the spotlight
    and have no choice but to ride the wave of success as far as it will
    take them.
    
    When I think of Brownsville Station all I think of is "Smokin' in
    the Boyz room" which in my opinion was a pretty simplistic song,
    with a really lame guitar solo. Same goes for Cheap Trick. "I want
    you to want me, need you to need me, love you to love me" just
    never cut it with me. As far as Kiss is concerned, I'll admit they
    introduced much theatrics to the live concert scene, but this says
    nothing for their music.
    
    I'm not trying to pick a fight. I respect your tastes in music,
    and you are right in praising many of the bands you mentioned.
    I just couldn't help but take issue with your list of good and
    bad music from the period.
    
    In my humble opinion, one of the worst cultural trends to come
    from the late 70's was the "Punk" movement which I believe people
    like the Sex Pistols, Lou Reed, Bowie, etc. all helped to forge. 
    I may get a great deal of flames for this statement, but I just
    could never see the great attraction people had for this type of 
    music (and general culture) during the '80s.  I guess I'm just
    an old fashioned kind of guy.
    
    What it all boils down to is that everyone has their own ideas
    about what good music sounds like. The world would be a pretty
    bland place if we all liked the same music. As musicians, we
    should all make a concerted effort to be open-minded about
    all types of music, even the stuff we hate. Live and let live.
    Leave criticism to the critics. God knows there are enough of
    them to go around.
    
    Mark

	No offense taken & none offered. Actually the best Brownsville
	Station (I beleive they knew their initials were BS...) MNSHO
	was Martian Boogie.

	No ya see I really love notes like this one cuz I'm in the weird
	position of really loving ALL music. I know that some people think
	that if you insult their hero you've taken a whack at their `kahones'
	with a cleaver. This being a non-tech notesfile I'm glad to cmon
	in and poke fun at all the sanctimonious foo foo high hair dude
	droolin' that goes on in here. Like any good Nova Mobster I like a
	good fight.

	If you read my intro over in the music notes you'll see my fave
	song actually is "Girl From Ipanema". I really think Dean Martin
	is all the musical entertainment anybody really needs....
	Or was that the DeFranco Faminily. YEEZAHAH we having fun yet?


	As for Stooges/NY Dolls/Ramones/Sex Pistols these are in my preference
	basket because I beleive in my heart of hearts that when rock gets
	too serious it stops being rock. When it gets too convoluted and
	my BRAIN has to kick in to process it, I might as well get out a
	calculator and design a bridge or something.

	To each their own.... Now off to see what's happening the the
	rack/Kitty/Mushy 900 wars....

    
    RE: .62 >Okay J-Dot, how young are you?  Mike
    
    Well, Mike, let's put it this way, just about the time that Jimmy
    Hendrix first album came out, I was being born!
    
    
    RE:  Back a few about Mike's bubble butt...
    AGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGA!!!  Sorry Mike, I didn't know! 8-)
    
    
    
    RE: .83 
    [FLAME SET ON KILL, BBQ, CREMATE!]
    
    At first, I wrote a very nasty reply about the Deads and I thought,
    "Why should I lower myself by even replying this way?"  Why don't 
    everyone who can't contribute to the original topic, that's EVH TONE
    IF YOU CAN'T REMEMBER, shut the h*ll up and stay out of this topic?
    If you wanna talk about Bob Weird, start a topic elsewhere and let 
    those who are really interested in how EVH might get his sound?
    
    I don't think the originator of this topic doesn't give a s**t about
    EC, BW, or anyone else mentioned!  Why don't we stick to the original
    topic!  Come on you guys, like I said earlier, I'm probably one of the
    youngest member of this notesfile and I can't believe how childish
    everyone is acting!  It was fun for a while, but let's drop it already!
    
    [FLAME DOWN TO SIMMER]
    
    J-Dot

    
    RE .90
    
    I'll bet Bob Weir could get a much better sound using EVH's equipment
    than EVH himself.  His phrasing is incredible.....just listen closely
    sometime.
    
    Dave

    puke - IMHO .....		8^)
    
    
    Scary

>    Well, Mike, let's put it this way, just about the time that Jimmy
>    Hendrix first album came out, I was being born!
    
    What year was that?  It was before my time so I don't remember.
    
>    RE:  Back a few about Mike's bubble butt...
>    AGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGA!!!  Sorry Mike, I didn't know! 8-)
    
    yeah, but you can't stack plates on it!
    
    Mike
    

    My guess is that Jimi Hendrix' first album (besides the session work
    he did) must have hit the racks around 1968-69. Don't quote me. My
    Junior High School years have become quite foggy.
    
    Regarding .90   Granted, we have digressed from the original base
    topic, but how much can we say about Eddy's sound. Other people use
    the same basic equipment he uses, and sound totally differant, so
    I guess it comes down to his hands, and his chops. 
    
    Perhaps we should start a new note in which we can move all the 
    unrelated repies from this note. Then we could continue the dis-
    cussion without irritating anyone else. 
    
    Mark
    

>    My guess is that Jimi Hendrix' first album (besides the session work
>    he did) must have hit the racks around 1968-69. Don't quote me. My
>    Junior High School years have become quite foggy.

Hendrix's first album, 'Are You Experienced', was released in 1967 (the same 
year he played at the Monterey Pop Festival).

Alan S.

    Are You Experienced was released in the latter half of '66. Purple Haze
    was released as a single shortly after. As a young guitarist, his was
    the most unique sound and style I'd ever heard or even dreamed of. For you 
    younger dudes, I think that's something that'll probably never happen 
    again for you as it did for me. 
    
    Nowadays, I think we've become jaded to
    the fact that there are soooooo many great guitar players of soooooo
    many different styles, as this note and all of it's digression
    confirms. But when Hendrix came out, nobody but nobody played, or even
    thought like that. Like him or not (some felt that he was alot of
    noise) Jimi was a pioneer.  In that same vain, and more related
    to this topic, so was EVH. The only thing that diminishes Eddie's
    pioneering as compared to Jimi's is the fact that there are, as I said, 
    "sooooo many great guitar players of soooooo many styles."

