Conference napalm::guitar

db,

	It's better to be a "working" musician than an unemployed snob
waiting to be discovered for the sake of art. ;^) 
	
	I've had no problems with the necks on any of my guitars,but maybe 
I'm not as sensitive to these changes since I play them daily. I also found
that opening the case and letting the instrument be exposed to the enviroment
before I tune it makes a big difference otherwise you end up retuning.I try to
keep them stored in a room where it would be comfortable for people to be.
	Two and half turns of a truss rod seems like an awful lot of adjust-
ment especially all at once.

						Rick

    I just purchased a dehumidifier a couple weeks ago for my cellar.
    Before that it was so damp down there that my tools would start
    to get mold growing on them. I don't keep my guitars in the cellar
    even with the dehumidifier, but I do keep the rest of my equipment
    setup down there. I can't afford to have my amps, and PA equipment
    start rusting out on me. The dehumidifier has been running about
    12 hrs/day since I plugged it in, but the cellar is nice and dry
    now. The rugs I have on the floor have dried out, and the musty
    smell is gone. This is a good time of year to find these units on
    sale, since all the stores are clearing out seasonal summer items
    like dehumidifiers and air-conditioners.
    
    Mark
    
    

    Dave, guitar necks will move whenever they undergo a large enough
    change in humidity and/or temperature. Leaving an axe in an attic
    or basement for storage will definitly cause the neck to change.
    This is one of the reasons the strings should be loosened when the
    axe will not be played for a period of time. (This is more important
    on acoustic instruments, as the neck/body joint and the lower bout
    area of the soundboard are most susceptable(sp?) to distortion).
    
    You can expect the necks to try to return to "normal" (wood has
    a memory) if you've brought them "out into the air again". Just
    keep an eye on them and adjust as necessary. (Whenever tightening
    the trussrod, be sure to have the strings *slack*. Tighten, tune,
    check. Repeat as many times as needed. Time consuming, but better
    than a broken rod or adjustment nut).      dep

    > Whenever tightening the trussrod, be sure to have the strings *slack*. 
    
    I don't even have the option of doing this wrong.  My guitar has
    a Kahler with a behind-the-nut lock that when in place, makes the
    nut of the truss rod inaccessible.
    
    To adjust the truss rod, I loosen the strings, slide the nutlock
    out of the way (with the strings still going thru it), and then
    turn the rod.
    
    It took me about 4 iterations to get the rod to the correct place
    because I was afraid to turn the nut much more than a 1/3-1/2
    turn each time based on a warning in a guitar repair book I read.
    
    I wouldn't have even wrote the note if I didn't think this was
    highly unusual.
    
    The truth is that my basement (where I keep my guitar) has been 
    EXTREMELY HUMID.  It is normally quite dry (it's a finished basement
    with carpeting!!!), but it has been so humid that there were
    fairly deep puddles of water on the areas that aren't carpetted and god
    knows how what was in or underneath the carpeting.
    
    I noticed in Sundays paper that Lechmere's is having a sale on
    dehumidifers so that's where I'm headed after work tonite.  I've
    been meaning to get it for some time now.
    
    I can always take the guitars upstairs, but I also have other
    electronic equipment down there that I'm equally concerned about in the
    future (it's pretty dry again right now).  I can't be moving the
    electronic stuff up and down the stairs at my age.
    
    Thanks to the people who replied.
    
    	db
    
    p.s. BTW, In the absence of a dehumidifier, I found that an ordinary
         fan blowing air out to other parts of the house (or outside)
         seemed to keep the humidity to livable levels.

    My dehumidifier has an attachment for a drain hose.  I put the
    dehumidifer up on blocks to make sure that the water ran down and
    out and then connected the drain hose to my sump pump.  Now I don't
    have to worry about emptying the full container.  My basement is
    also much drier because the dehumidifier doesn't shut itself off
    when the container is full.
    
    If you can work it out, it's the best way to go.  
    
    Kevin
    

    Wow, a lot of this is going around.  I just purchased a dehumidifier
    to keep my amps from rusting out in the basement.  However, I have
    encountered one problem; I practice down there, and the darned
    dehumidifier so noisy I have to turn it off while I'm playing.
    It really interferes with my being able to hear myself.  This one
    was a Want-Ads special, but it looks like its in excellent shape.
    Are all dehumidifiers noisy?
    
    btw, my Strat has only needed a quarter turn so far this summer;
    good thing too, since its the kind where you have to pull the neck
    to adjust the truss rod.  I don't keep it in the basement though.

