Conference napalm::guitar

    	It's gonna be tough to find a multi effects unit with ALL of
    the things you listed, especially harmonizing. I haven't seen
    gated reverb in any of the guitar effects units, but all the
    digital reverbs generally have it. 
    
    	The REX50 is pretty good for $500, if you like the table-top
    packaging. Most guitarists would prefer rack-mount or stomp-box
    effects. Yamaha has some new units out that are pretty nice in 
    rack-mount versions. They have a rack-mount processor that is
    basically the same as the REX50 for about $799.
    	
    	Rocktron makes lots of exciters, compressors, distortion units,
    noise gates, but I doubt they make multi-effect units. If they
    do, I haven't seen them. I can imagine they would be out of your 
    price range, since their compressors and exciters alone run around 
    $350 or more. 
    
       Lexitron ??? Are you sure you don't mean Lexicon ?? Lexicon makes
    the prime-time digital delays. They are top-of-the-line processors.
    Big Bucks. If they make a multi-effects processor like you described,
    you can bet it's $2-3k.
                           
    	Boss is owned by Roland. They offer the Roland GP8 (~1199.oo
    complete with FC100 foot controller and EV5 expression pedal).
    Great unit, but it can't harmonize, and doesn't contain digital
    reverb.  You can set the chorus to sound similar to a harmonizer, 
    but not quite. Roland also offers the Boss ME5. This is a great 
    unit you should check out, but it is a little over the $500 range 
    (selling prices vary from about $599 to $699). This won't harmonize 
    either but it does have digital reverb. Dave Blickstein and Tom
    Desrochers both have these units. I came very close to buying
    one, and am still considering it. Look back about 50 or so notes
    for a one  specifically covering the GP8 and ME5. We covered all
    the features, disadvantages, advantages of these in that note. 
    
    	If you can do without Distortion/overdrive/compression, ART
    and Alesis both make rack-mount digital reverbs which contain
    halls, rooms, gated reverbs, reverse reverbs, delay, flange,
    chorus, and some of them even harmonize to some extent. The 
    Alesis MidiverbII is starting to become obsoleted by all the
    layered effects processors on the market, so you can now buy
    them very cheap ($250, where a year ago they were selling for
    $399). At that price, you might consider buying a MidiverbII
    and getting another box that gives you the distortion/overdrive
    and compression. I have a MidiverbII and I love it. It can't
    layer, but it sounds so clean and pure, and the sounds it contains
    are very useable.           
    
    There are all kinds of notes in this file about effects. Check the
    directory.
    
    Mark
    

RE < Note 956.1 by ANT::JACQUES >

	Just a nit, but I think you can find an REX50 for much less than $500.
Last time I looked at them (some time ago) they wer going for $399.

	Dan

    
    Dan, did I actually scoop you on a blowout price ???
    
    8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    

RE < Note 956.3 by AQUA::ROST "You've got to stop your pleading" >

	Looks that way, and not by small change, either.  I must be losing
my touch!

	Dan    

    
    Two more you should probably look at.....
    
    Digitech DSP-128  
    Yamaha GEP-50, supposed to be more guitar oriented than the REX-50.
    
    We use the REX in our band, and like it, however the GEP is the
    new model set up for Guitar. We use the REX on the keys.
    
    DSP-128, we used one for PA, it had some really neat effects, but
    the bandwith was way too limiting for PA work. 
    
    You might want to check these out yourself.
    
    Tony

    How about the ART MultiVerb and the Alesis Quadraverb???
    
    I've heard that the MultiVerb has stereo digital delay, 
    chorusing, harmonizing, and reverberation for about 500.
    
    The quadraverb (coming out in November) offers similiar
    effects for around 350 - 400.
    
    Has anyone else heard about these units?  Is my info. correct?
    
    
    - Kevin

    
    	While your throwing verbs around, Peavey has a unit
    called an Adverb which is comparable to a Digitech DSP128.
    
    From what I understand it is worth checking out.
    
    Mark
    

    ART Multiverb        

    The ART Multiverb is a very good effects unit. Has 100 presets and 200?
    user programmable locations to combine Reverb, Delay, Chorus, Flange,
    Pitch Shift, and Eq. The bandwidth has improved substantially over the
    older Proverb and Proverb 200. Prices I've seen range from 430 to 519. 

    Alesis Quadraverb
        
    The Alesis Quadraverb combines Reverb /Reverb related effects with Eq
    only. Has been announced, but has not been released. Like all Alesis
    products it should be excellent, but I wouldn't hold my breath for
    an early delivery.
    
    Rocktron 
    
    Multiplex - Has Distortion, Chorus, Compression, and Exciter in a 
    single rack space for around 325. 

    Powerplay - Has Distortion, Chorus, Exciter, Echo in a single rack
    space for around 600. This unit has chips called POCITS which allow
    four or five different presets. 
    
    Rocktron recently started marketing a complete line of half rack units
    ala Sholz. 

    Also noteworthy is the ADA MP-1 which has 128 programmable locations
    combining Distortion, Chorus, and Compression. Single rack space, tube
    based distortion. Sorry, no accurate price. 
    
Dan

    That PV 'multi-effects' unit is reviewed in a recent (this month
    of last) issue of 'Home Recording'.  They said it was ok, but has
    not MIDI interface.  All the controls are manual (knobs), they weren't
    very impressed with it's price/performance ratio.  I think it's
    around $400 or so.
    
    Greg

    
    I have an Alesis Midiverb 2 for sale.
    
    Its a year old and like new.Has 99 effects.An excellant unit.I used
    it on my PA.
    
    Michael
    

    The latest price on a Alesis Midiverb II is $239
    The REX-50 can be had for $213.........if you want to travel to
    N.Y.C.  ............Rich
    

RE < Note 956.11 by HAMER::COCCOLI >

>    The latest price on a Alesis Midiverb II is $239
>    The REX-50 can be had for $213.........if you want to travel to
>    N.Y.C.  ............Rich

	LaSalle's in Boston is selling the REX-50 for $199.
	An Alesis MV II can be had for around $200, if you look in the
	right places (Mail Order).    

    
    I just checked out a new Digitech Smart Shifter last night
    at Wurly. For all the people that have been saying they would
    like a harmonizer, this could be an inexpensive alternative.
    I'm not saying it is an Eventide, but It is worth checking
    out. I didn't ask the price since I wasn't really considering
    buying it.
    
    It has about 100 presets and room for about 20 user defined
    patches. It also has a key transposer. The presets include
    several patches for each of the modes, with 1-4 note combinations
    ranging from root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc. It is neat, but you
    definately have to get used to it before it sounds good at all.
    
    Mark
    

    I think it's called the IPS 33.  It lists for abotu $699.
    
