| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 470.1 | I do it `my way' | ERASER::BUCKLEY | Street Lethal | Wed Jan 20 1988 11:40 | 24 |
|
Well, the I use the `berklee' way, which is minimal hand movement/
finger displacement. Both of your metods seemed very odd to me,
I would (personally) play it this way:
F G Ab Bb C D E F G Ab Bb C D E F
1 2 3 1 2 4 1 2 4 1 2 4 2 4 1
Notice the hand has no movement, the Ab on the G string played with
the 1st finger is a finger stretch. Also notice the use of the
1-2-4 fingering, its much better than using 1-3-4 because you can
cover more ground with less fingerings, resulting in easier/faster
playing (However, if you're not used to 1-2-4, it'll take a while
to get used to it!)
Just as a FYI, on that same major scale fingering, I use the following
(and as a base for other scales):
F G A Bb C D E F G A Bb C D E F (G A)
1 2 4 1 2 4 1 2 4 1 2 4 2 4 1 2 4
You'll be Al & Yngwie in no time ;^)
wjb
|
| 470.2 | New Scale... | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | If all else fails, take a nap... | Fri Apr 21 1989 10:38 | 26 |
|
I'm getting caught between practicing the minor pentatonic scale
during my scale practice and practicing the major (I think) scales:
This one....
124
124
134
134
24
124
I don't like the major, and I rarely find a place where it fits
and sounds good, but I'm a novice student... and I love the blues
(oops... minor pentatonic) scale and enjoy playing it (and also
feel like I could spent the next ten years with it and still not
know everything there was to know).... will I be missing something
in the future if I neglect these new scales???
Steve
|
| 470.3 | | DISCVR::FISTER | Be all, and you'll be the end all | Fri Apr 21 1989 12:05 | 7 |
|
I'm in the same boat...little experience. There are times, in
rock, where major sounds totally wrong. Sometimes, however, it works
very nicely. A major pentatonic, for example, works with G&R's
'Patientce'.
Les
|
| 470.4 | What kind of things are you trying to fit it into | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | Conliberative | Mon Apr 24 1989 10:46 | 16 |
| re: .2
Ionian major doesn't show up in ROCK too much, but it's certainly
quite prominent in many other forms of music.
The major form that seems most common in rock is the Mixolydian:
Ionian major with dominant (flat) 7th.
If you practice mostly blues progressions or I-IV-V variants,
you'll almost never find a place where Ionian major fits.
Play along to some of the "rock ballads" ("When the Children Cry" for
example) that make it on the radio and you might find more applications
for it.
db
|
| 470.5 | No quams for natural 7 in rock n roll | MARKER::BUCKLEY | I wish it was summertime all year! | Mon Apr 24 1989 11:28 | 14 |
| re: .4
>Ionian major doesn't show up in ROCK too much, but it's certainly
>quite prominent in many other forms of music.
Really? Personally, I use Ioanian major alot. I mean, with most rock
harmonic structures consisting of `power chords', which alleviate any
real tonality, you are free to imply lots of different tensions
scale-wise. I use mixo sometimes, but sometimes I don't want that b7
in there, and the natural 7 is so much brighter sounding. One thing I
do for a substitution is Lydian for Ionian. I like that #4 in
there...sounds great. Lydian b7 is a cool scale to sub for mixo too!
Buck
|
| 470.6 | Blown Away.... | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | If all else fails, take a nap... | Mon Apr 24 1989 14:59 | 77 |
|
Awright... .4, .5 you "dusted" me good, both of you... I'm just
not that far along.... I'm getting around pretty good in this box
here:
14
14
13
13
13
14
Whom I think is position one, minor penatatonic scale and the
key depends where one plays it... I'm also getting to the point
where I could probably find the other four positions in that scale..
and I'm doing most of my scale work with this feller that I got
off an Arlan Roth Blues Video tape:
-S-
e * 8 10 12
b -S- 8 10 And back again
g 5 7 9
d -S- 5 7
a 3 5 7
e 5
* this slide done with middle finger so I stop getting "tangled
up" on my change from G string to B string.
NOW.... I'm being show these other scales... sheesh, major,
relative minor, and other stuff that I don't remember from last
week.... (don't get me wrong, I have a great deal of respect for
and trust in my instructor... I'm just looking for feedback) and
they look like this:
124 (or is it 134?)
24
134
134
124
124
Anyway.. this scale (it's a major scale if I play it one way
and a relative minor if I play it another, and minor penatatonic
if I play it still another way... and god only knows what else...
maybe if I play it upside down it says "Paul's dead.... Paul's dead...)
doesn't sound so great with rock or blues...
I spend about 15 min with warm up and scale practice at the
beginning of each session and then at least another 20 minutes after
(usually sit around with my guitar unplugged and try not to look
at the neck while I go up and down the scale.... so here's my
question...
And, look, guys if the only way you can answer it is with the
technical stuff, and your advice is that I've got to hang around
a while longer then that's OK too....
Did Clapton have to learn all this other stuff, or did he just work
with minor pentatonic?
I want to spend my scale time on scales that will make me, in this
order, an excellent player and a fast player in my music of choice:
rock and blues.. Clapton, Floyd, Springfield.. "my name ain'y Bruce",
Beatles, Neil Young, ZZ, and a "smigeon 'o' country"... three chord,
beer crying stuff.... whew... how should I spend it...
If I ignore (for a while) this new scale will I be "screwing myself"
later on???
|
| 470.7 | slow n easy | MARKER::BUCKLEY | I wish it was summertime all year! | Mon Apr 24 1989 15:46 | 65 |
| re: .6
Ok, let me try and help you out with your question, and some regards
to .4 & .5:
You mentioned you were getting around pretty good in this "box"
14 1 4
14 1 4 This adds the b5
13 --> That's a minor 1 34 (blue note)
13 Pentatonic...try adding 1 3
13 this note................ 123
14 1 4
Now, to take that `blues' form and major it a major (Ionian) scale,
you'd play
1 34
12 4
1 3
1 3 4
1 34
4
To make this form into a Mixolydian scale, the 7th degree (note next to
the root note), flattens 1 fret...you come up with this form for
mixolydian
12 4
12 4
1 3
1 34
1 34
(2)4 The note in parenthesis is the flat 7...next to the root like
said above.
Lydian mode is the Major (Ionian) scale with a #4th degree. It
looks like this:
1 34
1 34
1 3
1 3 4 <-7th degree
1 3 4 <-- #4
4 root
There is some ideas on how the forms change. Usually its no more
than a change of 1 or 2 notes from scale to scale (or mode to mode).
I suggest start learning the fingerings in terms of `scale numbers'.
ie - the first note if the root note=#1..second scale degree is
2, etc etc. That way you'll know a major scale consists of
1 2 3 4 5 6 7...and when someone says play a flat 7, you know where
in your fingerings to flat that note.
Second tip is when you play a scale...try and SING ALONG with the
notes you are playing. You goal is to HEAR what the notes sound
like. This will help in composition and transcribing.
Good luck
Buck
PS - Oh, on your question should I learn the major scale fingering
YES, most definitly. The more positions you know the easier it
is to play most songs.
|
| 470.8 | Never post a note on music theory in a hurry | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | Conliberative | Mon Apr 24 1989 16:20 | 18 |
| Bill,
I knew it was a mistake to generalize as I did even as I wrote it.
What I meant to say is that the natural seventh doesn't play well
over your typical I-IV-V rock shuffle type thing. Clearly rock
has progressed to encompass more than that and so you are quite
right that it can be used a lot.
I think the reason why it doesn't play well is because if you extend
the major pentatonic scale with a natural 4th, you get a dominant
7th when you play over IV.
