Conference napalm::guitar

    In this case, common sense is incorrect.  Turn the adjustment nut
    COUNTER-clockwise to raise the action.  Think of it like this; the
    truss rod is used to counteract the tension of the strings pulling.
    Tightening the adjustment (clockwise) increases rod tension and
    brings the strings closer; loosening the adjustment (counter-clockwise)
    decreases rod tension and lets the strings pull further away.

    /rick

    I make it a rule never to turn a truss rod adjustment more than
    1/4 turn without letting the neck sit for a day or so.  It's a good
    rule to follow.
    
    /rick

    
    Thanks rick
    
    I always forget which way to turn a screwdriver too!
    
    Dave

	There are guidelines for correct truss rod adjustment.  I forget
	the actual recommended measurements, but the technique that I know
	is as follows:

		1. Capo the strings at the 1st fret.

		2. Depress each string at the fret where the neck
			joins the body.

		3. Use a feeler guage to measure the distance between
			the top of the fret and the string at the point
			half way between the 1st and body fret.

	Does anyone else that knows this technique remember what the
	recommended distance is?

	/Steve

    But once you've measured the distance whaddya do with the measurement?
    
    The nominal rule of thumb (for electrics) is that you should be
    able to see a little space between the string and the 12th fret
    when the string is fretted at the highest and lowest frets, the
    idea being that the string is a straight line between the highest
    fret and the lowest fret.
    
    My Carvin is very touchy and I have to adjust the truss  rod
    several times a year and using this "sighting" method is the
    easiest.  I don't even use a capo.
    
    I would guess that, if different at all, the distance between
    the string and the 12th fret might be a little higher for an
    acoustic, but I'm not sure.  Generally speaking the ability
    to get the string as close to the 12th fret as possible without
    having the string touch other frets is the "measure" of how low
    a guitars action can be set, and guitar makers usually quote
    higher "lowest action" figures for acoustics.
    
    	db

    
    
    RE> .5
    
    	I agree with db.. I've been using that method on both
    my electric and acoustic.... 
    I also agree that all gits are different and the gap size
    will vary according to the instrument...It usually takes
    me about 8 days to fine tune the "gap" for the particular
    instrument for optimum action and min. buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
    
    EARL (_}===#  :)
    
    

    I do this to many guitars each year.
    
    Simple test--depress the 6th string at the first fret with your
    left pinky, and at the body fret with your right pinky. Use either
    thumb to depress the string at the middle of the neck. It should
    give slightly (I use about .005"). Repeat for the first string)
    
    If adjustment is necessary, I use a #0 philips (either a true philips,
    or I grind the tip slightly) to remove the truss rod cover and a
    Sears deep thinwall socket (5/16" OR 1/4". depending on the guitar)
    and a 1/4" drive ratchet. NEVER use those cheap adjusting wrenches
    found in music stores. Stuart-MacDonald carries a nice long wrench
    if you're afraid of using a ratchet.
    
    If the relief is very high, I sometimes apply pressure to the back
    of the neck with my knee while pressing at the first and 12th frets.
    I suspect I'm less timid than most in making large adjustments.
    Despite this, for all the hundreds of guitars I've adjusted, I've
    only injured one--the adjusting nut snapped off the rod. Sounds
    grim, but it was easy to rethread the rod.
    
    The reason this happened, BTW, is that the adjusting nut was at the end of
    its range. If this the case, remove the adjusting nut, install a
    shim washer and you're back in business.
    
    I set the action of all my electrics to 3/64" at the 12th and my
    acoustics to 4/64". With this low action, truss rod adjustment is
    critical, but it rarely takes me more than a few minutes to do .
    
    And, I think that any guitar that need adjustment more than twice a year
    (going into summer & winter) or that takes eight days to settle
    down after adjusting has serious structural or design problems.
    
    Danny W

    re .5 . . once measured, what to do with the distance . . .
    
    	ans:  adjust truss rod to increase or decrease to desired distance.
    
    	/steve

    A comment I made a few replies back has generated a flurry of mail
    on whether I really have a 3/64" action on my guitars and how do
    I do it? Rather than send mail, I thought I'd post the answer.
    
    Actually, it's more like .050", (but why quibble?) and yes, that's
    bass & treble, measured from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom
    of the string. I have my solids, semi's and some archtops set up
    like this.  Most of my archtops are at .065" and my lone flattop
    is at .075".
    