    It is a good inexpensive alternative to the (still Vaporware)
    Eventide H-3000.
    
    	db

    Y'know, it wasn't until I had read the words "key transposer" 
    a second time that I realized just how valuable that MIGHT
    be.
    
    How many times have spent mucho time learning a piece, figuring
    out the clever utilizations of open strings, etc. only to
    have the singer come to practice and say "could we lower it
    a half step?"
    
    Happens to our band on about 10% of the songs (conservative estimate).
    When I'm playing keyboards on the tune, I can always say "hey...
    no problem".  When I play guitar however, I more typically say
    "What the hell do you mean 'can we lower it......".
    
    	db
    
    p.s.  Yes, I know about Capos (even MIDI capos), but I can't
    	  use them.  I really can't shift my fingers without getting
    	  confused.  As a matter of fact, it's even hard for me to
    	  use MIDI transpose cause when I play a C I expect to hear
    	  a C.

          Anybody out there is dec land have any experiences running
    a bass through any of the previous mentioned multi fx units ???
    I've got a bunch of stomp boxes that i run through now but would
    like to go rack mount with a multi fx unit.  I am interested
    in something that has chorus, flange, delay, compression.  Any advice
    will be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.
    
                                                         smokin' bass,
    
                                                           Dan . . .

    
    OK, I haven't actually tried any of these new boxes on bass, but....
    
    I have found in general that while guitar effects can be used for
    bass, they seldom are optimal.  Most common problem is loss of low
    end, particularly when using chorus or flanging.  Distortion is
    pretty useless, as is reverb.  Compression when set up for guitar
    is usually optimized for sustain, for bass it should be optimized
    for level limiting.  
    
    A perfect case in point is the Scholz Rockman which has compression,
    chorus and echo.  Play a bass through one and you'll be
    surprised.....it sounds absolutely awful, while for guitar it's
    perfect!!! 
    
    Unfortunately, it's only recently that any manufacturer (except the
    long-dead Electro-Harmonix) has bothered to make effects specifically
    for bass....Boss has lead the way here.  Maybe we'll see something
    like the ME-5 for bass in the future!
    
    

    
    I talked with Bad Bob Nyswonger of the Bears about what stuff he
    runs his bass through, and he uses all of the boss/roland micro
    rack stuff.  He's a lot more pleased with it than all the stomp
    box stuff.  Not really cheap stuff, but I've seen a lot of places
    blowing it out at about 1/2 of retail.
    
    Ashley (Who uses up to 12 stomp boxes on his guitar)

    Hello again,
    
           Who is Bob Nyswonger ???
    
           Do you have any detailed info on this micro rack stuff ???
           (what type of effects, cost, any stores in the area where
            you can check them out)  thanks much. . .
    
                                                      smokin' bass,
    
                                                      dan . . .

    
    The Boss micro rack line, now discontinued, was a bunch of small,
    roughly half rack size modules, things like delays, reverb, compressor,
    chorus, etc.  Boss also made a mini-rack to hold the stuff.  It
    was aimed at the home studio market.
    
    Union Music in Worcester has a few pieces left, and cheap too. 
    Check out your local Boss dealers.
    
    The supposed hot unit in the series is the digital delay which also
    does pitch shift/harmonizing.
    
    

    
    Another neat thing about the micro rack line was that many of the
    units which included modulation had a modulation buss, which would
    allow you to hook up all of these units (flange, phase, chorus,
    et. al.) and have them modulate at the same rate.  No warbling here.
    
    Ashley

    I believe you can also hook up a boss expression pedal to the
    modulation bus, and control the modulation from the floor pedal.
    Boss and Roland make several differant units that connect to 
    Expression pedals.
    
    Mark
    

    I recently got a copy of the IPS 33 Intelligent Harmonizer manual.
    
    It's a pretty hot box at a great price.  The only thing you can
    compare it to is the Eventide H-3000 which goes for about $1300
    more (around $2000).
    
    The Eventide does a few more things, but I was pleasantly surprised
    to discover that the IPS will let me do the kind of things I
    am thinking about doing.  In particular, it will let you do
    something akin to defining your own scales.  The way it works
    is that for each note, you tell it what the harmony note
    should be.  You don't actually get to define it in terms of a
    scale (which has the limitation of "your" scales but not being
    independent of key as are the builtin scales) but as there are
    something like 16 user definable harmonies, it's at least got
    enough memory to store all the ones your likely to need on call.
    
    I may post a more detailed review when I finish reading the manual
    and ACTUALLY get to sitting down with one and trying it out (nope,
    I haven't done that yet).
    
    	db

Hi,

I'm looking for a preamp-multieffect rack and I don't really know what 
to buy.
I went quickly through the conference and got some interesting info, but
I still don't know what to buy :

    - ART SGE
    - ART SGE MACH 2
    - ROLAND GS-6
    - ROLAND GP-8
    - ROLAND GP-16
    - DIGITECH (I don't know the references of all there models)
    - YAMAHA (I don't know the references of all there models)
    - others ???

May be some of you who got some experience with some of the above mentioned
(or other) similar stuff can give me some advice.

I absolutely want a few different distorsions and/or overdrives, delay, reverb,
chorus, compressor/sustainer. Phaser, Flanger and other effects would be nice
but not mandatory.

An other question is how do you guys use your multieffects ?

Directly in the PA ?
Through a real guitar amp ?

All kinds of comments, info etc welcome,

Taco.
    

    Well, the best comment is: you will have to go demo all of them.  I know
    people who own just about every device that's out there and of course
    they all bought the best *for them*. 
    
    Actually, almost any box you buy will do the job, but the quality of
    the sounds, distortion in particular, is quite subjective.  As far as
    the other effects go, most of the boxes out there will do them all more
    or less equally well, although again you may think brand X has better
    reverb and brand Y has better chorusing.  When you stuff all your
    effects into one box, it's hard to please *everybody's* ears.
    
    I suggest you extract the notes on the various boxes and read them when
    you have time.  You'll find noters in there that would be glad to talk
    to you off-line about their boxes, I'm sure.
    
    
    							Brian

    The possibilities are endless. You also have to consider
    price/performance. 
    
    One comment is that there are two or three basic ways of getting
    distortion. One way is with a tube preamp. Another is with an
    analog distortion. Some boxes even have digital distortion. 
    
    All I can say is don't make a hasty diecision. Soetimes it's a
    blessing when you don't have the money right away. It gives you
    more time to look and demo all the available products while you
    are getting the funds togther.
    
    Mark
    

Since you mentioned preamps, keep in mind that not all the units you mentioned
will function as a preamp, if you need that.  The SGEs definately do not.

As everyone has said, the sounds from these units are a very subjective thing
and you'll have to try them to see if you like the sound.