    Ok, here's something that actually sort of relates to the original
    topic of this note.  Jose Arrendondo is/was EVH's amp tech; I believe
    he came up with the idea of using a Variac on Marshalls, or at least 
    he's the one responsible for it on Eddie's amps.  I heard an amusing
    story from someone who met Jose at one of the big vintage guitar shows.
    
    At one time, Jose was on the payroll and traveling with the Van Halen
    entourage.  His job at the time was to replace the tubes and
    *transformers* in Eddie's amps before each gig!  Evidently, Variac'ing
    your Marshall takes quite a toll on the components (DIY'ers take note).
    So this was a pretty cushy gig for Jose, until one day he suggested to
    Eddie that he could modify his pre-amps to get the same Variac'ed sound.
    Eddie liked the mod so much that he decided to stop using the Variac
    and Jose's services were no longer needed.

        
    As Jose put it, "kill goose lay golden egg".
    

    
    
    RE .91
    
>    I'll bet Bob Weir could get a much better sound using EVH's equipment
>    than EVH himself.  His phrasing is incredible.....just listen closely
>    sometime.
    
>    Dave
    
    Does this have **ANYTHING** to do with EVH's tone?  Thank you!
    And no thanks, I've put up with many un-enjoyed hours of Dead music 
    while attending CU, Boulder, and it does nothing for me!
    
>================================================================================
>Note 1779.92               sound out of Van Halen????                   92 of 97
>ASAHI::SCARY "Joke 'em if they can't take a ..."      4 lines  19-APR-1990 10:53
>>>>>>           ***-< So much for keeping the topic on track ! >-***
    
    Amen #1!
    
>  puke - IMHO .....		8^)
    
    
>    Scary
    
    Amen #2!  Words of wisdon, Scary!  Both IMHO, of course! 8^)
    
     RE: .93
	   
>    What year was that?  It was before my time so I don't remember.
    
    Nice try, Mike!  8^)
    
>>    RE:  Back a few about Mike's bubble butt...
>>    AGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGA!!!  Sorry Mike, I didn't know! 8-)
    
>    yeah, but you can't stack plates on it!
    
>    Mike
    
    ________________________________________________________
    
    Now, back to the original topic!  
    
    RE: last couple, thanks guys for puttng us back on track!  
    
    I, too believe that it has ALOT to do with his hands; more so than 
    Eddie's rig!  I do like Eddie's tone a lot(on all albums) but I am not 
    willing, or can I afford to spend as much money as Eddie did.  
    Go and try as many different rigs as you can, but don't expect to get 
    close to the tone you want with a cheapie $75 jobs.  If there's 1 thing 
    I learned last few years about amps is that you really get what you paid 
    for, unless, of course if you find a close-out like few of the guys did 
    with the Kitties...
    
    Another thing that I found recently is that the sound I like when
    playing just me & my amp is **completely** different when put into a 
    band context.  I found that in order to sound really good, I was 
    substituting bass and drum tone areas with an EQ pedal; turning the 
    bass and the treble way up.  When playing with a band, this conflicts
    directly with other instruments and I could not hear either myself or
    the other guys.  Anyone else have this problem?
    
    J-Dot 

               
    Whats happening to this conference ??
                      
    If I wanna see 100 notes of pure bull$hit I'll go look in the
    HEAVY_METAL conference!!                            
                                                        
    Can we start to talking about guitars, and stop bickering about
    who's better than who and all the old has-beens and nearly-were
    Etc..                                                         
                                                                               
           'sides, Randy Rhoades blows EVH, Claption, Weir (or 
           whateverhisunknownnameis and everyone else away 
    	   8^) x 283793 (tongue planted firmly in cheek).

    The conference is still cool - it's just this topic.  All you have to
    do is mention Eddie VanHalen and out come the Lovers/Haters. 
    Personally I think it's jealousy that drives the Haters and respect and
    admiration that drive the Lovers.  8^)
    
    Back to the topic though ... I have a tape I made of VanHalen's
    greatest hits, from the 1st up to 1984.  Eddie's tone has been all over
    the road inthose years.  He discovered flange, then chorus, then delay,
    then volume swells - little bit of everything.  So if you want EVH's
    tone, you better eat your Wheaties !  He's been a busy boy !  Plus, as
    was mentioned before - his phrasing along with the variety of tones
    makes him hard to pin down.
    
    Scary
    

I ran out and bought VanHalen I the other day.  God what a sound...
What a style...

I wish I had his chops...or even a portion thereof.

;)

Atomic Punk blows me away...And of course I still love Eruption even if
every guitarist in the world does try to copy it, it's still killer.

jc

    
    Listen to "Really Got Me".
                                                          
    Awsome cover!!    

actually I don;t think his soudn is that hard to get, the licks yes, the
overall sound no.

Just turn it up to max distortion, and keep the middle limited so your
high end cuts through...get a testerossa :-)


dbii

    "Everybody Wants Some" and "Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love" were always a
    couple of my favorites, as well as "Eruption".
    
    Mike

This isn't the right note, but Eruption was one of those...

"Boy that just changed my world..."

Freaked me out, and I didn't even play guitar then.

jc

    I remember when Eruption came out...I had a friend working for WEA, and
    I got one of the first copies of the VH album.  I though the end of
    Eruption (the two handed tapping arpeggios) was double-tracked trills.
    Shows you where MY mind was at (it still is...I never liked the sound
    of Tapping, and never felt the desire to sound or play like VH).  Well,
    years later, there has been some innovative stuff done with the tapping
    trip, but I still prefer the blues!
    
    moi

    
    Not sure of the name, but its from "women and children first", is it
    called "Could this be magic"?.....anyway, its a great acoustic bluesey
    tune that blw me away.  Simple yes, but it sounds too cool.  Yeah, it
    has nothing to do with Eddie's "sound" since its acoustic.....
    
    I also really LOVE the introduction to "Women in love", sounds like a
    strat he's playing there, great sound and technique there, really
    pretty sounding.
    
    I can really get off on EVH's sound sometimes, when I'm in the mood for
    it......to me he makes it seem so easy to do, his rhythms are so
    smooth, they impress me more than his solos and licks do.
    