Anyway, when *I* play over I-IV-V I find myself tending strongly
towards the dominant seventh OR the sharp 4 (as you mentioned)
for similar reasons.
db
|
| 470.9 | Help Major vs. Mixolydian... | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | If all else fails, take a nap... | Mon Jul 24 1989 09:54 | 18 |
|
I'm rushing this note a little cuz I'm going to begin a VMS junior
wizard course shortly... I was playing G major second position this
weekend... and started converting it to G-Mixolydian and (low and
behold) G-Mix looks just like Cmaj in second position (I think) Mix
gets the 7th flatted, right, soooo f# would become fnatural... anyways,
my question is: If I'm right about this stuff so far, does the I, IV
relationship work everywhere??? What I mean is, if I'm playing any
major scale, anywhere does playing the IV scale in the same position
give me the I scale in mixolydian mode... BTW, it really sounds cool
with some of Jef Healy's stuff where his chords include a full step
drop right after the I chord.... Help, please....
Steve
|
| 470.10 | blues out! | MARKER::BUCKLEY | Wicked rad guitar sound | Mon Jul 24 1989 10:18 | 13 |
| RE: -1
Yup, you got it!
Actually, It think in reverse...ie...when playing G Mixo...since
mixo is built off the 5th scale degree, I think `what key "G" is
the 5th degree of', however, the "All intervals add up to 9*" theory
comes into place here...you can also think `G mixo...count up 4
to the major scale' and that will work too.
* 5 + 4 = 9
Buck
|
| 470.11 | | UPWARD::HEISER | when you're sold out, the mark shows | Thu Apr 19 1990 19:11 | 208 |
| From: [email protected] (sampson david 58163)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
Subject: Scales and Modes
Date: 6 Apr 90 18:47:26 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: Harris Gov't Aerospace Systems Division
The one subject in music theory that ALWAYS seems to confuse poeple is
MODES. Until I found an artile last year in Guitar Player by Frank
Gambale, I too was confused. I can give you the punch lines and help
you understand modes, so hold on.....
Scale Basics:
------------
People illustrate topics with the C major scale because it doesn't
contain sharps or flats that tend to confuse beginners. I'll start
off with that scale by showing how any scale is constructed.
A major scale is constructed by using a series of whole and half steps
as follows: (Note: a whole step is 2 keys above a reference note on a
piano. To find a whole step starting at C on a piano, go up one key
(D#) then go to the second key above C (D). A whole step above C is
D. A whole step "distance" on a guitar or bass is 2 frets. A half
step is a difference of 1 key or 1 fret)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1
Whole Whole Half Whole Whole Whole Half (octave
higher)
The numbers are called Scale Degrees and indicate a position in the
scale. 1 is the 1st note in the scale, 2 is the 2nd, etc.
In the key of C Major, 1 is C. Now using the Whole/Half step
intervals, we can figure out if any note should be sharp or flat in
the rest of the scale. As I said earlier, C Major doesn't contain
any sharps or flats, so the scale is constructed using all of the
white keys on a piano.
The C major scale is:
C D E F G A B C
Whole Whole Half Whole Whole Whole Half (octave
higher)
Now if we want to construct a scale in D Major, we start at D on a
guitar or piano and apply the same whole/half step relationship.
First, we know that we will have the "same" notes as the C scale, that
is D, E, F, G, A, B, C & D (an octive higher). However, some of the
notes may be sharp or flat. (NOTE: whether a note is a sharp or a
flat depends on other properties of music theory. Sharps and flats
are mutually exclusive, in that a key signature doesn't ordinarly
contain both sharps and flats. The key of F has a B flat, not an A
sharp.)
The key of D has 2 sharps. One is F#, the other is C#. This is
dictated by the whole step interval that must occur between the second
and third scale degrees (F# instead of F) and the whole step
requirement between the sixth and seventh scale degrees (which forces
C to become C#).
This means the D Major scale is:
D E F# G A B C# D
Whole Whole Half Whole Whole Whole Half (octave
higher)
You apply this to construct any major scale.
MODES: What in the hell are they anyway?
----------------------------------------
A mode is an alteration to an existing scale. The following is a list
of the basic modes found in Western music:
Ionian (Major Scale)
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Myxolydian
Aeolian (Minor Scale)
Locrian
You can remember the order with this:
If (Ionian) Dora (Dorian) Plays (Phrygian) Like (Lydian) Me
(Myxolodian) Alls (Aeolian) Lost (Locrian)
The order of the modes is important. The order corresponds to a
positional relationship to a starting scale. Ionian is the first
position and IS the major scale we started with. Dorian is in the
second position. That means that if we are using the C major scale as
our reference, we move up a whole step (because that's the interval
distance between the 1st and second scale degrees in a major scale) to
D and PLAY THE NOTES IN THE C MAJOR SCALE, but starting at D instead
of at C. This make a D Dorian mode.
PUNCHLINE COMING....................
Remember that if you want to play a D major scale you play the
following notes:
D E F# G A B C# D
Whole Whole Half Whole Whole Whole Half (octave
higher)
But, I just said that to play a D Dorian mode, you play the notes from
the C MAJOR scale instead. That means that the F# now becomes F, and
the C# now becomes C (because F & C are the notes in the C Major scale).
D Dorian
D E F G A B C D
Whole Whole Half Whole Whole Whole Half (octave
higher)
OK But how do you use this?????
-------------------------------
The D major scale would be good to selct notes from for your melody or
solo parts if you play a D Major cord. Why? Because a basic chord is
made up of the 1st, 3rd and 5th scale degrees. In our D Major
example, we construct a D Major chord by playing D and F# and A.
Using the 1-3-5 relationship with the D Dorian mode our basic chord
would be D and F and A. This is a D minor chord, not a D major chord.
(When you decrease the distance between 2 notes in an interval by 1/2
step, you have created a minor interval. Doing this to the 3rd makes
a minor chord.)
So that means that a D Dorian mode would be pretty useful to solo over
a D minor chord.
It actually goes beyond that. Chords can be made up from a 1-3-5
relationship; a 1-3-5-7 (7th chord); a 1-3-5-9 (9th), etc. Look at
the D major scale and figure out how to form the 7th and 9th chords
from the notes in the scale. Then compare that to the 7th and 9th
chords from the Dorian mode. The chords will sound very different.
How do I construct a Myxolodian Mode, or any other mode?
-------------------------------------------------------
Remember that I said the order of the modes was important? The Dorian
mode was the SECOND mode. So to construct a D Dorian mode in the Key
of D, you have do to 2 things: 1) realize that the Dorian mode is the
Second mode, and then 2) ask yourself "D is the SECOND note in what
scale?" The answer is C major. That tells you that to play a D
Dorian mode, you use the notes from the C major scale, not the D major
scale. Aha!!!!!! << Major Punchline >>
If you want to construct a G Dorian, ask yourself "G is the 2nd note
in what scale?" Answer: the scale of F. So a G Dorian would be
played with the notes from the F major scale, not the G major scale!
This can be extended to any of the modes.
Example ---> Myxolodian:
What position is the Myxolodian? (If Dora Plays Like Me Alls Lost)
Answer: 5th
What key do you want to construct the Myxolodian Mode in?
How about B. So ask your self "B is the 5th note in what scale?"
Answer: D (Go back and look at the D scale listed above)
So to play a B Myxolodian we use the notes from the scale of D major
instead of the notes from the scale of B major. Using the 1-3-5 and
other variations, you can find the chords that the Myxolodian Mode is
good for soloing over.
YOU CAN DO THIS WITH ANY MODE and KEY SIGNATURE!!!!!
One other mode is special; the Aeolian Mode. The 6th scale degree
position is the relative minor for any major scale. In the scale of C
major, the 6th position is A, so the relative minor for the key of C
major, is Am. So when you play over an Am chord you use the Aeolian
mode and are really playing the notes from the C major scale not the A
major scale.
