Conference napalm::guitar

    I'm not too sure about the actives, but if you really want out of phase
    you can switch the ground and signal leads on one of the pickups and
    it'll be out of phase for real. Most people don't really want this
    sound it's very bright with no middle at all. However, if what you want
    is the sound of a strat with the middle and bridge pickup selected
    (classic Clapton sound) then you can't get it out of those pickups (as
    near as I can tell). What you need is to replace the humbucker with
    another single coil. My experience with the actives has led me to
    believe that they just won't sound the same as a passive single
    coil, so your results may not be that great.
    
    dbii

    RE .0 
    
    What does it sound like? I don't have active pickups,
    but I have the same pickup configuration (2 single 
    coils-neck and mid, and a hb. in the bridge position).
    
    With the five-position switch, I have the same problem.
    All the other positions sound great, but when I select
    the humbucker and the middle single coil pickup together
    I get a tinny, trebley sound that is pretty useless.
    
    You could put a single coil in the bridge position as 
    mentioned, but then the guitar wouldn't be as versatile.
    
    -Tom

    
    This is a problem when mixing humbuckers and single coils in either
    true or pseudo out of phase connections.  The greater the difference
    in tone between the two pickups, the more signal cancellation you
    get, making for the extremely thin sound mentioned.

    On my strat I have a (Semour duncans all) Jeff beck humbucker at
    the bridge and two hot stacks (middle/neck). I can get a reasonable
    but not great pseudo_Clapton sound out of it....but I've been toying
    with ripping out the pickguard and installing my old one with the
    three hot stacks in it....so I can get that sound. 
    
    dbii

    
    
    	I agree with dbii, my Mustang (you guys remember the one I just
    modified) Fender's stock wiring selecting both pickups with the
    "hot" and ground terminals reversed.  Being a Clapton fan, I couldn't
    get by without this phase selection.  I would suggest adding a dpdt
    that allows switching the one or the other of them out of phase
    when they (middle and bridge) are both selected.... I'm not a guitar
    electronics wizard, but I believe that a true wizard coudl figure
    out a way to switch phase for thos two pickups and keep your strat
    stock....
    
    
    Speaking of wizards... our good friend Don Pillsbury (proprietor of
    Pillsbury Music here in the Augusta area died last night.  33 years old
    and the finest, musician, music store owner and friend that any
    guitar player could ever want.  He'll be sorely missed here, when
    you get to a sweet bluesy part of your practice today, please think
    of Don...
    
    
    Steve

	Well depending on what set of EMG's you have you maybe out of luck,
here's what I can tell you.
	I seriously considered EMG actives mainly because they are found
on so many high end guitar's like the Valley Art's and Pensa Suhr gtr's
and they have a reputation for being quiet.
	I had an oppurtunity to try a Steinberger(Rutherford model?) with
a set of Emg's when set to any of the out of phase sounding positions I
could not get the "Claptonish,Knoppler etc." sound. I thought that it had
something to do with body/neck,but decided to call EMG and ask for a catalog
and some info. Come to find out that in strat type pickup's there are 
EMG-S's and EMG-SA,the -S's have EMG imprinted in silver and the -SA's have
EMG inprinted in gold coloring. What I was told by an EMG engineer was
EMG-S's are the strat sounding pickup and will give you all the strat sounds 
you want(out of phase)the EMG-SA's will not give you this out of phase
sound and the difference between the 2 pickup's is the resonant peak. He
spent some time talking about pickup's and there fat control etc...on
"his" phone bill. There catalog say's they can't be modified so be careful!
	With EMG's(active) you are going to a Low impedeance system how-
ever I was told I couldn't use my non active pickup's whereas Seymour Duncan
offer's an active setup which will allow you to use you current pickup. 
	I have yet to hear a bridge pickup which was versatile and that 
I liked. 
	Has anyone tried the Seymour Duncan Hot Rails pickup? Or can anyone
give me an idea as to how it stacks up to a Gibson Humbucker?

							Rick	

    Thanks everybody,thats the info I needed.
    One more question; Can the signal and ground lines be swapped on
    EMG actives given the complex earthing setup?
    
