Conference napalm::guitar

    You could look at the SPX90II's...
    
    

    I don't think the DSP-128 has distortion, but check with Coop.
    Yamaha offers a GEP-50 (rack mount version of REX50) endorsed
    by Joe Walsh.  It's supposed to be pretty good.  Lot's of people
    like the ME-5, I've never had experience with one, but Tom
    Desrochers(sp?) has one and db was looking into them at one time.
    I just bought a Multiverb and I must say that it's one of the finest
    multieffects processors I've ever had the pleasure of using.  Only
    thing is, it doesn't have distortion (I use it in conjunction with
    a ProCo RAT).  Price was $429.

    The DSP128 has an integral eq built into it. It definately does
    not have distortion, compression, or overdrive. I would
    recommend the GP8, but if this is out of your range, then 
    it is between the ME5 and the GEP50. I haven't demoed the
    GEP50 yet but it has been well reviewed.
    
    Actually, the ME5 has some advantages over the GP8. The biggest
    is the reverb which the GP8 does not have. Another nice feature
    is the headphone jack, which the GP8 also does not have. The
    ME5 is probably the easiest multieffect unit to use. simply
    plug it in, plug you guitar into it, and it into the amp, and
    you are ready to go. Other units will require you to set up 
    a rack (hopefully it will be stable on top of your amp), then
    set up a floor controller (which you will probably find cumbersome
    to program, as well as expensive to add), with a lot more cabling
    to hook everything up. All things considered, I believe an ME5
    is all most guitarists will ever need in a multieffect, and easiest
    to use. Also the integral effects loop and noise gate allow you
    to add some of you favorite stomp box effects to the setup.
                           
    There is a note dedicated to the ME5 and GP8 somewhere around
    #850. I'll find it and post it here later
    
    Good Luck,
    Mark
    

    Note 860 is all about the ME5 and GP8.
    
    Mark

    
    
                Doesn't your Marshall crank enough already?
          What kind/kinds of distortion are you looking for?
    
                                                        CMD

    I use the DSP128 in conjunction with a rockman sustainer. This setup
    with the MIDI foot control for the DSP should be in your price range.
    This will give you the reverb that the GP-8 does not.
    
    Jim
    

    re: .5
    
    The Marshall distortion does great for rhythm playing at extreme
    volumes, but it lacks a lot as far as sustain (like I want ...)
    goes, especially at lower volumes.  
    
    I tried a DSP-128 today and was pretty impressed, but I'm learning,
    thanx to you guyz, that there are a blue million multi-effects units
    out there - guess I'm going to be pretty busy demo-ing all of these!
    
    Anybody (Buck !) tell me what the ADA pre-amp unit goes for ?  With
    foot controller of course ...
    
    
    					Jerry

    The ADA MP1 sells for around $499 plus $200 for the foot controller,
    but keep in mind this is really not a multi-effect unit. This is
    a guitar preamp, which has builtin in effects (compression and chorus),
    but it's biggest selling point is the fact that it is a "tube" as
    well as a transistor preamp. This will do lots of great distortion
    and clean sounds, but a multieffect unit would be more like the
    ME5 (multieffect x 5), or GEP5(guitar effects processor x 5). Granted,
    these units may serve as a preamp, into a recording board, or PA,
    but they have all the effects usually associated with multi-effect
    units (reverb, delay, chorus, flange, compresssion, distortion/
    overdrive).
     
    Have fun shopping
    Mark
    

    I have the 128 Jerry tried out yesterday.
    
    I was also wondering about the MP1.
    
    Currently I have a Marshall JCM2204 and a JCM2205 (50wt tube heads; one
    switchable, one not).  I run thru a rack with a DSP128, Roland SDE3000 
    ddl, and an Ibanez GE1502 stereo EQ.  I get all kinds of kool sounds.
    My gripe is that it's not very versatile.  I like that very wet
    sound (ala Lynch, Skeotch, DiMartini etc...), but sometimes you
    need that clean sound at the flick of a switch...Ya know ?
    
    Also, the Marshalls don't seem very bright, nor do they sound really
    *nasty*.  The pre-amp controls are happy at about 7=.  Above that
    they start to hiss like crazy.
    
    What I've considered doing is trading the marshalls for a power
    amp and the ADA MP-1.  Would this along with the other rack mountable
    goodies make the ultimate rack ?
    
