Conference napalm::guitar

    different kind sond different 
    strat thin   cuts through hendrix
    tele   real thin	country  stones  springsteen
     leo fender design interchangaable parts, opened market for
    	modifications and cloned Kramer Charvel Hamer 
    Gibsons   SG all mahogany thick sound  santana early clapton
    		les Paul  Guns and Roses, sammy hager
    	Humbucker: gibson, fatter sound
    	single coil fenders thin
    

RE < Note 1680.1 by MRVAX::ALECLAIRE >

	I find this a little hard to understand.  Allow me to re-format and you 
can tell me if I got it right.

	Type		    Sound		  Examples
 	----		    -----		  --------
Fenders:
        strat 		    thin   		  cuts through hendrix
	tele   		    real thin		  country  stones  springsteen

Gibsons:
	SG (all mahogany)   thick sound  	  santana early clapton
	Les Paul  	    ? (kind of sound?)	  Guns and Roses, sammy hager


Note:	leo fender design(ed) interchangaable parts, opened market for
	modifications (-> and cloned Kramer Charvel Hamer <-)
		      ---------------------------------------
				^
				| don't understand this (does this mean that
		Kramers, Charvels and Hamers are clones of Fenders?)

Pickups:    	Fender single coil:	 thin
	    	Gibson Humbucker: 	 fatter sound
    

RE < Note 1680.1 by MRVAX::ALECLAIRE >

	If Fenders are thin sounding, does that mean if I buy a Fender I'll 
always be limited to a thin sound?  Or are there hybrids?  What if I have a 
single-coil on a Gibson-style guitar?  Or can you put a humbucker on a strat?
Are these just cheap work-arounds or can you come up with a fairly flexible 
guitar by modifying?

	Dan
	

    Dan,  
    
    There are so many alternatives, the possibilities are almost endless.
    Any guitar can be modified, and lot's of modifications result in
    really good guitars. Some modifications result in butchery. Many
    purists like myself believe in leaving an instrument more or less
    stock, and if you are looking for a new sound, buy a new guitar.
    The two alternatives which are probably the best route to take are:
    
    A. Get a "Hybrid" instrument, which features a combination of single
    and dual-coil pickups on one instrument.
    
    B. Get an instrument with 2 dual-coil humbuckers and coil cut switches.
    Preferably, you would want a coil-cut switch for each pickup. This 
    allows you 8 differant combinations.
    
    	1. Single coil neck with single coil bridge
    	2. Single coil neck with dual coil bridge
    	3. dual coil neck with single coil bridge
    	4. Dual coil neck with dual coil bridge
        5. Single coil neck only
    	6. Dual coil neck only
    	7. Single coil bridge only
    	8. Dual coil bridge only
    
    	There are hybrids as well as guitars with coil cuts from many
    differant manufacturers. Limiting yourself to $300 does not necessarily
    rule out all possibiliies, but it does steer you to the lower end of
    most manufacturers lines. For instance $300 would probably get you a
    Charvette, but not a Charvel (Charvette is the lower priced Japanese
    offspring of Charvel).	
    
    	The next thing to consider is whether or not you want a Tremelo
    bar. The better tremelo bars are made by Kahler, and Floyd Rose. 
    There are also a few others for a little less money (ie. Wonderbar)
    
    	I would not lock myslef into a certain mindset until you have
    at least tried playing a few differant instruments. In your price 
    range, you probably won't find a Gibson Les Paul, or a good US
    Strat. You might consider a Japanese-made Fender Squire-Strat.
    I would look at Ibanez, Washburn, Peavey, Kramer, Charvette, etc.
    
    Good luck.
    Mark
    

    One thing to consider is that you can often save yourself some money by
    buying a guitar without a tremelo.  It's an expensive piece of hardware
    and if you're not into it, then you can often get a higher quality
    instrument for the same price.
    
    I think that for $300 you should be able to get a guitar you'll be
    happy with.  The first electric I bought was an Ibanez ST55 which was a
    beautiful tobacco sunburst finish, 24 fret neck, two humbuckers.  It
    was in very good condition and I only paid about $250 for it.  That was
    back in '82 and I just sold it to a friend for $225.  Deals are
    there...
    
    I'd say to get the best instrument for your money, look for the models
    that aren't trendy.  You can get a much better deal on an Ibanez
    Roadstar series guitar then on say a RG550 even though they originally
    sold for about the same price new because the RG550 is quite popular
    right now.
    