    /rick

    Well, I went out and bought "Lechmere's finest" which was on sale.
    
    It's a Norge, it extracts 40 pints per day (most do 25 pints), has
    a big storage tank and has an attachment for draining via a garden
    hose (most do).  $229, but I'm willing to spend that kind of money
    to protect my equipment.
    
    BTW, the Nashua Lechmere's is out-of-stock of this item so if you've
    been considering getting one of these, you might wanna swing by
    and get a raincheck for one.
    
    Doing this gives you 30 days to decide on whether you really want
    one without requiring any kind of committment to actually buy it,
    and yet retaining your option to get one at the sale price.
    
    Gee, if you ask me, this turned out to be an interesting topic after
    all.  An important piece of equipment for maintaining your musical
    instruments.
    
    	db

    I bought mine (Emerson Quiet Cool 40 pint rating) at Percy's 
    in Worcester for $167. This was the sale price 2 weeks ago, but
    it is still available at this price using Mass Buying Power.
    With the tax it came to $175. My wife was mad cause I didn't
    shop around first, but it turns out I got the best price
    anyways.
    
    Mark
    

    So, I'll repeat my question.  Do you find these units annoyingly
    noisy or not?
    
    /rick

    
    I agree, they are noisy, but not as loud as an air conditioner.
    They basically are like an air conditioner, in that they draw
    the air across some cooling coils, and the humidity condenses
    on the coils, then the unit changes cycles, and the coils
    warm up so the condensation will drip off into the basin.
    
    I wonder if running an air conditioner in a cellar would
    also keep it dry. It seems to me that you could purchase
    and operate an air conditioner for a little more than a
    de-humidifier, and the celler wouldn't be as hot and
    stuffy. It's a thought for later. 
                                     
    Mark
     
    
    

    
    	Do you think your neck problems could be rooted in the type
    of wood used?  Because I have my guitars in a room that is subjected
    to all sorts of heat + cold, because I have a fan in both windows,
    one blowing air in, one taking air out(daytime=HOT, evening=Cool).  So 
    far, I have had no neck problems, the only thing I've detected is the 
    strings on my acoustic have rusted out a little quicker than usual.
    But my electric (maple neck) is fine.  Is there something wrong
    with my guitar?
    
    BTW, Thinking about it, the fan that blows air in, passes that air
    continuously by the necks...Almost aimed at them.
    
    					/craig
    

    
    Well, I don't have an Emerson myself, just a Sears and I noticed
    it was a little noisy so I took it down to Stig at Union Music and
    had him install a set of EMGs which cleaned up the noise problem
    OK.  
    
    I'm thinking of having a Floyd installed and then painting it puke
    green and adding a grab handle to it.
    
    
    
    
    8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)
    
    
    

According to the previous notes, I must be doin the right things. 
I keep all my electronics and
Guitars in the basement. I also have a large capacity de-humidifier that
drains into my plumbing so I don't have to think about it, even when I go
on vacation. My electric bills are a bit higher, but my stuff is safe.

I try and keep everything off of the floor, just in case of a
spring flood, but haven't had any problems this year.

Because it's underground, my basement is a very stable environment.
My basement seems to stay at about 70 degrees, and the de-humidifier
keeps it very dry. (I think it also helps to cool it)
Besides keeping my equipment in good shape, I have a good excuse
to go downstairs on hot muggy days and jam. Also, don't have
to worry about waking up the neighborhood when things get loud.

I think this set-up is the best possible, since I have never had to
do any neck adjustments on my maple neck strat (ever), or on my
acoustics. I always keep the acoustic in the case, which helps
it avoid any quick changes in environment, but I get lazy and leave
the strat on a stand. Still no problems.

When I record acoustic with a mic, I shut off the dehumidifier.

    
    	Re. -1
    
    		Especially in Spring.  One of buddies came home one
    day to find his equipment under about 2 inches of water (in the
    cellar).  Think about what this does if you have any of the old mxr
    stompboxes; they're completely submerged.  he had things plugged in, 
    I seem to recall a guitar was lying around on the floor, etc...
    Real Disaster.
    He recovered it all, but needless to say, everything's on platforms
    now.
    
    
    Horror_Stories_From_The_Studio
                                                               
    					/craig
    ps. Ok, *fine*!  Perhaps it's not the type of wood in the neck!!
     								;^)
    

    One neat trick I've found is putting everything I can on wheels.
    Either a cart, for mixers and some keys, or one of those $15
    thingamajigs that you put on the bottom of a file cabinet to make
    it portable.  I got a couple of these at K-mart, and now I have
    2 advantages: if everything floods, I'm ok, and I can move stuff
    around real easy without scarfing the carpet/floor.
    