That's all off the top of my head. If anyone's intrested in more
information, send me email and I'll find what issue the Frank Gambale
article was in.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Sampson Harris Corporation
[email protected] Gov't Aerospace Systems Divison
uunet!x102a!dsampson Melbourne, Florida
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| 470.12 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | The return of the bald avenger | Fri Apr 20 1990 11:39 | 12 |
|
I spotted a nit ...
>> How about B. So ask your self "B is the 5th note in what scale?"
>> Answer: D (Go back and look at the D scale listed above)
This isn't correct, B is the 5th note in E Major, not D. The 5th note
in D major is A.
Cheers,
-Tony
|
| 470.13 | "Hmmmmmm, how did he do dat" | CBROWN::MCLEMENT | 2 necks are better than 1 | Fri Apr 20 1990 14:16 | 6 |
|
Tony, how do you pull those quotes out of his reply and insert
them in yours, or did you just type it that way to make it
look good ?
cUrIoUs mArK
|
| 470.14 | here's how | ICS::BUCKLEY | Cheesy oblique-motion tapping puke! | Fri Apr 20 1990 14:28 | 15 |
| Curious MaRk...
To extract notes...
o Hit the DO key (you'll get a command prompt)
o Type in the command OTHER WINDOW
o Cursor jumps to other person's window
o Use SELECT and REMOVE to highlight text you want to copy
o Hitt the DO key twice (recalls last command--ie, other window)
o Cursor is now back in your window...hit INSERT
o Highlight text (you can use the >>) as to separate it from your own.
Again, nice axe there mArK...
bUcK
|
| 470.15 | | UPWARD::HEISER | when you're sold out, the mark shows | Fri Apr 20 1990 14:57 | 8 |
| Thanks for pointing out that nit Tony. I hope that helped some people
out there. I know it "turned some lights on" for me, especially the
parts dealing with modes.
I cheat to find the relative minor: subtract 2 from the key. For
example, key of G - 2 = E or Em.
Mike
|
| 470.16 | "Thats how............." | DASXPS::MCLEMENT | 2 necks are better than 1 | Fri Apr 20 1990 16:07 | 9 |
|
bUcK,
thank you for the knowledge and
thank you for the complement.
pS: hope the MARSHALL cRAnkS well for you.
mArK *B^)
|
| 470.17 | FYI | UPWARD::HEISER | If Dora Plays Like Me Alls Lost | Tue Apr 24 1990 19:12 | 106 |
| From: [email protected] (Jorma Korkiakoski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
Subject: Re: Modes examples
Date: 23 Apr 90 14:42:19 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki
(Jeff Beck asking 'bout modes)
> A - D - A - E7 - D - A and repeat (standard blues progression)
> 8 4 4 2 2 4 beats, that is
Well...this one is sooo old that it's extremely hard to use
any other scale but pentatonic. If I try, my brain cease to
function and hands begin to tremble until I have to stop.
> or how about this simple one:
> AMaj7 - DMaj7 (can you add some chords here?)
Simple...chords are tonal to Amaj - one possible choice could
be A (Ionian). (IMHO, it's tough to invent exotic scales on
maj7's ... maybe I think too ordinarily ?)
Anyway, I might add even more maj7's here, the result being a
bit impressionistic (is that a proper word?)
Amaj7 - Dmaj7 - Cmaj7 - Fmaj7 - Amaj7
scales: A ------------- C ------------- A --
(= Ionian, from now X = X ionian, Xm = X aiolian)
This one is nice and easy to play with guitar
> F#m - D9 (simple, I wrote it. What do you think about a Dm9 instead?)
F#m(9) - D9 ... I tried these and finally ended up with
these:
- A melodic minor
- E - Em
F#m - Dm9: You could try E - A harmonic minor
or E - F
or E - E phrygian
(or F#m - Dm ... the obvious one)
Note: E phrygian is basically the same as A aiolian. I used
it because I wanted to underline the 9th, (that is, E) maybe
to build up my solo using it as a centre.
Similarly, instead of E - F you could play E - Dm.
> Dm7 - D9+3 (all strings 5th fret) - Cm7 - C9+3 (same but for C) - C9 - D9
For the first four:
- Dm - D dorian - Cm - C dorian
- D dorian - C - C dorian - Bb
- I also tried some blue note scales with Dm9+3, Cm9+3.
(C,Bb)
> D - DMaj7 - D7 - G - Gm - C - D - C - D (wrote this too. pretty simple)
I skip this.
> P.S. Can someone give me an example of a song that was written in a mode?
'Scarborough Fair' ? (D dorian)
(and numerous chorals by J.S.Bach)
WARNING !!!!!
My examples are just mere examples, not truths. I used those
scales when improvising mainly because they were easy to play
with guitar - I'm no axe virtuoso. Had I played sax, (or
piano) the results might have been totally different.
Besides, modes are not so difficult: all modes in a key
consist of the same notes. And if you improvise over one
chord, say, Cmaj7, it doesn't always make a difference
if you happened to use E phrygian or G mixolydian
or C ionian. (only when underlining some particular note)
However, on longer instances (i.e. 1-n verses) modes become
more important.
But, Jeff, again, don't you take the above 'warning' too
seriously, it's just my 'view'. (WARNING #2)
+ +
-+-- -- --- -- --- - --+--+--- ------ --- -- -----+----
--+ [email protected] +--+ University of Helsinki +---
[email protected] -+--+ Department of +--
+ --- - --- + + +--+ Computer Science +-
+ What? Me worry ? + + +--+-- ---------- ------ ---+
+ -------- -- ---------- +-+--- - -
|
| 470.18 | just my opinions... | ICS::BUCKLEY | A Nation Free | Wed Apr 25 1990 08:58 | 37 |
| >> A - D - A - E7 - D - A and repeat (standard blues progression)
>> 8 4 4 2 2 4 beats, that is
> Well...this one is sooo old that it's extremely hard to use
> any other scale but pentatonic. If I try, my brain cease to
> function and hands begin to tremble until I have to stop.
Well, IMO, Mixolydian mode for each chord (A mixo, D mixo, and E mixo)
works well as a substitute for the standard pentatonic scale.
>> F#m - D9 (simple, I wrote it. What do you think about a Dm9 instead?)
> F#m(9) - D9 ... I tried these and finally ended up with
> these:
> - A melodic minor
> - E - Em
A Melodic Minor?!? Isn't that "C", the b3 in Amm, gonna clash with
that C# in your F#m(9) chord? Also, it won't sound too lovely against
the 9 (G#) either (tritone). I'd play either A Ionian, thinking the
chords VI- to IV in A, or analyze them as I to III- in D major.
> F#m - Dm9: You could try E - A harmonic minor
I'd play F# Harmonic minor, with the option to augment the 4th scale
degree if I felt like it.
>> D - DMaj7 - D7 - G - Gm - C - D - C - D (wrote this too. pretty simple)
Gmaj.............Cmaj.....Gmaj.......
* *
> I skip this
Well, it's basically in G major, with a slight flip to C major in
the middle. * = chords acting as intermodulation chords.
|
| 470.19 | | UPWARD::HEISER | trimmed & burnin' | Wed Jul 11 1990 15:14 | 7 |
| Can anyone tell me what relationship a major scale has to the I IV V
chord pattern of a song? I know that the 1 3 5 notes of the scale make
up the I chord. What notes of the scale make up the IV, V chords? Or
do you use a different major scale than the song's key?
Thanks,
Mike
|
| 470.20 | | ICS::BUCKLEY | What would you want with a wabbit? | Wed Jul 11 1990 16:35 | 25 |
| >What notes of the scale make up the IV, V chords?