    I'd second the plug for the Fender Squire series.  If you like the
    Fender sound, these are good quality and reasonably priced.
    
    Greg

    yea, i had a Roadstar, it seemed like a great guitar for the bucks.
    I only play acoustic now (ovation legend), but if i had to have an
    electric, i'd get another roadstar. sure, it didn't sound as good as my
    friends Yahama, but that baby was 2000+ bucks. 

	On the other side, there are dozens of guitars with nice prices
	that are made in Korea that don't cut it. I won't name them here.

	Shop around. There are a lot of good US and Japan made electrics
	out there. I side with the suggestion that you start with a
	guitar that has lots of versatility. The 2 humbuckers with tap
	switches works great. My wife has a Gibson SG wired like that.
	We can get it to sound strat-ish but you have to hack a strat
	pretty badly to get it to sound like a Gibson.

	My preference is for High-Output single coils and neck-thru
	body construction w/a fixed tailpiece - a good rhythm guitar.
	So I got a Rickenbacker 610 new for $550.

	Outside of electronics, the most important thing is the feel.
	Don't be afraid to spend some time with the guitar.

	Also - one of the guitar mags has a special guitar buyers issue
	out now. Music Factory in Salem, NH had copies. I'm sure you
	can find a copy.

	Charlie B

RE < Note 1680.4 by MILKWY::JACQUES >

	I like your two suggestions.  Some good information there.  Can you
give me any brand names/model numbers that fit the bill for those?

	Regarding tremelo bars, I've been thinking that I want one.  It seems I
have never been able to get vibrato down when playing leads.  I realize some
people will consider that cheating, but who cares.  I'll probably never play
electric in public anyway.

	Thanks for the help.

	Dan

RE < Note 1680.5 by CSC32::G_HOUSE "Kittymania's running wild!" >

	You hit upon an important point.  I really want something that is
not trendy - i.e., fairly plain looking (or is that a trend? 8^).  I tend to
where solid clothes, choose fairly plain looking cars, etc.  I feel like
the plainer it is, the longer it will pass through fads and fashions.

	Is the Ibanez Roadstar a good suggestion?  In general, I've heard that 
Ibanez makes a good guitar.

	Dan

RE < Note 1680.7 by SMURF::BENNETT "from "Kingdom of the Bees"" >

>	On the other side, there are dozens of guitars with nice prices
>	that are made in Korea that don't cut it. I won't name them here.

	Errr, well then, where can you name them?  Seriously, when you make
a statement like that it tends to make me paranoid.  "Gee, I like this one
but I wonder if it's one of THEM!".  You know what I mean?  Is there any way
we can convey this information?  Mail, perhaps?

	Yes, I am definately looking for a versatile guitar.  I forget whether
I mentioned it in the base note or not, but I recently began to appreciate
the variety of sounds a friend can get out of his ES335.  I know I can't
afford one of those, but I'd like to get some of the sounds he gets.  I
used to have a strat copy and liked some of the sounds I got from that, too.
Versatility, I think, is the goal.

	Thanks for the help.

	Dan

	To sum up the information so far, I get the impression that I don't want
to get a strat because its inherently thin sounding.  If I go for another kind,
I can always thin out the sound by either using single coil or coil tapped
pickups.  But i'll have a hard time making a strat sound "thick" by simply 
changing pickups.  Am I right so far?

	So, if I don't want a strat, what do I want (particularly from companys 
that are less expensive, like Ibanez, Washburn, PV, etc.)?  It seems like most
of the guitars I see in musical instrument catalogs (like Music Emporium) are
some for ofr a strat copy.  Are there others to suggest?

	Dan

    re: NRPUR::DEATON
    
    No, buying a Strat does NOT necessarily mean that you'll get a *thin*
    sounds as does if you buy a Les Paul, you'll get a *fat* sound.
    
    There are virtually *hundreds* of variables to deal with when
    pertaining
    to "sound".
    
    Some of these variables are: pickups, amp, strings, fancy gadgetry,
    amp settings, git settings, etc, etc, etc,...
    
