Conference napalm::guitar

    They are advertized in the back pages of Guitar Player magazine.
    I assume they are a 410 Bassman copy. The old Fender circuitry
    must be fairly easy to copy, although I'm sure a purist would
    insist on the real thing. Considering the 410 Bassmans were
    50 watt amps using 2 6l6gc, I would expect this amp to sell
    for around  $500. Any more than that, you might as well look
    for the real thing.
    
    Look for an eventual product profile in GP.
    
    Mark
    
    

	RE: .1

	Considering that original 410 Tweed Bassmans are selling
	for around $1500.00 these days, I wonder what a new 'copy'
	would sell for. I agree that $500.00 would seem a reasonable
	price, but reasonable prices aren't always easy to come by!
	Collectors would certainly insist on the real mccoy, but if
	someone was merely interested in being able to produce the
	'vintage' sound, they might not care if it was a copy that
	was doing it.

	That also raises the question of how close to the original
	the sound would be. THD certainly can't be using the vintage
	Jensen speakers.  I wonder if they use Celestions. It would
	also be interesting to see how close the circuitry in the
	copy is to the original.

	In any case, it would seem that THD is a small company and
	there doesn't seem to be a wealth of knowledge about them
	readily available.  I'm toying with the idea of sending an
	inquiry to try and get more information about them. If/when
	I find anything more out, I'll post it here.

	Steve

    There is a short blurb in the latest guitar player magazine
    about this amp in the "It's New" section. The amp is supposed
    to be as close to the original as possible both soundwise,
    and looks wise. They use their own brand of speakers, which
    could be OEM'ed by anyone. This amp includes an efx loop which
    is foot-switchable. In an attempt to keep the amp looking 
    like the original throughout, they hid the efx loop send/return/
    footswitch jacks on the underside of the chassis. 
    
    There is no mention of price. The amp is probably over-priced
    but there is no way they would sell any if they are over $1000,
    since you could get the real thing for $1000 to $1500.
                                  
    I'd like to hear one to see just how much it sounds like the
    real thing !!
    
    Mark Jacques
    

    Well, for grins I gave THD a call; they'll be sending me some info
    in a few days.  While I had them on the phone I inquired about the
    list price:

    $1699!!!
    
    They justify this price by the claim that their amp is constructed to
    MIL spec component and assembly standards (high silver content solder,
    state of the art PC boards, etc.) giving improved reliability and noise
    immunity.  They describe it as sounding just like the original Bassman
    at both clean and overdriven levels, but quieter than most solid state
    amps.  Sounds like the Dumble philosophy.  Note that this amp has no
    channel switching, no overdrive circuits, no master volume.  Their one
    concession to modern amp design is the inclusion of an effects loop, a
    really good idea.

    I asked them who they thought the market for this amp was.  They expect
    to sell these to professional musicians and recording artists (ZZ Top,
    Los Lobos, Eric Clapton, and the Fabulous Thunderbirds all have orders in)
    and doctors, lawyers, etc (DEC engineers? ;-) who play on the side.
    Here's some (perhaps) interesting insight into how a company like this
    prices their product.  Their market research indicated two very strong
    price points for musical instruments/amps, one at $950 and one at $1699.
    They picked a price point and targeted their design to it.  Somewhere in
    our conversation, Paul Reed Smith guitars came up; they see their amp as
    addressing much of the same market segment as PRS.

    I think its interesting that someone is actually trying something like
    this.  A lot of people will scoff and say this amp is way overpriced for
    what it does, considering the amount of overdrive and signal processing
    your dollar will buy these days.  But that's missing the point somewhat.
    A Stradivarius is way overpriced for what it does too.  Now, I don't mean
    to put a Bassman in the same league with a fine violin, but the fact is
    that these amps do have a unique character that just can't be gotten
    anywhere else.  The difference between a real Bassman and the Bassman
    patch in good programmable pre-amp may be very subtle, but for those who
    appreciate and enjoy this difference, it can be worth the extra bucks.
    Perhaps THD's pricing strategy is right on the mark.
    
    THD distributes their amps through dealers; they currently have no
    distributor lined up in the Boston area.  No amps have been shipped yet
    either, but they said expect to see them on the East coast starting around
    September.

    So, anyone want to put together a group order :--))

    /rick

    ps although it is true that a real 4-10 Bassman will run you anywhere
    from $800 to $1500 these days, the fact is that its currently hard to
    buy one at any price.  I get a couple of lists from national vintage
    dealers and regularly visit the ones in the Boston area; haven't seen
    a late model tweed Bassman (the early ones had 1 15" and different
    circuitry) for sale anywhere in over a year.

    $1699.00?????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    Tell them to get bent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    I'm not interested anymore - I'll buy a simulclass boogie first!!!!!!!
    
    THD - Rots 'o ruck!
    
    Steve
    

    
    Gee, Steve, that's a little extreme....
    
    From Rick's reply I guess I can see where the company is coming
    from.  If you consider that a *real* Bassman will run you up to
    $1500 *if* you can find one, plus that the THD is designed to be
    lower noise and has an effects loop, I would think that the price
    is reasonable if not in the range of the average guy.
    
    That price is not so far out of line, BTW.  The Ampeg SVT that bass
    players have love for years now costs $2700 list for the head and
    one cabinet. 

						Brian

    Yeah, I guess you're right . . . my last comment was a sticker-shock
    reaction.  I was hoping that the price was going to be around $1000.00,
    that would be about my cutoff point of affordability.  If it's built
    to last and it also produces that specical sound it's probably worth
    it.  I know I won't be buying one, but I'd still like to hear one!
    