Greg

    My advice (not worth a whole heck of a lot, but what the heck):
    
    	A Roland GP-8 will give you "that processed sound"
    
    	You might want to consider a separate distortion such as
    	a ProCo Rat
    
    	Definitely go through an a 'real' guitar amp
    
    	I like ART better than Digitech multieffect products because
    	of the way you can program the units (Digitech has algorithms
    	that you follow that are, IMO, pretty limiting)
    
    	ART offers a unit that allows multiple effects simultaneously
    	of the following (I think):
    
    	Delay (and related effects such as chorus, flange, etc.)
    	Reverb (many different types, reverse, etc.)
    	Compressor/Sustainor
    	Pitch Transposing
    	and maybe more
    
    	You can buy a used Rat for $35, the multieffects processor, I don't
    	know how much.
    
    	joe.
    	

Happy Digitech DSP128+ owner checks in..

First, you can get that 'over-processed sound with just about
any of these gadgets..  

Moderation and carefull editing is the key with all of these 
multi-effect-super-zippy-x-100-space-modulator things..  Over do it,
and you be dead..

DSP128+ offers no  over-drive, but Chorous, Delay, Flange, Parametric EQ, 
Low Pass filtering, Digi-reverb .. all available via preset 
algorythms,,, 

you can edit the 128 effect patches any which way you like,,  to get up
to four different effects at one... like, Verb+Delay+Chorous+eq...
or,, just Chorous, or just reverb,, or Chorous+delay,, know what I mean vern..

also comes with a hand-dandy three switch stomp box, to handle program
change (Up/Down) and by pass (off)  and for you midi dudes and dudettes,,
with the proper programing and another foot switch, this gem will send midi
program changes to (your favorite midi thing here)  network ,, {thank
you lord...}

it also does stereo if it has to...

if you're not sold yet, I got mine at East Coast Sound for 299..  (most
places are looking for more... 347 -> 399 U.S. Dolleros..)

On the down side, you have tweak the effects patches based on what you're
doing.. for instance, a nice Chorous/reverb/delay that works pissa when
you're playin clean, might not make your socks roll up and down when
you hit the gas...  To solve it, copy the effect patch to a new location,
edit it, and you know have one for clean, one for raunch,, ahh yes, I
love this country...


Some of the other things I looked at, (like the some of the roland, don't
get me wrong, Roland is real hard to beat.. but  they also 
cost about as much as your average Eldorado) pretty ,much have the
same functionality across the board.

Granted,,  maybe more bells, whistles, possiblly more simultanious effects,,
etc... but, then again,,, some of the capabilities verge on the side
of extreem...  256 presets.. 10 simultanious effects!!!. Gahd...  

"Photon Torpedos",, {8^O    (GSP 125..)


I've found that a dozen GOOD preset effect patches are more than enough
for me...  except for those times when anything could happen...

at anyrate,,,

Try one,,  compare,,,

Yep, try one.

I've owned quite a few of these gadgets.  In my opinion, stay away from the ones
that claim "...17 simultaneous effects...".  The SGE *LEAPS* into my mind, since
I owned one...  Too much, too much, too much !  You begin to loose the sound
of your guitar in there someplace...

When your in the store, your running thru he presets thinking "wow, this thing
sounds killer" when you should be thinking "Is this sound (flange+chorus+
delay+reverb+pitch transposed+distorted+modulated+phased) useful Can I use it
on stage ??

I owned a DSP128 (no plus, 3 effects at once) and dumped it cheap.  I screwed up.  
I want it back.

To me, the ultimate set up is:

ADA MP1 (Preamp/Distortion)
Hush (Noise reduction)
DSP128 (multiFX, no distortion)
Power amp (lightweight and ballzy type)

All I need is a DSP128, and I'm ready to do battle again.

jc (Who sez less is more)

    I too am interested in an effects unit maybe. What I'm really after is
    the most cost effective (say in the longer term) way of acquiring the
    following minimum effects:
    
    Delay, Reverb, Compressor, Chorus and possibly a decent overdrive. It
    would be to go with a Fender Champ 12 (I don't like the reverb on
    this).
    
    Question is do I go for the Boss multi effect pedal (ME5?) or similar an
    effects pocessor? What would the advantages/disadvantages of these two
    different approaches?
    
    Also, a previous reply mentioned midi interfaces on guitar effects
    processors. I also have a digital piano with midi in/out. How could I
    use such a combination with guitar (or even without?). Could the
    effects processor be used with the keyboard alone and/or could I get
    piano/organ/vibraphone/harpsichord etc sounds via the guitar?
    
    Regards,
    Richard, Basingstoke, UK

>    Question is do I go for the Boss multi effect pedal (ME5?) or similar an
>    effects pocessor? What would the advantages/disadvantages of these two
>    different approaches?
    
    Just for an opinion, I recently tried out the Boss ME-5. I was pretty
    unimpressed with the sounds I got out of it. But then, I also tried out
    an ART SGE not too long ago and didn't care for that much either. I
    have yet to hear a rack unit that could match the distortion of a Ratco
    pedal (which I've never owened, by the way, but I've played with people
    who used them), although the ADA MP-1 came close (too bad it doesn't
    have a reverb built in - I'm not about to spend $500-600 on a pre-amp
    and then have to buy an effects unit on top of that).
    
>    Delay, Reverb, Compressor, Chorus and possibly a decent overdrive. It
>    would be to go with a Fender Champ 12 (I don't like the reverb on
>    this).
    
    Has anybody here tried out the Ibanez PUE5? It's a pedal board similar
    to the Roland GP-8 or Boss ME-5, but the controls are all "analog"
    knobs and buttons. From the ads I've seen it has compression/sustain,
    distortion, delay and chorus, plus noise reduction and an effects loop.
    There are six pedals on it, and it appears that you can set up five of
    the pedals with any combination of the above effects (the sixth is for
    by-pass). It seems to have line, tuner and headphone outs as well as
    instrument level outs (2), so it looks like it would be a fairly simple
    and versatile unit to use. I have no idea what the cost is. They have a
    bass version as well (the PUE5B).
    
    I'm curious about this because some of the individual Ibanez boxes I've
    heard were decent sounding.
    
