Conference napalm::guitar

    I have lots of guitars & some are quite better than others, however,
    the 'best ones' aren't my always my favorites. Many times the past
    owner of a guitar (or new ones for that matter) never knew how to
    set up the bridge height, or set the intonation properly. If you
    look down the guitar neck (on both sides), you can see if the neck has
    any glaring irregularities. Realise that the rules are slightly
    different for acoustic flat tops than they are for electric solid
    body guitars. On an electric guitar (say a bolt on neck type - like
    a Strat), you should see that the neck is either perfectly straight,
    or has a slight inward bow to it (pulling in the direction that
    the string tension is on). If either of these cases are true, and
    the note still buzzes, then it may be a simple matter of adjusting
    the bridge height. It could also be a minor problem with the Frets
    (worn frets in some places & un-worn ones in another tend to be
    hard to deal with, unless you like filing the frets down, or replacing
    them). If badly worn, you might be looking at a fret job ($50 -
    $100), but, these tend to be obvious. If the neck has a twist to
    it (one side of the neck looks quite different than the other),
    then the neck is of limited value & probably needs to be replaced.
    
    On an acoustic flat top, the neck either joins the body at the 12th
    or 14th fret. At this point, if you look down the neck, you should
    see a noticable bend where the body joins the neck. The neck is
    usually at a slight angle from the body & the fret board will have
    to bend to deal with both angles. This is normal, so, when you look
    down the neck,to see if it is straight, you should ignore the fret 
    board part that is glued to the body. Again, the rest of the neck
    should be straight, of habe a slight inward bow to it.
    
    The truss rod can compensate for some irregularities, provided that
    both sides of the neck are in need of exactly the same amount of
    correction. This sometimes corrects buzzes, but often, if overtighted
    by someone who does not know what they are doing, either
    overcompensates, or breaks the truss rod (I've replaced a number
    of these for people, and sometimes you probably should just throw
    the neck away & buy another neck). You never tighten more than 1/4
    a turn at a time & then you wait from 1 day to 1 week before you
    tighten any more. It often takes a while for a neck to equalize
    the stress. On some types of guitars, you can actually pull the
    fret board off if you over tighten.
    
    The moral of the story is that if a guitar buzzes, and the neck
    appears to be in reasonably good shape, the owner can have one
    of thier service people try and adjust the bridge for you & see
    if that has any effect. If it's a minor adjustment, then the shop
    owner should be able to handle it, if not, they had ought to be
    able to tell you.
    
    I have salvaged a lot of damaged guitars, or badly adjusted guitars
    in the past (in fact may favorite acoustic guitar was a $50.00 Korean
    12 string that had the action of a bow and arrow set when I got
    it. I took off 6 strings & spent some time on the frets & added
    some piezo transducers under the bridge. This guitar records better
    than any other guitar I have, including my Ovation, which cost me
    nearly $1000.00), so don't write off a guitar without spending some
    time with the instrument.
    
    I suggest that you might want to order a few books on guitar
    construction, or take a look at some of the books about guitars
    (there was one published in 1982 that contains a substantial amount
    of info about design, wiring, playing styles, and history - It's
    around 5/8 inch thick & has color pictures of guitars on the cover
    - I think that it's a 'Guitar Player' publication - that you might
    want to invest in).
    
    You couldn't be more particular about your guitars than I am. I
    have built many of my own in the last 20 years, only because I
    didn't like something about the available choices.
    
    I had a freind that put some good pickups on an old junker Japanese
    guitar & boy did it sound & play nice. Seymore Duncan & light guage
    (.008) strings did wonders for it. You never know what will work
    unless you get more involved with the art of the instrument.
    
    							Jens
    

    All of this is great advice, but the bottom line is that if you're
    going to be shelling out major bucks for a guitar you ought to take
    along someone who knows more about it. Guitars in music stores are
    almost never set up properly, and without some experience you will
    not be able to tell if something is fixable or not.
    
    - Ram

    Yes, Ram is correct, since it is hard to write a paragraph or 2
    that says everything that you need to know. I have the name of the
    book that I menthioned in .1 of this note:
    
    	The Guitar Handbook		$16.95
    	ISBN 0-394-71257-9 (paperback)
    
    IT has information about costruction, with diagrams, as well as
    information about what to look for in a guitar, when you are buying
    it. It was recently reprinted in 1987 & I feel that It's a good start
    point if you know little or nothing about what you are getting into.
    
    I originally bought it for the schematic diagrams of different wiring
    in different guitars. I've also given copies away as gifts to members
    of my family who wanted to start palying, but did not know what
    to consider important.
    