    FWIW,
    
    Mike

   One thing I've noticed is that many of the new, lower priced Japanese,
   etc, guitars use a "strat style" body/neck/bridge assembly type of 
   setup, and then put both single coils and humbuckers on it.  This gives
   you an inherent flexibility and is available on cheaper guitars.  (I saw
   a Kramer Stryker II in Daddy's with a Floyd Rose bridge, 2 single coils,
   1 humbucker, complete with a soft case for $249, used.  And Daddy's 
   isn't known for their earth-shaking deals.)

   And Mike (.-1) is right - there *are* a lot of variables to the sound.
   His Strat sounds completely different thru a Marshall than other Strats
   I've heard thru other amps.  And my Gibson sounds like a completely dif-
   ferent guitar thru my Kitty than it did thru my Peavey.

   -- Sam

    As far as ones to avoid, I'd say avoid the bottom line of any company. 
    I've had three Ibanez guitars that were wonderful, but I got a Roadstar
    120 (or something like that) which was the bottom of the line.  Strat
    shaped with two humbuckers.  The pickups were weak, the neck was poorly
    fretted and finished (you couldn't do much string bending...), and the
    tremelo (stock Strat style) WOULD NOT stay in tune.  I dumped it...
    
    I think Ibanez guitars are overall very good, but their entry level
    lines tend to leave something to be desired.  Same goes for Aria,
    Kramer, BC Rich, Washburn, and others.  
    
    Just play them and see what feels good for you.  If you like the feel,
    you can swap pickups/preamps/effects and such around and get a sound
    you like better, if you don't like the way it sounds when you get it.  
    
    I read recently where one luthier recommended listening to the acoustic
    quality of an electric guitar (unplugged) first and that would give you
    an idea of how the sustain and such will be.  That's certainly not the
    only test, but thinking about it, all the electric guitars I've liked
    were ones that I also enjoyed playing without an amp.
    
    Like I said before, for low priced guitars, I like the Fender Squire
    series (but would replace the pickups for myself) and I've had good
    luck with Ibanez (if you check it out before hand and don't buy the
    bottom of the line models).  
    
    If you like the 335 sound your friend gets, I'd suggest you look for
    something with humbucking pickups.  The 335s tend to sound pretty warm
    and that's what humbuckers will give you.  I've seen lots of cheap Les
    Paul copies around that have a good feel (with a little work).  Many of
    these are very inexpensive.  You may want to replace the pickups if
    someone hasn't done it before you, but at the prices these things go
    for, you still won't be out a lot.  
    
    I bought an Ibanez Les Paul copy that was pretty beat up for $50 a few
    years ago.  It was missing the bridge pickup when I got it, so I put in
    a nice DiMarzio and swapped out the tuners for a set of Gotohs.  For
    less then $150 total cash outlay, I got a guitar that screams and feels
    great (still looks pretty beat thought).  It needs more work now, but
    I've played it for several years...
    
    My friend had an old Aria 335 copy that he bought for $100 which I
    thought sounded cool.
    
    Greg

    What I meant is that a long time ago, Fender came up with the idea of
    bolt-on necks. 
    	The world was happy. The fender strat has single-coils, and to me
    sounds like the Treble control all the way up on an amp, and the bass
    all the way down.
    
    Then people wanted a thicker sound, more bassy, so they yanked the
    single coils and put in a humbucker.
    Eddie Van Halen's guitar in the beginning was like that.
    Then Kramer came along and sold a copy of that guitar ( Baretta )
    This differs from the Strat in a single pickup was mounted in a humbucker
    pickup muonting ring instead of on the pickgaurd. The tremelo was made by
    Floyd, the cavity is a little bigger.
    
    Given the same scale length,  you can replace a Kramer neck with a
    fender neck, or fender style neck. So , standardization in a way comes
    in. Kramers, Strats, Charvel, Jackson, Hamer, all use on bolt-on necks
    & the 25 1/2 " scale length, so you could buy a Fender-compatible neck
    and apply it to bodies from any of these.
    
    The differences then is the body-shape  and how the pickup cavities are
    routed and the tremelo ( diiferent trems have different routed
    cavities.
     Also the materials vary. My baretta, strats, are made of Ash.
    (there are different specires of ash, northern ash and swamp ash.)
    
    A few years ago alot of companies who were using floyd and
    floyd-compatible tremelos started what's called back-routing.
    This was a modification of the body-routing, maybe 1/4 or 1/2"
    removed under the trem, lets you pull the string tighter for an
    up-bend.
    The floyd became a significant improvement over the Fender trem's,
    the locking nut solved the problem of tuning loss when used on
    deep dives. On the old fenders, you hit a deep one, the thing came 
    back WAY out of tune. Now it's pretty much a standard design, with 
    alot of companies making floyd rose copies.
    
