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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

1581.0. "winter dryness bad for guitars?" by ESKIMO::AUSTIN () Sat Dec 09 1989 00:40

	I am wondering if the extremely dry air of winter is bad for
        a guitar?  I have a solid body electric(Kramer) and am concerned
        that the lack of humidity in the air will harm the guitar. 
    	I can see what the lack of moisture does to my wooden furniture
    	and don't want my guitar to start splitting or warping.   	
    	
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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1581.1The quick temperature changes can be more importantSALEM::ABATELLINouveau Blues RockerSat Dec 09 1989 08:3918
    I've been told that 40% - 50% humidity is perfect, but as we all
    know that's kinda impossible. It's been my experience that cold
    to warm changes do the most damage. Never leave your guitar sitting
    in your cold trunk overnight, or at work. Always take it inside
    quickly, so that the temperature changes don't get drastic. I had
    a friend who didn't believe me when I told him this. He left his
    brand new Fender Strat out in his truck all night long (~20 degrees)
    and when I saw it the next night at our gig, it was covered with
    small (spider) finish cracks. I rest my case! Personally, I haven't
    seen a problem with either my Gibson, or my Fenders as far as humidity
    although I'm sure that some guitars are more sensitive than others. 
    If you are worried, then get a small humidifier for your room and
    then get a dehumifier for the summer months. Better yet...
    put them both in the same room and let them fight it out!  ;^)
    
    
    Just a though,
    		  Fred
1581.2ASAHI::COOPERFleas Navidawg !Mon Dec 11 1989 09:065
    I wouldn't be as concerned about dry humidity as  I would about
    too much moisture...  I keep those little desicant packets in my
    guitar cases, and NEVER leave my axes outdoors...
    
    jc
1581.3MRVAX::ALECLAIREMon Dec 11 1989 10:097
    Yo, I can relate to that jc,
    all my guitars are OK in the dry,
    but my shaved neck bich tends to buzz on a couple of frets when the
    humidity goes up. going to slinky's from super slinky's fixed that,
    tho.
    
    
1581.4HAMSTR::PELKEYLoco Boy Makes Good.Mon Dec 11 1989 10:5615
    Like said be-fo,.,  It's the cold/wamring up quick that
    you have be leary of on finishes..
    
    I know Les-pauls are very suspect, I've never had a problem
    with my fenders or ibanez...
    
    Anyone who leaves an axe in a truck over night is begging
    for probelms in almost anytime of year...
    
    In the winter, the extreme deep freeze, in the summer, it's 
    the sweltering heat and humidty.
    
    I don't think the concern of the base note is something to
    worry about though....  As long as the guitar is inside, away
    from the elements, it should'nt be a problem.
1581.5Environmental damageCSC32::G_HOUSEEvery three metersWed Dec 13 1989 20:0632
    It's more crucial for acoustics.  I was reading in Guitar Player
    recently that it can be benefical to have a small humidifier device in
    your case when the air humidity is low.  

    These can be obtained for about $5-10 from most music stores.

    I've lived in some pretty dry climates (Las Vegas, Co. Springs, both
    typically under 10% humidity) and haven't had any problems with any of
    my guitars.  I find that some of them like to have a truss rod
    adjustment when the humidity stays up for awhile, but no real problems. 

    My bass player keeps one in the case with his J-bass, FWIW.  I don't
    know if it helps or not (or if you could even tell).
    
    re: the guy that left the new Strat in his trunk when it was cold
        out...

    Honestly, I really don't have much sympathy, that's just plain stupid. 
    Even if it wasn't for the environmental considerations, a car trunk
    just isn't SAFE!  Theft is a very real problem.  

    Besides, the one thing *I* desperately *want* to do whenever I get a
    new instrument is PLAY it.  I will typically sit up quite late playing
    a new guitar.  The last time I bought a new one, I spent so much time
    with it over the next week that I thought my wife was gonna club me
    with it...

    But in reality, what you described is just cold checking of the finish,
    not a problem with the guitars structural integrity.  I'd say he's
    lucky, it's not that expensive to have a Strat refinished.

    Greg
1581.6a cheap alternativeSMURF::LAMBERTThings fall apart; it's scientificThu Dec 14 1989 11:0615
re:           <<< Note 1581.5 by CSC32::G_HOUSE "Every three meters" >>>

    > ... a small humidifier device in
    > your case when the air humidity is low.  

    > These can be obtained for about $5-10 from most music stores.

    Or you can make one from an old sponge and some aluminum foil.  Dampen
    the sponge and squeeze out the excess water.  Wrap in foil.  Poke holes
    in the foil with a pin.  Place in case.  About once a week unwrap and
    re-dampen.  

    My acoustic is currently stored this way whilst I'm in "electric mode".

