| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1407.1 | Learning the Neck... | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | If all else fails, take a nap... | Tue Aug 01 1989 09:54 | 17 |
|
Kham, for me, there wasn't an easy way to learn to transcribe and
play the songs that I like... I don't feel now that I'm as good at it
as I'd like to be.. but I've heard the same thing from guitarists whom
I consider, gods <grin>... What it took for me was to find a good
instructor to help me... and to spend a lot of time learning the neck
of my guitar and musical intervals... one exercise that was very
helpful (I don't have perfect pitch) was to learn to "fill in"
intervals to any given note, in my head or by humming them... I'm
getting to the point where many times I know which note to play,
because I know how the intervals sound... I work on transcribing as
much as I can at home, and once a week let my instructor help me...
Good luck,
Steve
|
| 1407.2 | Listen, and remember | MARKER::BUCKLEY | Wicked rad guitar sound | Tue Aug 01 1989 10:31 | 39 |
| Kham,
There are two concepts involved in transcribing songs (in my opinion).
First, you have to "hear" notes and chords in your head. To learn
this, start to "sing" all the notes you play. When you play a chord or
group of chords, "listen" to how they sound together. Example: If you
play an Eminor chord, then a Gmajor chord, really listen to how those
sounds go together. The reason being for this is there are very COMMON
chord changes in rock music....if you can hear the similarities in the
changes, you can transcribe the music easier. So remember these first
steps.....play, analyze, listen.
Example: E minor - G major :== minor third interval. It will "sound"
the same as:
F# minor - A major
B minor - D major
A minor - C major All of these are common rock chord
sequences.
Second part of transcribing is knowing some chord theory. It really
helps if you:
a) Know how to spell your chords (major, minor, dimin.)
b) know your key signatures
c) know the diatonic chord structure.
Reason being is it will allow you to quikly know what key a song is in.
Also, if you know some chords, say like Eminor, Dmajor, and Cmajor,
you'd know right away that you were in the key of Gmajor. If you ran
across a chord with a "B" note in it, but you didn't know the chord
offhand, with the theory knowledge, you could figure out wether the
chord was a Gmajor chord, a Bminor chord, or an Eminor chord...as they
are in in the key of G, and all have a "B" note in them.
Hope that last part wasn't too difficult to understand. Again, the
best way to develop an "ear" is to listen to how the chords go
together.
|
| 1407.3 | General Starting Pointers | CSC32::MOLLER | Nightmare on Sesame Street | Tue Aug 01 1989 13:33 | 69 |
| I usually start by figuring out the bass line, and then work
towards the right chords for a song. Depending on the style
and complexity of the music, the bass line may not be easy to
find (take for instance music with a lot of orchestration,
or jazz/obscure progressions), however for many rock & roll/
country/pop/heavy metal/rap/popular music, this isn't too hard to
find.
Since I suspect that you will be working off of a 6 string guitar,
use the bass E and A strings to find the note that seems to match
the the flow of the chords. A lot of songs have 6 chords or less
in them, so you should concentrate on the notes that match up
with the music. I work in small sections (verses, breaks, intros,
choruses, etc.), and I either put the song onto a cassette (so I
can stop & rewind as much as necessary), or work off a CD where
I can start & stop as needed.
Once you have the bass line, you need to associate the notes
with the chords being used. I like to work from a 'coarse' set
of notes and 'refine' them down to excatly what is being played.
To get the 'coarse' chord progression, play either a major or
minor chord for each bass line note that you have found. For
example, if you have the pattern:
E G A
Try an E or Em, then G or Gm and lastly A or Am when the chord
is played. You should be close to what they are playing. It's
likely that you can simplify almost everything down to major
or minor chords, however, you should listen for the added notes
that are being placed on the chords. Finding 6th's and 7th's
that are added in places are fairly easy to do, and you'll get
an ear for that after a while.
Sometimes, you may have to try other variations of a chord, or
stop and listen hard to find all of the notes that are being
played (you could get a chord book & try variations), you might
have accidently picked up a C as the note, when the chord is
actually an Am.
When it comes to picking outs solo's, you'll find it much easier
to understand the relations now that you have the correct (or
close to correct) chord progression. If you want an exact copy
of what is being played, use the cassette tape / CD start/stop
trick to find the right notes, and work on them slowly until
you can place things at thier proper intervals, and flow along
with the progression.