    There are some strat-type made with a neck that dosen't bolt on,
    instead the neck is carved out of the body. Said to increase resonence,
    but on the other hand, if you want to replace just the neck, you can't.
    If you break the neck ( I've never, but it happens ) the guitar 
    has is totaled for parts.
    Some companies use alder, lighter in weight. Some put flame maple
    veneer on a body. But the idea that of any of the bolt-ons, if it's 
    Fender compatible (25 1/2" scale) can use the same replacement
    neck.
    
    These are of course  generalizations. One strat will sound different
    than another strat, more importantly feel different. The neck may be a
    little thiner here or there, the particular peice of wood may be more
    or less resonant.
     
    At any price if a guitar just seems OK, then OK, but some guitars need
    not be expensive either just have something about them that makes it
    easier to play or sound better.  
    
    	I'd look for something that feels right and has a sound which 
    turns me on.  And you like the looks of. That's important too.
    
    Andrew

RE < Note 1680.15 by MRVAX::ALECLAIRE >

	Thanks, Andrew, for that explanation.

	I know about Gibsons and Fenders now.  Care to give some insight into 
the other brands (Kramers, Strats, Charvel, Jackson, Hamer, etc.)?  How would
you rate them, quality-wise?

	I saw a cheap electric the other day that played o.k..  It was an 
Epiphone solid body.  I couldn't tell what it might be trying to copy.  It had
two humbuckers and a non-locking tremelo bridge.  The bridge used rollers, 
though.  It seemed to go out of tune a bit from time to time, but that may have 
been due to my fooling around with the trem.  It sounded fairly nice through the
Roland JC77 amp.

	Dan

Funny as it may seem, one of my favorite axes of all time was a 
Hondo Strat copy...  Had a low-tech everything.  I screwed down the whammy
bar tight.  The only thing that was no good stock (IMHO) were the pickups.
They squeeled like a banshee at hi volume.  I replaced the lead pos. pickup
with an old seymour-duncan thingamabob humbucker and it wailed.

God I beat that guitar to death.  I finally broke the tailpiece and trashed it.

    Some of the hi end stuff is supported well, like Martin will fix some
    guitars on warrenty for the life of the owner. They cost an arm and a
    leg and a few other parts. I had mine fixed once, they did a
    super-excellent job. 
    
     I've never had any other service done after I bought one.
    All I can say about the others is look & play as much as you can.
    Consider buying used. I got the majority of my quiver that way.
    
    
    I like the last reply, he found something and plucked it till
    there wasn't a feather left. That means some to me, I'd rather
    see a dude with a well worn guitar who can play than a meat-king
    who isn't enjoying what he's doing.
    
    Find something that's fun and don't take it too seriously.
    

    
    I think you have to ask yourself Dan, what or who do you want to sound
    like. If you identify with some said axe hero out there and want to
    sound just like 'em, go for the gear.  If you want to just add some
    good electric guitar licks to your studio compositions, i'd recommend
    finding something you are comfortable playing and can afford.
    
    While buying clarinet and sax reeds for my kids one night, i played
    a couple of real cheapo's ($250-$300) which suprised me in the number
    of different sounds i could get.  Since I would be using these things
    almost exclusively in a studio, i'd probably just by a couple of
    relative cheap things with the above mentioned characteristics.
    I personally have never cared for strats or tele's - don't like the
    feel or sound. 
    
    
    

RE < Note 1680.19 by NAC::SCHUCHARD "Love them death beeps" >
    
>    I think you have to ask yourself Dan, what or who do you want to sound
>    like. 

	Well, as I said in my early notes, I don't know what I like.  That's why
I'm looking for versatility.

	Some questions for the guitarists at large...

	How much do you depend on the built-in tone controls on your guitar for
tonality?  If the answer is "much", then would I want to find a guitar with
tone controls for EACH pickup?  The Peavy T60 has just that, but I haven't
seen a lot (any, perhaps) of other guitars with such an arrangement.

	If the answer is "little", then can I assume that switching pickups 
takes care of most of your tonal needs (as well as switching amp channels)?
In this case, would a single tone control be enough?

	What about volume boosting?  Do you mainly use the amp to take care
of switching from backup volume to lead volume?

