Conference napalm::guitar

    RE: -1 
    
    Seriously??
    
    Well, sounds dumb, but when you are in a room, stand where the speakers
    would be and clap...this will test the rooms reverberation
    characteristics.  Try it once, then several spaced out, then a lot of
    them...gives you an aural idea how the sound waves will be traveling
    about in the room. 
    
    As far as the eqaulization issue...I NEVER (by default) use a curve
    like the one listed.  The low freq's will travel farther, and have more
    power to them, so in essence I wouldn't boost those.  The high freq's
    don't have as much power, and are smaller waves...i may boost these,
    but the definition to the sound will come from the mid freq's, and
    these I would not cut out per se.  Put in a favorite tape of yours...eq
    the sound as you would in your home....ie, how your ear wants to hear
    the sound.  If you have high-end feedback, more than likely its coming
    frmo the upper midrange bands (4K, 6.3K, 8K)... ie, the harmonic
    frequency bandwidths.
    
    Hope this gives you some insight.
    
    Buck 

    
    Buck,
    
      Yea,He sets his bass guitar equalizer the same way. He thinks that
    the equalization is somehow connected to the fact that he hasnt got the
    strenght in his voice and ends up hoarse by the second set. I say its
    because he doesnt sing enough,and,his bass overrides his monitor audio.
    
       I usually end up with no effects(dry),and,the highs up,with mids
    flat,and bass flat or a little under,for a large hall. In a small place
    I add reverb and chorus to vocals.
    
    Mike
    

    In an overtly ambient room with a lot of standing waves, I would kill
    anything below 250hz.  Definitely 250hz, maybe a tad of 100hz to fill
    it out, but everything else I'd nuke.  All I can say is the secrets to
    sound in general lie between 400hz and 8khz....explore those mid
    frequencies! 

   re. 3

  Standing waves do not occurr in every listening position in a room.  If you
kill all frequencies below 250Hz you will not have any low end at all in the
listening positions in which standing waves are not happening.  Walk the room
and listen and make a compromise.  Never take anything for granted every room
is different.  Also killing below 250Hz will make for a very shrill sounding
mix, there will be very little if any low end, even with a little 100hz. 

								Tom Boilard

    You can get a pink noise analyzer from the Shack for $150 to help you
    eliminate some of the guesswork.
    
    Mike

    
    Mike,
    
     Is that Radio Shack? What is the concept around pink noise? I've heard
     of it,but,have not read on it.
    
    Mike
    

    I believe (I'm no sound man) that pink noise is a static-ish sound
    generated and used as a bench mark for EQ-ing your system.  The
    object of frequency analysis is to get a flat EQ curve on the analyzer.
    
    Am I close ?
    
    jc (Who thinks the lights on those babies are a MUST for your rack!)

    Kinda like the same principle as the raster on your video monitor...
    So yu can align your video saddles/drivers for a "better picture"
    
    ?

    A pink noise generator alone is useless. You also need a spectrum
    analyzer, and a calibrated mic to make use of the generator.
    The idea is that white noise increases in volume by 6db/octave.
    In other words if you applied a low frequency (50hz) signal into
    an amp, and cranked it out at say 100watts, then swept the freq
    up you would find for each octave you climb the sound will be
    6db louder (assuming a constant 100watts). Pink noise on the other 
    hand, has a consistant volume level at all frequencies. 
    
    Pink noise sounds like you're caught in a hurricane, not very pleasing
    to the ear, and must be cranked fairly loud to be useful in eq'ing
    a room. The calibrated mic is set up at a certain distance from
    the speakers, and the pink noise is fed through the system. The
    mic is plugged into the spectrum analyzer. You then adjust your
    eq so that each frequency band is amplified equally. This is quite a 
    tedious process, and a good system will set you back quite a few bucks 
    (Radio shack components do not fit into this category). For instance, 
    a Rane RE27 eq (which is a mono 31 band eq with built-in pink noise, 
    spectrum analyzer, and mic) will set you back about $800.
    Several companies (Peavey, ART to name a few) now offer programmable
    equalizers. These allow you to eq a room once, and store the settings
    in memory. Each time you play that room, you simply recall the settings
    and away you go.
    
    The top of the line spectrum analyzers are made by Goldline. They
    make a unit with a built-in printer which will set you back about
    $3500. The idea is to eq a room, and then printout the settings
    on paper for later reference. 
    
    If all rooms were alike, you wouldn't even need an eq, nevermind
    the analyzers, etc. Another thing to remember is that the room
    acoustics change drastically once the people crowd in. This usually
    will necessitate additional adjustments after the initial soundcheck.
    
    Sound reinforcment is an art all by itself. This is why professional
    bands have sounds crews, because no musician wants to worry about
    all this technical stuff while playing music.
    
