Conference napalm::guitar

    I use Windex on mine - doesn't leave an oily film like a polish does so
    finger prints aren't quite as bad.  BUT, my Kramer has a black finish so
    finger prints will always be there.  I could shine my Strat with
    sandpaper and no one could tell ...
    
    
    					Scary

    I usually just wipe 'em down with a polishing cloth. I'm not too
    particular about looks.
    
    But, cleaning the fingerboard, that's a different story. I was
    getting sick of the way my Strat was feeling (especially compared 
    with the feel of somebody's new maple neck Tele, no names mentioned).
    I took the strings off, went over the entire fingerboard with #0000
    steel wool (using a fair amount of pressure), then wiped the finger-
    board down with a paper towel sprayed with a little Murphy's Oil Soap,
    then polished it with a dry paper towel. THen I put new strings on.
    
    What an amazing difference!!!

    Windex?.....Ouch ! I would stay away from windex as it contains
    ammonia, and other strong detergents that can dry out the wood,
    and harm the finish.
    
    The best way to care for guitars and other wooden musical instruments,
    is with a Tres Amigo kit. The kit contains a bottle of pure lemon oil
    (with no other additives) and pure carnuba wax, (with no additives like
    silicon or bee's wax). 
    
    First you clean the guitar with lemon oil. Even with lacquer, instruments 
    are still quite porous. Lemon oil is absorbed into the wood and 
    moisturizes it as it cleans. It displaces any other moisture (ie water)
    from the wood. Lemon oil is excellant for rosewood or ebony fretboards.
    I use it liberally, sometimes applying a heavy coat to the fretboard
    and leave it on overnight, then wipe the residue off the next day. I 
    find I never have to use anything like Fast-Fret, or Finger-Ease when 
    the fretboard is well oiled with Lemon oil. I find, if you get a clean 
    dry cloth, and saturate it with lemon oil, then place the cloth in a 
    zip-lock bag after each use, it provides a good cleaning cloth you can
    reuse anytime to wipe smudges, or clean the neck.
    
    The carnuba wax is applied like car wax. You rub it in, allow to dry
    to a white residue, then wipe it clean. Don't wax the fretboard unless
    it is a lacquered board like a maple Fender neck.
    
    This kit does a beautiful job, but obviously takes a bit longer than
    using aerosol polish. I generally use the Tres Amigo kits each time
    I do a string change. I find that you go through a lot more lemon oil 
    than you do carnuba wax. The kit contains equal portions of both. Tres 
    Amigo also sells large 16 oz. bottles of lemon oil. Tres Amigo kits sell
    for about $4.00, and the 16 oz. bottles of lemon oil are about $6.00.
    
    If your guitar includes any brass parts, it is often necessary to
    remove tarnish from the finish. You could use products like Brasso to
    clean these parts, but they are rather harsh, and if you spill them on
    wooden surfaces, they dull the finish. I have found that baking soda
    and water works just as well, and does not effect wooden finishes 
    like brass cleaners.
    
    Check it out. Use it once, and I guarentee, you'll be hooked.
    
    Mark Jacques
    

    Only thing is, I read that it's *very* much more hard work to
    refinish a guitar that's had wax/oil used on the painted bits. As you
    say, it gets through the finish into the wood and has to be got back
    out again if a new lasting finish is to be applied. 
    
    I don't know how much of this is rubbish, of course. People who
    refinish guitars have a vested interest in persuading you not to
    look after the original finish!
    
    Richard.

I use SIT guitar polish, because I gave cans of this stuff to all my guitarist
friends a couple of years ago for Xmas and the stuff mysteriously founds it's 
way back into my guitar case...  ;)

jc (Who doesn't polish much but wipes his neck off)

    I'm no expert on refinishing, but I have done lot's of wooden furniture
    and a couple of guitars. Before refinishing, you generally have to
    strip the old finish first. There are several ways to do this, but
    I find the best way is to use Formby's furniture refinisher. The
    methods that I would not use include using stripease (with a scraper),
    heat stripers, or actually sanding the old finish off. All these
    methods can damage the wood. Formby's furniture refinisher softens
    the old finish just enough to allow you to remove it with a fine
    steelwool. It is so mild, that I have used it without gloves, and it
    doesn't irritate my skin very much. It does however contain naptha
    which has a tendency to dry out the wood. Even if an item has been
    well oiled with lemon oil for years, the naptha tends to leave the
    wood dried out. You should have no problem applying a new finish 
    once the old finish is removed. Once the new finish is completely
    cured, you should begin treating it with lemon oil regularly. If
    you don't treat it with lemon oil, the wood will absorb water from
    the air. 
    