	Dan

> If the answer is "much", then would I want to find a guitar with
>tone controls for EACH pickup?  The Peavy T60 has just that, but I haven't
>seen a lot (any, perhaps) of other guitars with such an arrangement.

Most Gibsons (like the LesPaul) have seperate tone controls for each.
I like tone control on my guitars...Basically for the versatility.
I need that because I like to play metal, but play a wide variety of
music in the band I'm involved with...mostly pop rock from the 60's and 70's...


jc

    Maybe I'm in the minority, but I get the majority of my tonal changes
    either from pickup switching or from the effects/amps that I'm using.
    
    If you're using it mostly in a studio, I think there would be more
    opportunity to use the guitars tone controls to fine tune the sound.
    
    Basically I'm just a hack, so I don't need to fine tune it...  8^)
    
    Greg

    I have the tone controls on my guitars wide open and I make all the 
    adjustments to tone somewhere downstream.  
    
    Many guitars have passive tone controls, which is composed of an
    RC network.  The capacitor bleeds high frequencies to ground and the
    resistor determines the corner frequency for the filter.  As you roll off
    the tone control, less and less high frequency information is allowed
    to pass.  It has always been my opinion that this effect kills any chance
    the pickup has for clarity or a sparkling sound; it always sounds like 
    someone's muffling the sound of my guitar.  Hence, I rely on the
    more complex and hopefully better tone controls available in an amp or
    audio processor.
    
    Some guitars have active tone controls, which means the tone control
    circuitry has some devices which require power to operate...typically
    a 9v. battery or two in a bay in the back of the guitar.  I've got 
    practically no experience with this type of control...can someone else
    comment?
    
    There are variants: I think it was the Gibson ES-345 that had the 
    Varitone switch (someone once said this 6-position switch gave one
    good sound and five versions of bad ;^] ).
    
    I have found that a surprising amount of tone variation is available 
    through your hands, both in how the string is fretted and how it is
    struck.
    
    Regards,
    John K.
    

    
    I use the tone controls on my guitar all the time.  Using the tone
    controls on the amp isn't the answer since you have to walk over to
    the amp, etc.  The tone I like for clean playing is much brighter than
    what I like for dirty playing.  Most modern players have moved to a
    "no-tone-control" attitude.  The effect, to my ears, is way too much
    high end.  "Sparkle" when clean becomes "obnoxious" when distorted.
    
    							Brian

           
    I too never use the tone controls on my guitars, I just set them
    to 10 and leave 'em! I have enough on my mind when I'm playing without    
    having to worry about the treble and volume knobs (thats what volume 
    pedals were invented for!).
                        
    I have the treble setting on my amp turned to 0, whilst my bass, 
    middle and presence settings are all on 10. I control the tonality 
    difference with my FX settings. 
                                       
    I find the above amp/guitar setup gives me a great clean tone (not 
    too much high end, kind of bluesy) and squeals like a big when I cut 
    in distortion.        
           
    Cheers,
    -Tony  

    I'm constantly fiddling with not only the tone controls on my Les Paul,
    but I use also get alot of tone variations by mixing the pickup volume
    controls when both pickups are on.  My bridge pickup sounds much better
    when using distortion if the tone knob is set very low (1 or 2).  When
    I have both pickups on, I like to roll the volume of the neck pickup up
    or down to vary the tone.  There's an "infinite" amount of settings...
    
    Whatever works for you!
    
    Steve D.

   Interesting to see the different opinions on this...

   In addition to someone a few back mentioning the difference between 
   active and passive controls, some guitars also offer different control
   configurations.  Such as, many Gibson dual pickup designs give you one
   volume and tone control for each pickup, whereas the 3 pickup Strat 
   gives you one volume for the whole guitar and tone controls that affect
   only two of the pickups.

   Personally, I have a Gibson as described above and have found I can get 
   a couple of nice/different sounds by varying the volume controls when 
   both pickups are on but for the most part leave everything wide open.
   I find the tone controls (like a previous noter) simply "flatten" the
   sound without making it any better.  I think if I had a "master volume"
   like the Strat I'd probably use it more.

   -- Sam

	Thanks all for the word about onboard controls.  

	Oh yeah, about pickup select switches...  I've seen guitars with simple
three-position switches (bridge position/meck position/both) and I've seen
guitars with multiple setting switches (say, five or six).  What do you get
for the extra positions?