    Question about MIDI in general... Would the MP-1 controller pass
    patch changes to the DSP-128, or would I need two pedals ?

    What other kinds of Rack mountable MIDI preamps are out there ?
    
    Jeff

    I surveyed five area retailers for prices on the ADA MP-1 last fall.
    Here's what I got (over the phone), also these prices include the
    foot controller:
    
    	Mr. C's		$774.00
    
    	Hamel		$774.00
    
    	Performance	$725.00
    
    	Steve's		$998.95 (list price)
    
    	Wurlitzer's	$800.00
    
    	The mean comes out to $814.39, so if you beat that you should
    	be getting a *reasonable* deal.  Also, don't know how prices
    	in N.C. compare to prices in Mass.
    
    	Last Friday afternoon I demo'd a GP-8 and a Multiverb through
    	two Fender Twins (did this at Wurli's -- went in to buy a $20
    	footpedal, oh well...I'll take the demo no prob.)  Absolutely
    	*the ballz*.  You can program the Multiverb to switch from
    	patch to patch along with changes in the GP-8.  The only thing
    	better than this might be...well, I'm sure everyone can insert
    	their favorite possibilities, but I'd say an MP-1, a GP-8, a
    	Multiverb, an Aphex Aural Exciter through two Marshall 2X12
    	cabs hooked up in stereo of course!!
    
    	joe.

>    	Last Friday afternoon I demo'd a GP-8 and a Multiverb through
>    	two Fender Twins (did this at Wurli's -- went in to buy a $20
>    	footpedal, oh well...I'll take the demo no prob.)  Absolutely
>    	*the ballz*.  
    
    Did you end up with BOTH a GP-8 and a Multiverb?   I'm not
    sure what you bought exactly.
    
    >You can program the Multiverb to switch from patch to patch along with 
    >changes in the GP-8.
    
    Actually the GP-8 can also control two non-MIDI devices as well
    as long as those devices have a footswitch control.  This is especially
    handy for devices you pretty much want ON or OFF for specific patches.
    
    Each GP-8 patch stores the settings for two footswitch controller
    outputs.
    
    Since the GP-8 does not have reverb, you can use these parameters
    to determine whether the builtin reverb from your amp, or the reverb
    from your rack-mount reverb for example is on or off for this sound.
    
    I have two amps, JC-120 (clean,efx) and Boogie (when I want to
    Boogie).  The wild thing is that even though I only route the
    GP-8 output to the JC-120, I can use the FC-100 foot controller to
    control the Boogie (channel, reverb, gain, etc.).  It's pretty
    wild.
    
    	db
    

    
    Coop...
    
    I cannot believe it when you say your marshalls are not very bright
    sounding.  Marshall, IMHO, is the BRIGHTEST sounding amp on the
    planet!!  I mean, try presence, treble and mid to 10 and bass on 3 and
    you'll get bright!!!  Also, you said you have a graphic eq...I don't
    see where the high-end definition problem is here??!! 
    
    I don't think you'd like the MP-1...while it is versitle, it is a very
    `warm' sound, and you CANNOT get that bright marshall squeek out of it
    really.  MP-1 sounds like an old Fender to me.
    
    Buck, who wants a Quadraverb and an aural exciter to be `happy'
    ;^)
     

    re: .12
    
    Actually, that eluded me the first time, but now that you mention
    it, it is sorta unusually bizarre to hear someone describing a Marshall
    as not being very "bright".
    
    I'm not sure if they're bright in the sense of producing a uniform
    top end, but I've always associated Marshalls as being distinctive
    in that they have a very significant high end "component".  My guess
    is that's what Buck refered to as the "squeek".
    
    	db

                          
	I'd highly recommend looking into the Alesis Quadraverb for
around $450 (in New England) for any of the Digital effect's. It
has a few more goodies than the DSP. For Distorion I would look into
the Chandler or Tubeworks effects rack distorion for flexibility,the
Rockmodule preamp series with a Graphic EQ will also give you some good 
sounds and can be found easily in the used market.
	I tried the Tubeworks in a foot pedal and was more impressed with 
it than I was with a Chandler rack distortion unit. tone/soundwise.....
	The ADA Mp1 as a preamp is the most impressive sounding and seems
to be flexibile/convienent. But I'd want to have some sort of Digital
effects coloration device to put with it.(ie. MidiverbII,DSP128+,Quadraverb
SPX90XX etc....) but this would put you over the limit you set....   
    I still like to tweak knob's and would be lost without them..
    