    How? First, proper truss rod adjustment and good fret leveling.
    Next, heavy (at least, to most players) strings--.012" to .052",
    wound third on all the archtops, .010" LTHB on the solids and semi's.
    Next, set-in maple necks with ebony boards. On guitars with adjustable
    tension (e.g. stop tailpiece) I keep the tension high. I play with
    a light touch--many players will think my guitars rattle too much.
    On the electrics, I don't worry about acoustic rattle that doesn't
    get through the pickups.
    
    Yes, I do a lot of bends.  One of the biggest difficulties in getting
    a low action w/bending is that the curve of the bridge rarely matches that
    of the neck, so when the E's are low, the D&G rattle. I use guitars
    with relatively flat necks. Since most of my archtops have wooden
    bridges, it is easy to match the bridge to the neck. I file the
    saddles on TOM bridges when necessary. I also file the nuts, which
    are invariably too high from the factory, so that when the string
    is depressed at the third fret, it kisses the first fret. 
    
    On archtops, it is almost impossible to have this low an action
    without some problems around the 15th fret--usually there are some
    dead or even wrong notes on the middle strings. Sometimes I'll file
    the frets progressively lower between the 14th and last fret. Usually,
    I'll ignore it, since these notes also are playable on the higher
    strings at lower positions.
    
    If you can't get this kind of action, there are a few things to
    consider.  If your guitar has a bolted-in neck or a 10" radius (like,
    say a Strat), forget it. Same with a variable radius. Same with
    very low frets, mostly cause your finger hits the board before you've
    put enough pressure on the string to stop rattling.  Same with vibrato
    tailpieces if the string height changes when you use it. If you
    have individually adjustable string heights, make them match the
    curve of the neck as much as possible. If the relief is different
    on the bass and treble sides, the neck may have a twist. Also, make
    sure you're really hearing string rattle, and not  hardware, or
    a loose fret, strut, or brace. On some guitars, the strings rattle
    between the bridge & tailpiece, which can usually be cured with
    felt or foam.
    
    I keep my left hand properly arched and place my fingers directly
    behind the frets when I play, and I use a heavy pick held at a right
    angle to the string, with just the tip of the pick showing. This
    keeps me from pulling the string away from the neck.  On electrics,
    I use the amp to get volume. On acoustics, I use a little more neck
    relief and phosphor-bronze strings to allow me to play harder and
    louder.
    
    The downside to playing with low action is that you never build
    up enough grip strength to play guitars with high action, which
    means you can't play your friend's guitar, or the ones in the store
    :-). On the other hand, I can bend a .024" wound 3rd string up a
    full tone, and a .017" plain one off the neck, so I guess it evens
    out.
    
    I think this answers all the questions I got. If I missed yours,
    fire away.
    
    Danny W.

    
    
    	Danny, I ran out of adjustment on the truss rod of an acoustic
    I own.  A few notes back you suggested removing the truss rod? 
    And installing a shim?  Sorry to be dense, could you be more specific?
    
    	Where exactly would the shim go??
    
    
    Truss rod
                                |-|
    ////////////////////////////| |
                                |-|
    
                               /\
                               ||
    
    				Shim here??
                                 
    
    	I'll admit that I really don't understand completely how truss
    rods work, except that when I crank it in, my neck straightens out
    and the strings seem lower, and if I loosen it the neck looks more
    bowed and the strings seem further away from the fret board.
    
    	BTW, I adjusted (trial ad error shimming) a fender electric
    guitar of mine and I'm really pleased with the action, but I'm not
    sure I could repeat the process with any accuracy... what do yu
    use to take measurements???
    
    
    
    Steve

    Steve:
    
    On truss rods that are adjusted from the headstock, there is a threaded
    section, a hex nut and (usually) a thrust plate. If the rod has
    to be tightened, it is possible to run out of threads. If this is
    your problem, loosen (counterclockwise) and remove the hex nut,
    and place a (preferably brass) shim washer over the rod. This must
    be small enough to fit inside the truss-rod cavity, so it rests
    against the thrust plate. Then, reinstall the hex nut and tighten.
    
    If the nut is really hard to tighten after doing this, you may be
    in danger of snapping the rod, so be careful. Try loosening the
    strings. If the rod breaks anywhere but at the end, for most brands
    of guitars it will mean removing the fingerboard. If the neck is
    a bolt-on, probably will be cheaper to replace it .Many Ricks have rods
    that are removeable from the headstock.
   