    I would agree that using anything other than lemon oil and carnuba wax 
    would tend to leave a lot of residue that is not good for the wood, and 
    looks unsightly. Silicon is perhaps one of the worst things you can use 
    on wood (IMHO). I know a guy that owns a furniture factory, and his worst 
    fear is getting saw blades and other tools that have been coated with 
    silicon. Once the silicon gets onto the surface of untreated wood, there 
    is virtually no way of salvaging the wood. The wood will not take a stain 
    or varnish, and there is no way to remove it. It is also very difficult 
    to remove from saw blades and tools. He uses a solution to clean new 
    blades before they are used and it takes several applications to remove 
    all the silicon before he will use them in his shop. If a blade coated
    with silicon is used, it get's onto the wood, and is spread to the saw
    table, and throughout his shop, causing mega problems.
    
    In other words, don't use any polishes that contain silicon.
    
    Mark

    Well I have never seen the TRES AMIGO KIT in the UK, but I do use
    the lemon oil...
    
    I am glad to here that I will not have damaged the finish on my
    LP.  Do LP's have a lacquered finish, or are they polished (my LP
    is a `89 model so only cost around �800 but is now almost �1000).
    
    If the use of a polish could cause probs, should I only buy the
    Gibson polish?
    
    And last of all are there any ingredients in FAST FRET that could
    harm the finish on the neck, as I have found that with new FAST
    FRET sticks, there tends to be an oily residue on the back of the
    neck, which I wipe of after applying?
    
    Bob

    Noticed Kramer polish in a store and it's ingrediants were alcohol and
    water, so I tried  mixing up some and it cleans good. I don't like wax
    too much.

    
    I have been using the Martin pump-bottle polish for quite a while
    on a Fender Strat and it seems to work very well.  Also, using a
    trick from Stanley Clarke printed in an old issue of GUITAR PLAYER,
    I wipe down the strings with after shave, being very careful, of
    course, not to get any on the finish.
    
    Stanley, I believe, used Aqua Velva.  I kind of base it on the
    place we're playing...Old Spice for the dives, Brute for the
    high schools, Polo for the more upscale place...okay, okay, it's
    joke!  Seriously, I just buy a couple of those "trial-size" aftershaves
    and keep them in the pocket of my guitar case.
    
    Given the smoky atmosphere of the place we play in, and its tendency
    to dry the neck and the strings, I always carry a can of Finger
    Ease with me, too. The sales guy at a rather well-known, paternally-named
    music store told me Finger Ease would remove the finish from my guitar.
    After 8 years, I see no evidence of that!
    
    There does seem to be a snob-thing with some players about using it,
    though.  Some guys say, rather disdainfully, "I can't believe you use
    that stuff."
    
    Anyhow, back to the subject at hand:  In a pinch, I've used Lemon
    Pledge.  I don't know if this a bad idea or not. All I know is that
    I hate the terrible smell of my guitar come Sunday morning.  Frequent
    cleaning seems to be a necessary evil.
    
    Brian
    
    P.S.
    
    Where in the local (MA) area is the TRES AMIGO kit for sale?  I'd
    like to try that.
    
    

The Tres Amigos stuff is really good.

I had a 16 oz. bottle of lemon oil, lasted me for a few years.  I've never
replenished with that, but I found some pure lemon oil distributed
by Pledge Inc.  The ingredients seem pretty simple.  Lemon oil, distilled
water, so I've been using that.

Be REAL carefull of the AMONIA stuff... 

For stings, I just use a gotten rag and a dab of Isopropyl Alchohol.
Wipe em down a few times...  taking care not to get too much on the
fret board. 

Another thing that I do now and then..

about one every two months, I'll take all the stings off, instead of chaning 
them one at a time, get a small cup file it with alchohol, and get a soft tooth
brush.  I Cover the body with a cotten rag, and using the tooth brush, I clean
out the nooks and cranneys of the bridge, blowing all residue out after that
with compressed air.  Brings a lot of brilliance back into the tone once
the sledge and dust is out-a-there.  Try it sometime.  I find it does bring
back some tone..