    - Ram

    Check out discrete devices if you can . Art stuffs 11 effect into 1
    box,
    if you heard the sound of 11 seperate boxes on the same setting, 
    I bet the difference would be like a pound a mud getting washed off.
    The advantage of the Art is effect per $. 
    I don't mean floor stomp boxes, I mean a dedicated rack mountable
    delay, distortion, compressor, harmonizer. 
    I saw an old analog flanger ( no IC's ) that just blew away all the
    other flangers I've played.  I didn't get it, thou :-( mr. Regret 

    No 1 unit is perfect - keep that in mind.  Not for everyone, anyway. 
    I have a GP-8, and I like a LOT of the features, which other guitar
    players would have no use for.  The best advice is still to hit the
    pavement, with YOUR guitar in hand and try a bunch of 'em out.  And
    remember too, that a lot of the factory presets on some units aren't
    very functional - they're effect overkill - showing what extremes the
    unit is capable of.  When I got my GP-8 I thought the factory presets
    sounded great.  But after a while, you'll see that less IS more.  Take
    your VISA and your better judgement and have a good trip !   8^)
    
    Scary

    re .10
    
    Scary,
    
    I think you touched on a *very* important point about effects
    processors. Sometimes you have to play with the presets to get
    usable sounds. Part of this probably stems from the fact that
    not all of these units are dedicated to guitar. Also, they want 
    to show off what the unit can do.
    
    I keep trying to tell this to our soundman who bought a DSP-256,
    and is dropping "utimate reverb" and "reverse reverb" all over
    the place.
    
    -Tom

  << Also, a previous reply mentioned midi interfaces on guitar effects
  << processors. I also have a digital piano with midi in/out. How could I
  << use such a combination with guitar (or even without?). Could the
  << effects processor be used with the keyboard alone and/or could I get
  << piano/organ/vibraphone/harpsichord etc sounds via the guitar?

That was probably my reply,, I'm not sure how you'd set up one to do both,,
the DSP128+ does have stero capability,, add to that, most of the in/output
jacks ARE indeed programmable as is the foot switch jack(s) so I'd
assume that you would have the capability..

The midi thru in the DSP128+ alows you to set up a midi interface
where as you program one of the foot switch jacks (there's two) to
send midi program changes via the midi ports..  Now, I'd assume with
two foot switches you could set one up to handle the midi network, and
let one remain to run the DSP128+, then by using side A and/or Side B
you *may* be able to run two instruments via the one rack as long as you
use one side at a time.... or maybe both, I'd have to read the manual
to see,,, I wouldn't be surprised, the DSP128+ has a ton of functionality..

RE: flangin..
.
Nothing I've *EVER* used flanges quite as well as my Old MXR Flanger...

Noisy as a heard of elephants, but a damn effective flanger...    The DSP128+
has a decent flanger tho..  

Scary is 100% right,,,  the factory presets when I first bought the
Digitech were all over kill..

I had to severly edit every preset until I had it where it wasn't
murdering the sound...  less is better,,,  no doubt about it.

An effect is supposed to color and enhance,, not take over.  (MHO)

     
      I've been down this road before....
      
      I had an old Ibanez UE400 multieffect (non-programmable, but 
    impressive for 1982).
    
      First programmable multifx - Roland GP-8 : very flexible, sadly
    missing reverb and pitch transpose, nice master volume per patch,
    doesn't work as well in an effects loop or after a preamp because
    of the lack of overall input/mix/output levels. If it did work
    well after my preamps I probably would've kept it.
    
      ART SGE - could be more flexible and the analog effects could
    be better (compressor,exciter,eq,dist), but in the bang for the
    buck department and it's adaptability to most rack applications
    this is still my choice (i.e. I'm keeping it till something really
    better comes down the road).
    						---/boom/---

Another good point about the presets being garbage...

...I've heard from some users of multiFX units that they don't like to program
the darn things...They'd rather twist a knob (you know who you are!).

Be prepared to spend some quality (and quantity) time programming and tweeking
these parameters.  It takes a LONG time to get the sound *just right*.
Even with my MP1, which is perhaps the easiest of all to program, I spent
six months tweeking and squeezing out the perfect (for me) tones.

Damn, they sound good.

jc (Who only needs a DSP128+ now)

    The discrete components have more control over the parameters than the
    mutli-boxes. Every time I hear the Art machine I hear a TOY.
    I like toys.

<<They'd rather twist a knob (you know who you are!).

This takes way to much time,,  for instance an anolog delay pedal,
(Even some rack mounts)  you turn the dealy time knob to one time slice,
and that may work well for a few tunes, but once you need to change,,, 
your back down turning nobs, and in the dark, between songs, you only 
have a few seconds,,,,  with the programmable/editables you just grab the
effect patch you have preset,, takes a fraction of time, and it's
always what you want or need,, next change, stomp the foot switch
and grab your next preset effect patch...

I found this to be easily one of the best fringe benefits,,,

While the other guitar player is fiddling with his yamaha anolog delay/chours
unit, I hit the pedal and get my effect...  I'm always ready, he's always
rushing..

This style of effect,, (programable/selectable) you can't beat em, no matta 
which one you buy...

    the addition of MIDI controls with the exception of the multi-pedals
    such sa ME-5 has not been concerned with low-price pedals.
    
    Distrete components on a rack , all midi, is the usual now. 
    Stevie Vai throws out a comment in the new GPFTPM to the effect
    in describing his rack, as if all the pros have these components.
    
    Yes, big bucks.  Yes, you really can load the effect on it still
    hear the guitar. No, I don't want any, thanks, I'll just take a cord
    for now. 
    
    

    One more time guys:  My DSP-128+ is for sale!  Make me an offer, I'm
    asking $275, but it's negotiable.
    
    Will

 <One more time guys:  My DSP-128+ is for sale!  Make me an offer, I'm
 <asking $275, but it's negotiable.
  
Big hint:

Anyone interesting in picking one up ought to talk to this boy!  

    Yeah he put the DSP128+ up for sale about a month late.  I already
    spent my refund on other toys!
    
    Mike_who_thinks_he_needs_a_DSP128+

    The following is the best Rack/Sounds I have heard, it belongs to
    a guy by the name of Andy Watson (lead guitarist with a local HM
    band)\
    
    DPS 128+
    ADA MP1
    SIMMONS SPM 8:2 (MIDI PROGRAMMABLE MIXER)
    BBE SONIC MAXIMIZER 442A
    MARSHALL SERIES 9000 50+50W VALVE POWER AMP 9005
    
    This thing cranks.
    
    Bob

    Yep, that sounds like a killer rig !  
    
    Scary (who's gonna air out his non-rack Kitty Hawk in a few hours)

I agree that less is more when it comes to effects, however I don't believe 
that makes the SGE any less valuable as a tool because it offers you a lot of
flexability.  Just because it'll do 9 (or 11) effects at once doesn't mean 
you'd want to do that very often.  

Lately, I find that I've been creating patches that have only 1-3 effects in 
them and it works great.  I typically just use it for reverb (I really like 
the reverbs it has), chorus, and delay effects.  But one of my favorite patches
uses some ungodly number of effects, something like 7 or 8.  It was something
that I threw together to show Joe Minville what the thing would do when he 
was visiting once and everyone I've played it to has loved it.  "Joes Delay" 
is a winner and it uses many effects.

