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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

349.0. "Questions, Questions!" by FOO::BHAVNANI (The dome is unclimbable.) Tue Sep 29 1987 00:34

	Does anyone know where I can get my EH MicroSynth fixed?  The
	unit  does  nothing on power-up (LED doesn't light, no signal
	at output).   I bought this box in the winter of 1980 when EH
	was  (how  was  I  to know!?) going out of business and would
	love to have it working again.

	Glad  to  know that people haven't got badly burned by PAIA's
	Noise  Gator.   I've  just ordered it and am dying to try out
	that  slow  attack.    Anyone  know  if somebody else makes a
	better quality attack-delay unit?

	Also,  do  you  know  of  any  digital  fuzzes?  I have a MXR
	Distortion+  which when seriesed with my Ibanez Sustain (made
	in the days of mechanical footswitches, but very, very quiet)
	does a pretty nice job.

	Can  you recommend a shop that will rechrome my axe?  It's a
	late 60's VOX VG2 (beautiful guitar, old but I swear by it!)
	and  I was told that it wouldn't be worth it to rechrome it.
	Also,  is there a cheap alternative to buying a Strat to get
	Mark Knopfler's sound?  Good used sources, perhaps?

	Would  anyone  care  to comment on a  good phase shifter?  I
	have  an  EH  Small Stone that's nice but noisy.  Most of my
	gear  is  old  (I'm told I was the first kid on the block in
	Bombay  to own a wahwah - the year was 1970, Ten Years After
	was  in  and  the FuzzFace was making my parents throw up...
	...but I'm reminiscing again).

	Tnx  in  advance  for your replies.  It's so *good* to be in
	touch with the crowd from the smoky green rooms.  Anyone out
	there who's into CSNY, Simon&Garf, JT kind of stuff?

	/ravi [hopelessly lost in the 70s]
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349.1Probably the Power SupplyAQUA::ROSTFast and bulbous, tight alsoTue Sep 29 1987 09:4416
    
    If the LED doesn't even come on, I would suspect the power supply,
    which *might* be easy to fix.
    
    As for the Gator, if you like the attack delay of the Micro-Synth
    you will hate the Gator, the sweep is more exponential (they use
    a charging capacitor to fire off a comparator) and I found it pretty
    unusable as a n attack delay but a decent noise gate for the price.
    
    Beware, the output stage of that thing is weird; I don't know enough
    about audio circuits but it will not drive certain types of inputs
    (i.e. you get no output if the next stage is not coupled correctly).
     The manual gives a brief warning about this, something about keeping
    the cost down.  Oh well, you pays your money.
                                              
    
349.2Plating and such...JAWS::COTESpecial Delivery for Hoops McCann...Tue Sep 29 1987 14:0824
    Re-chromed? Like in plated???
    
    If you're in the Central Mass area there is a place on Plantation
    St. in Worcester called Garieppy (sp?) Platers that will take on
    small jobs. Make *sure* you specify you want 'triple plating', that
    is chrome over nickle over copper. Chrome on bare metal will flake
    faster than you can mount the parts it was on. Many places will
    also leave the parts in the chrome solution longer in order to
    deposit a heavier layer of chrome. This is goodness.
    
    Assumably your parts are already plated and are pitted. If you can
    get them back between the stripping and plating processes, buff
    them out yourself on a good cloth wheel. The quality of the plating
    is directly dependent on the prep.
    
    I couldn't guess at the price, but as a reference I had an 18" over
    springer (motorcycle front end) done for less than $100 and it was
    gorgeous....
    
    You might also try your local auto speed shop or chopper shop. They've
    always got a line on custom plating. Ever see *black chrome*?
    Oooooo....
    
    Edd
349.3About digital distortion.JRDV02::OOIJoy to the worldTue Sep 29 1987 21:2610
>	Also,  do  you  know  of  any  digital  fuzzes?  I have a MXR
>	Distortion+  which when seriesed with my Ibanez Sustain (made
>	in the days of mechanical footswitches, but very, very quiet)
>	does a pretty nice job.
 
It is sold by YAMAHA in Japan,but I'm not sure in the U.S.
It has digital distortion,and digital delay funtion.
I'm not sure but,it may cost about $400.

				Hitoshi.
349.4InfoFOO::BHAVNANIThe dome is unclimbable.Thu Oct 01 1987 00:4513
	Tnx for the replies, guys!  I was hoping to find a guitar store
	near  Boston that would rechrome my axe.  Worst comes to worst,
	I'll  take  her down to Sam Ash or Manny's, though the folks on
	48th. Street  can charge a pretty penny for this sort of thing!