	Dan

    
    On most two pickup guitars, you have only three possibilities, neck only,
    bridge only or both.  On a three pickup Strat-style guitar you have seven
    possibilities, each pickup alone (3), all possible pairs (3), all three on
    (1).  
    
    The original Strat switch had three positions, for one pickup at a
    time.  Strat owners found that jamming the switch in a "In-between"
    position gave you two extra options of two pickups each (neck and
    middle or bridge and middle).  Most new Strats now have five-way
    switches as standard.  To get the other two options (neck and bridge
    pickup together, all three pickups together), some Strats come
    with three toggle switches, to turn pickups on and off individually. 
    This gives you all seven possibilities but you can't go from one to
    another by hitting just one switch in some cases.    
    
    Some times the extra toggles are for coil-tapping and phase reversal.
    Example, on older B.C. Riches, there are *five* toggle switches plus a
    rotary switch.  The one large toggle is a three-way pickup selector. 
    The six-way rotary is a Varitone, there is a toggle to turn a preamp
    on/off, one coil tap toggle for each pickup and a phase reversal
    switch.  Whew...I once calculated 144 possible combinations of those
    switches.  So how many do I use while playing?  None of them.  I found
    one setting I liked and use it all the time.
    
    Some older guitars are just plain weird.  Among instruments that have
    unique switching setups are old Hagstroms, Fender Jazzmasters and
    Jaguars, old Gretsches and Danelectros.  
    
    							Brian

Greg,

Doncha you use your mid-boost knob on yer Charvel ??

jc

	I build guitars (often custom building them for specific individuals),
	and I haven't added tone controls on a 6 string (only 1 on a bass
	guitar) in the last 14 I made. Why? Most people leave them set to
	full treble (ie, no frequency roll off) all of the time. In my case,
	I find that between the different tones of the bridge versus the
	neck pickup & the ability to pick either or both & volume controls
	allows me to get any tone that I want.

	Active electronics on board is a different matter, as you can do
	more than tweek the treble (ie, reduce it), however, Active 
	Electronics seems to cause problems with my stomp box compressor 
	(I feel that the compressor should be the first effect in any 
	system) & things only get noisier. If you don't happen to use 
	a compressor, I think bass cut/boost and treble cut/boost to 
	be quite useful. On passive tone controls, treble cut is the all 
	that is available & doesn't complement what the guitar amplifier 
	can do. I use a Twin Reverb & think that the amp can do more 
	with full signal. So, all there are on my 6 strings are volume 
	controls & pickup selectors.

								Jens

>	I build guitars (often custom building them for specific individuals),
>	and I haven't added tone controls on a 6 string (only 1 on a bass
>	guitar) in the last 14 I made. Why? Most people leave them set to
>	full treble (ie, no frequency roll off) all of the time.
    
    I disagree with you, Jens, I make ample use of all of the controls on
    my ES-345. I especially like the lead sound with the treble turned all
    the way up on the bridge pickup and all the way down on the neck pickup
    (a nice trick that Eric Clapton used way back when he used to play
    Gibsons), but I'd never use this tone for rhythm. I vary the brightness
    of my sound a lot from song to song, and I do it by setting up the amp
    to be at max-bright with the treble controls all the way up on the
    guitar, then backing off as appropriate for the style of the song I am
    playing.
    
    I will grant you one thing, however, I'm probably not your average Joe
    guitar player in this respect. I even make use of the Vari-Tone switch,
    which most people, even 345 owners, think is an abomination. The vast
    majority of guitarists probably do as you say and just crank up the
    tone all the way. One of the reasons I've never found a good Strat I
    felt comfortable with was the limited range of tones that are
    available (now all you Strat lovers can burn me at the stake).
    
    - Ram

	I was reading an interview w/EVH and when asked about his guitar
	wiring he stated that tone controls weren't wired in.

	Charlie B. another_hack

	BTW: I use the tone controls onboard. I try to set up my amp to
	be as sensitive as possible to what I do at the guitar.

   A *lot* of new guitars on the market (certain models by Kramer, BC Rich,
   etc) that I've seen don't even have tone controls anymore.  A volume
   control, pickup selector, and maybe a coil tap switch.

   -- Sam

I have active p/u's on my guitar and find that the differences I can 
get onboard are great for changing the characteristic tones of it.
It's got a mid-boost and a treble and I can emulate a LesPaul sound pretty 
well, a telecaster twang, a strat thick 'n' muddy, a rick twang etc...