After a while, this will come faster, but it can be frustrating
if you have no idea where to start.
Make sure that you know what the names of all of the notes on the
bass E and A strings, as you will use these to cue you into the
right chords to use. Also spend the time to learn how to play
regular Barre and Double Barre chords, as they will be needed
and used heavily if you are serious about playing fast.
I don't know what your skill set is, I'm assuming that it's not
deeply developed (I apologize if I'm wrong). I would work on
some scales, and watch other guitar players hands as they
play the sytle of music that you are interested in. Learn how
to read tablature & spend the time it takes to become familiar
with your guitar. Keep in mind that you are trying to make it
communicate, in much that same way that you do with speach.
Eventually, your hands will be able to express what you feel,
or think, beyond the patterns or various 'learned' solo's
that you know. It takes time.
Jens
|
| 1407.4 | Try this out for size... | SIGVAX::KARRFALT | Steve Dallas is BACK!...and he's bad | Tue Aug 01 1989 16:10 | 42 |
|
This is the basic blues scale that every rock guitarist uses,
especially the ones you mentioned that you like. I believe that it's
called a pentatonic major (help me out here folks). Practice playing
this, reading the tablature from left to right, then try going down
(reading from right to left). Play the notes not in the parenthesis
first, then as you get better at it, add the ones in parenthesis.
Guaranteed, if you learn this up and down, you'll soon be able to
play every Motley Crue, Poison, and Great White solo ever recorded.
This is called tablature. The horizontal lines represent the
strings and the numbers represent which frets to play on that string.
E(1)-----------------------------------5-8-(10)---------------------------------
A(2)--------------------------5-8-(10)------------------------------------------
D(3)---------------(4)-5-7-(9)--------------------------------------------------
G(4)-----------5-7--------------------------------------------------------------
B(5)-------5-7------------------------------------------------------------------
E(6)---5-8----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is what it looks like on the neck of the guitar:
S E(1)-> ||----|----|----|----|--*-|----|----|--*-|----|-(*)|----|----
t B(2)-> ||----|----|----|----|--*-|----|----|--*-|----|-(*)|----|----
r G(3)-> ||----|----|----|-(*)|--*-|----|--*-|----|-(*)|----|----|----
i D(4)-> ||----|----|----|----|--*-|----|--*-|----|----|----|----|----
n A(5)-> ||----|----|----|----|--*-|----|--*-|----|----|----|----|----
g E(6)-> ||----|----|----|----|--*-|----|----|--*-|----|----|----|----
s ^ 1 ^ 2 ^ 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
| | | ^ ^
| |____| |____|
Nut | |
Frets Fret numbers
Hope this helps, it did for me (in fact, it's all I know!).
Brad
|
| 1407.5 | The whole picture | MARKER::BUCKLEY | Smooth up in ya | Tue Aug 01 1989 16:48 | 20 |
| Said pentatonic scale, in all 5 positions on the neck:
--- pos 1 ----- ---- pos 3 ---- --- pos 5 -----
E(1)-> ||---|---|-*-|---|(*)|---|---|-*-|---|-*-|-*-|-*-|---|---|-*-|
B(2)-> ||---|---|-*-|-*-|-*-|---|---|-*-|---|(*)|---|---|-*-|---|-*-|
G(3)-> ||---|(*)|---|---|-*-|---|-*-|-*-|-*-|---|---|-*-|---|(*)|---|
D(4)-> ||---|-*-|---|---|-*-|---|(*)|---|---|-*-|---|-*-|-*-|-*-|-*-|
A(5)-> ||---|---|-*-|---|-*-|-*-|-*-|---|---|-*-|---|(*)|---|---|-*-|
E(6)-> ||---|---|-*-|---|(*)|---|---|-*-|---|-*-|-*-|-*-|---|---|-*-|
--- pos 2 ----- ------- pos 4 -----
(*) = Root note for MINOR pentatonic scale.
I have included all the b5 (blues notes) on this scale for the rock
sound and feel.
Seeing it like this also helps for the EVH-style horizontal fingertaps!
Thanks to .4 for the format!