     If you run out of range the other way (i.e. completely loose hex
    nut), too bad. Your neck may have a reverse bow, or you may need
    heavier strings, or it may cure itself when the weather changes.
    
    I set up guitars by feel, but when I do measure, I use a 6" machinist's
    rule with the sharp corners rounded off.( I just used one to check
    the ES-355 I keep in my office--.035" on both E strings, and it
    plays great!). Other useful tools are a 12" machinist's rule to
    check fret level and neck straightness, a fine,double-cut, smooth edged
    file for quickly leveling a high fret,&  two different grades of
    ScotchBrite for fast polishing. For serious leveling, I use an Arkansas
    stone.
    
     Lately, if a guitar needs serious fret leveling, I just raise the
     action to 5/64' and  sell it--I'm getting too old to spend my time
     filing frets, and the buyer is always amazed by how low the action
    is;-). 
    
    Danny W.

    Re. .11
    
    > If you run out of range the other way (i.e. completely loose hex
    > nut), too bad. Your neck may have a reverse bow, or you may need
    > heavier strings, or it may cure itself when the weather changes.
    

    This is the case on my Fender Telecaster. The truss rod adjusts
    from the base of the neck. I have backed it off to the point where
    it is finger tight. The action is pretty much where I want it right
    now. Perhaps heavier gauge strings would work better on this guitar.
    I generally use sets with .009" E stings. Perhaps a .010" or .011
    would put enough pressure on the neck to allow for a finer neck 
    adjustment.
    
    I have considered setting it up for playing slide with non-standard
    tunings. Heavier strings and higher action would work best for slide 
    anyway.
    
    Mark 
    

    Re: .12
    
    As long as there is some neck relief, you're okay, even if the rod
    is completely loose. .009 or .008 strings will usually need minimum
    tension.
    
    On rods with a thrust plate or washer, there is one more thing to
    check. Sometimes the plate will get wedged between the threads and
    the neck, keeping tension on the rod. Remove the hex nut, loosen
    the strings and use a small screwdriver to free the plate. I've
    seen a few guitars that appeared to have a reverse bow cured by
    this trick.
    
    Danny W

    Dan,
    
    There is a discussion going on in another note around adjustments.
    I mentioned I make adjsutments to stop fret buzzes in climate changes 
    but thats a minor adjustment at best. 
    My guit is a Guild G37-bld flat top, maple body,
    neck and spruce top. I experimented with a phospher bronze medium
    guage string set about a year ago and really liked the sound and
    sustain I got. Very rich although it made me feel a little uneasy
    in that there is considerably more tension required to get these
    to tune to 440. So I tune it down, right, except when I'm at a jam
    and everyone is tuned up to 440. 

    Is there any danger to keeping medium guage strings on a guitar
    like this? I didn't see any pulling of the bridge from the top,
    it wasn't that bad, but I'm concerned about the damage in the long
    run. Any thoughts?
    
    Dave.

    With few exceptions, falt-top guitars will tolerate medium guage
    strings.  Most bluegrass players use them.  Some even use heavy
    guage - starting with .014 - but most modern guitars won't tolerate
    heavies.  
    
    Guitars custom-made for fingerpicking might not handle medium guage,
    but they usually have a warning on the label.
    
    I'd be more concerned about changing the tension back and forth.
    
    Bob (not Dan)

    Make that "flat-top".

    
    
    Guitars really come with a label warning against medium gauge strings?
    I can maybe see it with a 12 string, but it seems to me that all
    6-string guitars should be able to handle that much tension without a
    problem.
    
    It wasn't that long ago that medium and heavy gauge strings were the
    rule, not the exceptiion. My Gibson L-4C archtop didn't have much of a
    sound with light strings.  It was easier to play with lights, but it
    projected MUCH better with medium strings.
    
    Kevin
    

    Production guitars should do just fine with medium gauge strings,
    but I have seen custom guitars for fingerpicking that were braced
    so lightly that the luthier warned against using anything heavier
    than standard lights.  
    
    Pre-WWII guitars were almost(?) always strung with medium or heavy.  
    I'm not sure that lights even existed then.  As a teenager and,
    ahem, young man, I remember seeing a lot of guitars with heavy gauge
    strings, but over the past twenty years, I remember only two.

    Archtops (A.K.A. industrial-grade guitars) are another story.  I've
    seen strings starting at .016 on archtops.  That's two steps above
    heavy!  
    