I totally disagree with the statement that having a particular effects unit 
makes you sound like everyone else that has one.  Maybe this is true if you 
use the effect patches they provide you, and perhaps easier to happen if you 
have a unit that works in predetermined effect algorithms (like many of 
Digitechs) or something that is very limited in it's controls (like a Rockman),
but I don't think that a flexable multieffects unit has a characteristic
sound of it's own.  

Preamps certainly do.  Regardless of how flexable people claim the MP-1 is, it
has one very recognizable sound (tube distortion voice selected with lots of
gain) that I instantly hear.  It's a great sound, but you can recognize it 
right off.  I have yet to hear a recognizable sound from my SGE.  I believe
that I could duplicate the sounds I use from it pretty easily using a DSP-128,
or a GP-8 or any of many other units.

I bet if you listen to my sound and John Reaumes sound you'd find them totally
different, even though we're both using an SGE and a Kitty Hawk amp.

Greg

re...24    
    Less is more for me,
    Larry

***** thanks Larry,after a couple of months of looking at all the digital
effects boxes,I pretty much came to the same conclusions and saved myself
the money,heartache and pain. The time and money spent can certainly be
better spent on playing and other worthwhile musical investments. I can
see it as a tool for recording. But for performance I've found the MVII
to do what I need to do and the rest is in the fingers. :^) Some people
play effects some play there instruments. :^)

	What I didn't like about the digital effects units is that they
all impact the sound of your setup regardless of bandwidth,programability
or where you place them in your signal chain. 

	However,I think with guitarist there are those who cover tunes
and sound like every other player and those of us who both cover tunes
and have our own style/sound. I see this as two different level of players
and btw I'm not putting one above the other as they all have there place.

	When it comes to the difference between hardware tonality 
characteristics they are the same to the untrained ear whether your using a 
midifiedoverprocessedpreamp or using a $40 fuzzbox. Admit it you like
your sound for yourself and your convienence. When was the last time you 
could find someone at a club who could tell the difference between a Marshall 
and a GK or DSP128 or a Quadraverb? They can all sound good or bad......
	As for what another guitar hears well mileage may vary....
    
							Rick

I found that less is more for me also.

I'm usually running my Quadraverb in the extended reverb algorhythm mode 
typically two effects, and I only use the reverb....my chorus and flange
patches are cleaned up t the point of really only using 2 of the 4 effects.

Since my rig is higher tech than 9999% of the other rigs in the entire state
that I've seen, I guess maybe I have a recognizable sound, at least it's 
unique in itself.

I have yet to see very many rack rigs here in Maine at all...I guess potatoe
farmers don't rock with racks...


dbii

    How important is program titling/editing in an effects unit?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

    Well based on my experience with the Quadraverb it can be usefule in
    keeping them straight, unless you're good at remembering that pathc #
    51 is your special killer space echo for a particular song.
    
    dbii

    It can also be rather amusing 8^)

   (Sam's on a rampage again today, folks...  :-))

   Early on in this note some questions were raised about multi-effect units
   for bass.  The last real entry on the subject was from Brian Rost back in
   '88 (that'll age ya).  At that time, "things were starting to happen".

   So, what's the scoop on bass effects these days?  Are any good multi units
   available?  I'm particularly interested in chorus, reverb, and if possible
   envelope followers/filters.  I've seen pedals that do reverb and chorus,
   and of course these are available in most rack units, but how about the
   envelope stuff?

   Thanks in advance.

   -- Sam

    Re: .54
    
    Envelope followers for bass are actually missing from most of the
    multieffects out there.  Last one I remember was the Ibanez U303B floor
    unit, which was about 1983 vintage...
    
    It's defintiely missing from the Boss units, and I *think* the Korg A5
    lacks one as well. Maybe it's not easily implemented in digital
    technology, as many digital synths until recently had rather primitive
    filtering functions, if any.
    
    I'd say it's a case where you may still need to go with a stomp box.
    
    							Brian
    
    P.S. Working on some Bootsy covers?

Actually, it's just one of the few effects I like the sound of when I want to
sound "different".  Chorus, reverb, etc I think of as just enhancers, not a
real "effect".

But I believe you're right.  In all the looking around I've done I've not seen
an envelope filter as part of a multi unit.  But you can still get the stomp
box new from AMS for about $45.  Not too bad.

Thanks,

-- Sam

    Anybody have a phone number for A.R.T.?
    
    joe (stuck at work without my literature)

    
    Anyone have any experience with the Ibanez PT-6 multi-effects box?
    Daddy's in Nashua had one w/sticker price of $319 compared to the Korg
    A-5 price of $300. And the PT-6 had lots more effects -- auto-wah,
    pitch shift, etc.
    
    Thanks,
    
    JP

    
    Saw this extensive review on the Usenet, thought someone here might be
    interested...
    
    Greg
    
    
Article 35118 of rec.music.makers:
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From: [email protected] (Mark R. Rubin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers,alt.guitar
Subject: A Review: Rack Mount Guitar Processors
Date: 6 Jul 1993 21:34:12 GMT
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o There's been a lot of discussion about guitar multi-effects
  processors recently.  I just spent the last three weeks hanging out
  in various L.A. guitar stores trying them out, and bought one last
  weekend.  Because of this, and despite the fact that nobody asked
  for my opinions, I'm going to put down my thoughts on the subject.

o I'll begin with a few warnings.  First off, I ain't the greatest
  player around.  Far, far, (far, far, far ...) from it.  Imagine a
  below-average garage band player who dreams of playing Steely Dan
  charts.  That's me.

o Second, I have unconventional, even anti-conventional, tastes and
  opinions in guitars and amps.  A fifties Strat and Les Paul, plus a
  blackface Twin and Deluxe, maybe an original Crybaby pedal ...
  that's heaven, right?  Well, not for me.  If the words "Marshall
  4x12 Slant Cabinet" cause you to get all misty-eyed, you'll probably
  want to skip the rest of this article.

o More than anything else, I was looking for versatility in the unit I
  bought.  I probably wouldn't recognize the perfect guitar sound if I
  heard it, and wouldn't know what to do with it in any case.  But I
  do like to (try to) play many different styles of music, and being
  able to quickly switch between many kinds of sounds was more
  important to me than any subset of them sounding absolutely great.
  The above notwithstanding, I was looking for musically usable sounds
  rather than gimmicky effects.  And I tend more towards cleaner
  sounds than speed-metal distortion or grunge thrash.

o I also have this bizarre pro-technology aesthetic.  It's the
  nineties:  We've got to be able to do better than vacuum tubes, fer
  cryin' out loud.  I read all the discussions that go on here about
  odd- vs.  even-order distortion, and I don't know enough about
  analog stuff to comment.  But I'm sick of carrying 100 lb. tube amps
  around and replacing EL34's when they blow.  Paul Rivera (of the
  tube amp company that bears his name) once said in print that he
  believed digital signal processing would soon match the "tube
  sound".  His amps aren't as popular as they were a few years ago,
  but I still think his opinion carries some weight.  (More than mine,
  anyway.)