    Tres Amigo products are available from MacDuff's Music on route 9
    in Shrewsbury (between Spags and Leiser).
    
    Again, I would avoid using water, alcohol, *ammonia*, **silicon**, or 
    materials with unknown elements on wood. I believe finger ease contins
    silicon and therefore should be avoided. I have used Fast-Fret and it
    seems to be quite inert, but it tends to leave a residue that has to 
    be removed, so I prefer to avoid this too. If you lube the fingerboard
    with plenty of lemon oil, you shouldn't need anything else. You really
    can't over-apply lemon oil, as the wood will only absorb what it can
    hold. The rest will remain on the surface, and can easily be wiped
    away. Someone mentioned lemon oil from Pledge. I would read the label,
    and make sure it is 100% pure lemon oil. If it containes anything else,
    avoid using it.
    
    Why gamble with solutions with unknown side effects, when you can use
    something that is a sure bet ??
    
    Mark 

    
    
    	Mark, I've got a Lemon Oil question??  Sounds like a daytime TV
    soap advertisement, huh??  Anyway, I read a while back here that Lemon
    Oil was a no-no cause it caused the wood to shrink around the frets or
    some such thing??  Have you ever heard of that??  Will the person who
    said it refresh my memory??
    
    Regards,
    Steve

    I'm no expert, but in my mind, when wood absorbs any kind of moisture 
    it tends to swell if anything, not shrink. As wood drys out, it shrinks. 
    I have never heard of any bad side effects from using pure lemon oil.
    
    Think of wood as a sponge. When you wet a sponge, it swells and becomes
    very heavy. When you squeeze the water out of a sponge, it shrinks,
    and becomes much lighter. When a dry sponge comes in contact with any
    kind of moisture it will draw the moisture in until it becomes fully
    saturated. Once saturated, the sponge will not absorb any more water.
    Untreated (dry) wood will also absorb any moisture it comes in contact
    with. Wood treated with any kind of oil will not absorb *any* moisture. 
    Many oils, however, have a detrimental effect on wood. Lemon oil is
    considered to be the best thing to use on wood because it is inert, 
    and it drys fully, leaving no sticky residue.
    
    All I can say is if you have never used Tres Amigo cleaning kits,
    you owe it to yourself (and your guitar) to try it at least once.
    
    Mark

    
    
    
    
    	Thanks, Mark... yep, I HAVE used tres amigoes cleaning stuff, as a
    matter of fact I use the lemon oil to clean up the guck that gets left
    behind by the masking tape, when I do a fret job... works like a champ,
    I just got a little concerned when I read that other note... Hmmmmmm
    can't even find the damn thing now, maybe it was some kind of ugly
    flashback ;^)

   I think the note you're referencing was in a discussion about cleaning
   _fretboards_.  It was "noted" (har, har) that if you use too much oil on
   a rosewood board (in particular) it *could* swell the wood to the point
   of having an effect on the frets.  It was also noted that you shouldn't
   use lemon oil on a fretboard because it can interact with finger oils
   and produce a really bad smell.

   -- Sam

    No repair person, manufacturer  or luthier I have ever dealt with
    recommends oiling lacquer-finished guitars. In fact, a number of them
    (including Roger Borys, Bob Benedetto, & Jimmy D'Aquisto) are strongly
    against using anything except a soft cloth for normal maintenance.
    
    John Carruther's columns in the Oct & Nov 1978 issues of GP explain how
    to maintain any type of finish. He  says not to use any oils on a
    guitar, even on the fretboard.
    
    While a case can be made for minimal fretboard oiling, none can be made
    for oiling a lacquer-finished body or neck. Over the years, excess oil
    dulls the tone, can loosen binding and can actually cause deterioration
    of the wood. It may make the guitar look shiny, but it is in fact
    detrimental to the long-term health of the instrument.
    
    Wiping the guitar with a a soft cloth after using, and occasional
    waxing (I use either Gibson or Martin liquids, sometime Pledge on the
    neck) is all that a guitar should ever need. Really bad deposits can be
    removed with mineral spirits or the appropriate grade of Meguiras
    polishing compound, followed by their sealer and some wax.
     
    
    Danny W. 

    
    
    
    	Yeah, I only use it on rosewood fingerboards... I never though that
    it made sense to use oil over laquer, cos I could never figure out how
    it could get through to the wood underneath... course my (ahem) new
    strat has a maple neck.. so I'll be out of the oilin' business all
    together. ;^)

    My kramer felt bad so I washed it in the tub with alot of water and
    alcohol. Used a finger brush for the rosewood.
    