    I remember seeing in some manufacturer's literature (Martin?) a
    warning against heavy-gauge strings.  There was also a warning in
    Frets a couple of years ago.  Some flat-tops just won't take it.
    
    Bob
    
    

    Usually, only guitars with scalloped bracing might have a problem
    with medium gauge strings. Remember that not all mediums have the
    same tension--Frets was lobbying once for tension specs on strings.
    
    re: Archtops--the tailpiece holds the string tension, not the top,
    so you can use any gauge you like, but heavier ones work better.
    
    Danny W.

Danny, your reply in .9 has inspired me to modify my '62 Strat copy (Takami, or
something like that) for the lowest possible action.  However, from your
statement

>     If you can't get this kind of action, there are a few things to
>     consider.  If your guitar has a bolted-in neck or a 10" radius (like,
>     say a Strat), forget it......

it is not clear what the limitations are for adjusting Stratocasters.

Could you expand on how to achieve the best possible action on a Strat?

re: 10" radius

I dunno, I recently had my strat gone over by a good luthier and I had to raise 
the action when I got it back....

dbii

    Setting up Strats can be a real pain, since there are so many variables
    to deal with. My earlier reply had referred to small radius necks as
    being a particular problem, especially for string bending. Many Strat
    type guitars have flatter necks which make achieving low action easier.
    Still, the bolt-on neck and the tremolo make even these models much
    more difficult to set up than an LP.
    
    I don't feel qualified to tell you how to set up your (Tokai?). My own
    experience has been with American made Fenders, and I've only owned a
    few of those.  None of them ever set up as nicely as a Gibson, though a
    Walnut Elite Strat with a 12" radius ebony fingerboard came pretty
    close. Anyway, that's one of the reasons I don't play Strat types these
    days.
    
    Danny W.
    

    After reading all these notes...
    I'm confused about all this. The action on my L-4CES is high, and upon
    inspecting the neck, it is curved upward. That,  is there is "valley" 
    starting around fret 5. After loosening the truss rod hex-nut, the
    action was low around the high frets, low around the low frets, but still
    high on the middle frets. Did I turn it the wrong way?? I'm getting 
    worried about this guitar. 
    
    Phil
    

    

    I would take it to see a reputable repairperson (:->) and not take the
    cahnace of trashing a good instrument or goofing up your playing by
    working with something way out of whack.  The two guys I've worked with
    in the NY area are willing to show you what they're doing (or have
    done) so you can do it yourself next time.
    
    - Evan

    Phil, sounds like you need to tighten the truss rod, not loosen it.
    Turn it clockwise.
    
    The " problem " you have described seems to be self-induced.
    
    Danny W.

    
    A local repair guy told me that I should loosen it, so I did. Well, 
    hopefully I'm getting less ignorant with this stuff. Thanks. 
    
    Phil

    
    Well I have read all these notes and I am still confused as to which
    way to turn the truss rod to adjust the neck in the way I want it....
    
    If you hold the guitar (headstock pointing away from you) and sight
    along the low E string the neck bows away from the string (slightly)
    in the centre.....sort of like this (please excuse the piccy I ain't
    very good at this sort of thing.)
    
    ------------------------------ E string viewed from side on.
    ======                  ====== Neck (only it is much less pronounced
          \================/             than this but I hope you get the
                                         idea)
    
    So to adjust the truss rod do I have to tighten it or loosen it???
    I would say I had to tighten it to counteract the strings tension
    because it looks like they are pulling on the neck and causing it to
    bow??????
    
    J.

    Tighten it by turning it clockwise.

    
    
    Cheers......should I loosen the strings a tad?? (semi-tone?)
    
    J

    There's no need to loosen the strings to adjust the truss rod.  You can
    take a little pressure off it by pressing back on the neck as you turn
    the nut if you wish.
    
    You do realize that there is supposed to be some "bow" to the neck for
    proper action, right?  If you set it up perfectly flat it's going to
    buzz everywhere!  The amount of bow (technically called relief) varies
    according to the gauge of the strings you're using and your playing
    style.  There are tons of notes in here that describe how to properly
    do a truss rod adjustment, so I won't repeat all the instructions here.
    