	So it's really a matter of what sounds the best to your ear? 

    	Hey db... tell us some more about your midi foot controller
    it sounds different...
							Rick

    Well, maybe I'm not describing these symtoms well enough...
    
    Maybe Jerry can help me out here...There seems to be more than 
    plenty of punch bass/mid *punch*;  I mean the volume will blast ya
    thru the wall...I've got my heads EQ'd like so:
    
    Bass: 2-3
    Mid:  8-9
    Treb: 10
    Pres: 10
    Gain: 7-8
    Mast: <insert_bloody_ears>
    
    My rack eq is maxed out from 1Khz up...Maybe I need some radio shack
    super tweets !  Am I too used to the way my GK sounds ?  I mean
    the GK is plenty bright !
    
    Now, about that QVerb...Awesome.  I played with one today... Like
    I designed my own rack at Express Music in Spartanburg...I had the
    MP-1, the QVerb, Roland Controller (FP100?) and the ADA tube power
    amp.  Whoa.  What a sound.  Unlike anything I've ever heard.  I
    mean WOW, and in a 5 space rack (there was some sholtz stuff in
    there too, but i didn't mess with it).
    
    Maybe what I need is a tube GK, yeah thats it...and I'll fit on
    my belt-pack too !   Thats the ticket !
    
    (I get so depressed when I go the the music store...)
    jc

    Just think...all that could be yours for about $2500!  ;^)  
                      
    Do both of the Marshall heads sound like that?  I had really severe
    tone problems with my Hiwatt until I retubed it.  Perhaps yours need a
    little TLC.  What kind of a cabinet are you running it through?
    
    Greg 

    Could be eh ?  I bought them used, so I don't know how long since
    the've been re-tubed.
    
    How do I tell ?  
    
    What kinda tubes does one want for his(her) marshalls ?  Like for
    that really wet sound ?  Can I do this myself ?  Do I need/can I
    get a schematic ?
    
    jc

    Coop.
    
    You'd be surprised what a new tubes and filter caps (and a little
    cleaning) will do for the sound of a marshall.  I suspect that
    the 2204 head you have is a JCM one with the 6550 output tubes in
    it?  You'd be much better off doing a 6550 to el34 mod on it, or
    both heads if that may be the case.  EL34's sound much better for
    that sweet compressed distortion. 6550's are a really hard tube,
    which have a high headromm resulting in a cleaner, less sustaining
    distortion.  The output tube mod. is not hard.  Richard Aspen Pitmann's
    book "the tube amp book" describes various mods for marshalls in
    the back...like hum reduction, output tube mod 100 - 50WT mods and
    a tube saver mod. Check it out.  Anyone of a number of people could
    provide you with the schematics for your marshalls in this conference.
    
    When you get some $$$, I'd suggest a new preamp and output ubes
    of a match quality, along with new filter caps and a bias job.
    Groove tubes or mesa tubes are cool, although some people really
    love the old fender type ratty tatty tubes! 

    Jeff's rig sounds like you have a blanket over the speaker cab !
    Clean, it sounds great ... dirty, sounds REAL dirty.  Buck may be
    right - a tube job may be your fix.  Score 1 point for my MOSFET,
    no tubes to blow.  Yeah, yeah, I already know all the points against
    it 8^)
    
    As far as my multi-effect situation goes, the more I think about
    it, the more "GP-8" keeps popping up.  I extracted all the replies
    last night concerning anything to do with effects, multi or otherwise,
    printed it out (400+ blocks ...) and scanned through it today. I
    came up with 2 major conclusions:
    
    1 - This conference has a wealth of information in it !  Thanx !
    2 - There are as many *good* set-ups as there are guitar players
    and budgets.  So ...
    
    I guess it's really up to the individual what ya want.  But what
    keeps bringing me back to the GP-8 is the ease of programming. For
    a working musician, he could program a mellow tone, a metal tone,
    and a lead tone for every song for 3 or 4 sets !  That's pretty
    versatile.  
    