Buck
|
| 1407.6 | | VLNVAX::ALECLAIRE | | Tue Aug 01 1989 18:15 | 4 |
| I played by ear for 6 or so years. What I did is I played a record I
wanted to learn, just a few seconds. Then thru trial and error figure
it out on the neck. I was able to figure out mostly anything but some
classical stuff, so that's what I learned then.
|
| 1407.7 | THANKS | ROULET::KLO | | Wed Aug 02 1989 03:25 | 3 |
| THANKS ALOT STEVE
KHAM
|
| 1407.8 | THANKS | ROULET::KLO | | Wed Aug 02 1989 03:43 | 6 |
| THANKS ALOT FOR ALL OF YOUR GUYS HELPS FROM 1407.1TO.5
KHAM
|
| 1407.9 | | ROULET::KLO | | Wed Aug 02 1989 03:48 | 5 |
| THANKS ALOT ALE.
I'M NOT FOR GET ABOUT YOU.
YOU ARE THE .6
KHAM
|
| 1407.10 | experience | LARVAE::BRIGGS | They use computers don't they? | Thu Aug 03 1989 09:27 | 29 |
| In my view the real answer is experience.
I find I can easily recognise songs that are the usual CFG, CAmFG
etc etc songs with no problem. Much beyond this and I start sweating.
Now there was a time when I couldn't even recogise a CFG song when
I heard it. So how did I overcome this little hurdle?
Don't ask me. It just happened. It can only be through experience
of listening and playing. I have a friend who is much better than
me and he can hear any song once and play it 100% complete with
all 7ths, diminished, augmented etc chords. He also does not know
how he achieved this level of skill other than by experience. In
fact this guy doesn't know what chords he's playing half the time.
If I ask him to tell me what he just played, he has to stop and
replay in slow motion, examine the notes he's playing and he then
can give me a name.
My problem was that when learning I was quite well off financially
and so I just bought the sheet music for anything I wanted to play
so I never went through the pain of working out chords by ear. A
big mistake in hindsight.
Also, there are no 'right' chords for a song (within reason). I
used to get worried that chords I had worked out were maybe different
to the sheet music when I saw it. Don't let that worry you. If it
sounds OK then it is OK.
Richard
Basingstoke, UK
|
| 1407.11 | Start with the BASSics... | CCYLON::ANDERSON | If winning isn't important... Why keep score? | Thu Aug 03 1989 17:55 | 12 |
|
Start with the bass line and work up from there. Figure out what
key the song is in... This will limit your chording options somewhat
and make it easier to locate the base chords and refine from there.
Unfortunately sheet music is often incorrect as compared with the
recording as most sheet music was arranged for a single piano and
finding complete and acurate scores is difficult at best for Rock
'n Roll.
Jim
|
| 1407.12 | | MARKER::BUCKLEY | just turn back a page... | Thu Aug 03 1989 18:13 | 2 |
| The baseline is a crutch though and doesn't always work. Most of the
bands he listens too (like the Crue) use pedal tone bass lines.
|
| 1407.13 | Nothing is perfect | CSC32::MOLLER | Nightmare on Sesame Street | Thu Aug 03 1989 19:20 | 18 |
| Yea, the unfortunate thing is that you have to develop your
own technique over time. The base line is a fairly good
start point for things that are not exceptionally complex,
or have sounds that are difficult to track. I've found that
I often recognize changes & can follow them without thinking
about it. Other times I can't seem to find the right chord
no matter what technique that you use. It took me a while to
discover this technique (back in about 1964) when I was learning
how to play guitar & It seems to be valid on probably 80% of
anything that I try to figure out. It's odd how sometimes things
just come to you & other times you get stuck. Time & practice
seems to be what you need (By the way, I don't listen much to the
music refered to in the base note, however, I'd guess that I'd
be able to pick out quite a bit just figuring out a simplfied
bass pattern of a song & working from there. However, sometimes
things are not as simple as they appear to be).
Jens
|
| 1407.14 | | ROULET::KLO | | Fri Aug 04 1989 02:07 | 5 |
| THANKS ALOT EVERYONE FOR GIVEN ME ALL IDEAS.
I'LL TRY TO PRATICES HARD.