    Greg

    
    
    Ummmm, well maybe a little history on why I think it needs adjusting,
    I bust a string a while back (how come I always break them in the same
    place, and always when doing 3 stage ala Gilmour bends) anyway I
    stripped my guitar to the bare bones and shielded everything up, I also
    removed the neck, I am absolutely positive then when I put the neck
    back on that it is seated properly etc,etc honest!! I was dead careful
    about doing that. After it was all back together I have a little buzz
    on the E and A strings from the 2nd to about the 7th fret, I can get
    rid of it by raising the bridge but I am sure that I had the action 
    lower than it is now and that it didn't buzz.
    
    	After checking the neck again last night it appears that the neck
    is almost perfectly flat, although when I put the guitar back together
    it *was* bowed as I previously explained. I realise that I am not going
    to get the action as low as I would like coz the beast has a whammy
    but I would like to get it a little lower without the buzz.
    
    	You mentioned that the neck is supposed to be bowed maybe I should
    loosen the truss rod just a tad to increase the bow a fraction? 
    
    	I guess that you are probably going to suggest taking the thing to
    someone who knows what they are doing but I don't want to, I want to
    learn (and I guess I will make mistakes) to do it myself, I recently
    adjusted the action on my friends bass (and I had to re-do the
    intonation) and the guy says it now plays like a dream so how difficult
    can it be?
    
    	In the end if I totally cock the thing up (which I doubt I will do 
    coz where you guys say a 1/4 of a turn I will use an 1/8 and watch and
    see what happens over a couple of days) then I will have to buy a new
    one......which I want to do anyway.....I am fed up with the whammy
    because unison bends sound like crap when you bend one string all the
    rest of the buggers go out of tune as the bridge moves!!!
    
    J.

    	Yeah. you want to loosen it just a tad. No more than 1/2 turn and
    give it a whirl, then let it settle for a couple of days and check it
    again. NOTE if you had it all apart without loosening the truss rod it
    may come back on its own, you see your supposed to loosen that sucker
    if you're gonna take all the tension (strings) off the neck, if you
    don't, you can permenantly damage the neck! (crack, split, split) if
    you're using heavy strings (high tesion=tight truss rod) Some people
    may say that they take all the strings of at same time when they're
    changing them with no ill affect, but the longer they're off, the worse
    for the neck.
    	In future if you're going to do this again, loosen the strings a
    bit, then the truss, then the strings a bit, then the truss a bit, etc,
    until both are loose. After reassembly do the reverse. Be careful not
    to overtighten the truss.

    	Oh BTW basses are a lot easier to do. With guitars you're dealing 
    with lower tensions therefore the wood has more affect, and more
    settling in for the adjustment. If you are going to take it apart
    you're going to have to do the full set up.
    

    Just an opinion - while I can understand the theory behind the previous
    reply's suggestion to loosen the truss rod when string tension is
    completely off, in practice I don't think this is such a good idea.
    The advice I've been given by repair professionals re truss rod adjustment
    is "do it as little as possible".  The truss rod mechanism is delicate,
    and overuse of it is probably the biggest single source of ruined
    guitar necks.  If the neck were going to be removed and left off the
    guitar for an extended period of time (like months), then yes.  But for
    short intervals for mods, etc, I'd say don't do it.  From my own
    experience, I've had the neck completely off many guitars and basses,
    including a pre-CBS Strat several times, without ever touching the truss
    rod adjustment and noticed no ill effects.  As I said, JMO.
    
    /rick

	All of this is a lot easier said than done when you gotta pull
	off yer neck to get at the rod adjustment.

	The current edition of the strat owners manual suggests that
	you capo the first fret, fret at the fret where the neck joins
	the body and measure the distance between the top of the 8th
	fret and the low E string with a feeler guage. It should measure
	.010 inches. You may need to adjust and restring several times
	over several days to get it just right but it's really nice
	once you do.

	So what kind of tremelo do you have? It this a strat where you
	can peg it to "dive-only" mode? I can't handle playing a floating
	tremelo where bending requires 2 semesters of diffEQ so I tighten
	up the claw.

    It's difficult to say how much to turn your truss rod to achieve the
    desired effect because every guitar is different.  The thickness of the
    wood varies in virtually all guitars and the density of the neck (and
    fretboard) materials is also a variable.  Do small increments...

    I have to say that I also disagree with the theory about messing with
    the truss rod whenever you change the strings or take them off.  I have
    *never* changed the truss rod setting on any of the dozens of guitars
    I've restrung and/or worked on over the last 10 years and have never
    experienced a problem at all.  