    Dave

	we're not really gonna talk about EVH's sound, are we ;-).

	I think PANAMA is the peak of the man's career using the 'brown'
	sound but FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED shows a whole new direction
	that I'd live to hear more of.

    One more Van Halen question.
    
    Dweezil Zappa is also making references to the influence of Van Halen
    on his new Sitcom "Normal Life".
    
    This week I caught the end of it, which had (according to the story)
    a note from EVH giving his reaction to the Dweezil's playing (or
    technically, his "characters" playing).
    
    Did EVH actually make an appearence earlier in the show?
    
    	db
    
    p.s.  There's been some interesting guitar playing by the Dweez on
    	  the show, but I'm definitely NOT a fan of his playing.  His
    	  style is definitely what I'd call "teenage music store style".
    
    	  That is, the style that you get barraged with when you walk
    	  into a music store on a Saturday afternoon and hear a half
    	  dozen or so teenaged guitarists showing off their most impressive
    	  licks.

    
    RE: About Ed's rhythm playing...
    
    Yup, I agree.  I tend to think that the songs are not just a show
    case for his solo, but rather more in the sake of song writing.  
    Like Jimmi Hendrix; their rhythm playing inspires me a lot more than
    their solos do...  I'm strange...  The rhythm on the song "5150" just
    blows me away!  And what he did with chords A and G on "Ain't Talkin'
    'Bout Love"!
    
    I think Ed used to use a lot of reverb and echoplex in the earlier 
    albums, but seems to have backed off on them on their last few albums.
    It seems like that his "Brown" sound doesn't have such a hard edge on 
    it as it used to either...
    
    I think I read somewhere that in order to cater to Sammy's voice tone,
    he started using chorus a lot on 5150...  And 5150, to me, sounds very
    different from earlier albums in more ways than one.  May be it's the
    Steinberger???  I never had a chance to play one of those pricey
    monsters but would like to, just for the s**ts and grins.  I know that
    Vitto Bratta plays one and I think his tone sounds A LOT like Eddie's
    (not to mention most of his licks, IMO)
    
    J-Dot

    IMHO, I think Eddie Van Halen is the best rock guitarist ever. 
    The solo he performs on "So this is love?" gives me goosebumps every-
    time I listen to it.  He has definitely been THE biggest inspiration
    for me to start playing electric guitar.  I bought a Kramer because
    because he play's them.  I don't want to be Eddie Van Halen, but
    I want to sound like him when I play.  
    
    Alan

    RE: -.1
    
    >IMHO, I think Eddie Van Halen is the best rock guitarist ever. 
                                               ^^^^           ^^^^
    
    Although I agree that he's one of the best "rock" guitarists, I really 
    can't say that he's *the best rock guitarist ever*.
    
    Personally, I'd like to consider what one guitarist has contributed 
    to the instrument and I must say that Ed has contributed a lot.
    
    >  He has definitely been THE biggest inspiration for me to start 
    >playing electric guitar.  
    
    Me, too!  But for me, I think the biggest reason why I like Ed so much
    has a lot to do with his attitude.  He always seems to be enjoying 
    himself when he's playing.  You know?  I think his love for the 
    instrument really shows thru...
    
    >I bought a Kramer because he play's them.  
    
    I bought a guitar with a tremolo(couldn't afford a Kramer at the time
    8( ) because of Ed.                              
    
    >I don't want to be Eddie Van Halen, but I want to sound like him when 
    >I play.  
    
    I'd like to have my love for the instrument show thru like Ed's does
    when I play.
    
    While I was driving in, I was thinking about Ed's style and one of the
    things that really stood out in my mind is his usage of palm mute and
    pick harmonics.  It occurred to me that when he plays, his right hand 
    is all over the place; harmonic and finger tapping, pick harmonics, 
    whammy bar, string slapping(intro to "Mean Street"), and so forth.
    It seems to me that he has liberated his right hand from its usual role
    of just sitting at the bridge.
    
    If you've ever seen Live W/O a Net, at the end of his guitar solo, 
    he does some fast picking and it seemed he does this by using his 
    whole arm from elbow down!  I've tried this and haven't been able 
    to duplicate...
    
    I think before they started making 5150 strings, he was using Fender
    electric sets.  When I tried the Fenders, I found them to be "warmer"
    sounding and not as bright as the Boomers,  and I preferred the overall
    sound of the Fender strings.  I use Boomers now, and have been for last 
    5 years, but only because I couln't get the Fenders in specified gauges; 
    10, 13, 17, 24, 32, and 42.
    
    J-Dot

    I had an old Strat that I rebuilt (paint job and all ...) to look
    EXACTLY like the one shown on the back of VH I, black with yellow
    stripes.  It was a PERFECT copy.  Then I bought my Kramer 'cuz that's
    what he played then.  Then I started using "5150" strings, which
    s*cked.  I also have to agree that EVH rhythm work is pretty
    outstanding.  When you're the only guitar player in a band, ya gotta be
    real busy but also, you must be tasteful and careful not to overplay.
    His phrasing shines through on his rhythm playing too.  
    
    Scary

    
    
    
    
    	Well, if you guys are gonna start talking about EVH in the EVH
    topic, I'd like to know what 5150 refers to??   Now look, if it's some
    kind of devil worship, cult oriented, insider stuff, I don't wanna
    know, heck I graduated from high school in the sixties... ;^)

    It's the first Van Halen record with Sammy Hagar.
    5150 is also the Los Angeles police code for an escaped mental patient,
    not that I would know anything about that...
    It's also a song on the record, but my favorite is Best of Both Worlds.
    maybe 86 or so

It's also a brand of strings, isn't it ??

jc

    Yep, and it's also the name of Eddie's home studio ...
    
    Scary

    I can't believe you guys are serious about not knowing about the 5150
    product line.  Here's eddie with strings and studio and record 
    and here comes the Turtles with over 100 items in the product line.
    New kids might have more.  All them $$$ going to the New Kids and not
    Eddie. 
     oh oh....