THANKS AGAIN
KHAM
|
| 1407.15 | Bite is Bigger than Bark? | VIDEO::TASSINARI | Bob | Fri Aug 04 1989 09:10 | 13 |
|
A previous note mentioned to '...use the baseline as the chord options
were limited...' Good point. Buck mentioned the type of material in-
volved might make it difficult to use this technique. Also a good
point.
Is it possible that Kham is trying to go 'too far, too fast'? In
other words, rudiments are necessary first?
No reflection on Kham but he might be biting more than he can chew.
- Bob
|
| 1407.16 | Start slowley... | CCYLON::ANDERSON | If winning isn't important... Why keep score? | Fri Aug 04 1989 16:10 | 11 |
| A bass line in it's simplest form is a starting point from which
you can build. I am in no means suggesting that he should attempt
to play along with the bass guitarist. Remember he is trying to
develop a technique from ground 0. No method works for all cases
he will have to develop several approaches. Sometimes the more complex
the music the simpler the starting appreoach should be. I am amazed
at how many people that I know only know pieces of songs and very
few in their entirety. is is like knowing half a joke.
Jim
|
| 1407.17 | REPLY | CSC32::H_SO | | Fri Aug 18 1989 01:38 | 16 |
|
HI, MY NAME IS J. AND I HAVE BEEN PLAYING "ROCK GUITAR" FOR ABOUT
7 YEARS NOW... ONE THING THAT'S HELPED ME ALOT IS THAT THE FACT OF
KNOWING THAT MOST HEAVY METAL PLAYERS ARE NOTORIOUS FOR USING
POWER CHORDS AS MOST OF YOU ALREADY KNOW, EXCEPT FOR FEW EXCEPTIONS,
LIKE GEORGE LYNCH OF DOKKEN WHOM USES SOME POWER CHORDS BUT! COMES
UP WITH SOME OFF THE WALL CHORD VOICINGS!!! I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIND
SOME OF THESE ON MY OWN, BUT IF IT WASN'T FOR TRANSCRIPTIONS IN
GUITAR FOR PRACTICING MUSICIAN, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE NEVER FOUND
THEM... NOW, I SOMETIMES FIND MYSELF USING SOME OF THESE ON MY OWN
COMPOSITION(IF YOU COULD CALL IT THAT!) AND FIND THAT IT ADDS ALOT
OF LIFE INTO THE PROGRESSION!!! AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, I'M NOT TALKIN
ABOUT JUST 7TH OR MINOR CHORDS, I'M TALKING ABOUT LIKE HARMONIC 3RDS
OR THINGS LIKE THAT...
J
|
| 1407.18 | AEOLIAN | CSC32::H_SO | | Fri Aug 18 1989 02:08 | 28 |
|
BRAD, BUCK, KHAM...
I GOT CUT OFF FROM TYPING MY LAST REPLY.... I LOOKED AT THE TABS
THAT BRAD AND BUCK SENT AND I GOTTA ADMIT THAT I WISH THAT I HAD
GOTTEN INVOLVED IN THIS NOTES FILE ALOT EARLIER!!!! ONE THING THAT
I HAVE DISCOVERED ABOUT ROCK GUITAR PLAYING IS THAT FOR MOST OF THE
SOLOING ON FOR INSTANCE JOE SATRIANI'S ALWAYS WITH ME, ALWAYS WITH
YOU (INCIDENTLY, JOE SATRIANI IS GUITAR GOD IN MY EYES!!!!), GUITARISTS
ARE USING MORE AND MORE OF MAJOR SCALE THAN ANYTHING ELSE....
FOR INSTANCE, IF YOUR PLAYING AN A PROGRESSION, YOU CAN USE C MAJOR
SCALE(ALSO KNOWN AS A AEOLIAN SCALE) AS WELL AS THE FLATTED 5TH FROM
THE A BLUES SCALE (WHICH BRAD AND BUCK HAVE MAPPED OUT, AND FLATTED
5TH WOULD BE THE 6TH FRET OF A STRING, 8TH FRET OF G STRING). THIS
GIVES THE SOLO ALOT OF LIFE!!! PRACTICALLY SPEAKING, YOU CAN USE
----ANY---- NOTES ON THE NECK AS LONG AS YOU USE THEM AS "PASSING
NOTES" AND CAREFULLY CHOOSE "RESTING NOTES" AND THE "BENDING NOTES".