    I was thinking about building a rack of effects but everything I
    want with the exception of digital reverb is already in the GP-8
    and by the time I buy all the pieces, string 'em together, and program
    'em, I would have spent more than the GP-8.  I figure each effect
    in the GP-8 is about $150, that ain't too bad.  And the expression
    pedal is a big bonus too.  As far as the reverb goes, I have it
    on my amp and for my purposes it would really only be useful during
    recording.  So Jeff, hang on to your DSP-128, we'll work out a deal
    next time we do some recording !
    
    I may try to go and demo the rack at Express Music Jeff talked about
    earlier this weekend ... the quest goes on ...
    
    
    
    				Jerry

    Don't worry Jerry, the DSP128 isn't going anywhere...
    
    All I need is a foot controller.  I'm gonna do the 6550 to el34
    mod that Buck suggests and replace the filter caps too (I bet those
    caps would knock me accross the room!).  If I'm still not happy
    I'll do one of those MP-1's or maybe one of those GK2100sel's or
    something.
    
    If I were you Jerry, I'd drag my mosfet head to the music store
    and try it out with the GP-8 first... Before I shelled out $1100.
    Just a thought.
    
    cj

    I tried to reply yesterday, but network partner exited, and my
    reply got blown away.
    
    This could be a great rathole to go down, but my idea of "the
    ultamate guitar efx rack" would consist of the following gear
    (from top to bottom):
    
    	Aris power controller with rack illuminators
    	Korg DT1 pro tuner (mounted nice and high for easy visibility)
    	Roland GP8
    	Roland pitch to midi convertor (for midi pickups)
    	Roland D5 (rackmount version of D50 keyboard synth)
    	Korg rack-mount drum machine
    	(Insert your favorite digital reverb here)
    	Eventide Harmonizor
    	Rocktron HushII noise gate
    	Rockman X100 with "rockmount" (for silent practicing)
    	Mesa Boogie Quad Preamp
    	Mesa Boogie Simul class power amp
    
    	The sky is the limit when it comes to efx racks. Howard Dumble
    is now offering rack mount versions of the steel string singer and
    overdrive preamps, and power amps (I believe they are known as the
    Phoenix series). The above mentioned rack would occupy about 18-20
    spaces and would cost ~ $10,000.oo. Better add a couple grand for
    speakers cabinets.
    
    	Mark
    
            
    

	The best way to help you decide is to try to do a side by side 
comparisions of the GP8 to other preamps. The yamaha has half the memory
space and I've been told it is very similiar in the kind's of sounds it 
put's out,plus it's less money. So defining just what sounds you need is
just part of it. Not knowing what and how you play really make's it hard
to help you define what you need. The flexibility of a GP8 in the right 
hand's of someone can be tremendous tool.It can also be a tremendous source
of frustration. And for the money it's a big loss if you do get frustrated
and decide on something else. Plus if your a working musician do you really
have the time to sit a program sounds? As far as having Digital Reverb 
once you have it you will use it and still use your amp reverb. I also
really didn't care for the distortion in a Gp8. (my opinion only)

	From what I have heard(personal experiance)the Gp8 sounded terrible
through a regular guitar amp(ie Boogie,Seymour Duncan) however Dave 
Blickstein has had some success with using a JC120 with it. I would recommend
that you investigate a power amp for it.

	I found what worked for me and my budget was a Midiverb II,Rock-
modules,IbanezTube screamer,2 EQ's(one for clean,one for dirt). I still 
would like another delay to complete the setup. and of course a midi pedal 
to control all.(I still have fast feet!) This covers 90% of what I play 
covers wise and I really don't have the price of a GP8 into it. Now some
people would consider this setup to be limited and it is. I'd love to have
an MP1 for added for flexibility. 
	Plus lower my tonnage requirements at weigh stations!  :^)

	With what is available today you can really get a lot of control
and tailor your sound('s)with the midi effects and pedals.

					I hope this isn't too soapboxish

						Good Luck....

							Rick

>    	Hey db... tell us some more about your midi foot controller
>    it sounds different...
    
    Well, I'm actually in the process of designing a pedal board.
    