KEY of C:
C D E F G A B || C D E etc.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8/1 9/2 10/3
1 chord:
C E G
4 chord: F A C
4 6 1
5 chord: G B D
5 7 2
>Or do you use a different major scale than the song's key?
You don't HAVE too...if I'm playing blues though (all dom 7 chords),
I do in fact change the key for each chord, and play, say, C mixo,
F mixo, and G mixo respectively.
Record the chords and try it both ways...I'm sure you'll find pros n
cons for both.
B.
|
| 470.21 | And another thing?? | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Jonathan Livingston Cat Barf.. | Mon Jul 16 1990 16:35 | 17 |
|
Buck, your grasp of theory continues to astonish.. amaze and
entertain... (Happy for you on those Mustang parts, Mike) Ummmm answer
one more while your at it... When I play blues in Am (I guess) it's A,
D and E or Em for chords.. shows you how much I know, right? Amaj (the
scale) plays nicely over the 4 chord.. Howcum... I mean it sounds GREAT
over the four chord in songs where Amaj would sound crappy over even
the one chord?? Am I making myself clear?? Is there a way that I can
expand this little discovery into more cool sounding scales over a 145
12 bar??
Steve
back from a 2 week vacation.. tyhe sun was too how and tyhe lemonade
was too cold!! <sigh> guess nothing's perfect except Clapton's
playings (grin)
|
| 470.22 | A Major/Minor rumblings | ICS::BUCKLEY | Cocked & Loaded! | Mon Jul 16 1990 16:43 | 18 |
| Steve,
If you were playing a Minor Bluez (like Am Dm Em), I'd just play
straight A minor scale (a, b, c, d, e, f , g, a), which comes from the
C major scale (A minor is the relative minor). So, in essence it is
like playing in C major, but from an "a" to an "a". Since those 3
chords (Am, Dm, Em) are all from the key of C major, it should work
nicely.
RE: -1
A major scale works nicely over a D major chord cuz D major is the 4th
chord of the key of A major! It's like a nice lydian thing happening
there. I've not yet played a minor blues with a major 4 chord in there
though, I must admit. If so, just change for that chord
(respectively).
B.
|
| 470.23 | | PNO::HEISER | trimmed & burnin' | Mon Jul 16 1990 18:44 | 6 |
| the scary part is that I'm understanding this stuff now ;-)
My teacher and I are going over minor scales now, including the
harmonic and melodic minor scales.
Mike
|
| 470.24 | | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Jonathan Livingston Cat Barf.. | Tue Jul 17 1990 10:25 | 7 |
|
Well, ummmm, Buck.. I'd be playing A, D and E or Em if I wanted to
add a little tension.. sorry, I shouldn't have descirbed it as Am, I
guess. The Am scale works great over all three chords, but the Amaj
scale sounds awesome over the D.
|
| 470.25 | Right.... | SMURF::BENNETT | | Tue Jul 17 1990 15:53 | 27 |
|
Why Amaj sounds good with D as a IV chord....
Each chord in a key fits one of the modes relative to that key.
Chord Mode (in A)
----- ---- ------
I Ionian(Major) A/Amaj7 A Ionian
ii Dorian Bm/Bm7 B dorian
iii Phrygian C#m C# phrygian
IV Lydian D/Dmaj7/Dadd#11 D Lydian
V Mixolydian E/E7 E Mixolydian
vi Aolian(Minor) F#m F# aolian
vii Locrian G#dim G# locrian
my list of chords under (in A) is by no means exhaustive.
Now that D chord is (D F# A)
The A major scale is (A B C# D E F# G# A)
Like Buck said, by using the combination of the D chord and the
Amaj scale, you are emphasising the D Lydian, the relative lydian
for A.
Chew Nugget: the Lydian mode is the same as a Major scale except
that the 4th degree is sharped. Think "Here's George Jetson".
|
| 470.26 | Always was confused about this one | MILKWY::JMINVILLE | Is he a dot? Or, is he a speck? | Thu Jul 19 1990 13:57 | 13 |
| So, would you want to accent a tonal center of D when playing
the lydian mode over the IV chord (D maj.) in the progression?
Also, if we're playing in the key signature of A major (i.e.
F#, C#, G#), but we're using the tonal center of D is it called
D lydian? Or is it A lydian??
I guess the question is: Does the key of the mode correspond to
the scale pattern (i.e. lydian is whole-step, whole-step,
whole-step, 1/2-step, whole-step, whole-step, 1/2-step)? Or,
to the relative major key signature?
joe.
|
| 470.27 | | ICS::BUCKLEY | Cocked & Loaded! | Thu Jul 19 1990 14:14 | 10 |
| It works backwards, Joe...
Anyways, it's D Lydian (D E F# G# A B C# D)...Lydian is characterized
by it's sharped 4th scale degree. You'd atill be in "A", but just
playing from like 'd' to 'd', youse know?
When playing the blues, just play that fast Gilbert lick I showed you
in F# minor and it'll work fine!! ;^)
B.
|
| 470.28 | Show it! | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Jonathan Livingston Cat Barf.. | Thu Jul 19 1990 17:21 | 8 |
|
Which fast Gilbert Lick?? Paul Gilbert??? C'mon Buck, tab it out
for us, hmmmmmmm??
Steve
|
| 470.29 | Re-posted Buckley/Gilbert lick | ICS::BUCKLEY | Cocked & Loaded! | Fri Jul 20 1990 10:09 | 28 |
| Ok Stevie...here it is for ya (now go home and shred!)
Play this example as fast as possible and be make sure you're throwing
off a lot of attitude when you play this, otherwise its won't sound
right. ;^)
This example is in Em (7th pos, but movable--see designated root note):
* = root note
E
B
G
D * 7 7 9 10 9 7 7
A 7 9 10 10 9 7 9 10 10 9 7 9 10 10 9 7 9 10
E 7 8 10
E
B wfv
G -s- 9 11 12 11 12 11 9 12 9
D 7 9 10 12
A
E
-s- = finger slide on string
wfv = wide finger vibrato (sorry, sometimes its necessary that the
vib. is *at least* a half step pitch modulation)
Have fun...
|
| 470.30 | Secrets Revealed!!! | ICS::BUCKLEY | Cocked & Loaded! | Fri Jul 20 1990 10:13 | 7 |
| PS -- This is the fast lick I play after the 1st chorus on my Fallen
Angel tune (see GUITARnotes Volume I tape for details)!!!
Only everything is up two frets (it's in F# minor)
Buck
|
| 470.31 | | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | Jonathan Livingston Cat Barf.. | Fri Jul 20 1990 11:48 | 10 |
|
Thanks, Buck.. I'm doing a local print so that I can play it (try
to play it).....
Steve
Ingvay my dear chap...
|
| 470.32 | | COOKIE::G_HOUSE | No, I'm very, very shy. | Fri Jul 20 1990 17:18 | 1 |
| Definately time for those Marshalls, Steve!
|
| 470.33 | scales galore | PNO::HEISER | nobody's fault but mine | Wed Jul 25 1990 21:20 | 52 |
| FWIW, here are scale patterns I've been learning the past couple
months. Maybe it will help some of you. Please let me know if you
spot any errors.