o Those were my ground rules.  Versatility, whiz-bang technology, and
  a non-brain-damaged user and software interface.  I wanted an
  effects box going into a squeaky-clean hi-fi power amp and full
  range speakers (or straight into headphones or a board).

o As usual, all opinions expressed are strictly personal.  I take no
  responsibility for any mistakes in my descriptions of the various
  products.  Feel free to tell me the effects box (or vintage Marshall
  stack) you play through "kicks ass" on the solution I've chosen.
  All that said, if anyone's still reading ...

o I read reviews of / studied manuals for / looked at / listened to /
  played through (in alphabetical order):

	Alesis Quadraverb GT
	Art SGX T-2 / Art SGX Nitro / Art SGX 2000
	Digitech GSP 21 Pro Legend
	Marshall JMP-1
	Peavey Pro-Fex II
	Rocktron Chameleon / Rocktron Intellifex
	Zoom 9030

  I did not get to try:

	Mesa Boogie Tri-Axis
	Rocktron ProGap Ultra
	Roland SE50 / Roland SE70 


o The Quad GT ended up in the first runner-up position on my list.
  It's a slightly older design than the other units, and is beginning
  to show it's age.  It doesn't have a data-entry knob (only buttons)
  which make it a little harder to manipulate.  It's got a nice 2-line
  backlit LCD display panel.

  The MIDI implementation is fairly complete (you can change both
  patches, and parameters for the patches, via MIDI).  It had the
  fastest patch-to-patch switching time (almost instantaneous) of
  anything I tried.  I was a little hamstrung by not being able to
  play through it; instead, I heard it demo'd by an excellent player
  who had tweaked a lot of the patches.  Both probably contributed to
  the unit sounding good.

  It's basically a digitally-controlled analog pre-amp, followed by a
  24-bit DSP processor.  The analog stage does all the distortion and
  EQ, and the DSP does the chorus, delay, reverb, etc.  My biggest
  gripe with it is its lack of flexibility.  Each of its 100 patches
  is in one of eight fixed configurations (combinations of
  effects/orders), some of the which are fairly specialized (for
  instance, one which has preamp, ring modulator, delay, and reverb).

  On the other hand, the effects in each configuration can be turned
  on and off, and some can have their inputs switched between several
  sources.  Several effects (like delay and reverb) only have their
  full power and configurability when used in particular
  configurations.  In particular, the EQ type and number of parameters
  are very different between the various configurations.

  It looks like most useful configuration would be "Quad Mode", a
  complicated, multi-path mix of preamp, EQ, tremelo/panning pitch
  shift, delay, and reverb.  The other modes are simpler, but have
  more control over the individual effects.  In all, I thought it
  would be hard to get a specific sound with this non-orthogonal set
  of choices.

o The three ART boxes are more similar than they're different.  The
  Nitro is an updated T2, with more memory and a tweaked overdrive in
  the analog front section.  The 2000 is a two-space high unit with a
  tube in the analog front end.

  Ignoring the ugly graphics on their front panels, they are 
  interesting units.  The user interface allows making a custom chain
  of individual effects, but their order is fixed.  The 2000 was the
  best sounding of the bunch, but it was out of the question for me
  because of its size and because it has that antique technology in
  it.  The Nitro sounded "thrashier", than the T2.  Even the T2,
  however, sounded too harsh for my tastes.

  All of them feature a 2-line LCD display, and a data entry knob.  I
  think the T2 and Nitro use a wall-wart power supply while the 2000
  takes direct 120V power.

  One feature that all the manufacturers should copy from ART is the
  built-in guitar tuner.  Once you've bought an expensive DSP box
  that's already doing pitch analysis and processing, why should you
  have to buy/use a separate device for tuning?

o The Digitech GSP 21 Legend (an updated version of the older "Pro")
  has a lot going for it.  It comes with a nice foot controller
  included.  The pre-programmed patches were by far the best sounding
  of any unit I heard, maybe because they were (supposedly) created by
  big-name players.  The box has an external effects loop, and an
  internal power supply (no wall-wart).

  Like the Alesis and the ARTs, the GSP has digitally controlled
  analog preamp followed by  a set of full digital effects.

  Unfortunately, it's fairly limited in flexibility.  It has fixed
  effects combinations/orders which can't be changed, although there
  are parameters for each effect (including bypass).  It has no pitch
  shifter, and no phaser  (Another one of my heresies is that I'd
  almost give up a chorus to get a phase shifter.)

o I listened to the Marshall JMP-1 early in my search, before I had
  fully decided what I wanted.  It's a digitally controlled tube
  preamp, with no other effects.  The distorted tones were (naturally)
  great; I didn't like the clean ones as much, even after playing
  around with the EQ and the "Bass Shift" button.  It has a nice user
  interface (single data entry knob, plus buttons to chose function).

o I really wanted to buy the Peavey Pro-Fex II.  It was by far the
  most configurable of the units, with an interface that allows any
  combination and any order of individual effects.  You can split the
  signal into parallel paths, and/or insert an external effects loop
  anywhere you want.  The MIDI implementation was the best I saw; it
  has enough control that you could theoretically drive it from a
  computer without ever touching the front panel controls.  The front
  panel itself was pretty good, the only problem being that the single
  data entry knob was not "click" detented, and felt so loose that I
  was afraid a bump to the unit would move it (and spontaneously
  change a patch or a parameter or something).

  The Pro-Fex has the only digital reverb I've seen in any effects
  unit, multi-purpose or reverb-only, that will do a spring reverb.
  It's not perfect, but it's pretty good.  (Here's where the
  tube/analog crowd pipes in with, "No mere digital toy could ever
  approach the perfection of Leo Fender's tube-driven spring reverb.")
  It annoys me that digital reverbs can do plate, room, stadium, or 
  the third seat in row J of the Royal Albert Hall, but they can't do
  a cheesy three spring reverb.  (My guess?  None of the algorithm
  designers figured anybody would want one.  For thirty years
  recording engineers desperately tried to recreate natural reverb
  using springs and plates, and now they don't want to go back.  But
  how can you play "Wipe Out" without a spring reverb?)

  The bottom line was that I just couldn't stand how the Pro-Fex 
  sounded.  The pre-programmed presets were the worst of all the
  units, all thrash distortion or goofy ping-pong ascending pitch echo
  garbage.  Even trying single effects with reasonable parameters, the
  box didn't sound good.  I could never get a chorus that didn't sound
  out of tune, and using the pitch shifter to make a pseudo 12 string
  was even more sour sounding.  I don't want to join the "Peavey
  Sucks" mob, and I wish them luck with their next model, but this one
  didn't do it for me.

o Cut to the chase.  I bought the Rocktron Chameleon.  It's not
  perfect, but it seemed like the best compromise for my needs.