    
    Hey!!!  Where can I get Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle strings?!?
    I hear they NEVER break!!!!!  :^)
    
    Dave

    Now when you get all those triads down in 1754.last, you'll be able to
    play a LOT of Van Halen tunes.  He's big on triads!  Let's take the
    intro to "Panama" for example (he's tuned to Eb, but we'll use standard 
    tuning).  The second ring of the chord is more of a mute done by
    lightly fretting the strings.
    
      E     Esus4   B                  D  Dsus4 A
    E----------------------------------------------
    B-9--9--10--10--7--7--9--9--10--7--7--8--8--5--
    G-9--9---9---9--8--8--9--9---9--8--7--7--7--6--
    D-9--9---9---9--9--9--9--9---9--9--7--7--7--7--
    A----------------------------------------------
    E----------------------------------------------

    In the new Guitar Player, EVH talks about his new guitar.  Its a fairly
    interesting article.
    
    Mike

    Here's a VH trivia question.  Does anyone know if David Lee Roth
    ever played bass in the early days of the band?  Here's the reason
    I ask: I heard an old VH boot from about 1976, recorded at some bar
    in Pasadena.  This was before the first record, probably before they
    were very well known at all.  Anyway, several times during the night
    Big Dave used the phrase "playin my bass" while improvising lyrics.
    So I figured hey, it's possible.  Anyone ever hear this mentioned?
    
    /rick

     not positive but a definite maybe.....Mike Anthony had his own band
    called Mammoth in those days..... 

    btw, I mentioned in a previous reply that I'd been listening to some
    old Van Halen bootlegs.  The recording quality on these is uniformly
    horrendous, but there are several interesting aspects to these for VH
    fans:
    
    - At the time of these tapes, around '75 or so and a couple of years
      before the first album, Eddie's style is already fully formed.  When
      I think back to what I was hearing and playing myself back then, it
      really hits home how far ahead of it's time this stuff was.
    
    - The band always wrote great tunes; even the stuff that never made it
      to vinyl sounds good (to me).
    
    - It's easy to forget that Eddie does most of his stuff live; few
      overdubs (at least in the early days).  One of the criminally
      neglected aspects of his playing is how he fills and keeps the
      rhythm going, often in very inventive ways.  A lot of that stuff
      slips by without you even realizing it.  The band sound is very full
      for a three piece.
    
    - Even with the terrible recording quality, Eddie's live "brown sound"
      is something to behold; the tone often sounds better than the first
      album.  I've heard some well recorded large VH concert recordings that
      don't come close, either.  There's just something about his straight
      modified-Marshall-in-a-small-club sound that cuts through no matter
      how primitive the recording.  Good stuff.
    
    /rick_closet_vh_fan

    How did you manage to get a hold of such a recording?  I wouldn't mind
    giving it a listen.
    
    Mike (another closet VH fan)
    
    BTW - hard to believe he's a daddy now.  I even saw a photo of him
    jamming the other day and he's wearing glasses.  Tough to get old ;-)

    I found these at a used record show.  There was a dealer who had
    a ton of bootleg cassette tapes from almost any rock artist you
    can think of.  I've also seen em in a few local (Boston) record
    stores.  It's all packaged the same, which makes me think there's
    some sort of underground national distribution of this stuff.

    I once saw bootleg VH stuff in a record store in Edinburgh,it was
    concert material from about 1979-80 period,the quality was pretty junk
    which was a petty as the track listing was superb.

    Van Halen will be touring with Alice in Chains to support the new
    album.  They will be in Phoenix on September 8.  Tickets go on sale
    tomorrow morning.
    
    Mike

    I presume Alice In Chains is headlining?

    phuc hue ....  8^)
    

    Right on, gh!

    re: .133 -you beat me to that one!

    What's this I hear about him using a new amp?  He's not using Marshalls
    anymore?

    What amp is he using now ?
    
    Scary
    

    Doesn't SOUND like he's been using Marshalls for the last two lp's
    IMHO.

    I was told offline by another noter that it is one of the new Peaveys.
    
    Mike

    re .138     Peavey  :^)
    

    Yeah, Peavey!  They designed a new amp just for him and that's what
    he's using most of the time.  I read this in his latest interview in
    Guitar World (this months issue or lasts).  
    
    He used it on all but a couple of tracks on the new album.  Before that
    he was using some wierd rig with an H&H power amp in it.  
    
    Greg

    I guess a bastardized Peavey is no different from a Bastardized
    Marshall.  He said his new guitar is the best of a lp/tele/strat, and I
    guess he's right - I don't see much `strat' left though ...
    
    Scary

    re: Bastardized Marshall
    
    Now in this interview, after all these years, he says that he never had
    his Marshalls modified!  He's had the same old 100wt head since way
    before the first album.  He said that the *publicity* people spread the
    false information that there was something special to his amps! 
    
    He said the only thing he ever did was use a Variac to *LOWER* the
    voltage going to the amp to get a different sound.  (This is completely
    contrary to an interview I read with him several years ago where he
    said he raised the voltage "until the tubes melted"...)
    
    His amp tech also had a little section in there and also said the amp
    was totally stock.
    
    Greg

    What about those interviews where Jose Whatshisface said he installed a
    customized preamp in his heads?!?!

    So now we know the guy has no idea what he's talking about  8^)  8^)
    
    Maybe they should start a new magazine called "Guitar tech" and just
    talk to the techs about amps and truss rod setups and stuff  8^)  8^)
    
    Marshall, Peavey, whatever, does anybody really *care* about what he's
    using?  
    
    							Brian
    
    P.S. What's in a name?  A buddy of mine put a Heineken logo onto an old
    Gibson amp...gets lots of cool questions, "Wow, I didn't know they made
    *amps*, too", etc.

    
    Peavey huh? See, even Eddie don't need no stinkin' Marshall!  
    
    				
    					;^)

>    P.S. What's in a name?  A buddy of mine put a Heineken logo onto an old
>    Gibson amp...gets lots of cool questions, "Wow, I didn't know they made
>    *amps*, too", etc.

    HAHAHA!  Now *that's* my kinda amp!
    
    Does it come with it's own tap or is that an accessory?
    
    Greg

    I want a ROLLING ROCK head, then!!
    