    Ashley

   Prompted by a problem I had this weekend, and the truss rod discussion
   going on in "General Discussion", I thought I'd enter a note here.  :-)

   I have a Hohner fretless bass which I haven't played for a while in
   deferrence to my new Ibanez 5 string.  I pulled it out this weekend to
   relive fretless memories and found the neck was pretty badly bowed (at
   least for one of my guitars).  I broke out the allen wrench to adjust
   the neck and found, much to my dismay, that the adjustment bolt is 
   stripped where you "plug the wrench in"!  Ie, you can't get a "bite"
   with the allen wrench.

   Anyone know of a fix for this, short of replacing the truss rod (or neck)?

   -- Sam

    Well, you typically don't have to replace the whole truss rod when this
    happens, just the adjuster nut.  Have a good repairman look at it, my
    guess is that it won't be an expensive job.

If the threads are missing from the truss rod, you are not in very good
shape - start calling machine shops about how they might re-tap it while
on the guitar. Taking the fret-board off is not something that you want
to without the right tools (it will take carefully applied heat, unless
it's been epoxied together & then you may have to toss the neck).

It is possible to get a self tapping bolt (machine shops can help find
these and do the work) and fit a new smaller diameter bolt on a truss
rod, but this may not work well if the rod is not real thick to begin with.

							Jens

Jens,

	If someone was to replace a fingerboard on an instrument of no 
vintage value would you recommend ebony or rosewood and why? What kind of 
glue would you use to attach the fingerboard?


							Rick

    re a few back
    
    I understood that the hole where the wrench goes in was stripped,
    not the threads.
    
    Also note that if you do strip threads, it's much more common to strip
    the threads in the nut than on the rod itself.  I believe they usually
    use a softer metal in the nut just for this reason; it's fairly trivial
    to replace an adjuster nut.
    
    /rick

    re: Rick B. (.23)

    JMO, but I think the choice of fretboard wood would be one of personal
    preference.  If you like the feel of ebony or rosewood better, go with
    what you like.  Jens may have a different opinion.

    The glues usually used for attaching fretboards are either aliphatic
    resin, such as Franklin's Titebond or Elmers "Carpender's Wood Glue",
    or hot melt hide glue.  You'd want to use something like these so that
    it can be taken apart again later, something like epoxy would mean that
    your neck would be firewood the next time it needed a new fretboard. 
                                                                          
    If I were doing something like a fretboard, I'd use the aliphatic resin
    myself, 'cause the hot melt hide glue is a royal pain in the butt to
    work with, even though I already have some hide glue and have used it
    successfully for other repairs. 
                  
    Greg

>	If someone was to replace a fingerboard on an instrument of no 
>vintage value would you recommend ebony or rosewood and why? What kind of 
>glue would you use to attach the fingerboard?

This is a hard question to answer. Who is doing the work? what is the scale
length? How valuable is the instrument?

If this is a first time effort, you can buy preslotted fretboards from
Stewart McDonalds for both Gibson (24 3/4 inch scale) and Fender (25 1/2
inch scale). They even sell some that are pre-fretted. I think that these
are all rosewood.

If you are planning to do this yourself, I would use Rosewood (it's easier
to work than Ebony, and many Ebony boards are shipped not completely seasoned,
Ie. you may need to wait a year before you can use them).

There are glues that are reccomended for this purpose sold by luthier 
shops - in particular, look into what is available from Luthiers Mercantile
or Stewart McDonalds. I wouldn't use Elmers or Carpenters Glue, and never
use Epoxy - unless you never think you'll ever work on this neck again.

							Jens

>I wouldn't use Elmers or Carpenters Glue

    According to the luthiery publications I get (from GAL and ASIA), a lot
    of modern luthiers are using aliphatic resin glues exclusively, for all
    building and repair tasks.  
    
    I would agree about not using Elmers White glue (for any guitar repair
    job) since it's not very strong, has a lot of thermoplastic creep, and
    is susceptible to moisture, but their "Carpenter's" glue (aliphatic
    resin) should be ok.  The brand of choice seems to be Franklin Titebond
    though.  
    
    Remember that these glues have a limited shelf life and, while they may
    still behave acceptably for other carpentry work, will not retain the
    behaviors needed for luthiery work after a certain period of time.  I
    believe I remember reading 1 year, but I'm not sure on the time.  So,
    don't use that old bottle of wood glue you've had sitting in the garage
    for some indetermined number of years...