I generally use the MIDI rack to "shape" the room I'm playing in.  The trouble
is, the controls on the guit are pretty tuff to get used to.

jc

>Greg,
>
>Doncha you use your mid-boost knob on yer Charvel ??
    
    Yeah, I've been using it more lately, but I tend to use it like a
    switch, either on or off.  I find I get a better "traditional" kind of
    guitar sound with it rolled all the way off.
    
    Greg

Greg,

I find that with just my neck pickup on, the tone all the way up, and the
midboost all the way off I get the perfect twangy telecaster sound, 
ALA-Long Cool Woman by The Hollies.  With the bridge only and everything 
wide open, I get a Gibsonish tone, and by selecting different pickups
along with the lead humbucker, I get the different LPish tones that LP's
get when the toggle their three ways.  To me, it's pretty versatile.

jc

    I use the tone controls if the guitar has them
    
    
    RE: the BCRich's with all the switches:
    	there are 2 preamps and 1 coil tap switch  ,
    	not 1 preamp and 2 coils (picky me)
    
    
    	the Varactor is really a simple thing, 
    	it is a selector switch between different sized capacitors,
    	bypass, thru 5 sizes, smallest to largest

    RE -1
    
    Only the Bich had 2 preamps on board.  The Mockingbord, Eagle, and
    Seagull all had the following controls:
    
    o Master Volume knob
    o Master Tone Knob
    o Preamp Volume
    o Preamp on/off switch
    o 6 Way Tone Knob (like on PRS)
    o Coil tap for each dimarzio
    o Phase switch
    
    Cheers,
    Buck

    OH, the nit got me.
    Guess it shows I only got a Bich.
    

	Well, last week I finally got an electric.  I picked up a Les Paul
copy from a fellow DECie and am pleased as punch!  It has a Seymor Duncan
in the bridge position and the stock humbucker in the neck.  It has a really
nice feel to it.  Now to find an amp (cheap)!

	Any suggestions on how a long-time acoustic guitarist should approach
the change in equipment/style?

	Dan

	Oh yeah...

	When I put the pickup switch in the middle position, it does something 
weird - The sound changes to something far more reminiscient of that old Strat
copy I once had - and I find that in order to bring the volume *up*, I have to 
turn the neck pickup *down*.  Is that some special feature?

	Dan

>	When I put the pickup switch in the middle position, it does something 
>weird - The sound changes to something far more reminiscient of that old Strat
>copy I once had 
    
    If this is wired like a Gibson then putting the switch in the middle
    should engage both pickups. That should give you a fat sound with some
    high end definition with both pickups turned all the way up. Strats
    have a lot of different sounds, so I'm not sure what you're comparing
    it too, but this sound is not what I would describe as a "Strat sound",
    in fact quite the opposite. Which leads me to wonder if the pickups
    aren't wired out of phase.
    
> - and I find that in order to bring the volume *up*, I have to 
> turn the neck pickup *down*.  Is that some special feature?
    
    That also sounds backward from what I would expect. The volume controls
    for the pickups are passive resistors which tie the output signal to
    ground, and they are connected in parallel. This causes the controls to
    affect one another, so for example if you turn one pickup all the way
    up and the other one all the way down there will be no output. But I
    can't imagine why turning one pickup *down* would cause the volume to
    go *up*. It really seems like the wiring may be incorrect, but you'll
    need more of an electronics expert than me to help out on that.
    
    - Ram

     gee willickers...sounds to me like a phase cancellation problem...
    try (if you don't have active p.u.'s to reverse the leads for one
    of the pickups and see if it helps.....
    -Bill
    

Holy 2-K-pots Batman, I think someone soldered the bloody contraption
bass-akwards..

<<Any suggestions on how a long-time acoustic guitarist should approach
<<the change in equipment/style?

well for starters, I'll bet the fingers are looking up at you saying,, yeah so
like, when do you put some real strings on this thang????	

Thats a good qestion though...  I think the electric will help you to
fine tune dxterity.  Scales will work a bit easier,, of course,,, that
isn't the only benifit/change...

I think you'll just have to take it in it's course and develop your
own CHANGE over to the new feel...  The tendancy will be to dabble
into lead work more so with an electric...  Don't fight the urge..