    -- Sam
1581.7When in doubt measure the humidity4TRACK::LAQUERREFri Dec 15 1989 11:3916
I was worried about the changes in humidify in our finished basement, which has
a woodstove.  I put a thermometer with a humidity indicator in the corner of 
the room where I keep my recording equipment and guitars. (There's actually a 
wall between the stove/family room and my recording area.)

While the temperature does vary from 65 to 75 depending on whether the 
woodstove is cranking, the humidity didn't change as drastically as I had 
thought it would.  It varies from a high of 70% if the stove isn't on for a 
while, to a low of 50% when during extra cold weather when we're really 
cranking the stove (like for the past 3 weeks!).

So, I suggest getting a thermometer and humidity indicator and find out 
whether you have a problem or not.

Peter
1581.8Rate-of-change is key?CIMAMT::KELLYFeelin&#039; a little edgyWed Jan 24 1990 13:2018
    I put a _DampIt_ in my '69 Martin D18.  It's a six inch long piece of 
    rubber tubing with a cylinder of sponge material completely filling the
    inside of the tube.  There are a number of holes in the tube and caps on
    the ends.  It was about $6 but that was 1972.  It just sits inside the
    
    I added a little water to get it started.
    guitar (probably has stuck to all those picks I dropped down there!).
    
    When I took the guitar to Martin in Nazareth, Pa, for some fret work
    in 1984, the repair technician heard the _DampIt_ rattling, said, 
    "What's that?"  I told him, and he said, "Good."  He also said the 
    function is to slow the changes in humidity the guitar is subjected
    to, not to control the overall humidity 'around' the guitar.
    Regards,
    John Kelly
    
    
    
1581.9Maintaining appropriate humidity for your guitarBLADE::ANDREI think, therefore I am, I thinkTue Mar 21 1995 07:57172
   Here's a letter to Acoustic Magazine, written by Earle White of the
ClimateCase Company,  regarding  maintaining  proper humidity for your
guitars that I pulled off the internet.

   I think it's a little extreme, but he has some good tips here:

----------

Article 40216 of alt.guitar:
From: [email protected] (Earle White)
Newsgroups: alt.guitar
Subject: Thermal/Humidity Protection
Date: 7 Mar 1995 06:02:13 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 164
Distribution: world

   Since I've noticed numerous postings in this newsgroup concerning  thermal
and humidity protection for stringed instruments, I'm taking  the liberty of
posting the following letter I wrote on the subject  to Acoustic Guitar
magazine. The letter should appear in the  May/June '95 issue.

   There seems to be lots of misunderstandings concerning thermal and  humidity
control and protection. Hopefully, this letter will clear up  the cloud factor,
just a little.

   If you have any questions or comments, my contact info appears at the  end of
this letter... Best Regards

=======================================================================

Editor,
Acoustic Guitar Magazine
PO Box 767, 
San Anselmo, CA 94979-0767

Re: Letter for publication in next issue ...

Dear Sir:

   I want to commend Acoustic Guitar and Bob Taylor for the technically 
excellent article on how humidity affects guitars (September/October  1994).
Beyond the usual brief comments, such as "don't put it in your  car" or
"humidify your instrument in the winter", it is very rare  indeed to find any
definitive media coverage on the perils that  routinely affect guitars and other
stringed instruments in the real  world.  

   In fact, the leading cause of instrument damage and expensive repairs is 
exposure to excessive temperature and humidity conditions. Just ask any  repair
person about cracked and shattered finishes, top crack repairs,  bridge reglues,
neck resets, and various other re-gluing, straightening,  and restoration jobs.
He'll probably tell you that, aside from routine  maintenance items like refret
jobs, as much as 90% of the repair  business comes from thermal and humidity
abuse. Even the best hardshell  case is inadequate protection when an instrument
is exposed to rapid  changes and extremes of temperature and humidity. 

   Aside from use of synthetic materials, hard shell cases really haven't 
changed much since the 1800's. Currently available hard shell cases  themselves,
do not provide adequate thermal or humidity protection to  accommodate routine
weather changes, much less the exposure that occurs  when the instrument is
taken outside, or left in a closed automobile or  aircraft cargo hold. 

   The reality is that stringed instruments made of various woods,  plastics,
metals and other dissimilar materials are susceptible to  damage from heat or
cold, and from excessive dryness or humidity, as  evidenced by the
thermal/humidity damage present on the vast majority of  used and vintage
instruments. No matter how much effort the luthier puts  into obtaining
stabilized tonewoods, de-stressing instrument structures,  or developing
elasticized finishes, a guitar will eventually show damage  due to
thermal/humidity exposure unless it is kept in a stable  environment. In
addition, world class high performance guitars are more  susceptible to damage
than lesser instruments, due to lighter overall  construction, thinner tops,
smaller braces, and closer tolerances. 