    8^)

There really should be no surprise...Journey used PV's for years and I always
though Neal had a reall good tone...

Not that I'm buying a PV anytime soon...I;'ve got the Rivera/Duncan/Kitty rack
from hell to choose from...

dbii

    Also, the guys in Lynyrd Skynyrd used Peaveys as well (Those brutal MACE
    amps even), and I always liked their sound.
    
    As I've always maintained (except for myself, heehee), the vast
    majority of your sound comes from YOU, not your equipment.
    
    gh

    If ever there was a more aptly named amp, it was the Peavey MACE.
    
    Man, that thing would scare ANYBODY off!

    I used to have a Peavey Classic...  talk about an oxymoron.
    
    Actually it was an OK amp-- versatile and a good value.  Once you 
    cranked it a bit and got the 6L6s to color the sound a bit it sounded 
    OK.  
    
    Come to think of it, aren't they calling their new psuedo-bassman 
    "Classic" too??  I hear that it is a pretty decent sounding amp.
    4 EL-84s, like an AC-30 and the Seymore Duncan combos.
    
    
    Jim

>    If ever there was a more aptly named amp, it was the Peavey MACE.

    Isn't that the truth!  Guaranteed to bludgeon any signal!
    
    But they did weigh less then a Twin...
    
    Greg

re: skynyrd

When they first started out, before Mr. PV started giving amps away to 
endorsers, they used marshalls, at least when I saw them in Memphis in
'72 (great show BTW, foghat, skynyrd, clapton) they did, three 1/2 stacks
on the stage, no sign of a PV anywhere...I did see Greg Allmon though...

Personally I think "your" sound is made up of three things:

You
the guitar
the amp

in that order..


dbii

    Dave sunk the battleship with that one ...
    
    I've played all sorts of rigs, all sorts of guitars, and I swear, the
    end result is VERY close.  I've heard *killer* players use garbage and
    wail, and I've heard wanabes with racks to the roof and they still
    sound like feces.  I thinks it's 90% player / 5% equipment / 5% bandanas.
    
    Scary

    bandanas?
    
    Guess I'll never get above 95%,...
    
    	:-)
    							/Bill
    

    Well, you either have to have a hefty collection of bandanas, OR, a
    large black dog capable of catching a frizbee while wearing wayfarer
    sunglasses ..  8^)
    
    Scary (who sez bandanas don't sh*t in the house ...)

    :-)
    

We talking about Sinbad again Scary ??

:)
jc

    Kinda .... I never saw Sinbad catch one in mid air, but I have seen him
    chew the sh*t outta one while it was on the ground ...  8^)
    
    He was a cool mutt though - lotta character ...
    
    Scary

    This weekend I saw a little blurb on TV regarding the current VH tour.
    Eddy had stacks that definitely did not have a Marshall logo, but they
    also definitely were not sporting the familiar Peavey logo.  Has PV
    changed their logo recently?

     He also apparently used a custom Soldano amp on the album as well as
    his Peavey '5150' and Marshall amps.
    
    FJE
    

    During Sunday's show, he had his Ernie Ball guitar and never switched all 
    night.  However, there was nothing but Marshalls out for amps.  Maybe 
    Peavey isn't road worthy?  His spotlight solo pretty much consisted of his 
    instrumentals strung together (i.e., Eruption, Cathedral, one from the 
    new album, etc.).  I've since heard he's been doing this for years.
    
    Re: harmonics on Poundcake
    
    It was in GFTPM a couple issues back (he's on the cover).
    
    Mike

    The MTV thing I saw him on the other night when I was doing some
    channel switching showed him with his Ernie Ball guitar and at least 
    3 maybe 4 stacks of Peavey 5150 amps...
    
    							Rick
    				

    In the ever important quest to play exactly like your guitar heros, it
    should be noted that Eddie is using a SKIL drill on the current tour. 
    Personally, I think he'd be better off with a Makita!
    
    Oh and speaking of priorities...  Word around the southwest is that 
    Eddie has been keeping constant company with vast quantities of Corona 
    on this tour.  Since he just came out of rehab, Valerie's pissed and has 
    reportedly packed his bags and left them in the driveway.
    
    Mike

    I never heard he was *IN* rehab ...  ?
    
    Scary

    He's a graduate of the Betty Ford Institute ;-)

    Sorry Scary, ole Ed must have forgotten to update ya on that one...
    

    Yeah, well, he's a busy guy ...  8^)
    
    
    Scary

     	I still think Paul Gilbert uses the drill in a much better way!!
    		In 1985 Gilbert used the drill in a class, When he was
    teaching at GIT a young shredder on the rise!!!!
    
    Pierre who searches another band to join with a good attitude and the
    look to boot!!!
    

    I wonder how a router would do ?  ;^)  Some serious rpm's ...
    
    Scary

    
    When my band come out to play in late November I'm doing a bit of a
    solo spot thing with a drill (ripping off Paul Gilbert and Eddie) but
    I've got a bit of a novel twist to it ...
    
    I'm using a manual drill !!
    
    -Tony (who is serious).

    That's great !  8^)
    
    Scary (who might try a similar trick with one of our 6 ton CNC's ...  8^)
    
    

    >Scary (who might try a similar trick with one of our 6 ton CNC's ...  8^)
    
    Hey, maybe ya can ask good ole MB to show you some licks with it!
    8^)

    I used to play in a band and the other guitar player did tapping with a
    vibrator !

    RE:  MB and CNC gymnastics ...
    
    No, I don't think so.  If he had stayed out of trouble, he would have
    got `the package' that came through here back then - he would have had
    a pretty fair chunk o' change.  I've got 48 more days on papa Ken's
    payroll before I get my Christmas `package' ... I'm playing by the
    rules ... pretty much ...  8^)
    
    Scary

re .174
 >>    I'm using a manual drill !!

Picturing Tony with a Bit brace is CRACKIN' ME UP !

jc

    
    
    
    
    
    
                          with a flexible shaft?
    
    
    
    
    

    I refuse to use anything but a Makita!