    Steve

    In my reply, I tried to point out that THD seems to have arrived
    on this price primarily through market research.  It's kind of like
    "a lot of merchandise moves in this price range, so lets sell our
    product there".  One would hope that they didn't just inflate the price
    arbitrarily, and that it accurately reflects the quality.  THD admits
    they don't expect to sell these to Joe blues musician.
    
    Note that Dumble amps, even more outrageously priced, are a similar
    beast (there's a Dumble note in here somewhere).  Based somewhat on
    the Fender Deluxe, they use hand selected components and high quality
    construction materials and techniques.  Even so, Stevie Ray Vaughn
    reports having reliability problems with all four of his Dumble heads
    during the recording of his recent album.  Interestingly, Stevie's
    favorite amp on the date was a tweed Bassman.

    /rick

    ps rumor has it that Fender may be doing their own Bassman reissue
    sometime soon

    It will be interesting to see if this company is still around
    in 3 years. I'm always amazed to look at 8 year old guitar 
    magazines and see how many music companies have gone
    belly-up.
    
    -Tom

>>>>> .8  THD admits they don't expect to sell these to Joe blues musician.

	What a shame, considering that's what the 4x10 Tweed Bassman was
	all about in the first place . . . the perfect blues guitar amp.

	Maybe we'll have something to look forward to with Fender's own
	reissue.  (hope, hope).

	Steve

    I got some literature in the mail from THD today.  Here are a few of
    the interesting details:
    
    - the amp comes with their own "Vintage Series" speakers, providing
      the same "low-volume clarity and high volume breakup" of the original
      blue Jensens, but rated at twice the wattage (20w per speaker
      vs 10w) for better reliability.  Optional speaker packages include
      4x10 "Longhorn" speakers and a 1x15, for that "Texas" sound.
    
    - cicuitry is on an extra-thick epoxy-fiberglas pc board, with
      components and connections laid out to simulate the point-to-point
      wiring of the original.

    - the output transformer is billed as "the same as the original".
      The 4 speakers are wired in parallel, bringing output impedance
      down to 2 ohms.  This "causes substantial current to develop in
      the output transformer secondary windings, giving the 4-10's
      output section its uniquely authentic character and cello-like
      sound".  There's an additional 8 ohm tap and jack for external
      speakers.
    
    - there's a bit of controversy re rectifier tubes in old Fenders;
      about half the people you ask will say that tube rectifiers don't
      affect the sound and that a solid state rectifier is more reliable
      and a better alternative.  The other half will claim that the tube
      rectifiers do matter, that they react to increased signal demands
      and soften the sound.  THD stakes out a middle ground; they use an
      exclusive "reactive rectifier" circuit that's solid state but
      "mimics the softness and compression of a tube rectifier".

    - the active effects loop can be totally disabled.  It can also
      be used without effects, the send and return level controls acting
      like a switchable master volume and boost.  Options include a
      foot switchable reverb in place of the effects loop.
    
    - throughout the pamphlet, they use phrases like "increased
      reliability", "reduced noise", "road-worthiness", emphasizing
      that this is where the added value is over an original Bassman.

    - production began in late July, first models will be shipped in
      August
    
    It looks like they know all the buzzwords and are pushing all the
    right buttons; if the product lives up to the hype, it will be a
    very nice (albeit expensive) little toy.  They claim to have a good
    number of orders from well-known artists.  If it impresses enough
    of those people and starts getting favorable press, they just might
    sell a few.  Then I'll have to convince my family that we don't need
    to eat for a month :-)))
    
    /rick

    I found a dealer who plans to carry the THD amp
    when it becomes available:
    
    	Music Warehouse
    	163 Islington St.
    	Portsmouth, NH
    
    The owners name is Rod Welles.  He says he expects
    the THD to retail for around $1500.00.

    I wonder what THD stands for . . .
    besides total harmonic distortion . . .
    
    maybe Tweed-Heavy Duty?
    
    or is the guy who owns the company named Theodore Harrison Davis?
    
    :-)

    Performance-wise the amp may be well worth the price (or maybe close),
    but what about resale value. 
    
    Look at the Guitar copy market. Companies like Tokai, Fernandez,
    etc. all copy Strats, Tele, P-basses, J-basses. Some are as good
    or better than an actual Fender, however, (American made) Fenders 
    hold their price almost indefinately, while copies lose much of
    their value the minute they are sold.  I predict that many people
    will buy new THD amps, keep them for a short time, and then resell
    them for well under $1000. Many may kick themselves when they
    realize they could have put together a real flexible rack system
    for the same price.
    
    Considering a new Fender Twin sells for about $900, I would imagine
    that if Fender reissues the 410 Bassman, they will list for about
    the same as a Twin, since the Twin has many more features, and
    much greater power than a 410 Bassman. 
    
    Mark
    

    
    Looks like THD may be in for a tough time....at the NAMM show, Fender
    reportedly showed the long-rumored reissue of the tweed 4-10 Bassman
    amp.  List price supposedly $900.  Blues players, get in line now...
    
    						
    							Brian

    The new issue of GP is an amp special, and they do a head-to-head
    comparison of the Bassman reissue, the THD and an amp called Kendrick
    (seems similar to the THD).  They got five guitarists from Texas (where
    else....hahahaha) to try 'em out and threw in a real 1959 Bassman as a
    control.  Interesting reading.
    
    Also David Hicks reviews the Peavey Classic in the same issue.  It's
    cheaper ($700 list), has reverb, a high gain "second" channel, master
    volume and tweed-looking vinyl instead of linen covering.  In general,
    a compromise between a vintage piece and a "modern" amp (would you
    really pay $1800 for an amp with no MV or reverb?).  Surprise, instead
    of 2 6L6s, this uses four EL84s, like an AC-30.  If these sell on the
    street in the $500 range, they could be happening.
    
    
    						Brian
    					
    				     Waiting_for_a_$2000_B15_clone