   Indeed, the finest close-tolerance high performance acoustic guitars of  all
time are being made right now, by a host of highly-knowledgeable and  talented
builders using modern tools, close tolerance CNC machining, and  superior
quality standards. So, will these instruments survive in better  shape than
their vintage counterparts?  Is 1880's case technology going  to do the job in
today's world?

PLAYER AWARENESS IS THE KEY. The answer is:

    1.) Stabilize the guitar by buffering thermal and humidity changes;

    2.) Use a lab quality (+/- 5% accuracy min.) thermometer/hygrometer in your
        instrument case to accurately measure the instrument's environment; 

    3.) Humidify or dehumidify (as appropriate)using water-retentive clay-based
        humidifiers or tyvec-packaged desiccant packs (respectively) in your instrument
        case when warranted. 

   So, what about some guidelines? Our lab and real world research  suggests: 
If ambient humidity is 40% or less - humidify your guitar; if  humidity is 70%
or greater - dehumidify. For safety's sake, strenuously  avoid rapid temperature
changes (more than 20F per hour), and exposure  to temperatures less than 45F or
more than 105F. Naturally, individual  instruments respond differently to
thermal and humidity stress, some  being more sensitive (i.e. more easily
damaged) than others. In turn,  the above limits are meant as a guide only -
it's better to be safe than  sorry. Also, it is a good idea to let your
instrument adapt slowly to  significantly different conditions while inside its
case - before  removing it!  

   If you have old guitars, bear in mind that they may be more susceptible  to
damage due to the old type glues and finishes, and may also have  compromised
glue joints due to repeated exposure and aging, hence, more  care is indicated.
Luckily, most of these older-type glues and finishes  were discontinued years
ago in favor of stronger, more durable,  temperature/humidity-tolerant glues and
finishes.

   By the way, I recommend water-retentive clay humidifiers since they  maintain
a more constant humidity level than foam, and do not dry out as  readily.
Tyvec-packaging of desiccant (aka: silica gel) more effectively  prevents the
powdered material from escaping into your case and onto  your guitar�s finish.
Desiccant is a silicon-based product roughly  similar to glass; therefore, it's
definitely something you don't want to  breathe or polish into your guitar's
lacquer finish.

   Buffering your instrument from thermal/humidity changes can be a  difficult
problem. Wrapping blankets or other insulation around the  instrument has been
done for years, and really does no good since it  isn't airtight. Sleeping bags
have been used, and do provide some degree  of marginal protection --
approximately 2-3 times that of the case  itself, depending on the bag rating
(polar-rated is better). This  approach is certainly better than nothing, but is
inconvenient and can  be dangerously ineffective. After about 12 years of
experimentation, I  designed a simple, effective, and inexpensive solution to
the problem,  namely the ClimateCase case cover. 

   The ClimateCase cover is designed to stabilize wooden instruments, by 
providing a ported, nearly air/water-tight, and insulated buffer between  the
instrument and the external environment. It reflects about 90% of  heat and
sunlight in hot conditions, compared to black hardshell cases  that absorb 90%
of heat/sunlight. Due to a thermos-bottle type effect,  it also retains about
90% of warmth in cold conditions. Overall, it  provides over 10 times more
thermal protection than a black hardshell  case and, because it's nearly
air/water-tight, it stabilizes the  humidity level inside the instrument case.
Of course, it also protects  the instrument case from wear and tear, dust, and
rain.

   We have done considerable engineering research into the causes and  effects
of thermal and humidity exposure on musical instruments over the  past 16 years,
and would be happy to answer any questions your readers  may have on these
subjects.

    Thanks and Best Regards,

        Earle White (ClimateCase Co.)
        POB 506, Grass Valley, CA 95945
        (916) 272-3603

Internet Address:  [email protected]

===================================================================

NOTES: The best known clay-based humidifier is the "Guardfather", which  when
used with a ClimateCase will retain 50% +/-5% in fairly extreme  conditions
(down to ~20% ambient RH). Guardfather humidifiers only cost  about $2.00 from
Elderly Instruments in Lansing, MI (517) 372-7890. FAX  is (517) 372-5155. They
also have about the lowest prices on the  ClimateCase thermal/humidity
protective covers also. Tyvec or MIL-std  packaged desiccant can be obtained
from ADCOA (manufacturer), or one of  its dealers. ADCOA's phone number is
1-800-228-4124.

IMPORTANT!!! MAKE SURE that you use a LAB-QUALITY humidity guage,  preferably
solid state. Note that most small humidity guages have  accuracies of +/-20%,
which is dangerously imprecise. Other types may  be designed for weather
forecasting use, and may be mechanically  undesirable since an instrument case
can see fairly rough action  (shocks) every now and then. This type will not
maintain accuracy if  it is knocked around. Additionally, most humidity guages
supplied with  currently available humidifiers are accurate to +/20 to 30% only
(and  don't ask me why they supply such junk!) I guess, the cliche "ya gets 
what ya pays fowr" applies here too.