I USUALLY HAVE A LOT OF FUN JUST JAMMING WITH THIS METHOD AND I FOUND
THAT WITH JUST A LITTLE PRACTICE, AND ALOT OF CAREFREENESS, I CAN
COME UP WITH A SOLO OF MY OWN THAT IS WORTHY OF OTHER PEOPLE'S
APPRAISAL.... I'M SURE THAT FOR MOST OF YOU, ALL THIS IS JUST
OLD NEWS....
WELL, TAKE CARE AND HAVE FUN - I DO....
"J"
|
| 1407.19 | re.18 | CHEFS::DALLISON | Addicted to that rush | Fri Aug 18 1989 09:35 | 7 |
|
Hi!
Some interesting points there.
Could you possible write in lower case. Its killing my eyes and
in notes its considered shouting.
|
| 1407.20 | Paul Gilbert | CSC32::H_SO | | Thu Aug 24 1989 02:40 | 24 |
|
Sorry about that....
That heading of yours, "Addicted to that rush", is it a reference to
Mr. Big's song???? I find Paul Gilbert to be a very tasteful now
as well as speed demon he used to be when he was with Racer X....
It's really nice to see so many guitarists going for slow burning
type progressions as well as soulful solos... It seems like there's
a flud in music business and it's name is blues... More so than
ever!!
I can't really say that I like everything that blues has offer, I
believe that a guitarist needs to be aware of other aspects than
just being soulful. On the same token, I find Yngwie Malmsteen takes
too extreme an opposite approach... I really love some of the things
that Rick Emmit does, for instance "Little Boy Blues". So far I
found that it stars at blues scale in B (d major) but he puts alot
of fire into it by using somewhat fast scale runs that are technical
in appropriate places... Personally, I would like to see more things
like that than 2 million mile an hour arpeggio attack...
J.
|
| 1407.21 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Addicted to that rush | Mon Aug 28 1989 16:41 | 22 |
|
Yup, Its from the Mr Big album.
Yeah, I used to like the Racer X stuff, but I prefer Mr Big. They
are two totally different bands with completely different styles
but its good to see that Gilbert is capable of slowing down and
playing with some taste rather than the "paid by the note" type
stuff.
RE:Malmsteen
He's okay, and fast! but he ain't the fastest. I think Chris
Impelleterri (sp?) can play faster than old Yngwie, but the guy
hasn't the stamina to keep it up as long as Yngwie. The speed
players are getting so boring now days anyway. When I listen to
Malmsteen now I try to pick out other parts of his technique such
as his wild vibrato, but its usually hidden coz when you listen
to him you think "Geez thats fast".
Still, gimme a blast of Randy Rhoads anyday ! 8^)
-Tony
|
| 1407.22 | What does he do in concert? | MARKER::BUCKLEY | What happened to that electric girl? | Mon Aug 28 1989 17:04 | 10 |
|
RE: -1
Actually, Chris Impellitteri is a studio guit player...he can play
fast, but not for very long, and most of his solos are spliced!!
I have a friend who was Chris' roomate in LA...he said he's fast,
but has no dexterity, and gets sloppy real fast.
Just an inside FYI
|
| 1407.23 | Speed vs Feel | CSC32::H_SO | | Thu Aug 31 1989 08:43 | 27 |
|
RE: Chris Impellitteri
I must admit that I have not heard anything done by him and that
I usually find myself shying away from listening to people I perceive
as "speed demons". I guess I'm into people like Joe Satriani or
Queensryche duo or George Lynch whom to me seems to possess both
technical as well as the emotional aspects of guitar playing.
At the same time, people like B.B. King or David Gilmore are not fast
but to me they seem to say so much more with very few notes than
some people can with 2000. Right now, my instructor is teaching me
the technical aspects and on my own, I am learning some blues soloing
techniques. It seems to be working out pretty good. If there's
any input anybody might have out there that can open my eyes--whether
tech wise or feeling wise, it would be greatly appreciated...
I know that this is an extremely general topic, but I would like
to see what responses I can get...
J.
P.S. Paul Gilbert, "How Can You Do What You Do"?? I guess if I could,
I wouldn't be working at DEC?????
|