    I have a friend with a pretty impressive woodworking shop and
    he's gonna build it for me.  It's got some pretty bizarre requirements
    due to the fact that I like to use two amps.  Like, for example,
    It's going to be divisable into three pieces, 1 for each amp
    when I only use one amp (jams, money gigs), and the third piece
    is sorta what you plug the first two into when I wanna use
    both amps (important gigs, recording, etc.)
    
    Anyway, the MIDI controller is really both the Roland FC-100
    foot pedal, AND the GP-8.
    
    The FC has this neat feature called "control" where you press a
    specific pedal and depending on what the FC is plugged into,
    a special function is performed.
    
    On the GP-8, the special function is to route the guitar signal
    to the tuner out of the FC and cut off the audio of the GP-8.
    
    Obviously, this is intended to be used for quiet tuning, but I think
    I'm going to use the control feature as an A/B switch between the
    two amps, and use a volume pedal to cutoff the amps when I want to
    tune.
    
    The GP-8 also has a programmable effects loop and two outputs to
    control any effect with a (non-momentary) footswitch type control
    function (typically bypass).
    
    The GP-8 is pretty hot, but it's expensive and it complicates things
    a lot by having more cords to setup, more equipment to carry around,
    etc.
    
    I think the ME-5 is a GREAT alternative.  It sounds great and its
    incredibly simple and convenient.  At various times, I wish I had
    settled on that instead of the GP-8 (no, I'm not willing to "trade").
    
    The great thing about the ME-5 is that you just set it down, plug
    it in and your off.   You can throw away the rockman too.  The ME-5
    has a headphone output and while you can't wear it on your waist,
    its effectively just as portable as the Rockman.  I wish I had
    something like that to take with me on vacations and trips to
    practice with.
    
    And its got reverb too (although you have to choose between reverb
    and delay as it can't do both simultaneously.)
    
    To me, comparing the MP1, Quadraverbs, DSP, SPX-90, etc. to the
    GP-8 and ME-5 is not entirely valid.  The MP1 is mostly a preamp
    thing although it does have some effects. The DSP, SPX, 4-verb, etc
    are all effects processors.
    
    The GP-8 (and ME-5) is specifically a GUITAR processor.  It has
    specific features for guitarists (tuner outputs, distortion,
    programmable effects loops, external effect control features, 
    integrated pedalboards, instrument outputs (for the amp) and
    line level outputs (for recording and PA), MIDI, etc.)
    
    These are all things that *I* use heavily cause I'm a technodweeb,
    but it may well be that most other guitar & amp type players don't
    need, want or understand that stuff.
    
    It's valid to consider the DSPs, MP1s with the GP-8's, but understand
    that they are different sorts of devices and understand the 
    advantages and disadvantages of what they are designed for.
    
    	db
    
    BTW, another difference between the ME-5 and GP-8 is that the
    ME-5 (I think) has a gate and the GP-8 doesn't.  I really do wish
    the GP-8 had reverb and a gate but being that I have those features
    in other equipment, it's not as important to me.
    
    And while I'm on the GP-8 wish list, I wish it had MIDI patch mapping.
    That would help you use MIDI to control fixed mapped things like 
    the MIDIVERB II.
    
    Some of these things being "software" and observing the fact that
    the GP-8 announces its software version on power-up... maybe someday...
    

    Re.  Midi mapping, the midiverbII has fixed mapping, etc.
    
    Dave,
    
    	Could you explain what you mean here? Are you saying that the
    GP8 cannot control the midiverbII ??
    
    Mark

    re: Jeff
    
    Keep in mind that the EL34 mod on the Marshall requires rebiasing
    which requires an O-scope and some knowledge of electronics.  Best
    bet is to have someone do it for you.  I don't think it's very
    expensive.  I've seen some repair shops offering this for around
    $150 (or less) including the tubes.
    
    re: Jerry
    
    VERY good idea Jeff had about taking your amp down and trying the
    GP-8 through it before buying.  It's a lotta loot, so be careful!
    
    Greg

    re: .24
    
    > Are you saying that the GP-8 can't control the MIDIVERB II
    
    No, just not as flexibly as you'd like.  And I'd prefer to say
    that the MIDIVERB II can't be controlled by most MIDI controllers
    in configuration with other processors.
    
    You can't freely associated MIDIVERB patches with GP-8 patches.
    Pragmatically, you can't have the GP-8 change the patch on the
    MIDIVERB II.
    