    I don't think that wood is that unstable to be damaged by this.  Many
    musicians think that guitars are extremely fragile, but I find myself
    being consistently amazed at how sturdy they actually are.

    It would seem to me that if you're that paranoid about the changes in
    tension, it would just be easiest to change only one string at a time
    while leaving the others on the guitar at normal pitch.  This would
    minimize any changes in tension.  I have heard of people that
    recommended this (but don't personally think it's necessary).

    Greg

    
    
    I can't wind the whammy down :-(, It's not a Strat I own (yet!! that is
    my next purchase) its one of those pointy Charvel things with a
    Schaller floating trem, everytime I bend one string the rest move as
    well!!!!
    
    J

    RE: .36
    
    Never adjusted the truss at string change time ?  Well... You've
    never owned an RG5%0 before.   ;)  ;)  ;)
    
    RE: .37
    
    It's nature of the beast.  All floating (real) trems do dat.
    
    jc

    	RE: Last several
    
    	You screw around with a bass neck without strings and you screw it
    up for sure if you don't loosen of the truss rosd first!!!. Yer guitars
    are a different story, and what I meant was if your taking off the
    strings for any extended length of time. ie refinishing the body,
    routing it to fit a Floyd etc. It's not a good idea to take all the
    string tension of the neck too often (like for changing strings)
    unfortunately you have to take of the neck on Fenders to adjust the
    truss rod. Nature of the Beast. But like what was said before the less
    you play with it the better. With some necks though you'll end up
    playing with it every string change, these would have to be thin or
    soft necks where the wood doesn't figure into the string tension as
    much. Myself I do mostly basses and a few guitars.

    And yet another question...
    
    I've heard reference to the concept of putting an extra washer on a
    truss rod that doesn't take all the bow out. Anybody understand this?
    Can you explain?
    
    I assume that you remove the rod by un tightening it completely, add
    the washer and re-tighten.
    
    Any gotchas in that process?
    
    thanks
    
    dbii

    
    
    Dave, the theory is that the wood that the adjustment nut presses
    on to apply the tension can become compressed, so you can't get
    the adjustment tight enough to put enough bow in the neck.
    
    Putting a washer or two gives back the range of adjustment that
    was lost when the wood got compressed.
    
    FWIW, I read this in Bass player magazine.

    Somewhere in the first dozen replies there is a brilliant explanation
    of the use of washers ;-)
    
    Danny W.

    I left my Charvel Acoustic/elec out on it's stand for several weeks lately
    and I just picked it up to play yesterday and WOW, the action is 'wicked'
    higher than it was a when I got it.  I guess I shouldn't have left it
    out with the windows open so near.  The truss adjuster is located
    inside the body and is accessible thru the sound hole at the 'body' end
    of the neck.  It is an allen head bolt and the allen wrench came with
    the axe.  I went to do the adjsutment (clockwise turn per this note)
    and I can't turn the allen wrench without removing the middle 2
    strings, or at least without really stretching them.  Can I
    effectively/properly adjust the neck without the string tension on it?
    
    Seems like this would be a frustrating trial and error method...turn
    rod nut, restring, turn rod nut, restring....
    
    ?
    
    Steve

    re .-1
    
    does it have a bolt-on neck? If so, the problem may more likely
    lie there than in the neck adjustment. They don't usually change
    THAT much if the neck bows a little.
    
    - Dave

    Steve,
    
    It's kind of a trial-and-error thing on most guitars 'cause it takes a
    little while for the neck to settle in to it's new tension.
    
    Greg

    RE: -1
    
    Dave,
    
    no it's a glued on neck.......I think.
    
    Steve (embarrassed that he's not sure.....I don't think I've ever seen
    an acoustic with a bolt on neck....)

Yo Steve,
	
RE: Can I effectively/properly adjust the neck without the string tension on it?

I always thought that's how you *should* do it! Loosen the string tension first
then give the truss rod a 1/4 turn (clockwise to flatten out the neck) at a time.
After your 1/4 turn, retune the string up to pitch and check it again tomorrow.
Small adjustments are better than big ones with neck adjustments IMO.

Rock on,
	Fred

    RE: -1
    
    Yeah, thanks Fred.  I talked with Greg House the other day and I think
    I got the picture OK.  I'm gonna give it a try tonight or this weekend. 
    I'll post results.
    
    Thanks for all the input.
    