    Kevin C
    

    	I don't believe they can as EMG actives have a preamp built
    into the pickup. I'd suggest you call them at (707)525-9941 which
    is a number I have for them in Santa Rosa,Calif. I sure they can
    answer all your questions and maybe make some suggestions on how
    to modify your sound.
    
    						Good Luck
    
    							Rick
    

     Thanks Rick,but living in Ireland as I do, the cost of a phone
    call to Santa Rosa would probably exceed the cost of the pickups.
    However,I figure you are right about the polarity thing.
    Thanks again
    
    Kevin C
    
    

    	Sorry,I didn't notice location,I'll check into the
    package I got from EMG and see if I can get details
    

    Try:
    
    Rhino Music Spares
    Burnham Road
    Kent 0322-77321
    
    they at one time were the EMG reps in the UK
    
    good luck
    
    dbii

    	In the literature from EMG there was a question/answer of several
    pages which says
    
    Q:"Can I wire Emg(active) pickup's in Series Parallel?"
    
    A:"No, You cannot Because each pickup has a preamp in it...."
                                                           
    	They suggested coil splitting can be "simulated" by using there
    EMG-DMSK ....
    
    							      Rick
    

      Thanks  Rick,
    It seems the only option is a new single coil.
    

	A new single coil won't help you as you can not mix
EMG actives which are a low impedance setup with a pickup which
is a high impedance. This is EMG specific,other manufacturers
vary(ie Seymour Duncan) However EMG does make a humbucking pickup
which is a single coil in a humbucking housing. Emg-H is the model
and has the same resonant peak(or very similiar)as there EMG-S
which is the "strat sound" replacement pickup. Of course realize
the economics of buying one pickup(low imp.) or 3 (high imp.) Plus
the amount of noise you get from high impedance systems,both with
single coil and humbuckers. In a "live" situation it's probably a 
don't care,but with recording I've found it's quite different. But 
I have yet learned to live with this and sometimes it drives my ears 
crazy. 

						Good Luck

							Rick

    OK...for years now I read all the hoopla about EMG pickups...
    and how everyone whos anyone was using them, etc!
    
    Well, this new guitarist I'm jamming with has a Charvel Strat
    (aack) complete with EMG's, and his axe soundz awesome!!!
    
    I'm converted!  Looking to buy a humbucker or two real soon!
    
    Buck, converted to active pickups

	if you stumble across anything with EMG89s (the dual [split] mode
	ones) puhleeze drop a note and tell us all about `em.

	I just got the latest catalog last Friday - if you want a xerox
	of it drop me a line with your MS.

	ccb

not to be vituperative but 

Active EMG's


YUCCK!

JMHO

dbii

    How much is the Dual (split) EMG?  Isn't that the single coil that acts
    like a humbucker?
    
    I'd love to put a humbucker in my Mustang at the bridge.  Hopefully
    this will save me some routing.
    
    Mike

	The Dual-Mode is a humbucker-sized pickup with outputs for
	humbucking and single coil operation.

	If you were to go with EMGs you'd go active and you'd go low-Z.
	This would require that you bought 2 pickups. You have to take
	either their tele or strat pickups (T, TC, S, SA). The T & TC
	pickups are $165 a pair (list), the S and SA pickups list at
	$71 a piece. I don't know if these prices include the battery
	clip and whatever other preamp stuff.

	These are not humbuckers. They are active pickups and the noise
	is reduced by the onboard preamp. The catalog says they're
	-85dbV quiet which is meaningless to me but I guess that must
	be damn quiet if they're so proud of it.

	I can see problems with wiring a Mustang with these babies that
	maybe someone else can address.... could active pickups like
	these be installed and still permit the use of the phase switches?

re: EMGs

I have the active three single coil EMG set in my Strat and they are the 
best sounding pickups I've ever heard, bar none.  They have incredible 
clarity and the single coils still retain that single coil edge, but with 
more output, AND they're quiet!