    The MIDIVERB II has fixed assignments for MIDI patch numbers.
    This is more of a limitation of the MIDIVERB than the GP-8.
    (Note that the often overlooked ART ProVerb doesn't have this 
    limitation.)
    
    Basically, when you create a GP-8 patch, you'd like to be able to
    "select" an arbitrary MIDIVERB II patch to use with the GP-8 patch.
    
    When you select a sound on the GP-8 your really selecting a MIDI
    patch number.  The GP-8 sends a MIDI message that says "use patch
    number n" where n is the number of the GP-8 patch you've requested.
    
    So clearly, it's not really possible to have the GP-8 patches
    and MIDIVERB patches correspond in any useable way.
    
    Now the "patch mapping" I referred to, is that I'd like either:
    
    	1) The MIDIVERB to allow ME to map MIDI patch numbers to
    	   effects numbers
    
    	2) Extend the GP-8 concept of a "sound" to include one or
    	   more "patch-#/channel-# combinations" that are independent
    	   from the GP-8 MIDI patch #.
    
    So you may ask, How can the GP-8 control the MIDIVERB II?
    
    Well, y'know how most rack-mounted effects processors have plugs
    in the back for footswitches like "BYPASS".   The GP-8 uses that.
    It's like have two virtual footswitches builtin to every GP-8 patch.
    
    So, your control over the MIDIVERB II is limited to those things
    that you can control via a footswitch.
    
    That's enough for me.  I only use the MV-II for reverb.  I think
    most of the non-reverb efx on it are generally crummy (chorus for
    example) or limited (the idea of a DDL with FIXED settings strikes
    me as very limiting) but the reverb is excellent for what I paid
    and its pretty quiet.
    
    	db

    Dave if read what you're saying about the MVII, I don't get it.
    I can assign the patch numbers to the MIDI patches, seems like you're
    limited to 16 or 32 MIDI patches but you can assign which of the
    99 MV presets you want for each midi patch. Given this, why can't
    the GP-8 or MP-1 etc. control the MV for you?
    
    re: the 'overlooked' ART proverb. After A/B'ing a MVII with the proverb
    it's very easy to see why it's overlooked. Even the new one with
    16 bit sounds is a bit of a yawn compared to the MVII. Most of the
    industry mags seem to agree with me in this...(MIX for example).
    
    dbii

>    Dave if read what you're saying about the MVII, I don't get it.
>    I can assign the patch numbers to the MIDI patches, seems like you're
>    limited to 16 or 32 MIDI patches but you can assign which of the
>    99 MV presets you want for each midi patch. Given this, why can't
>    the GP-8 or MP-1 etc. control the MV for you?
    
    OK, I must have misread something in the manual.  I was under the
    impression that the preset numbers were bound to the patch numbers.
    
    The Proverb reverb isn't as good as the MV-II reverb (which isn't
    as good as an SRV-2000 which can be had for only about $50 more
    last I looked), but the "other" effects on the Proverb were
    much better IMO, especially in stereo.

			Whew !!!
    
    Again, I'm flooded with info again.  When I drove home this morning
    I had a copy of the GP-8 presets in the seat and was planning how
    I was going to rearrange them when I got it ... but now ...
    
    I heard the GP-8 through 2 GK amps into 2 2x12 cabs.  It sounded
    unreal, and the salesman showed me some programming goodies too.
    I agree, the distortion sounded "canned" but he had programmed a
    taste of overdrive along with the distortion, and threw in a dash
    of compression and it was Heavy Metalville, sounded unreal.  But
    I know it was a sales pitch, we all know how that goes.  I'd be
    using it with a 100W Marshall MOSFET which is VERY clean on the
    normal channel.  He said that would work better than the GK's. For
    $$$ reasons the ME-5 is appealing but the salesman said it was harder
    to program.  But I figure if I can work this thing in front of me
    now, surely I can figure out how to program a pedal, especially
    with the owners manual.  And I like the headphone output idea as
    well - lugging Marshalls around gets to be a drag.  Can any ME-5
    owners out there tell me if it's THAT hard to program ?
    
    
    				Jerry

    I don't own one, but just playing around in a store, it only took me
    about 10 min without a manual or assistance to figure out how to
    program the ME-5.  I thought it was easier than most of the MIDI
    widgets I've fooled (in the true sense of the word) with. 
    