	As for the effects, I guess I have to wait and see how the PAIA
	box  works.   I wasn't expecting too much, but for $30 (approx)
	it  sounds like a decent deal.  I recall reading somewhere that
	you  can  buy  your  own  quieter  chips,  low noise resistors,
	tantalum caps, etc. to make the PAIA boxes quieter.   Does any-
	one have a replacement parts list for the Gator?

	/ravi
349.5KnopflerFNYADG::PELLATTWed Oct 07 1987 04:497
    Reference .0, I think Mark Knopfler uses a "Telecaster" on his
    most 'knopflerish' tracks...with a touch of compression and chorus.
    
    On some of his more recent stuff I believe he's used Charvels but
    I'm not sure - does anyone else know ?
    
    Cheers, Dave.
349.6A few answersTWOMCH::IBBETTB/OIS Performance GroupFri Oct 09 1987 09:2453
    The 'Knopfler sound' or so-called 'out-of-phase Strat' was discovered
    many years ago by Strat owners who discovered that the old-style
    3-position pickup selector would produce this sound when 'wedged'
    into the between-middle-and-lead pickup position. The 3-position
    was only relly 'designed' to allow selection of 1 of the 3 pickups
    at a time. Wedging it in between positions 1 & 2 or 2 & 3 resulted
    in a mix of the bridge/middle or middle/neck pickups, which gave
    the unique sound. It was called 'out-of-phase' -- purely because
    of the *sound*; the pickups are NOT, however, electrically connected
    out-of phase. Wiring them that way results in sound cancellation
    (I tried it once). This sound was popular enough that Fender introduced
    a true 5-position switch (i.e. added 2 more detents).
    
    My theory as to how this sound is generated is that the 2 pickups
    are so spaced apart as to 'see' different phases of the note's waveform
    at the same time (i.e. 2 slightly out-of-phase signals).
    
    My '72 strat is now modified in that I now have 3 separate mini-toggle
    switches replacing the 5-pos knife switch. This gives me 2 extra
    sounds as follows:-
    
    neck  middle  bridge
     1      0       0
     0      1       0
     0      0       1
     1      1       0		warm out-of phase
     0      1       1		typical 'knopfler' out-of phase
     1      0       1	new	Telecaster sound
     1      1       1	new	very warm out-of-phase

    Note that the last setting produces an out-of-phase sound, i.e.
    it seems that the sound is produced when adjacent pickups are selected.
    The 1-0-1 setting does not produce it, but very closely mimics a
    Tele sound -- the neck-to-bridge spacing may not be exactly the
    same a a real Tele (?).
    
    So (back to the question), the sound is [in my view] intrinsic to
    a Strat...or a good copy.
    
    Knopfler originally used Fenders, but more recently has Schecter
    make him 'custom' Strats. His other (numerous) axes include a National
    Steel (e.g. on Romeo & Juliet), a Les Paul (Money for Nothing, Brothers
    in Arms) and a Tele (Walk of Life).
    
    My personal 'Knopfler sound' setup is the Strat (middle/bridge pickups)
    into a Boss Compress/Sustain into a Pro Reverb. I slightly overdrive
    the Compressor (8 or 9 on the axe), the sustain is flat out (full),
    and the compressor is set to give me a slight bite/clunk sound.
    It's the closest I can get to emulating his stacato (sp?) finger-pick
    sound as I use a pick. One day I'll sit down and learn to
    finger-pick...
    
    Jimi.
349.7CSC32::J_KALINOWSKIForget NAM?....NEVER!Wed Feb 12 1997 09:4511
    
       O.K....so how do I amplify a piano? A mid-size grand to be exact.
    I tried regular microphones placed in various places and even tried
    a special mike used as a pickup on my daughters violin, but I always
    get a funny kind of echo that sounds tinny. Does a piano require a
    pickup like on a guitar? When my daughter and I jam together, we like
    to try and break windows (^; but I really need to get rid of this weird
    echo/tin can effect. If it makes any difference, I am plugging into
    a solid state 25 watt fender amp.
    
    -john
349.8PZM micsMILKWY::JACQUESWed Feb 12 1997 11:3842
    
    	The Commusic folks can provide the best answer, however I'll
    take a shot. 