Natural Chromatic Major Major
(* = open) (movable) (movable, 2 octaves)
*=*=*=*=*=* *=*=*=*=*=* =========== ===========
o | | | o o 1 1 1 1 1 1 | 1 1 1 | 1 | | 1 1 | |
| o o o | | 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 | | 2 2 | 2 2 | | |
o o o | o o 3 3 3 3 3 3 | | 3 3 | | | | | 3 | |
4 4 4 | 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 | | 4 4 1 1 1
| | 2 |
3 | 3
4 4
Major Major Major Major
(movable) (movable) (movable) (movable)
=========== =========== =========== ===========
1 1 | | | | 1 | | | | 1 1 1 1 | | | | | | 1 | |
| | 1 1 | | | 1 1 1 | | | | | 1 | | 1 1 1 2 1 1
2 2 2 2 1 1 2 2 2 | 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 | | | | 2 |
| | | | | | | | | 3 | | | | | | 2 | 3 3 3 3 | 3
4 4 4 4 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 | 3 4 4 4 4
4 4 4 4
Major Minor Natural Minor Natural Minor
(movable) (movable) (movable) (movable)
=========== =========== =========== ===========
1 1 1 1 1 1 | | | | | | 1 | | | | 1 | | | 1 | |
2 | | | 2 2 | 1 1 1 | | | 1 1 1 | | 1 1 1 2 1 1
| 3 3 3 | | | 2 2 | | | 2 2 2 | 2 2 | | | | 2 |
4 4 4 4 4 | | | | | | | | | 3 | | 3 3 3 3 | 3
4 4 4 | | | 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Harmonic Harmonic Melodic Melodic
Minor Minor Minor Minor
(movable) (movable) (movable) (movable)
=========== =========== =========== ===========
| | | 1 | 1 1 1 1 | 1 1 | | 1 1 | 1 1 | | | | 1
1 1 | 2 2 2 2 | | 2 2 2 1 1 | 2 2 2 | 1 1 1 1 |
| | 2 | 3 | | 3 3 3 | | | | 3 | | | 2 | 2 | 2 2
3 3 4 4 4 | 4 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 4 4 4 | 3 | 3 | |
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Pentatonic Blues
(movable) (movable)
=========== ===========
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
| | | | | | | 2 | | | |
| 3 3 3 | | | 3 3 3 | |
4 4 4 4 4 4 |
|
| 470.34 | building chords from scales | PNO::HEISER | nobody's fault but mine | Wed Jul 25 1990 21:21 | 47 |
| Here are examples of building chords using the notes of the major scale.
In tabular format are the notes, chord name, and example notation using C
major scale as the key. The groups are Major, Minor, Sevenths, Diminished, and
Augmented.
Notes Name Notation
----------- ----------- --------
1 3 5 Major C
1 3 5 6 6th C6
1 3 5 7 Maj 7th Cmaj7
1 3 5 6 9 6th add 9th C6add9
1 5 5th C5
1 3 b5 dim. 5th C-5
1 4 5 sus Csus
1 3 5 7 9 Maj 9th Cmaj9
1 b3 5 minor Cm
1 b3 5 6 m6th Cm6
1 b3 5 b7 m7th Cm7
1 b3 5 7 #m7th Cm#7
1 b3 5 b7 9 m9th Cm9
1 b3 5 6 9 m6th add 9th Cm6add9
1 b3 b5 b7 m7th dim 5th Cm7-5
1 b3 5 7 9 m9th maj 7th Cm9#7
1 b3 5 b7 11 m11th Cm11
1 3 5 b7 7th C7
1 4 5 b7 sus7th C7sus
1 3 #5 b7 7th aug 5th C7+5
1 3 5 b7 9 9th C9
1 3 5 b7 b9 7th min 9th C7-9
1 3 5 b7 #9 7th aug 9th C7(#9)
1 3 #5 b7 b9 7th min 9th aug 5th C7-9+5 (the -9 and +5 is written
as a fraction)
1 3 #5 b7 9 9th aug 5th C9+5
1 3 b5 b7 9 9th dim 5th C9-5
1 3 5 b7 9 #11 9th aug 11th C9(#11)
1 5 b7 9 11 11th C11
1 3 5 b7 9 13 13th C13 (takeout the 9th and you have
a C7add6)
1 3 5 b7 b9 13 13th min 9th C13-9
1 3 b5 b7 b9 13 13th min 9th dim 5th C13-9-5 (the -9 and -5 is written
as a fraction)
1 3 b5 b7 7th dim 5th C7-5
1 3 #5 augmented C+
1 b3 b5 6 diminished C� or Cdim
|
| 470.35 | modes | PNO::HEISER | nobody's fault but mine | Wed Jul 25 1990 21:37 | 14 |
| I have a question on modes. From what I know:
Ionian = Major Scale
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Myxolydian
Aeolian = Minor Scale
Locrian
Are there labels that can be applied to the others?
Thanks,
Mike
|
| 470.36 | ROUGH guesses | ICS::BUCKLEY | What's up, Doc? | Thu Jul 26 1990 10:14 | 10 |
| >I have a question on modes. From what I know:
>
>Ionian = Major Scale
>Dorian - MInor 7th scale?
>Phrygian - ?
>Lydian - Major, #11?
>Myxolydian - Major, flatted 7th?
>Aeolian = Minor Scale
>Locrian - Half-diminished scale?
|
| 470.37 | Why bother with #1...it's too weird anyways | ICS::BUCKLEY | What's up, Doc? | Thu Jul 26 1990 10:21 | 32 |
| Question...why do you have the following TWO VERSIONS listed?
Fingering #1:
Major
(movable, 2 octaves)
===========
| | 1 1 | |
| 2 2 | | |
| | | 3 | |
| 4 4 1 1 1
| | 2 |
3 | 3
4 4
Fingering #2:
Major
(movable)
===========
1 1 1 | | |
| | | 1 | |
2 2 2 2 1 1
| | | | 2 |
4 4 4 4 | 3
4 4
They're both the same scale, but Figering #1 is a very poor choice of
fingerings IMHO...I'd just stick with #2 for anything in that area.
I'll shaddup now.
Buck
|
| 470.38 | | UPWARD::HEISER | nobody's fault but mine | Thu Jul 26 1990 13:37 | 17 |
| Fingering #1:
Major
(movable, 2 octaves)
=========== This is useful for showing a student a major
| | 1 1 | | scale that works off an A form barre chord.
| 2 2 | | | I also thought the 1-3-1-3 sequence on the
| | | 3 | | G string is good for dexterity in students.
| 4 4 1 1 1 I'm not sure why they are the same scale
| | 2 | since the finger patterns are different and
3 | 3 this one covers 1 more fret than the other.
4 4
BTW - the above version is the way I originally entered it. Buck's
version in -1 is a little different.
Mike
|
| 470.39 | | ICS::BUCKLEY | What's up, Doc? | Thu Jul 26 1990 14:58 | 8 |
| Oooops, so I messed up the transfer of the scale fingerings a
bit...sorry! Anyways, they are the same scale, but I still kinda think
the first finegring would just tend to confuse. I like sticking with
the basic 6 major scale fingerings (in position)...they;re eaasy to
remember and much easier to derrive other scale alterations (like
melodic minor) from them.
Buck, who'll really just shaddup now
|
| 470.40 | Scale names.. <hack disclaimer> | SMURF::BENNETT | Pigbot: porcine avenging machine | Thu Jul 26 1990 15:41 | 18 |
|
Mr. Buckley's hot on the trail...
I've seen the following names paired up:
Dorian Minor 7 scale
Phrygian `Spanish Minor' (gag)
Mixolydian Dominant 7 scale
Half Diminished fits Locrian. I think of Lydian as the
"George Jetson scale"
Thanks for .34, Mike. Most Excellent. As for the scale forms,
there's a dozen of `em in last September's GP that I use to
derive everythig else from. They keep me in position.
|
| 470.41 | | UPWARD::HEISER | nobody's fault but mine | Thu Jul 26 1990 16:03 | 11 |
| > Thanks for .34, Mike. Most Excellent. As for the scale forms,
> there's a dozen of `em in last September's GP that I use to
> derive everythig else from. They keep me in position.
No problem! My current teacher has done wonders for my knowledge of
theory. Best $26 I've invested!
I see if I can back order that issue, I'm open to new ideas and
better/easier ways of playing scale forms.