    I *am* a trained programmer though...         8^)
    
    Greg

    The ME5 is very easy to program. It took me about 10 minutes with
    no manual or assistance.  The GP8 may actually take a little longer 
    to program, only because there are more parameters on the GP8 than 
    the ME5. I wouldn't want to program it hunched over on the floor, 
    but stepping through a program sequence is a sinch. 
    
    My cousin uses a GP8, after having owned everything from Peavey Classics
    to Mesa Boogies, to a GK ML250. He no longer owns a conventional
    amp, just the GP8 and his PA. Besides all the great effects, the
    GP8 has an incredibly pure clean sound. With just a dash of compression
    and delay, it sings like an old 410 Bassman. He doesn't use an FC100
    or EV pedal with his, because his act is centered around a Roland
    D50 synth, Alesis HR16 drum machine, midi-bass, etc, and he has
    his computer control all the midi stuff, including his GP8 patches.
    It's a nice setup, but I would want the pedal board, and especially
    the EV pedal if I bought one. When you think that you might not 
    necessarily need an amp with the GP8 (If you are in a band with
    a PA you can plug into, or doing recording, etc), the $1100.oo
    pricetag is a little easier to swallow.
    
    Let's see at $10.00/week, I might be able to get one in about 2
    years. By that time, there will be something bigger/better no
    doubt.
    
    Mark
    
                            
    

    By the way, the last time I was in Wurlitzer (Worcester) Eddy
    said he was going to set up the long-awaited demo we requested.
    This would be a great chance to see all the latest efx in action,
    and cash in on group discounts. 
    
    I will post a new note as soon as I can pin him down for a date.
    
    Mark

    re: .32
    
    > When you think that you might not necessarily need an amp with the 
    > GP8 the $1100.oo pricetag is a little easier to swallow.
    
    Most recording boards (particularly those on 4-tracks) have a trim
    that will allow you to use the instrument outs on the ME-5.
    
    If you want to plug directly into the PA from the ME-5, a $40 direct
    box will save you most of that $1100.  You'd need one even
    with the GP-8 anyway because the GP-8 line outs are phone plugs, not
    balanced XLR-type sends.
    
    re: .-n
    
    > The salesman said The ME-5 is harder to program.
    
    Don't trust this guy.
    
    It is not harder to program than the GP-8.  It's probably easier.
    I figured out the ME-5 without a manual.  Most of what you need to
    know is either fairly intuitive, or printed right there on the face 
    of the unit.
    
    I could not have learned the GP-8 without the manual and Roland
    documentation is widely known to be pathetic (ask anyone in Commusic).
    
    So compared to the GP-8, I'd say it's definitely EASIER.
    
    Now, as to how hard it is on an absolutely scale, it's hard to say.
    
    A friend of mine got one and really couldn't figure it out too well.
    But while she's a great musician, she's definitely not very technical
    and the ME-5 was the first thing she ever had that required
    "programming".   I'm a software engineer (so I'm more technically
    inclined) and I was able to figure out how to make the adjustments 
    she wanted within minutes without a manual.
    
    So I would say that if your already familiar with these types of
    equipment, it's as easy to program as anything.  If not, it'll be
    hard at first, but you probably won't find anything easier.
    
    I'd say that if anyone is struggling over the decision as to whether
    to get the GP-8 instead of the ME-5 or if money is tight, I'd say get 
    the ME-5.  The GP-8 is basically a little more flexibility especially when
    integrated into more complicated rigs, a little bit more flexibility
    with sound (more efx, more simultaneous efx), and the rack-mountability
    (which may be a MINUS for most of us).
    
    On the other hand, if you're sorta the uncompromising type.... get
    the GP-8.  ;-)
    
    	db

    Another point to make...
    
    Keep your eyes open for some real bargains in DSP 128's !
    
    DigiTECH released the 128+ (with full 20K band width and 4 fx at
    once instead of 3).  I figure there will be lots of GOOD DEALS!
    
    jc (always_the_128_freak!)

    I demo-ed the ME-5 today and wasn't impressed in the least ... but
    in all fairness it had 2 strikes against it to begin with.  #1 -
    I was in a big hurry and just sat down, stomped on some pedals and
    left, #2 - it was hooked up to a Fender Champ.  When was the last
    time you heard a Fender Champ scream ?  Me either ... I'll give
    it a better try in the morning.
    