    All guitar players ar opinionated, I am also. The unfortunate thing
    about taking a friend along to evaluate your guitar is that they
    may not know diddly-squat about what they are looking for. I don't
    mean to be a jerk, but many Music sales people can spot this
    combination very quickly. Issues about finish & woodgrain may be
    brought to light in an effort to mask playability. If you are just
    starting out, you won't know, and maybe your amigo won't either.
    Just because they own a guitar, doesn't mean that they know how
    to, or if a problem can be corrected. I've been playing since 1964,
    and been building since 1971. I've tried all sorts of things & have
    learned quite a bit from experiances, but I'm not always sure how
    to fix things either.
    
    I suggest that you at least look at the book that I mentioned (there
    are others that have similar info, but are harder to find), and
    then decide what you want to do. Play as many instruments as you
    can, then buy an inexpensive, but good quality guitar. After a while,
    you might trade up, of you might find that the guitar that you have
    is fine. As I say. I never get rid of my guitars (I had a Strat
    once, that I did sell. This guitar must have been a factory 3rd,
    as the body neck junction was te absolute worst that I've ever seen.
    I used bondo to correct for the lousy workmanship - it came from
    the factory this way. The neck was off alignment by a few degrees,
    and the high E string actually was not above a fret after the 4th
    fret. This guitar had other problems & I got tired of tearing it
    apart to fix. The guitar was a 1962 Fender Strat with a Rosewood
    Neck - I changed that also) unless they are absolutly worthless,
    and I'm pretty easy going as far as that is concerened.
    
    							Jens
    

     Thanks for the advice and the book reference.  I'm going to try and
pick it up tonight.  I'd definitely feel a lot better buying a guitar if
I had a better idea of what I was looking for.


Mike
    

    There's some fantastic advice here, but I'm not sure they really
    answered your bottom line question (not to offend, the advice you
    guys gave was impecible).  Probably what the person at Mr. Cs told
    you was correct.  A lot of times when guitars are set up, slight
    sacrifices are made with regard to string buzz to get the action
    really down there.  If you play light, you may not notice the buzz,
    but if you strike the strings, you really get it.  Almost any guitar
    will give you fret buzz if you hit the strings hard enough.
    
    I personally play with a pretty light touch and like a low action.
    Several of them buzz if I play too hard, that was my choice when
    I set them up.  For someone else, the setup would be totally wrong.
    
    You may want to be sure that the guitars you play in the stores
    are tuned up to the proper pitch.  This dramatically affects the
    action (and consequently the amount of buzz).  Some stores don't
    tune the guitars often and the strings may be way below normal pitch.
    Some stores also intentionally detune  guitars so that the action
    will seem softer than it really is.  If there's a question, ask
    them to use a tuner.  You can't tell what a guitar sounds like unless
    it's pretty close to being in tune anyway.
        
    Just some ideas,
    Greg
        

	you should also mention whether you had the guitar pluggd in or
	not. If you play an electric guitar w/o an amplifier, you almost
	always play it harder than you would with an amp. If you then
	plug it in and pick lighter, you might find less buzzing problems.

	Lots of guitars will buzz if you play them hard enough. Low action
	requires light playing. 

         I noticed the buzzing when I didn't have the guitar plugged in.
    I'm not sure if it was buzzing when the guitar was plugged in, but
    I don't think so.  Its also possible that the sound coming out of
    the amp was drowning out the buzzing of the strings.

        However, what I was really trying to find out was if the buzzing meant
    the guitar was definitely in bad shape. It appears, from the responses,
    that a buzzing guitar string doesn't necessarily mean that the guitar
    is in bad shape.  It just might mean that the guitar is set up with
    real low action.  It also seems that it could just be out of tune or
    set up incorrectly.  I guess checking out a guitar isn't all blacks
    and whites but mostly grays.
    
    
    Mike

    Don't know if you were referring to my note in 456 or someone elses
    but...
    
    I guess the best thing I could tell you is don't buy the guitar
    unless they can eliminate the buzz and yet still have the action
    at a height that is comfortable for you.  If they are unwilling to do
    this, you'll never know if it is just a matter of tweaking it a
    little, or a genuine problem.  You'd be taking a gamble.
    
    Good places (IMO) will do this.
    
    	db

    YES, Dave is EXACTLY right! I probably didn't say it before, but I
    couldn't agree more.  Don't buy it if they can't make it play the way
    you want.  For your price range you can definately find something that
    you like that will play the way you want it to.  *Don't make
    concessions* as you'll almost surely regret them later ( unless
    the big desire of your heart is to play some certain brand or model
    that's out of you're price range...).
    
    My first electric was an Ibanez ST-55, a very nice guitar (I still
    have it).  Plays perfectly, beautiful action and finish.  I paid
    $225 for it used with a hard case.  It's probably worth more than
    that now.  It sounds like a Les Paul with hot pickups in it, but
    at less than 1/2 the price, since the LPs in that area, around that
    time were $500 min (for a real beater).
    
    Good luck with the search, sometimes it takes awhile, but it's always
    worth it.
     
    Greg