    
    
    Elbows are wonderful for muting strings 8^)

    -1
    
    Don't laugh...there is one two-handed tapping lick that eddie does
    that he string mutes with his elbow!!

    Anyone know the intro to "Unchained"?  
    
    Mike

    Eddie does ...  8^)
    
    Scary (waaaaaaaaaagaggaa ... Mikey, that's an easy one !)

    Unchained Melody?

    >Anyone know the intro to "Unchained"?  
    
    Hey ya go, Mikey... (fyi -- Guitar is tuned D, A, D, G, B, E throughout)
    
    e---------------------------------------------------------------------
    b--7--8------------3-4-3---5-6-5---7--8------------10-11-10---10--08--
    g--7-(7)-----------3-------5-------7-(7)-----------10---------10--09--
    d--7-(7)-----------3-------5-------7-(7)-----------10---------10--10--
    a--5-(5)-----------1-------3-------5-(5)-----------08-----------------
    e--------o-o-o-o-o-------o-------o-------o-o-o-o-o----------o---------
    
    
    >               -< coasters don't hibernate in the south >-

    Rub it in, ok?!?
    8^) 

>    Hey ya go, Mikey... (fyi -- Guitar is tuned D, A, D, G, B, E throughout)
    
    Is this open D?  I figured they were triads since he seems to use them
    the majority of the time.
    

>    Rub it in, ok?!?      8^) 
    
    No problem, your loss is my gain ;-)
    
    Mike

    Open D?  No, it's just standard tuning with the low E tuned down a
    step.
    
    Open D would have an F# in it...
    
    gh

    Actually, it's back when VH were tuning both guitar and bass...Low E =
    D (pitch-wise) to accomodate DLR's failing vocal range.  The guitar is
    actually in STD tuning, with the progression played in "E".  However,
    to get the sound which is present on the record, the best and easy fix
    is to just de-tune the low E to low D, and transpose the chords down
    two frets!

    sorry, I didn't read the entire tuning very carefully.
    
    Buck sure knows a lot about EVH stuff! ;-)

>    Buck sure knows a lot about EVH stuff! ;-)
    
    EVH is his *favorite* player!
    ;^)

    Buck had to teach the sh*t to bratty teenagers who didn't know any
    better!  8^)  I set em straight...turned em on to Holdsworth.

    I saw him Sunday at Nassau Colisium and he was BURNING!!!!!!
    -the evil KRON

    >I saw him Sunday at Nassau Colisium and he was BURNING!!!!!!
    
    I thought they checked hecklers for Molitov Cocktails at the door?!?
    ];^>
    
    -the even more evil BUCK

    
    
    
    
    
               'cause he's drinking the Molotov cocktails.
    
    
    

    No Richard Pryor joke, please.

    
>> I set em straight...turned em on to Holdsworth.
    
    Amen brother !
    

    Hallelujah!

        Just a little trivia for the morning. . .
        
        Valerie Bertinelli  is  on  Regis and Kathy Lee right now and
        she was just  saying that she and Eddie have been married for
        almost 11 years.  Their son, `Wolfie' is also there and she's
        going nutz oogling over him. (Baby's only around a year old.)
        
        I'm waiting to see if they've got him playing guitar yet. :^)
        
        Matt B

    Valerie is on a CBS movie this weekend about child custody.  From the
    previews, I wonder if the baby used in the movie was "Wolfie".
    
    Mike

     what do you mean she's too cute for him? At a distance they look like
    twins!!!!

    > what do you mean she's too cute for him? At a distance they look like
    >twins!!!!
    
    Indeed!  Spottable only by the fact that Eddie is the one with a drink
    in his hand!

�        <<< Note 1779.188 by CAVLRY::BUCK "Coaster Hibernantion Time" >>>
�             -< Also, you need an old MXR Flanger for the intro!! >-
�
�    >Anyone know the intro to "Unchained"?  
�    
�    Hey ya go, Mikey... (fyi -- Guitar is tuned D, A, D, G, B, E throughout)
�    
�    e---------------------------------------------------------------------
�    b--7--8------------3-4-3---5-6-5---7--8------------10-11-10---10--08--
�    g--7-(7)-----------3-------5-------7-(7)-----------10---------10--09--
�    d--7-(7)-----------3-------5-------7-(7)-----------10---------10--10--
�    a--5-(5)-----------1-------3-------5-(5)-----------08-----------------
�    e--------o-o-o-o-o-------o-------o-------o-o-o-o-o----------o---------
    
    I finally had the chance to fool with this last night.  It actually
    sounds better down a half-step.  Eddie must be tuned to Eb on this one 
    (like many others of his songs).
    
    I bet it would sound killer on your 5150 � stack! ;-)
    
    Mike

Hi Guys!

	I've been playing around with the tabs posted for
	Unchained, and Panama...  COOL!!!

	(Unfortunately ater about 15 minutes my wrist starts to KILL)

	BUT, does anyone have the tab for MEEN STREET???

	All I know is that the low string is also tuned to D...

	Also, I've been unable to find the sheet music for the
	Fair Warning album...  Anyone out there have it?  Is it
	Ok to Xerox something that is out of print?

Many Thanks!

_John_

>	Also, I've been unable to find the sheet music for the
>	Fair Warning album...  Anyone out there have it?  Is it
>	Ok to Xerox something that is out of print?
    
    No, but I'm sure it happens all the time.
    
    The issue is whether or not it is copyrighted, not whether or not
    the copyright holder has chosen to make it available.
    
    	db

    "Best of Guitar Player" has just published an entire magazine dedicated
    to Eddie. It includes interviews with Ed from the late '70's and early
    '80's, the scoop on Eddie's gear, an interview with Alex Van Halen, and
    transcriptions to "Judgement Day" (Complete) and the intro to "Mean
    Streets". 
    
    Mike

    Saw Van Halen on the Letterman show last night.  Looks like Eddie's
    got a new guitar, although you might not notice right away.  This one
    was similar to the Ernie Ball, but closer inspection revealed what
    looked like a carved (instead of flat) top and a different headstock.
    The body shape is also different, similar to the EB but with nicer
    curves and more pronounced horns; kinda like they took the old model
    and removed the fuglies from it.
    