  Like the Pro-Fex, the Chameleon is all digital.  Everything,
  including the overdrive, distortion, and even Rocktron's licensed
  "Hush" noise reduction circuitry is done with digital signal
  processing.

  The Chameleon has fixed effects configurations like the Quad GT and
  and GSP 21; unlike them, they are fairly orthogonal and logical.
  Basically, you get an optional wah-wah or a phaser, followed by one
  of two types of preamp, followed by chorus or flange or tremelo or
  pitch shift, followed by delay and finally reverb.  The effects are
  in a linear chain, but with lots of signal routing and sub-mixers to
  bypass/mix around effects.

  The user interface is fairly good.  The box has four data entry
  knobs that each perform a fixed function.  This is one case where I
  don't think the extra expense (four digital encoders) is worth it
  over the alternative of a single one with pushbuttons to change
  function.  The display is a bright and clear a vacuum flourescent,
  but it has only one line, and is the less legible 14-segment (not
  dot-matrix) type.

  The box sounds pretty good.  The overdrive/distortion is very
  convincing, and the factory presets, though geared toward metal, are
  light on stupid "special effects".  The clean sounds are a little
  cold, but the unit has extensive parametric EQ which should help.
  The chorusing, flanging, and phasing sound good, and the pitch
  shift, even when set for a full octave up for a 12 string effect, is
  bearable.

  It has an input jack for a momentary contact footswith which will
  compute a tempo you tap out, multiply it by a integer factor (for
  quarter, eight, sixteenth, etc. notes) and set the delay time
  accordingly.  This is a nice feature; however, I wish you could use
  a MIDI message to do the same thing.  The footswitch means another
  cable coming from your feet to the unit.  (Note: You can set the
  delay time with MIDI, but only by sending the time value, not
  sequential MIDI messages that the box will calculate the interval
  between.)

  The biggest failing of the Chameleon is that the designers blew all
  their DSP MFLOPS on the distortion, chorus,  pitch-shift, etc., and
  didn't have much left for the reverb.  It's a really simple reverb,
  with only a couple of size and space parameters, but no "flavors"
  (plate, room, hall, etc.), and, worst of all, no gated or reverse
  reverb.  It sounds okay, though, despite its lack of features.

o The Rocktron Intellifex is a traditional studio effects processor
  that has no preamp/guitar/distortion features.  Its reverb, pitch
  shift and delay sound better than any of the other boxes described
  here.  When I get sick of the Chameleon's reverb I might consider
  adding an Intellifex, although I'd have to compare it to its many
  competitors.  I did consider getting an Intellifex and the Rocktron
  ProGap Ultra instead of the Chameleon; however, the combination
  seemed less flexible.  (The ProGap is a MIDI-controlled analog
  preamp only, with no chorus, etc.)

o I played with the Zoom 9030 under less-than-optimal conditions early
  on in my shopping, and probably didn't give it as full of an
  evaluation as the other units.  It's a half rack width unit with a
  consequently cramped interface.  I didn't like the sounds of the
  pre-programmed patches, which I remember were flashy/gimmicky.



o Here's a meaningless chart comparing features of the units.  For each
  category, "no" means the unit doesn't have the feature (or it has no
  configurable parameters), "adj" means adjustable, and a number
  indicates exactly how many adjustable levels.

  Different manufacturers call the same (or similar) feature by
  different names.  I've tried to use the "native" name if possible.
  Also, a sound might be producible by different means.  For example,
  only the Chameleon has a wah-wah specifically labeled as such, but
  the other boxes can probably produce the effect by sweeping the
  center frequency of a parametric EQ.  The Pro-Fex has nothing called
  a flanger, but a chorus with a short delay time and lots of
  regeneration would be the same.

  Also, some parameters and effects have their maximum capability
  listed, but they might not be available in all configurations.  The
  Quad GT's reverb is a good example of this.  The ProFex is
  "modeless" (all modes are user-defined), but is limited to eight
  effects at a time.

  One last note: My count of "number of effects" differs from the
  manufacturers.  I didn't count multiple types of one effect (like
  delay) as different, and I didn't count functions like mixers as
  effects.



		Alesis		Digitch		Peavey		Rocktrn
		Quad GT		GSP21 Legend	ProFex II	Chameleon
general:
========
wall-wart	yes		no		no		corded
display	lines	2		2		2		1
display tech.	lcd		lcd		lcd		vacfl
display type	dot		dot		dot		14seg
data knobs	0		0		1		4
foot controller	no		yes		no		no
inputs:
  main
    front	no		yes		yes		yes
      1/4"			1		1		1
    rear	yes		yes		no		no
      1/4"	2		2
  efx loop in	yes		yes		yes		no
    1/4"	1		2		2
  midi in	yes		yes		yes		yes
  advance pgm.	yes		no		no		no
  bypass unit	yes		no		no		no
  foot ctrlr	no		yes		no		yes
  studio remote	no		yes		no		no
  tap footswtch	no		no		no		yes
outputs:
  main
    1/4"	2		2		2		2
    XLR		0		0		0		2
  efx loop out	yes		yes		yes		no
    1/4"	1		1		2
  headphone	no		rear		no		rear
    separate			yes				no
  midi
    out		yes		yes		yes		yes
    thru	yes		yes		yes		yes
    # DINS	1		2		1		1
analog controls:
  input level	front		front		front		front
  output level	front		front		rear		front
  XLR output	no		no		no		rear
level LEDs	4		4		1		5


effects:
========
configurations	8		11		custom		12
effects order	no		no		adj		no
efx routing	adj		adj		adj		no
ext. efx. loop	yes		yes		yes		no
  out		mono		mono		stereo		
  in		mono		stereo		stereo		
  bypass	yes		yes		yes
  pos. in chain	no		adj		adj	