Mike
|
| 470.42 | OK, beginning in Cmaj.... | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | OK...Who turned on the lights? | Fri Jul 27 1990 12:59 | 11 |
|
Buck??? SIX major scale fingerings??? Howcum not 12??? which
ones are they....?? Not the flats??? I'd love to see (but I realize
that tabbing them out is a bear) the six major scale fingerings that
you use...
Regards,
Steve
|
| 470.43 | | ICS::BUCKLEY | What's up, Doc? | Fri Jul 27 1990 13:09 | 11 |
| AT Berklee they taught SIX...all two octaves...3 of them with root
notes on the 6th (e) strings and 3 of them with roots on the 5th (a)
string!
They work really well, and it you wanna get nit picky, you can
formulate fingerings for "all the scales in between", but you really
don't have too! For position playing, these six forms cover a lot
of ground and go a long way.
Why play more?
B.
|
| 470.44 | | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | OK...Who turned on the lights? | Fri Jul 27 1990 13:11 | 5 |
|
Yo, Buck, we're like interactive, dude!!! Take a look at those old
date codes!!! [;^)
|
| 470.45 | .43 | SMURF::BENNETT | Pigbot: porcine avenging machine | Fri Jul 27 1990 13:18 | 7 |
|
Enquiring minds...
Can you see your way clear to either tabbing those fingerings out
and posting them OR or naming the roots in some position and
giving the heuristics (the reach rules)?
|
| 470.47 | Notes on the Berklee Six-Pack | ICS::BUCKLEY | What's up, Doc? | Fri Jul 27 1990 14:11 | 17 |
| As you may notice, there are 3 sets of scales...
o 4th finger roots
o 2nd finger roots
o 1st finger roots
...on the 6th and 5th strings respectively!
I said they were two octave scale...well, as you'll notice the scales
from the 5th string root are only ONE octave from the root note,
HOWEVER, these forms were meant to be used for MODAL playing...ie,
you could get 2 scale forms of EACH mode in two octaves from these
six fingerings! You can get 3 different fingerings for the modes
Mixo, Aeolian, and locrian!
Just some clarification on the fingerings...
Buck
|
| 470.48 | | UPWARD::HEISER | nobody's fault but mine | Fri Jul 27 1990 15:48 | 9 |
| E Phrygian uses C Major scale right?
Using Whole-Whole-Half-Whole-Whole-Whole-Half it would be...
E F# G# A B C# D# E
Is this right?
Mike
|
| 470.49 | E Phrygian.... | SMURF::BENNETT | Pigbot: porcine avenging machine | Fri Jul 27 1990 18:19 | 10 |
|
Uses C maj:
E F G A B C D E
that's 1/2, 1, 1, 1, 1/2, 1, 1
The one you posted is E maj.
BTW Buck - thanks for the posting....
|
| 470.50 | | PNO::HEISER | nobody's fault but mine | Fri Jul 27 1990 19:12 | 16 |
| Okay, so that means that...
Ionian = 1, 1, �, 1, 1, 1, �
Dorian = 1, �, 1, 1, 1, �, 1
Phrygian = �, 1, 1, 1, �, 1, 1
Lydian = 1, 1, 1, �, 1, 1, �
Myxolodian = 1, 1, �, 1, 1, �, 1
Aeolian = 1, �, 1, 1, �, 1, 1
Locrian = �, 1, 1, �, 1, 1, 1
right? Looks like that � step cycles itself thru each mode rather
nicely ;-)
Now to just translate this to the fret board ;-)
Mike
|
| 470.51 | | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | OK...Who turned on the lights? | Mon Jul 30 1990 08:48 | 6 |
|
Yeah, Buck, thanks.. I copied the "six-pack" and I'm going to try
them tonite... This mode stuff is just playing 7 tones but starting on
progressively higher notes of the given major scale, right?
|
| 470.52 | .50 .51
| SMURF::BENNETT | This is your brain on Steve Morse | Mon Jul 30 1990 13:28 | 8 |
|
Bingo.
And Mike: take one mode a day (Sunday:Ionian, Monday:Dorian) and
you'll have the fingering nailed in less than 90 days.
The fun part about modes is the way they are tied to the chords.
|
| 470.54 | I like it!! | DNEAST::GREVE_STEVE | OK...Who turned on the lights? | Wed Aug 01 1990 16:42 | 32 |
|
Hey, Buck, I just spent a whole practice session with these 6
scales and I guess I already knew 5 of them.. but the sixth one is just
"tickling me". Small things for small minds.. huh.. here's the one I
like
|
V
=========== ===========
*1 1 | | | 1 1*1 1 | | |
| | 1 1 | | | | | 1 | |
2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1
| | | | | | | | | | 2 |
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 | 3
4 4
Using all these scales covers the next pretty well and my favorite
one makes the connection/transition between one set of three and the
other....... I learned these in G-maj and the one that's left our
would be E... Is that what Berklee's trying to do... simplify the
scale while giving wide coverage to all the notes on the neck???
Steve
|
| 470.55 | | ICS::BUCKLEY | I Wanna Be Your Man! | Wed Aug 01 1990 16:44 | 8 |
| -1
Yeah, guess so.
My last teacher, chop-meister Darren Housholder said to forget all
those patterns and play the notes of the scale/mode/apr. instead.
That's where he was comming from...thinking notes! Whatever works
I guess.
|
| 470.56 | | UPWARD::HEISER | gimme that phone! | Mon Aug 06 1990 19:36 | 16 |
| more stuff as I continue to digest notes from summer music camp ;-)
Chords of the Major Scale
-------------------------
I ii iii IV V vi vii (augmented)
tonic super mediant sub dominant sub leading
tonic dominant mediant tone
Key of Bb =
Bb Cm Dm Eb F Gm A�
Key of Bbmaj7 =
Bbmaj7 Cm7 Dm7 Ebmaj7 F7 Gm7 A�7 or Am7(b5)
Mike
|
| 470.57 | | PNO::HEISER | let's get busy! | Wed Oct 31 1990 17:29 | 4 |
| Never mind on the Berklee 6 Pack. I found it in .47 and added a
keyword for it (Berklee).
Mike
|
| 470.61 | | UPWARD::HEISER | two bodies, 1 mind, 1 soul | Thu Nov 01 1990 15:53 | 7 |
| Re: Berklee 6 Pack again
Do they have anything like this for minor scales or any other kind of
scales?
Thanks,
Mike
|
| 470.46 | The Berklee Six-Pack | ICS::BUCKLEY | Midnite Dynamite! | Thu Nov 01 1990 16:05 | 26 |
| 6th string 5th string
* = Root note
=========== ===========
| | | | | | 1 1 1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1 1 1 2 | | | 2 2
| | | | 2 | | 3 3 3 | |
3 3 3 3 | 3 4*4 4 | 4 4
*4 4 | | 4 4
4
=========== ===========
| | | | | | 1 | | | | 1
1 1 1 1 | 1 | 1 1 1 | |
*2 2 | | 2 2 2*2 2 | 2 2
| | 3 3 | | | | | 3 | |
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
=========== ===========
*1 1 | | | 1 1*1 1 | | |
| | 1 1 | | | | | 1 | |
2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1
| | | | | | | | | | 2 |
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 | 3
4 4
|
| 470.62 | | ICS::BUCKLEY | Midnite Dynamite! | Thu Nov 01 1990 16:12 | 23 |
|
I went back and fixed that error, re-entered the six-pack note, and
nuked your reply so people wouldn't get confused.
>Re: Berklee 6 Pack again
>
>Do they have anything like this for minor scales or any other kind of
>scales?
Well, Berklee sez to just use those fingerings for the basis for ALL
your scale needs (that is what is so cool about the six fingerings).