    Liked the effect so did it inside of the jazz guitar I bought used
    because it smelled like perfume. Let it dry in the sun.
    
    The instruments are better to play for me, but I do like to wax every
    5 years or so. Vegitable oil removes Surfer Stickers and the like.
    

Like Wow dude...

Can you get me some of that stuff ?

;)

    Since noone has mentioned it to date, I might as well be the first;
    What guitar polish do you find to be the best? I know that there are
    several different brands on the market. Do you find that there are
    any in particular that do a better job than most at keeping the finish
    on your axe nice and shiney? Better for protection?
    
    Mike

    I use that Tres Amigos stuff when I bother to do it.  The carneuba(sp)
    wax is kind of a pain to get buffed out, but once it's done, it resists
    fingerprints and stuff very well.
    
    Buck just uses Pledge...
    
    Greg

    
    
    	Martin Guitar Polish.
    
    P.K.

    ditto - Martin Guitar Polish

Jim

    >Since noone has mentioned it to date, I might as well be the first;<
    
    You're kidding, right? See .17, as well as the many other notes
    scattered throughout the conference on this subject.
    
    Martin and Gibson polishes both work well. The Martin is a little
    thinner. I prefer it on flattops. I use the Gibson polish on most of my
    guitars, though. And there's nothing wrong with Lemon Pledge for
    virtually any solidbody.
    
    I find myself repeating this over and over, and now seems alike a good time
    to say it once again-use a clean chamois or flannelette to clean your
    guitar after every use and don't use polish too often. My Martin and
    Gibson bottles are still half full and I've had them forever and I've owned
    a lot of guitars. Unless you leave your guitar out in the rain, it
    really doesn't need to be waxed.
    
    Danny W.

    RE: Glh
    
    Yeah, I use Pledge -- but, since all my guitars have a solid color
    finish, what's the difference?!?  If I had a wood-grained guitar,
    I would use something *nice*.

    re: Buckmonster
    
    I hear it works good on strings too...
    ;^)

    Those of you who are still uncomfortable about not waxing your guitar
    every chance you get should read the column in Acoustic Guitar Magazine
    May/June 1994, which points out that the guitar's finish provides all
    the protection the guitar needs. It starts off:
    
    "Don't oil or wax your guitar! There are no oiling regimens that must
    be followed. Wood is dead, mummified tissue. It doesn't "breathe" or
    have to be "fed" in any way. Wood doesn't "starve" for oil and it won't
    crack, shrivel or die if you neglect to apply the correct commercial
    polish, oil, cream, lotion or was at the proper intervals."
    
    Remember, kiddies, you heard it here first.
    
    Danny W.

The only caveat I would add to what Danny said would be that the wood in 
acoustic guitars can dry out.  You should take steps to prevent this by
keeping it in a case when not in use and using a Damp-It or other humidifier.

Jim

I never wax or oil my guitars anyway.  If one gets dirty, I just wipe it off 
with a clean rag - very slightly damp, if necessary.  It's a policy instituted
out of sheer laziness and continued because it seems to work (and I'm still 
lazy).

Bob

I'm lazy too, so I just dunk it in the bathtub and towel it down
after.

Droid

    
    I polish all my Spanish guitars with Oil of Ol� (tm).
    
    Raoul

<- :*)

re                        <<< Note 1778.31 by E::EVANS >>>


> The only caveat I would add to what Danny said would be that the wood in 
> acoustic guitars can dry out.  You should take steps to prevent this by
> keeping it in a case when not in use and using a Damp-It or other humidifier.

	Right.   But does it dry out from the inside ?   The outside 
typically has a hard and probably impervious finish to it {except 
mahogany instruments} but the inside looks to be more like "bare 
wood".  Is it "bare wood" or is it somehow 'sealed' to ensure that the 
wood absorbs/gives_up moisture at the same rate from each side of the 
wood ?	 This is a fairly standard practice in cabinet making.


> Jim

	Reg

    The inside is bare wood. Always maintain the proper humidity. I use
    Herco Guard-Fathers in my acoustic guitars and keep the house
    humidified in Winter. I don't worry about the solids and semi's and
    they seem to have survived on their own.
    
    Danny W.

>        The inside is bare wood.
    