    I read recently that Eddie was terminating his relationship with Ernie
    Ball; perhaps this guitar is the result of some new collaboration.
    
    /rick
    

    Eddie Van Halen is now collaborating with Peavey for his new guitars.
    Don't know if the one you saw is a prototype or not.  Been lots of 
    discussion about this in alt.guitar out on the inet.
    
     Lv

    How many songs did they play????
    
    I tuned in just after one song where Eddie started out on piano, then
    Paul Schaffer took over while Eddie put on a guitar.   When that song
    ended they went to commercial and I walked out to the fridge. 
    
    When I came back (what at least FELT like only a minute or two later)
    it looked like they had just finished doing another song (showing a
    Sammy Hagar jump in slow-mo) and were cutting to another commercial.
    Did they actually play another song?
    
    	db

    
    From the inet:
    

    
Ed already has the prototype model.  He wouldn't sign until they could
give him consistent models.

The EVH Music Man will still be made - but it won't be the EVH any more
Music Man will still make the guitar, but can no longer put the signature
on the guitar.  I don't know about the cost.

There apperently is some flack over the body style.  There is question as
to what is the property of Music Man guitars, and what is "free" to 
whoever.

Music Man own's certain things about the guitar - but is the body style
protected?  How about the exact specs of the neck?  Apparently the neck
has been ruled to be patentable (at least the headstock).  But, can
Peavey make the exact guitar body?  What about the finishes

Peavey has also purchased a Drop-D tuner from a company to be placed on
the guitars (at least the high end ones).  He can instantly drop the E
down to the D

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    
	Yes!  Eddie has signed with Peavey who already makes his 5150 
    amps. I heard they already have the guitar finished and it should 
    be for sale to the public by Christmas.  Although Peavey is not 
    famous for their guitars I hear their higher end models are pretty 
    good.  The list price for the first Peavey is about $1200.  Cheaper 
    than the EBMM (about $1800). Another design will feature a neck-
    through-body design for about $2000.  An acoustic model may also be 
    made. EVH's complaint was that EBMM was charging too much and making 
    too few.  Interesting when you realize that he went to EBMM
    because the wouldn't make too many.  The Music Man guitar, whose price 
    has shot up dramatically, will still be available without the Eddie 
    Van Halen signature.  The price will probably go down though.
    

    re: db
    
    Well, you saw everything I did; not another whole song for TV, but it
    looks like they were playing some more for the studio audience.
    
    The axe looked pretty nice.
    

    re body styles
    
    the Letterman guitar was much better looking than the EB imo.
    It's similar at first glance, but different enough that I don't
    see how it could be considered an infringement even if EB does
    own the original body style.
    
    I guess those folks in Meridan just keep getting cooler and cooler...
    

	Today's USA Today has an article about Dave's new Vegas
	nightclub act.  He's looking to "redefine the image of Vegas
	performers and give aging music fans an option beyond arena
	rock".  His repertoire includes only a few Van Halen tunes
	but "minus the crunch guitar".

	"Instead he has cooked up a jazz-bluesy stew of Fats Waller,
	Miles Davis, James Brown, Boz Scaggs and Lois Prima.  Rock'n'Roll
	is in the rear view mirror.  I ain't that angry anymore".

	His band is a 14-piece ensemble known as the Blues-Bustin'
	Mambo Slammers.  6-piec brass section, latin percussionists,
	and Edgar Winter on keys and sax.

	On mosh pits: "If you see people start to slam into each other
	and wrestle while you're onstage, it's because you stink".

	On Van Halen: "Like and ex-wife.  Not a lot of contact.  There's
	recrimination and nostalgia.  I'm still proud of what I did
	with them.  Their new singer is about as boring as the second
	Darren on Bewitched".

    
    	Geez, what a meanie this guy can be, eh?
    

    sour grapes.  He can trash talk all he wants, but look where he is and 
    where Sammy is.

    
    But I'd agree - Sammy IS about as boring as Darren.  I like Dave and 
    and I likED Van Halen.  I don't care much for VanHagar...  But I will
    say that the new album "Balance" is about the best thing to come along
    since Hagar joined up...
    
    FWIW Mike, I betcha Daimond Dave makes more on his royalty checks
    than Sammy will ever see...
    

    
    .... I always thought of Dave as a sort of glorified lounge lizard
    type of guy, even though I did like some of his work with VH. I
    guess I just have trouble with anyone  who doesn't realize that their
    s#!t stinks just like any other human's. Some may find Sammy boring -
    different strokes and all that - but he seems like a much more genuine,
    real person. But then I liked "Screamin' Sammy" even before he lucked into
    his current gig with one of the greatest Rock bands of all time (even
    if their bass player does suck, bless his little heart - different
    topic I guess!).
                  

    
    	Hey, Michael drinks JD on stage.
    
    	That has to count for something.
    

    I think the "Darren" analogy is pretty appropriate-- after all,
    neither Darren was exactly overflowing with personality (or talent)...
    
    :^)

    Although I think Diamond Dave is a has been, this new Vegas act sounds
    pretty cool, actually, and I gotta agree with him on the Sammy comment.
    
    Old VH rocked with DLR at the forefront, new VH is like taking
    Malox.

    re-1
    
    agreed!
    
    
    						ian

    Double - agreed!
    
    Like him or not, Dave was an AWESOME front-man (like personified!)!
    jc
    

    I also agree with DLR about Sammy.
    
    Sammy's OK, but DLR was THE right singer for that band and Sammy
    isn't.
    
    I long for the old VH days.
    
    	db

    Van Halen was one of my favorite rock bands through 5 albums.
    I liked every song. Dave IS a showman. I liked the first 2 DLR
    albums somewhat, and the Skyscraper tour was a lot of fun...and LOOOUUUDDD
    
    If I were going to Vegas, I'd rather see DLR than Tom Jones or
    Wayne Newton, although Siegfried and Roy tickets would be my goal...
    
    RE: that crack about Mike Anthony. I think he's a competent bass
    player, it's just the stuff required of him is just ba-ba-ba-ba
    eighth notes. He's a Hell of a vocalist. Where someone will
    do a major-third over the melody, he does an octave-major-third...
    and that's tough to do over Sammy or DLR. Clean crisp and tight.
    No floundering or bending pitch to get there...just bang! right on!
    