Like, you want Melodic Minor? Flat the 3rd scale degree on all the
forms...bingo! You want Dorian...flat the 3rd and 7th...etc.
Basically, they taught these six finegrings, and then the theory behind
all other scales...so you can alter them to whatever you need, Ya know?
Harmonic minor? Flat the 3 and 6th of each scale!
So, to answer your question, no, they don't have forms like this for
minor scales. For one, natural minor (aeolian mode), can be found
right from those existing forms! And, as stated above, any other minor
meandering you need, you just make the alterations!
|
| 470.63 | this isn't working | PNO::HEISER | GTS � - $billions$ served! | Wed Nov 21 1990 13:09 | 12 |
| More chord/scale questions here (yes again!):
I've been working on trying to hear various chord changes. I took a
hymnal (only music book I have with key signatures and no chords) I
tried to work some stuff out.
I always thought the notes in the scale followed the chords in the
scale (i.e., I IIm IIIm IV V VIm VII�), but it doesn't look that way.
Is there any relationship between the x note of a scale and the same x
chord of the same scale?
Mike
|
| 470.64 | | PNO::HEISER | GTS � - $billions$ served! | Wed Nov 21 1990 17:27 | 7 |
| I guess some are confused by my question in -1. What I'm trying to ask
is, can you look to the notes of the scale to dictate the chord
changes? If so, what note of the scale (i.e., roman numeral) would
dictate what chord change (i.e., minor, major, seventh, diminished)?
Thanks,
Mike
|
| 470.65 | Still confused | IOSG::CREASY | Goodnight out there... whatever you are | Fri Nov 23 1990 08:59 | 21 |
| Mike,
I still don't understand what the question is. Any note of a scale is
going to sound okay over a chord that is diatonic to that scale (of
course, some sound better than others, depending on your taste...). You
listed the triads that are diatonic to the major scale in .63. If you
expand them to 7ths they become:
Imaj7 iim7 iiim7 IVmaj7 V7 vim7 viim7b5
By playing scale tones over any of those chords (or putting any of
those chords under scale tones) you're implying an extended chord (or
doubling one of the notes already in the chord).
So if your question is "if my melody line goes to the 3rd note of the
scale, which chord should I put underneath it?" then the answer is
"whichever chord you want".
Are we both confused now? :^)
Nick
|
| 470.66 | not as simple as that | RANGER::WEBER | | Mon Nov 26 1990 08:23 | 22 |
| The harmonized scale has each note of the scale become the
*root* of a triad which consists of scale tones only. The notes of a
real melody line, however, are not necessarily the root--in fact, they
can be any chord or non-chord degree. And a real melody is not
constrained to one scale or one key.
So, if you have the note E in a Cmajor melody, it might be the root of
an Em, the 3rd of a Cmaj, the 5th of an Am, the 6th of a G6, the 7th of
an Fma7, or even a non-chord passing tone. It could also be the tonic
of a modulation to E.
Any melody line can be harmonized in dozens of ways; the harmonized
scale is just one tool of many that are used. The most important tool
is ear training. At the very least, learn to hear: I, IIm, II7, IV,
V7,VIm, and VI7 changes; common modulations (up a 4th or a b3rd) and;
patterns (cycle of 4ths/5ths, IIm-V7, cadences, turnarounds). It is
extremely useful to know which interval of any chord is formed by any
note; this way, you can quickly find the most likely harmonies.
Danny W.
|
| 470.67 | might as well do this right ;-) | PNO::HEISER | Smaq Iraq | Wed Jan 30 1991 14:31 | 18 |
| Re: Berklee 6 pack again
So far I know:
Melodic Minor - b3 scale degree(s)
Dorian - b3 b7 " "
Harmonic Minor - b3 b6 " "
What about these modes? Which degree(s) is/are altered?
Phrygian -
Lydian -
Myxolodian -
Aeolian (natural minor) -
Locrian -
Thanks,
Mike
|
| 470.69 | 69 Dudes!!! | CAVLRY::BUCK | Love's not safe | Wed Jan 30 1991 14:45 | 1 |
|
|
| 470.70 | nuther | CAVLRY::BUCK | Love's not safe | Wed Jan 30 1991 14:46 | 2 |
|
Blackmore's "snake charmer" -- b3, #4, b6
|
| 470.68 | Here ya go... | CAVLRY::BUCK | Love's not safe | Wed Jan 30 1991 14:47 | 12 |
|
>What about these modes? Which degree(s) is/are altered?
scale degree(s)
Phrygian - b2, b3, b6, b7
Lydian - #4
Myxolodian - b7
Aeolian (natural minor) - b3, b6, b7
Locrian - b2, b3, b5, b6, b7
|
| 470.71 | When you hear that curtain call "It's Showtime!!" | BOSOX::PLAFOND | Exotic Scales for $500!! | Fri Feb 01 1991 10:23 | 1 |
| Oh Ya! Gypsy Minor very Kule ;^)
|
| 470.72 | Kings of the Pentatonic | PNO::HEISER | welcome to the TONE ZONE | Wed Feb 20 1991 16:54 | 79 |
| I thought a reply on common licks and runs would be nice. I'm sure if
you go thru this, you'll hear licks familiar to your recordings.
Refer to earlier notes on the Pentatonic Minor scale for fingerings (if
you don't already know it). Let's use the key of Am, for simplicity's
sake, at the 5th fret.
- To build up your chops, try playing the notes in groups of 4.
Ascending and Descending.
- Play the scale in groups of 3, ascending and descending. You may
recognize this riff from Jimmy Page's "Good Times, Bad Times", Jimi
Hendrix' "Bold as Love", Angus Young "Back in Black", and even in some
work by Johnny Winter and Joe Pass.
Here are 4 rock clich�s which you can use a building blocks:
b = full bend, p = pull-off, h = hammer, s = slide, ~ = vibrato
E-8p5---8p5---8p5---8p5-- E-5-----5-----5-----5----
B-----5-----5-----5-----5 B---8p5---8p5---8p5---8p5
E----5----5----5----5---- E------------------------
B---5----5----5----5----- B------------------------
G-7b---7b---7b---7b------ G-7b-(7)p5----7b-(7)p5---
D------------------------ D----------7-----------7-
You can combine these to create an infinite number of riffs in the
styles of all the great players. For example:
Jeff Beck Eric Clapton
E----5--------5--------5- E-----8-------------------
B---5--8p5---5--8p5---5-- B----8--11p8----8--------------
G-7b-------7b-------7b--- G-10b--------10---10b-(10)p8----10-8------
D------------------------ D----------------------------10------10p8-10~
Jimi Hendrix Johnny Winter
E-10p7--10p7--7--------7---- E----5-----8-5h8p5---5------
B-----7-----7---10p7--7--10b~ B---5--8p5---------8---5----
G-------------------9b----- G-7b---------------------7-5~
D------------------------ D------------------------
A------------------------ A------------------------
E------------------------ E------------------------
Here's another fingering for A Pentatonic Minor and a Claptonesque
application:
Eric Clapton
E----------------------8-10-12 E-10b-8----------------------
B------------------8-10----- B------10-8-----------------
G-------------5-7-9--------- G----------9s7-5-------------
D---------5-7-------------- D---------------7-5--------
A---3-5-7------------------- A------------------7s5-3-5--3�b-
E-5----------------------- E--------------------------5
Here's yet another fingering for A Pentatonic Minor and a Hendrix
application:
E---------------------12-15-17 E-15b-15-12h15p12---12------------------
B----------------13-15----- B----------------15----15b-13------
G-----------12-14------------ G----------------------------14~
D---10-12-14----------------- D-----------------------------
A-12----------------------- A-----------------------------
Adding the b5 to the Pentatonic Minor creates the blues scale and
increases the number of possible riffs. Check these applications:
Jimi Hendrix Yngwie Malmsteen
E-7----7---------7------- E------------------------
B--10b~--10-7---7-10-7-------- B---8-11p8--8------------------
G-------------9b------10-9-7-- G-10------11--11p10p8--10p8-----
D---------------------------9 D--------------------10-----10p8
A------------------------ A--------------------------------10
Johnny Winter Eddie Van Halen
E-3-------------------- E-7-------7--------------
B--6p3--3-6-------------- B--10p7----7--------7----
G------6----6p5p3-5-3~--- G-------10--10p9p7-9--7b~
See how many of these you can pick up out of your album collection!