    Mark               
    

  Pink Noise contains the same energy per octave across the audible spectrum.
  
  White Noise contains the same energy per frequency across the audible 
  spectrum.

 						Tom Boilard
  
    
  

My technique for EQ'ing for different rooms is to set the equalizer to the
"standard" setting for the *band*.  Its written down at rehearsal.  Then
at a new venue, I start out with the standard EQ and tweak it during
the sound-check to get the room to sound like the band should.  If there's no
time for a sound-check, I *gently* tweak during the first coupla pieces.

The clap test generally gives me an idea of the direction I'll have to move in
in changing the EQ, but I never try to pre-judge a room.  Besides, they change
as the population changes...

BobW

    
    	I use the Rane RE27 27 band EQ/Analyzer. It's useful for
    	setting up crossover levels (not points) as well as EQing
    	the room. There is one for sale in the WantADvertizer for
    	$250. They retail for ~650. The Goldline 1/3 octave LM27P
    	Analyzer is very good, but you have to get a 1/3 octave EQ
    	to go with it. It also has a line input to complement the mic
    	input which comes in handy when EQing monitors through the
    	stage mics. This feature is absent from the Rane RE27, but is
    	on the RA27 Analyzer only. I had a Goldline ASA10 10 band
    	analyzer and found that I removed more program than I wanted
    	to when using it with a 10 band EQ. The 10 band analyzers and
    	EQs just don't have enough resolution IMO.
    
    	Neal
    	

    The Radio Shack pink noise generator that I referred to is actually a
    spectrum analyzer with the generator built in.  It goes for $150 but
    I've never tried it.
    
    The ART programmable EQs that Mark Jacques referred to are also MIDI.
    
    Mike

    
    I looked in the Radio Shack cat. and couldnt find the analyzer. Is this
    something local. Where is it in the catalogue? 
    
    I can see why you would want an experienced sound man. Thing is,I cant
    afford one. I have to do all the setting up. 
    
    We had an audition last night,and,I let our bass player set up the PA.
    Well,he had the mids on both mains and monitor -12,low end from +12,
    the highs were from +0 to  +12. As I suspected,we had all kinds of
    problems with feedback. I mean, 16k at +12db! No way! 
    
    Mike
    

>                  <<< Note 1482.14 by DNEAST::PUSHARD_MIKE >>>
>    I looked in the Radio Shack cat. and couldnt find the analyzer. Is this
>    something local. Where is it in the catalogue? 
    
    Mike, I've seen it in one their local stores.  I don't have a catalog.
    
    Mike

    
    
    Hmmmm
    	Really for a live situation you can only use a spectrum analyser
    as a guide for room eq. All this goes down the toilet once 1000 punters
    stand in front of the band. 
    
    	I find the best method is to start off flat
    using the main vocal mic, tune that taking out feedback peaks and
    generally getting a nice clear sound. Then you can build the bottom
    end etc etc. Play a tape that you know the sound of very well and check
    all is well. If you are in a big brick hall with a shiney floor you
    really cant do much about it with eq , speaker choice and placement
    becomes probably more important. 
    
    	It's really all a matter of experience and taste, some engineers
    tweak eq everywhere , some dont touch it.
    
    BC

    Now I know why Segovia never used a P.A. !!
    :-) gag, snorkle, man this stuff gets Complicated :-&

    
    	Another good idea is if you are playing at a lot of different
    venues, is to get a couple of midi programable eq's. Then you can save
    the setups and only have to tune once per venue. But $$$$$$$$
    
    B.C.

    I'm not so sure that Segovia never used a P.A.  I'm not saying I
    know for sure, but I think it is very likely that he did mic. his
    guitar.  I saw Julian Bream at Jordan Hall in Boston and there was
    some kind of microphone hanging *way* up in the air above, and in
    front of, the stage...
    
    just a guess,
    joe.

    re -1
    
    Thos mics are for recording purposes!

    Oh silly me.  Second screw up in this file in a week!!  I better
    start being more careful.
    
    	joe.

		Didn't Segovia get one of the early Nady setups?














	Just kiddin'...

    
    It of course,makes a difference whether the audience is quiet. Acoustic
    instruments carry well,but,not if you got a hundred people all talking
    at the same time,sort of like when my Mom and her sisters get together
    :^) .
    
    
    Mike
    

    I saw Segovia a bunch of time, all at Symphony hall in Boston.
    Sometimes I sat a few rows back, that was pretty much OK, but
    once way in the back, If you breathed too hard you got shuushed.
    I played a hall like that once, you hit the strings and say to yerself
    "Where did it go?"
    
    That dude should've given a second thought to a Les Paul, I think!

    
    
    re- all the notes on Segovia
    
    BLASPHEMERS!!!!!   Segovia and a Les Paul indeed!!!!   
    
    ;^)
    Ralph