A/D & D/A bits	16		16		16		16
sampling kHz	??		??		44.1		??
oversampling	??		??		64x		??
bandwidth kHz	20		18		20		16
processing bits	24		20		??		24

analog effects	yes		yes		no		no
  number	8		6
  # simult.	8		6
digital effects	yes		yes		yes		yes
  number	12		9		14		15
  # simult.	varies		4max		8		8

compresssion	analog		analog		digital		digital
  on,off	yes		yes		yes		yes
  types		1		1		1		1	
  levels	7		30		1		1
  threshhold	no		no		no		adj
  attack	no		no		adj		adj
  release	no		no		adj		adj
  sustain	no		no		7

overdrive	analog		no		digital		digital
  on,off	yes				yes		yes
  types		1				1		4
  levels	7				100	
  low rolloff	no				20		no
  pre-drive	no				10		no
  clip		no				100		no
  bass		no				no		adj
  mid		no				no		adj
  treble	no				no		adj
  presence	no						adj


distortion	analog		analog		digital		digital
  on,off	yes		yes		yes		yes
  types		1		4		1		1
  levels	8		adj		no		no
  drive		no		no		100		no
  post gain	no		no		100		no
  fat		no		no		100		no
  edge		no		no		100		no
  body		no		no		100		no
  shift		no		no		60		no
  resonance	no		no		48		no
  gain		no		no		no		adj
  bass		no		no		no		adj
  mid		no		no		no		adj
  treble	no		no		no		adj
  presence	no		no		no		adj
  variac	no		no		no		adj

noise gate	analog		analog		digital		no
  threshold	adj		adj		adj		
    automatic	yes		no		no		
  attenuation	no		adj		no		
  attack time	no		no		100		
  release time	no		no		99		
  threshold	no		no		adj		
  sensitivity	no		no		9		

hush (tm)	no		no		no		yes
  on/of								yes
  threshold							adj

stereo simulate	no		no		yes		no
  low bypass					yes
  tune						adj
  depth						100

EQ		digital		analog		digital		digital
  number	1		1		4		2
  # simult	1		1		4		2
  parametric	yes		no		yes		yes
    bands	3				4		yes
  semi-param	no		no		yes		yes
  graphic	yes		yes		yes		no
    bands	3or11		7		5		
  resonators	2or5		no		no		

tone		analog		no		no		no
  types		3

bass boost	analog		no		no		no

coil tap	no		no		digital		no
  frequency					adj
  phase						adj

wah-wah		no		no		no		digital
  on/off							yes
  frequency							adj

auto wah-wah	no		no		digital		no
  types						2
  sensitivity					adj
  frequency					adj
  bandwidth					adj

enhancer	no		analog		digital		no
  levels			10		100
  tune				no		adj
  types				1		3
  balance					100

chorus		digital		digital		digital		digital
  mono		yes		no		no		no
  stereo	yes		yes		yes		yes
  LFO waveforms	2		3		1		1
  voices	1		1		1		2
  speed		adj		adj		100		adj
  depth		adj		adj		100		adj
  regen/feedbk	yes		no		200		no
  panning	no		no		no		yes

flanger		digital		digital		no		digital
  mono		yes		no				no
  stereo	yes		yes				yes
  LFO waveforms	2		1				1
  voices	1		1				2
  speed		adj		adj				adj
  depth		adj		adj				adj
  regen/feedbk	yes		adj				adj
  phase		no		2				no
  panning	no		no				yes

phase shifter	digital		no		no		digital
  mono		yes						yes
  LFO waveforms	1						1
  speed		adj						adj
  depth		adj						adj
  resonance	no						adj
  stages	no						4or6

pitch shift	digital		no		digital		digital
  # voices	1				2		1
  range
    semitones	no				yes		yes
      plus					12		12
      minus					12		24
    cents	yes				yes		yes
      plus	99				50		100
      minus	99				50		100
  predelay	no				46		no
  feedback	no				adj		no
  panning	no				no		yes
  quality	no				no		3

tremolo		digital		no		no		digital
  pre/post rvrb	no						yes
  depth		no						adj
  rate		no						adj
  LFO waveforms	1						2

panning		digital		no		digital		no
  rate		99				adj
  depth		99				8

leslie		digital		no		no		no
  speeds	2

ring modulator	digital		no		no		no

delay		digital		digital		digital		digital
  types		4		3		3		1
  all configs?	no		no		no		yes
  delay (msecs)	1500 		750		724		1000
  mono		yes		??		yes		no
  stereo	yes		??		yes		yes
  ping-pong	yes		yes		no		no
  two tap	no		no		yes		yes
  multi-tap	yes		yes		no		no
  regen/feedbk	yes		yes		100		adj
  diffusion	no		adj		no		adj
  panning	no		no		no		yes
  tape sim.	no		no		5		no
  hi freq damp	no		no		no		adj
  tap tempo	no		no		no		yes
  midi sync.	no		no		yes		no
  pre/post mute	no		no		no		yes

reverb		digital		digital		digital		yes
  types		5		5		8		1
  all configs?	no		no		yes		yes
  confg limits?	yes		yes		yes		no
  predelay	adj		adj		46		no
  early reflect	no		yes		no		no
    delay			adj
    level			adj
    diffusion			adj
  late reflect	no		yes		no		no
    delay			adj
    level			adj
    diffusion			adj
  decay		adj		adj		340		adj
    low freq	adj		no		no		no
    hi freq	adj		no		no		no
  diffusion	adj		yes		no		no
  density	adj		no		no		no
  envelopment	no		adj		no		no
  damping	no		adj		8		adj
  gate		yes		yes		yes		no
    on/off	yes		yes		no
    hold	adj		no		no
    release	adj		no		no
    level	adj		no		no
    accent	no		yes		no
      envelope			yes
      amplitude			yes
  reverse	no		yes		yes		no
  reflectivity	no		adj		no		no
  room volume	no		adj		4		no

sampling	digital		digital		no		no
  looping	yes		yes
  audio trig.	yes		no
  midi trig.	yes		no

speaker sim.	analog		analog		digital		digital
  on/off	yes		yes		yes		yes
  types		2		5		4		5
  EQ		no		yes		no		no
    graphic			6 band
    parametric			no
  cabinet emul.	no		analog		no
    on/off			yes
  mike location	no		no		no		adj
  reactance	no		no		no		adj


midi
=====
# patches	99		234		256		254
  editable	99		73		128		254
midi		yes		yes		yes		yes
  disable	yes		no		no		yes
  omni		yes		yes		yes		yes
  mono ch. 1-16	yes		yes		yes		yes
midi patch edit	no		no		yes		no
midi->ptch map	yes		yes		yes		yes
bank select	no		no		yes		no
dump patches	yes		yes		yes		yes
  all		yes		yes		yes		yes
  one		yes		yes		yes		yes
  range		yes		no		no		no
  sets of 10	no		no		yes		no
load patches	yes		yes		yes		yes
  all		yes		yes		yes		yes
  one		no		no		no		yes
  sets of 10	no		no		yes		yes
factory restore	??		??		??		yes
  all		??		??		??		yes
  one		??		??		??		yes
cont. control.	yes		yes		yes		yes
	scaling	??		??		yes		yes




o So, anyone want to buy my old Fender Dual Showman Reverb head, my
  Seymour Duncan Convertible combo, and/or my collection of analog
  stomp boxes with beautiful homebrew pedalboard and custom-built
  regulated remote power supply?  Or (more to the point), does anyone
  have any recommendations for rack-mount hi-fi power amps, or full
  range speakers?

-- 
MARK
[email protected]