Mike
|
| 470.73 | | RAVEN1::BLAIR | Blues mints cure Heavy Metal breath | Thu Feb 21 1991 10:56 | 4 |
|
Thanks for the clapton/hendrix/winter licks, Mikey.
-pat
|
| 470.74 | Chord progressions for modal playing | UPWARD::HEISER | welcome to the TONE ZONE | Wed Feb 27 1991 13:33 | 42 |
| How about some rhythms/chord progressions for modal playing? These are
great for those that love to noodle around with scales. Put these
progressions on tape and play over the top of them. Try to play the
melody that comes to your head and be sure to sing along as you play.
Your brain is a master instrument (i.e., always on key and on beat), so
singing what comes to your mind will help you create some nice melodies.
Here are some examples using A with the key in (). BTW - The A Dorian
progression sounds pretty cool. I used it, with a slight variation, last
night to write a song. I'm pretty proud of the results!
A Ionian (A) A Dorian (G)
------------ ------------
A E D A C G D C
E--------------------- E---------------------
B---5---5---3---2----- B---5---3---3---1-----
G---6---4---2---2----- G---5---4---2---0-----
D---7---6---4---2----- D---5---5---4---2-----
A-0---0---0---0------- A-0---0---0---0-------
E--------------------- E---------------------
A Phrygian (F) A Lydian (E)
-------------- ------------
C Bb A B Bsus B
E--------------------- E---------------------
B---5---3------------- B---2---4---5----4-----
G---5---3------------- G---2---4---4----4-----
D---5---3------------- D---2---4---4----4-----
A-0---0--------------- A-0---0---0---0-------
E--------------------- E---------------------
A Mixolydian (D) A Aeolian (C)
---------------- -------------
A D G D� A� C G F G� C�
E--------------------- E---------------------
B---2---3---3---3---5- B---5---3---1---3---1-
G---2---2---4---2---6- G---5---4---2---4---0-
D---2---4---5---4---7- D---5---5---3---5---2-
A-0---0---0---0---0--- A-0---0---0---0---0---
E--------------------- E---------------------
� = Play this the first time thru.
� = " " " second " "
|
| 470.75 | | ASDS::NIXON | | Tue Mar 05 1991 22:04 | 23 |
| Have a question about a particular scale - have been noodling with it
for a while, but haven't a clue as to what it "really" (read:
proper theory title) is...Perhaps someone can help.
Here it is:
E---| | | | | | | | 1 2 |
B---| | | | | | | 1 | 3 |
G---| | | | | 1 2 | 4 | |
D---| | | | 1 | 3 | | | |
A---| | | 1 2 | 4 | | | |
E---| | 1 | 3 | | | | | |
^
root
I didn't put in any fret #'s, because it's a moveable scale, any
key will do. For simplicity's sake, let's say the root is A...
It's just shy of the blues scale, but C# messes me up.
Help, por favor?
|
| 470.76 | (^; happy happy scales ;^) | CAVLRY::BUCK | April is Coaster Mania month!!! | Tue Mar 05 1991 22:20 | 9 |
| -1
Why, you have a crude, but workable Mixolydian scale there (a repeating
pattern of b7, 1, 3, 4, 5 ... repeat). It's weird, it's *almost* a
maveable major pentatonic scale, but the notes would be 6, 1, 2, 3, 5.
You have b7 instead of 6, and 4 instead of 2, which means nothing, of
course! ;^)
Have fun...Mixolydian is Merry!
|
| 470.77 | now get to bed! ;^) | ASDS::NIXON | | Tue Mar 05 1991 23:17 | 11 |
| Jeez, I thought I was the only one sick enough to be logged in at 10:00
(well, 11:nn now)
I figured it was one of those easy permutations of the reg'lar ol'
major, what with the flats and all.
Buck, dammit, you've come through again. You've been granted 3
wishes.
thanks, dood!
|
| 470.78 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | April is Coaster Mania month!!! | Wed Mar 06 1991 07:43 | 5 |
| Thanks...
Wish #1) To play guitar like Le Tekro
Wish #2) To own Marshall Amplification
Wish #3) 3 more wishes... ;^)
|
| 470.79 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Stick it to ya! | Wed Mar 13 1991 08:41 | 7 |
|
Anybody fill me in on the use of modes within the Harmonic Minor scale.
Surely modes can be constructed from the above scale and from other
scales such as Indian scales or melodic minor ?
Any info appreciated.
|
| 470.80 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | April is Coaster Mania month!!! | Wed Mar 13 1991 09:17 | 7 |
| Tart,
WHile I've never really dealt with this (I usually think of playing
Harmonic minor as it relates to the I-minor and V-major chords), but
I guess the most common mode would be the Hyper-Harmonic Minor mode,
where the "root" would be the 5th degree. Note, enever refer to this
as Mixolydian Harmonic minor, that is incorrect.
|
| 470.81 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Stick it to ya! | Thu Mar 14 1991 07:35 | 11 |
|
'Hyper Harmonic Minor' ? Sounds like somthing out of star wars!
>> Note, enever refer to this as Mixolydian Harmonic minor, that is
>> incorrect.
Is there such a thing as Mixolydian Harmonic Minor ? I realise that
Mixolydian has a major tonality and the 'natural' harmonic minor, as
the name suggests, is minor, but can these scales be bastardised ?
-Tony
|
| 470.82 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | April is Coaster Mania month!!! | Thu Mar 14 1991 09:03 | 3 |
| No, but all the Hyper modes are the "5th mode" of "x" scale.
Mixolydian is the 5th mode of Ionian, so I didn't want you to
mix the two up.
|
| 470.83 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Stick it to ya! | Thu Mar 14 1991 09:06 | 2 |
|
Thanks 8)
|
| 470.84 | OK Buck.... | SMURF::BENNETT | I'd rather be flailing | Thu Mar 14 1991 12:58 | 5 |
|
What would you call a scale that started on the third
degree of a harmonic minor scale?
|
| 470.85 | -1 | CAVLRY::BUCK | April is Coaster Mania month!!! | Thu Mar 14 1991 13:01 | 1 |
| I donno, how bout Louise?
|
| 470.86 | | GOOROO::CLARK | a high, lonesome sound | Thu Mar 14 1991 13:04 | 6 |
| re .84
major scale with a raised 5th? Notice how you can play a
Cmaj7#5 over an A harmonic minor scale.
- Dave
|
| 470.87 | | SMURF::BENNETT | I'd rather be flailing | Thu Mar 14 1991 13:35 | 4 |
|
Thanks Buck, thanks Dave. I feel like Alice in Wonderland with
this stuff sometimes. A Major scale with a #4 gets a special
name (Lydian) while a major scale with a #5 don't....
|
| 470.88 | harmonic minor modes | ZEMI::HEISER | trademark tones | Wed Apr 17 1991 14:44 | 6 |
| There's been a lot of talk on the Usenet lately about Harmonic Minor
scale modes and how eastern hemisphere ethnic scales are derived from
them. Just so I get the correct info ( ;-) ), does anyone in here know
these modes and how to construct ethnic scales (i.e., Hindu scale)?
Mike
|