    Larry
    
    

    The first two DLR albums were (IMHO) infinitely better than anything
    VH has come out with since DLR left.
    
    	db

    Not according to the pop charts or sales.

    
    
    The "Darren" comment is a killer, regardless of whether or not it's
    true.  Gee, talk about cutting Sammy off at the knees!
    
    Kevin
     

    
    	"Eat 'Em and Smile" is almost as close to a musical masterpiece
    	as anything can get [well, except for any Dregs album, of course
    	8^)].  And "Skyscraper" wasn't much worse.
    
    	That was an incredible band.
    

    The non-musician fans of VH that I know have never waned over their
    support.  Their just as avid fans for both singers.  We're overly
    critical because of our perspective, but Joe Q Public could care less
    and it shows in their album sales.
    
    Mike

    
    	Personally, I very much enjoy Dave's voice and attitude.  His
    	wink at ya style cracks me up.
    
    	Hagar just screams from start to finish, to me, much like
    	Bolton.  I was given the latest VH tape and there's one tune
    	on there where he starts the song much lower / no screaming.
    	If he sang like that, I'd be far more interested.  But it's
    	like I want to make a tape of the beginnings, solos, and
    	endings and edit out the vocal.
    
    	I'd definitely check out Dave's Vegas show.  In the article,
    	he said "it ain't your parents Vegas".  His big band version
    	of "Just a Gigolo" kicks butt and it and songs like it must
    	be great in person.
    
    	But I've always been a big fan of 40's swing anyway.
    
    	Tom
    

    
    
    my only fear is will he end up like Elvis?Evlis was truly downhill when
    did the Vegas thing.
    
    
    I would hate to hear Dave was found dead in the toilet,300lbs
    over-weight and wearing gold lame p-j's!
    
    
    						ian

    Elvis didn't go bald. ;-)

    OK - OK - Mr. Anthony's got big hands and drinks at work ... must be
    one hell of a bass palyer! ;-)
    
    Actually, to be fair to the guy, he's probably playing exactly what the
    boss tells him to play. Competent ... yeah, I suppose so. I'd like to
    hear Eddie jam with a bassist that really rips sometime though ... a
    Geddy Lee or even a Nathan East. That'd be killer stuff!
    
    We bass players know you guitarists just want us to stand back here,
    lock with the drummer, and pump out those R-3-5 walkers though, right?
    :-)   ;-)   ;-O !!

    
    I always thought that Mikey boy was a damn fine bass player.I mean,he's
    no Billy Shehan but he's a solid player and its his voice that deals
    with the high harmonies!
    
    so,I guess I'm saying "get offa his back,willya" 8)
    
    
    re-1
    
    as for Elvis never going bald,well thats true(as far as we know)but
    Dave's waisteline isn't in treble figures like Elvis's was. 8)
    
    							ian

    
    re: .232 Tom D.
    
     Ha Tom, I can relate on that Michael Bolton comment.  Last week my 
    wife was listening to the radio and I said "I didn't think you liked 
    Michael Bolton" ... she retorted with a puzzled look and said "That's 
    Van Halen, not Michael Bolton".  But hey, while I'm here I'll put my
    vote of preference towards Dave.  I liked the early stuff a lot more,
    and Dave could actually carry a melody.  The Darren comment is pretty
    funny imho.
     
     Lv
     

    Latest BP mag has an interview with Mr. Anthony.  He hears all the
    stuff about "wish Eddie had a better bass player".  His remarks?
    He likens his approach in the band to players like Cliff Williams
    of AC/DC - straight ahead, no frills.  Seems to take a certain
    amount of pride in keeping it simple and that some of it is harder
    than it looks.  As for his chops, he says he gets them off in other
    projects outside the band.
    
    When asked about DLR, he had a great quote.  "The problem with Dave
    was that he was onstage 25 hours a day".  I can believe it.
    
    /rick
    

>>    The first two DLR albums were (IMHO) infinitely better than anything
>>    VH has come out with since DLR left.
    
>    Not according to the pop charts or sales.
    
    I don't go by the pop charts or sales in determining what's "better".
    
    "According to the pop charts or sales" Madonna is "better" than either
    Van Halen incarnation!
    
    	db

    
    	And Michael Jackson is the best.  8^)
    

    Wow! I never made the Michael Bolton connection before.
    
    I can picture him singing "How will I know when it's Love" clear as day.
    
    Maybe he should cover it.  8-)

    RE: Mr. Anthony ...
    
    OK OK ... I'm sorry I said he sucks. I'm sure that, in fact, he does
    not. However ...
    
    I put the cans on and sat in a dark room listening to OU812 to see
    if I am being too harsh. I even went out and bought Balance. These
    are the only two VH CDs I have to study. I still don't hear it ...
    competent? ... I suppose. Is that enough? I guess it is for VH fans.
    
    I appear to be the lone voice here, and am bucking popular opinion.
    I can handle that ... nothing new for me. I still think Sammy is a
    good singer, and I still think Anthony is the weak link, musically,
    in VH's chain.
    
    After several hours of intensely listening on the headphones, I had
    to pop my Alternate Quartet CD in to clear my head!!   ;-)
    
    Theo

    It'll clear your house of rodents too!
    
    :-) :-) :-)
    

    Umm, okay Michael Anthony sucks.  But hey, who the hell listens to
    bassists like him anyway?   I mean, if you wanna hear someone play
    bass, you listen to Dream Theater, not VanHalen.
    
    Bass players provide the line with which one plays LEAD over anyway.
    :-)

    
    	And vocals are breaks between guitar solos.
    
    	8^)
    

    >  I mean, if you wanna hear someone play bass, you listen to Dream
    > Theater, not VanHalen.
    
    If *I* wanna hear someone play bass, I listen to Vic Wooten of the
    Flecktones.
    
    	db

    RE: .246
    
    What he said ...

    Re: .244
    
    I thought I said that in .235?
    
    
    BIG :-)  !!