    I guess the main issue between all of the multi-effects that have
    been mentioned is programability.   The GP-8 already has a herd
    of presets that I like whereas the ME-5 would undergo major memory
    surgery.   I have a copy of the factory presets for both units in
    front of me and both have 2 banks containing the same presets, just
    in different order.  I don't really need reverb *that* much, I have
    a Marshall - give me a large hall, I'll make my own reverb !  8^)
    Besides, I can use a a DSP-128 along with the GP-8 since both are
    MIDI, right ?  The way I'm leaning now is to get the GP-8 pretty
    soon and later get a reverb unit alone and a good stereo EQ.  There
    are countless options I know, but this seems like a fairly good
    combination of effects to me.  Most of the music I play is metal
    but I sit and jam with the radio and TV commercials too so I need
    a good range also.  Don't get me wrong, I still don't know which
    path will lead me to effect bliss .... 8^)
    
    
    				Jerry

    re; Fender champ they do scream, they're just not very loud.
                                                  
    
    dbii

    The new issue of the Roland Users Group magazine announces the BE-5,
    a non-programmable, multi-effects stomp box that looks like an ME-5.
    It has Chorus, Noise Gate, DDL, Overdrive/Distortion and compressor
    (in that order), and four pedals to activate each of the effects.
    
    Depending on the price, this may be a good alternative to buying
    a bunch of small boxes and wiring them together.
    
    Danny W.

    I've heard rumblings of a new rack unit from Roland that is supposed
    to be a bit less costly (and functional) than the GP-8.
    
    Coop (who needs a midi-controller to be happy!)

    The ultimate set up:
    
    � Electro-Harmonics Muff Fuzz
    � Mutron Echoplex

    

    RE: .38
    
    The BE-5 is available in the UK now. It's retailing at �199. The
    ME-5 currently retails at �499 (so you can compare to US prices).
    
    FWIW.
    
    Nick

    I recently noticed that Korg has a new "performance effects processor"
    on the market. I think they call it an A2 or A3. It is set up similar
    to a GP8 (rack-mountable, with optional floor controller), but also
    has an aural exciter. It also has 6 pots mounted on the front panel
    which allow you to tweak parameters quickly, without having to
    go through an entire patch sequence.
    
    Looks pretty cools. Anyone seen or heard this unit yet ??
    
    Price ??
    
    Mark 
    

    I went and took another look at the Boss ME-5 this afternoon and made
    a few adjustments here and there.  It's a nice unit, but before
    I'd pay $650 for that I'd just save my allowance and get the GP-8
    or something comparable.  
    
    I recently picked up a "Guitar" magazine and they are having a givaway
    deal ... it shows George Lynch sitting on a loaded FX rack holding
    an ESP guitar.  There's a multi-effects unit in the rack too but
    I can't even remember the name of it.  I'm going to check that unit
    out too before I make up my mind.  I'm itching to get something
    though, I'm heading out tomorrow to grab a $1200 loan, and I'd hate
    to spend it on something only to find something a LOT better the
    next day, ya know ?
                                             
    
    
    				Jerry

    OK, I'm getting the GP-8 Tuesday, with both pedals.  I played it
    for almost 2 hours in the store Saturday through a rig exactly like
    mine so I know how it will sound.  The salesman said Roland was
    going to introduce a new unit soon like the GP-8 only with digital
    reverb, and he said he *thought* it was going to be cheaper than
    the GP-8 to boot !  Thanx for all the suggestions that were entered
    in this note.
    
    
    
    				Scary  

    How much is this rig gonna run ya?
    
    Union Music wants $600+ for the GP-8....
    
    Edd (looking for something to plug his new axe into)

    Speaking for Jerry, I think he's hooking up with the GP-8 for 
    $1050, including the FC100 and the whachamacallit pedel that goes
    with it.  The $1050 includes the states cut in taxes.
    
    ;^)

    Yeah, that's the ticket !  At 9 am I'll have my nose pressed against
    the glass on the front door at Parker Music waiting on them to open.
    It's gonna run $1050 + tax (after much negotiation).  I gotta buy
    a rack now though ...
    
    
    				Scary