The Jackson active setup in my Charvel can't hold a candle to the EMGs.

re: Mike

.-1's right, you can't mix active with passive.  If you want to replace just
one of the pickups in the Mustang, you'd need a passive pickup.  I suggest
a Duncan or Dimarzio stacked humbucker if that's the way you want to go.

I forget, does a Mustang have two pickups or three?   One of the nice things
about EMG is that you can get the pickups in a set that's all prewired with
the pots and switch and everything.  I doubt they have a "Mustang" set, but
they definatly have a Strat set (three single coils) and a Tele set (two single
coils) that might work.  I don't remember right off, but I *think* they have 
hybred sets too (Double/Single/Single, etc).

The best price I've ever seen on EMGs is from Rice Music right here in Colorado
Springs, and they will ship them to you.  Alan Starr, Tom Gallo and others 
have ordered these pickups from them.  Last time I checked, a Strat set 
(pre-wired) was about $155. 1-800-444-RICE, talk to Walter and tell him I
told you to call...

Greg

	As they list at $213.

    Mustangs are 2 single coil ala the Tele setup.
    
    Mike

The EMG actives are great for a Strat - I highly recommend them! But that's 
mostly because the stock Strat pickups are too damn noisy, have too low an 
output to overdrive, etc. On the other hand, I don't think I'd replace a 
humbucker wtih EMGs, cuase I'm not sure you'd gain anything. I love the sound 
of my LP as is, and I wouldn't think of changing it. Whereas with the Strat, I 
still retain that Strat tone, but the EMGs can much more also.

alan

    
    Buck, you can't beat EMG 85's (what I use). Wicked tone (the sound
    that is, not me!).                                              
                                                           
    Cheers,                                                
    -Tone                                                  

	You'd probably be better off with Lace Sensors....

    I had an EMG in my Kramer , broke it, and replaced it with a SD
    Invader.  I kept the Invader, but recall liking the EMG sound better.
    Now what we have to do is get Buck to go Bich!! YEA!

       The EMG 81 model is the pickup to use if you want to get that killer
    crunch distortion sound. This pickup along with a good distortion sound 
    on your amplifier should give you an excellent sound.
    
       I put an EMG 81 in my Les Paul Standard's bridge position. The only
    problem was getting 25k pots designed especially for Les Pauls. The
    wood on Les Pauls is thick where you insert the pots and the pots that
    come with the pickup don't have a long enough threaded shaft to go
    through to the face of the guitar so that you can put the nuts on to
    hold them in place, so you have to order special 25K pots from EMG
    because nobody else carries these special pots. You have to use 25K
    pots to be compatable with and get maximum output out of the EMG
    pickup, but it's worth the trouble to order the pots. They are built
    alot better than the cheap whimpy 25K pots that come with the pickup
    and you really don't have a choice which really sucks.
    
    Metallica and Slayer are just a couple of groups that use the EMG 81.
    
    
    Take it easy
    
    TJ

    
       
      Me too! My Les Paul Showcase came with EMG's already installed at
    Gibson. It was the first time I didn't gut a LP. My first Les Paul 
    was the cheap model w/o the arched top, I think it was called a
    55 reissue. I took out the soapbar pickups and put in a set
    of Dimarzio Super 2's. I got good money for it when I sold it for:
    A Les Paul Custom - candy apple red with the gold pickups. I replaced
    these with EMG's (EMG-81/EMG-H) and went through the same thing with the
    potentiometers that you did! I used this axe for a few years and sold it 
    to a good friend of mine for $400. He still has it.
      Buckley has seen the LP that I've had for the last three years. It's 
    a real sharp Greyburst wiht the trapezoid inlays and black hardware.
    Since it came with EMG's I haven't changed a thing on this guitar.
    
      I'm considering putting a set of EMG's on my BC Rich ST-3. I've got a
    Dimarzio Megadrive in the bridge which is pretty cool, but the two
    single coils that came with the guitar are real wimpy. The whole EMG
    hum/single/single should sound good with this axe. 
    
    							-B{}{}M-

    Gimme an 89 anyday!

    Any comment on the SA?

    The SA's are nice single coil replacements, much quieter with better
    output.
    