    Greg

   re: Stripped threads vs. stripped adjustment nuts - yes, it's just the
   allen head corners in the adjustment nut that are stripped, not the truss
   rod threads themselves.  Thanks for the advice.

   -- Sam

    re: Sam
    
    Depending on the shape and style, you might be able to get in there
    with something like a little cutting disc on a Dremel tool to cut a
    slot across the head of the adjusting nut so you can turn it with a
    screwdriver.  Either that or get an "E-z-out" tool to thread into the
    hex part of it to let you get it off and replace it.
    
    Greg

    As far as fingerboard preferences... I've owned both,even though mostly
    rosewood..If preferences were based on instruments I'd like to own which 
    were out of my price range and tones of people I listen to .... Ebony 
    would be a clear choice....

>This is a hard question to answer. Who is doing the work? what is the scale
>length? How valuable is the instrument?

I have a local luthier who is doing it,the scale length is 24 3/4,as to the 
value of the instrument,I have a very slanted opinion. In my opinion the 
instrument is un-replaceable. I guess the reason I'm asking questions 
is my lack of knowledge of common repair techniques. Due to grooves in the 
fingerboard it needs to be replaced. My main concern is anything that will
change the acoustical properties/response of the instrument from the repair.
The local luthier recommended ebony even though the original wood is rose
wood... The cost difference is minimal....

						Thanks Greg,Jens....

>The local luthier recommended ebony even though the original wood is rose
>wood... The cost difference is minimal....

If he has Ebony and it is dry (properly aged), and he can cut the fret
slots (Gibsons are common enough that he should have the right templates)
acurately, I'd go with the Ebony. You should get a slightly brighter
sound from this change. Ebony has not come from suppliers fully dried for
the last 15 years. People buy it and set it aside (I have a few Ebony
Fret boards that I've kept for the last 18 years - I know that they are dry)
and then use it when they are ready. There is a high enough demand and a low
enough quanity on the market that this can happen. There are also various
sources of Ebony and some has to be dyed to keep the color consistant
(depending on the source), some 'Ebony' is much less stable than others -
German (which is next to impossible to get - you'll be getting some ones
old stock if you find it) is very stable; the stuff from the far east
(which is what you will probably end up with - it has white streaks in
it unless dyed) is fairly unstable until it is completely dry - this is
why I keep coming back to how well seasoned the wood is. If you trust
your Luthier, then I'd say fine - If you just met him, you may not
like what the outcome is 5 years down the road).

Brazilian Rosewood is probably the least stable 'common' fret board material 
you could get, but, I doubt that you could get it even if you wanted it.

Regular Rosewood (Most likely from India) is grown in large plantations that
have grown this wood for the last 200 years - the source is better
managed than many other fret-board materials. It's not necessarily better
sounding, but it's often much more consistant in quality.

I say to avoid Carpenters Glue only because you don't know anything about
it's history and how long it's been sitting on a shelf. I'd stay away
from the heated up Hyde Glue on a fretboard (it would be a challenge to
get this heated up evenly and then attached without messing up the alignment).

							Jens

 that the adjustment bolt is 
>   stripped where you "plug the wrench in"!  Ie, you can't get a "bite"
>   with the allen wrench.

Sam,

	If you want a "bodge", try fitting a slither of thin sheet steel, 
or even the point of a scriber in along with the Allen wrench. If you have
an old set of "feeler gauges" you could try a piece of say up to 5 thou' 
about the same width (not thickness) as the Allen side dimension.

In other words, for a worn Allen nut try jamming the wrench in before turning

Also try holding the wrench at an angle as you turn, this has the effect of
jamming one/two of the edges against the nut.

Good luck,

Dave

   Re: Dave (and others who responded to this)

   Thanks for the comment(s).  I've managed to remove the old adjustment
   nut by using a slightly larger allen wrench ("next size up" in METRIC
   as opposed to the SAE size it was originally) and am now looking for
   a replacement nut.  The only problem is finding one;  StewMac sells
   Fender and Gibson style adjuster nuts, but they don't appear to be the
   same size (length) of the Hohner one.  This one looks like a Gibson
   "bullet" nut, but it's about 1-�" long.  I'll keep looking.

   Thanks for the tips!

   -- Sam

  use a v small guage drill bit & drill two small holes in the bolt head.
  Next take a pair of pointed nose pliers ( like the ones you undo circlips
  with ) stick 'em in the holes and twist....

  Click click click ... _CRACK_  - oops :)

		Cheers,
			Nik.