    PS Fred,  I like yer P-name!
    
    daaaaaawg

	I have a brand-spanking-new US standard Tele that I've left at the shop
	for the tech to check out. The neck appears to be misaligned such
	that the bottom E runs very close to the edge of the neck (around a mil 
	or so away from the fret edge) and the top E has a corresponding gap
	between it and the edge of the neck. Needless to say, the centre 
	dot markers on the neck are completely off-centre wrt the D and G 
	strings.

	You reckon they can fix it or is it a back-to-CBS job?

	Richard.
	

    Richard,

    Although there's a little side to side play that makes it possible to
    align the neck a slight amount, it sounds like your neck is outside the
    bounds of this adjustment. Note, though, that I'm speaking from
    experience with older 4-bolt Fenders. It's hard to say where they made
    the error, it could be the bolt pattern in the body but more than likely
    it's in the bolt pattern in the neck. I'd push 'em for a new guitar.

    --Ron
	

	This one has the 4-bolt plus allen key hole plate, but it looks to
	me that if you moved the neck enough to fix the alignment, it would
	leave a big gap between neck and body at the top of the joint.

	It's a bit disapointing really -- they had one other std tele
	in the shop, and that had the bridge plate bolted on skew (definitely
	no adjustment there!). 

	Thanks

	Richard.

When I bought my Strat last year, I didn't notice a similar misalignment...

    "The neck appears to be misaligned such that the bottom E runs very
    close to the edge of the neck (around a mil or so away from the fret
    edge) and the top E has a corresponding gap between it and the edge of
    the neck.

...but when I finally did, I decided to try to fix this myself.  So I unbolted
the neck, wriggled it so it was loose, centered the strings to where I thought
they should be, and then retightened the bolts.  The neck went back to being
off-center as I retightened!!!

I guess the way the holes were drilled, and perhaps how the neck/wood took the
screws initially at the factory, there was a natural tendency for it to come
to rest in this position.  When I brought the guitar back to the store, they
told me that they could fix it, but recommended that I first try to stick some
wood into the holes and rescrew the neck.  The added wood would help the
screws bite into to wood better and hold it more tightly on-center.

I decided that I'd do this as ONLY A LAST RESORT and only if the screws were
no longer holding on their own (which they were).  So, instead, I removed the
neck and inserted a shim (I used black paper because the guitar is black) and
retightened.  It eventually came out perfect!!!  There is a small bit of space
between the neck and body, but it's not objectionable at all and you really
have to look close to notice it.

The only real fear I had was in possibly overtightening the screws as I made
the adjustments.  (I had to do this several times, changing the size/position
of the shim each time until I got it right.)

Dick

    I've heard about using a small square of metal window screen in the neck
    cavity to prevent any side to side movement after the bolts have been
    retightened. Like this:

            x                x

                 ++++++++
                 ++++++++
                 ++++++++
                 ++++++++
                 ++++++++

            x                x

    I've never had this problem but apparently some folks have.

    --Ron
    

    
    Don't pay any attention to the location of the dots. If I recall
    correctly from my Fender book some early Fenders (strats) did actually
    have offset dots. Jap Fender reissues have been known to be more
    accurate than US Fender reissues because they actually had the offset
    dots whereas the US made ones had centralised the dots on their
    reissues!
    
    Richard

    RE: .54

    Not so. I've just consulted my copy of The Fender Stratocaster, New
    Edition by A.R. Duchossoir and in the section under Part III The
    Stratocaster In Detail, The Neck, Position Markers, the only variation
    mentioned is the spacing between the two dots located at the 12th fret.
    Japanese vintage reissues reproduce the actual wide spacing Fender used
    in the 50s-early 60s, whereas U.S vintage reissues use the narrower
    spacing that fender changed to in '63 when they did away with the "slab"
    of rosewood.

    The material is the only other variation concerning the fret markers.

    --Ron

	Well I don't know how he did it, but the guitar is now perfect, with
	no apparent damage. The plate doesn't seem to be offline, the
	bolts don't look like they're entering the body at an angle,
	the neck appears central in the body (equal small gap on either
	'shoulder') and it still plays beautifully (no deadspots -- unusually
	good). Maybe I was overestimating the amount of movement in the
	nack that would be enough to shift the strings across...

	I wonder if it'll stand the bit where I set fire to it and bounce it
	off the bass cab?

	By the way, CBS/Arbiter said they'd happily replace it if I wasn't
	satisfied. Since it plays well, I think I'll stick with it.

	THanks		--Richard.