    Greg

I have used the 81, the 85, the 89 and the SA's.

The 89 is advertised as sounding like an 85 in humbucker mode and a SA in
single coil mode. I think it sounds like an 81 in humbucker mode and pretty
close to an SA but not quite as ballsy. I put an 85 in my ESP (replacing the 
81), and I think I'm gonna change it back. The 85 is a meaty, hot PAF kind
of sound, the 81 has mucho edge and not as much meat, kinda like the old
mini-humbuckers that gibson put on some of their guitars, it's a humbucker
but it has more hi end and less meat.

The SA's are a hot single coil replacement. Much hotter than the EMG-S (which
is supposed to be a "classic" strat sound). I like 'em alot, they have a
really cool sound clean with a lite touch of chorus, very fluid and etherial 
(sp?).


dbii who is now thinking of 3 SA's for the strat...

    This is pretty much to dbII, but anyone out there really who knows
    about EMGs.
    
    Well, I'm finalling breaking down (and breaking out the bank book) and
    installing EMGs in my beloved Ibanez RG550!!!  I'm going for an 
    89 - SA - 89 combo.  Along with that, I want to install two new pots,
    the push-pull type, so the 89's can be tapped to single coil's (SA
    mode??).  Question is -- Do EMGs requre special pots to work with
    their pickups??  If so, do they offer special pots??  Do they COME with
    special pots?? 
    
    WHAT....
    
    Any info would be great....Buck

EMG's come with the required POTs, don;t break 'em though, replacements are
expensive! I paid $12 for one, and since they're 25K low impedance finding
a replacement source is difficult.

The 89's will come with a special pot, that has the switch for the single coil
/humbucker positions (push/pull pot). It's a pain in the ass to wire up but
they work great!

dbii

>The 89's will come with a special pot, that has the switch for the single coil
>/humbucker positions (push/pull pot). It's a pain in the ass to wire up but
>they work great!
    
    Cool!  That's great that the pickups come with the required hardware
    for installation.  As far as wiring goes, my guitar tech can worry
    about that mess!!
    
    
    Thanks muchly,
    Buck-e-lee

    EMG's suck!

EMG's suck?

You just felt the wind they made when they blew away your strat pickups :-)

dbii

    >EMG's suck?
    >You just felt the wind they made when they blew away your strat pickups
    >:-)
    
    I wouldn't know an EMG pickup if it walked up to me an introduced
    itself...I wuz jes tryin' to get a rise outa Mr. Everything Sucks
    (Buck)....
    
    8^)

    >I wouldn't know an EMG pickup if it walked up to me an introduced
    >itself...I wuz jes tryin' to get a rise outa Mr. Everything Sucks
    >(Buck)....
    
    It didn't work!
    ;')
    
    Buck, who only said "Tube Screamers Suck" yesterday to do my Beevis
    imitation...heh...heh heh...

    >It didn't work!
    >;')
    
    I know....the power of notes...you can just ignore me!
    
    >Buck, who only said "Tube Screamers Suck" yesterday to do my Beevis
    >imitation...heh...heh heh...
    
    You know an imitation is good when somebody recognizes it in writing!
    
    DawgButtHead
    

>    You know an imitation is good when somebody recognizes it in writing!
    
    I recognized it instantly.  Heh heh...heh.

Buck,

 dbii lives...sort of...aside from being totally buried here at ASO, I've been
busy with the band, a collapsing home (both the house and the marriage) etc.

anyway I do have a concern...you can't mix and match with EMG's they're low
impedance. The duncan (I think) is a high impedance pickup...it just won't
work. At least I don't think so.

dbii

    WOAH -- _major_ mind wipe here -- let me repost this so it makes a
    little more sense...
    
    
    
    a few back, db_II (whar is he?!?) wrote:
    
    
>EMG's come with the required POTs, don;t break 'em though, replacements are
>expensive! I paid $12 for one, and since they're 25K low impedance finding
>a replacement source is difficult.

    Ok, I'll be gentle!  ;')
    
    
>The 89's will come with a special pot, that has the switch for the single coil
>/humbucker positions (push/pull pot). It's a pain in the ass to wire up but
>they work great!
    