    	The best way that I know of to amplify an acoustic piano is
    with PZM mics. PZM's (pressure zone mics) are similar to condensor
    mics. They were developed by Crown. Crown sells a few differant 
    versions of the mic as well as the power supply needed to run
    them. A PZM consists of a condensor element mounted to a square
    steel plate with a small opening to allow the sound pressure in.
    PZM's can be mounted to a wall, or any large flat panel to amplify
    the sound in a given room. They can also be mounted to the inside
    of a piano cabinet. I would recommend you use 2 or more to get a 
    well balanced tone from the piano. There are several "sweet spots" 
    inside of a piano and I think you want to place a mic in 2 or more 
    spots. You would need to experiment with mic placement to get the
    best combination.
    
    Crown PZM's are quite expensive. A PZM mic with power supply would
    probably set you back $300 or more. If you multiply this times 2 or
    more, it get's expensive real quick.  A cheap alternative is to 
    buy PZM mics from Radio Shack. My understanding is that Crown sells
    PZM elements to RS which do not meet their tight specs. The biggest
    differance between the RS and Crown units is the power supply. The
    RS unit has a cheap battery powered unit with 1/4" (unbalanced)
    cable. The Crown offers a few differant units, some of which are
    AC powered, and all have balanced XLR cables. There is a simple
    mod that can be done to a Radio Shack PZM that will improve the
    performance considerably. Last time I checked Radio Shack PZM's 
    will selling for $45.00. This is a fraction of the cost of the 
    Crown PZM. If your're handy, you could built a dual power supply
    to handle 2 PZMs and have a pretty good combinations for under
    $150, but this will take a little bit of effort.
    
    There is a note somewhere on the PZM mod. I can't recall if it
    was in Music, Audio, or somewhere else. I'll post a pointer if
    I can find it.
    
    
    
    
    
349.9CSC32::J_KALINOWSKIForget NAM?....NEVER!Wed Feb 12 1997 12:245
    
       Thanks for the info...I never heard of a PZM, untill now.
    I'll investigate or see if I can borrow one for a test.
    
    -john
349.10GLDX02::ALLBERYJimWed Feb 12 1997 12:543
    I'm fairly sure that RS has dropped its PZM mike from its catalog.
    
    Jim
349.11wrong amp = wrong soundSMURF::SCHOFIELDRick Schofield, DTN 381-0116Wed Feb 12 1997 14:1515
    
    Your problem is probably made worse by the amp.  It sounds like you're
    using a guitar amp, and guitars amps have frequency responses which are
    definitely NOT suitable to amplifying an acoustic piano.  You can have
    the best mics in the world, but if you run them through a guitar amp,
    the result isn't going to sound much like a piano.
    
    I don't know how much you want to spend on all this, but if you want to
    amplify the piano and still have it sound piano-y, you need a keyboard
    amp (like the Peavey KB300 for example), or a small PA head or powered
    mixer and a speaker with at least a 12" cone and horn tweeter.
    
    	JMO,
    
    	Rick
349.12ASABET::pelkey.ogo.dec.com::pelkeyProfessional HombreThu Feb 13 1997 07:124
problem with PZMs is they pickup a lot of stuff
you wont want in the music signal...

I'd guess you'd hear the hammer strikes....
349.13CSC32::J_KALINOWSKIForget NAM?....NEVER!Fri Feb 14 1997 10:2911
    
    
    I borrowed a pzm last night, NFG....It would be O.K. except for the
    fact that every little touch of thump on the piano cab, is amplified.
    If you mute a string and hit a key you can hear the hammer strike.
    The only way it works good is if the gain is turned down to the point
    where the amplified signal is only slightly louder than the piano
    itself. I have a friend who claims to have a solution and will lend me
    the stuff to try out.  later..
    
    -john
349.14The things we suffer for art...MSDOA::GUIDRYGhost RiderFri Feb 14 1997 15:076
    You don't want to mount a PZM on the piano itself. If you have a solid
    floor (no carpet, not springy) try putting it there, near the piano. 
    
    If the floor won't work, then mount the mike at the center of a 
    3' x 3' piece of plexiglass. Mount the plexiglass on a mike stand or
    reasonable facsimile and face it toward the piano.
349.15KDX200::COOPERThere is no TRY - DO or DO NOT!Sat Feb 15 1997 08:104
    I think a couple of decent condensers laying on a hunk of foam would do
    the trick.  I have a pair of crown PZM's and use them to monitor the 
    studio for talk-back purposes...
    
349.16CSC32::J_KALINOWSKIForget NAM?....NEVER!Tue Feb 18 1997 09:489
    
                                         >>laying on a hunk of foam
    
        Thats what solved the problem. Direct mechanical connection to the
    piano with a boom type invented device was causing all the unwanted
    pickup of noise. Now the amplified sound is perfect! Thanks for all the
    suggestions.
    
    -john