    Not strictly true.  The inside of my Alvarez-Yairi DY-50 has a finish
    on it.  It's not the heavy glossy finish that's on the outside, but
    there is some sort of finish there.
    
    Greg

    
    	But but, is it water that's leaving the wood, or oil? Or both?
    
    	Scott

    Oil.  I drain the oil from my car into the soundhole of my acoustic
    when I have to change it to prevent this from happening.  Keeps the
    guitar sounding great, and saves me the cost of one of those little
    pans to drain the stuff into.
    
    Greg

    I'd be tempted to say the inside of *fine* guitars is bare wood, but I
    won't. (I know, I already did. The jury is instructed to ignore that
    remark.) 
    
    Most guitars makers do not put a finish on the inside of their guitars.
    It is generally thought that will age better if the inside is
    untreated, and many luthiers claim that putting any finish on the
    inside is detrimental to tone. There is a dissenting school of thought,
    but the vast majority of guitars I've seen have bare insides. 
    
    Danny W.

>    but the vast majority of guitars I've seen have bare insides. 
    
     Yabbut Danny, the pickup routes on my Strat AND my Les Paul were
     finished. %^) %^)

     Neal

My Kohno classical (worth a couple grand) has a thin coat of varnish on the 
inside (or maybe it's the beer I spilled in it at one of those rowdy classical 
jams), but my wife's Alvarez Yairi is bare inside.  

Bob

    I always tell guitarists not to polish their guitars unless it needs
    it, and point out that regularly wiping it down with a flannelette or
    chamois eliminates the need for most polishing. However, there are
    times when a guitar needs some finish clean up, for which I keep a
    variety of grades of Meguires as well as both Gibson and Martin guitar
    polishes and Lemon Pledge.
    
    On my last visit to Gruhn Guitars, I got a complimentary bottle of
    Gruhn Glaze, touted as an all purpose cleaner/polish. I've tried it on
    a few guitars without any problems, but wasn't sure if it did anything
    special.
    
    I have a guitar with a very dark, hand-applied  varnish sunburst that
    looks like glass, but had an area of oxidation on the top, lower bout,
    treble side where one's arm rests, and a smudge on the top next to the
    fretboard extension. Neither of these would come off with the finest
    grade of Meguires or regular polish, and I've been afraid to attack
    them with anything more abrasive because the dark finish shows any
    imperfection and is very delicate, so I've just ignored it for many
    years.
    
    I decided to try a couple of drops of Gruhn Glaze applied to
    flannelette and rubbed out with a dry flannelette and chamois. Both
    marks disappeared and after a week have not come back (some polishes
    hide finish problems, which reappear after the polish rubs off). I'm
    really impressed--this stuff seems better than anything else I've used.
    If you try it, use it very sparingly, rub very lightly (it has a mild
    amount of cut which might leave marks on some finishes if you use a
    heavy hand) and keep dry buffing until it's gone.
    
    
    Danny W.
    

Danny,

	A few months ago I used one of those Meguliars polishing substances
on an instrument which had lost it's shine due to the dirt on the instrument.
Martin polish did not help at all and actually the dirt/grime seemed to protect
the finish over the years. :^)

The first thing I noticed was the smell that this stuff put out and it reminded
me of car wax. Is this an petroleum based product? For some reason I seem to
remember that it wise to avoid using a petroleum based product on something 
like this on an instrument.

	It did do a really nice job and brought back a shine to the instrument
that was lost,however I seem to remember the smell and everytime your rubbed 
against it,you heard this noise. Very similiar to car wax. Time seemed to 
eliminate the plus I used some polish on it to try to get rid of the noise 
and smell.  
	I recently have tried to get what seems to be a marks (circle)from a 
small drop of water off a finish. Martin polish doesn't do the job,is this
what you removed with the "Gruhn" glaze polish? I also have some really fine
minor scratches I like to remove,any suggestions?


							Rick


							Rick 

    Rick:
    
    They are in fact auto polishes but they have been long used by luthiers
    and repairpersons for guitar work. Don't forget that many Fender and
    Gibson colors are auto paints.
    
    The Gruhn Glaze seems to do well on the kind of minor problems that are
    too tough for plain polish, but too risky for serious attacking. I
    don't know how well it removes scratches, but it works very well on the
    whitish haze that sometimes develops from skin acids attacking the
    finish, and seems to be a good balance between a polish and an abrasive
    cleaner.
    
    Danny W.