    I have two 89s and an SA on order from ___EMG__ as I write.  They should
    be in next week if all goes well.
    
    Anywho, I don't have to worry about re-writing my RG550 to accommodate
    this setup (the two new pots and three new pickups, etc.) -- my guitar
    tech does.
    
    Question I have for the circuit droids in this conference (as I am not
    of that ilk) -- could I somehow, possibly, wire in small LEDs to 
    accompany the 89 pickups?  Could I power these off the 9V battery for
    the pickups??
    
    More specifically ... I plan to really do a lot of switching between
    Humbucker and single coil with this setup.  I would "like" to have two
    very small LEDs mounted on the pickguard near the pots to act as a
    'visual aid' as to when the push/pull pots are engaged -- for those
    times when you wanna know, and can't remember how you last pushed
    them?!
    
    Anyway, that's my basic inquiry -- please respond if you have any
    thoughts or suggestions...thanks
    
    B
                                                   

Ok that's better...

I don't think there are any spare switch connections on the push/pull pot.
However; you can tell just by looking at the pot, difficult in a dark club
situation. You also ought  to be able to tell from the sound...I dunno maybe
that 5150 will have so much gain it's hard to tell? :-)

The pot is pullup (click) you;re in whichever mode you had it wired for, push
down back to the other mode. 

A word to the wise, if you want humbucking mode to be the pot is pushed down
be sure to tell your tech, as the directions have pushed down setup as single
coil first, and in my experience most techs never consider the question and 
just wire it to that configuration.

Andy (my other git player) just had his done and was somewhat unhappy with the
results.

dbii

>However; you can tell just by looking at the pot, difficult in a dark club
>situation. You also ought  to be able to tell from the sound...I dunno maybe
>that 5150 will have so much gain it's hard to tell? :-)
>
>The pot is pullup (click) you;re in whichever mode you had it wired for, push
>down back to the other mode. 
    
    Thanks, that clarifies a lot.  I think visual aids should be ok then.
    
    You see, I had an old Ibanez (PL2550) that had a humbucker that was
    split via a push-pull pot, however, this one just "clicked" when you 
    pushed it -- i.e, it would return to the same height (much like the
    switches on those old MXR floor boxes!).  Hence, you could absolutely
    NOT tell what mode it was in by looking at it.
    
    Sorry to hear Andy is unhappy with the sound...hmmm, wonder why?!?
    What kind of axe does he play?  I thought your pickups sounded mint
    through my 5150 that time, and have been wanting these pickups ever
    since.
    
    Thanks again for the input db_II
    B

    I donno about Andy, but I can tell you what I didn't like about the EMG
    set that I used for awhile.  It was a very smooth, powerful, sort of
    compressed kind of sound.  Sounded great through my Mp-1, my GK, even
    my Kitty Hawk...all very smooth sounding amps.  When I wanted that
    singing supercompressed distortion sound, it was killer.  When my
    tastes in sound started changing to a lower-gain, grittier sort of
    distortion sound, and my amp changed to a Marshall, I found that there
    was a sparkle to passive pickups that I really liked in that type setup
    that wasn't there with the EMGs.  Yes, they can sound good, but there
    was something subtle, somewhat intangible about them that I didn't
    like.  They were sort of subtly muddy or dark compared to their passive
    counterparts.  I don't think it was the set because I used 3 different
    sets (different vintage) in two different guitars, I had the exact same
    complaint with 'em when used with that particular amp.
    
    My other complaint was fixable, but I never fixed it.  Both of the sets
    I had with 2 SA single coils and a humbucker had an 81 for the
    humbucker.  The 81 is SO bright that the tone was totally unbalanced
    between the pickups in the set.  You basically COULDN'T change pickups
    without completely changing the tone controls on the amp.  If you set
    it up for the 81, the SAs sounded murky, muddy, and dark.  If you set
    it up for the SAs, the 81 would rip your head off.  I can't figure out
    why anyone would actually buy a set like that!  IMHO, it was utterly
    unusable.
    
    Greg