Conference napalm::guitar

    I own an ES345 SVT. The SVT designation means it is wired in stereo
    and has the 6 position "varitone" switch. It also has gold hardware.
    The ES335 has chrome hardware, no varitone, and is mono. It is my
    opinion that you can live without these extra's. The 355 has all
    of the things that my 345 has, plus lots of binding all around the
    neck and headstock, and usually has a Bibsby Tailpiece. The extra
    binding looks nice, but Bigsby tailpieces suck. A lot of guitarist
    actually don't like gold hardware. At any rate the 335 seems to
    be the most popular of the ES's. Beware of ES330's. I used to have
    one and it was a real dog. They have a very short scale neck, which
    limits your reach, plus they have single coil "soapbar" pickups,
    which can't hold a candle to the Humbuckers. 
                     
    	My advice is to buy one used, but shop around as much as possible.
    Make sure you check the neck/headstock area to make sure the guitar
    you're considering buying ever cracked there and was repaired.
    (cracking in this area has been known to be a problem on ES's if
    the instrument was ever strung with medium to heavey gauge strings).
    I did lots of looking and calling around before I bought mine, and
    ended up buying it in Cambridge at the instrument exchange. If you
    go into Boston, you can see a large selection of instruments with
    minimal driving since there are so many music stores within a short
    distance from each other. I paid 525 for mine. The guitar is in
    excellant condition, however the case was poor. A new ES335 will
    set you back at least 650 - 700 dollars. An ES345 is probably up
    around 1000 dollars. 
                         
    	If you are in the Marlboro area, Mr. C's is a Gibson dealer,
    and he usually has a few 335's in stock. He also offers in store
    credit plans that allow you to take the axe home for 25 dollars/month.
    He is also a nice guy to do business with.
    
    		Good luck.				Mark Jacques
    							LM02/Marlboro
    
    
    
    

    I just picked up a 1969 ES345 SVT for $550. The condition is excellent,
    despite the fact that the last guy who had it didn't keep it up
    very well. However, I rubbed the scratches out of the finish and
    tuned it up a little, and it looks almost like a new one. I feel
    like I got a good deal, as I was told that used 335's would be in
    the $600-800 range if they were in good condition.
    
    Personally, I think the tone switch on the 345 is great, especially if
    you like to play with a variety of sounds and don't want to fool around
    with a lot of electronics. Mine has also had a switch added on which
    seems to throw the coils in the lower pickup out of phase, providing a
    "strat" type sound. I have practically no use for a tailpiece anyway,
    so I'm glad I found a 345, even though I started out looking for a 335. 

    Being semi-hollow bodies, 335's and 345's definitely will have less
    sustain and be more likely to produce feedback than a Les Paul or
    a Strat (for example), but they are also lighter and have a somewhat
    "warmer" tone (in my opinion). I happen to like the feel of Gibson
    necks on their electrics.    

    I would really recommend looking in the Want Advertiser, which is
    what I did for about a month. I do see old 335's come up in there
    from time to time. I have also been told that if you want to get
    a new one there is a company called Heritage guitars which consists
    of a bunch of guys who worked for Gibson before they moved their
    factory, and they were too old to want to move with it, so they
    started their own company making copies of the older Gibson lines.
    They supposedly have a 335 type for about $800, which I was told
    is cheaper and better quality than what Gibson is making these days.
    Take that for what it's worth (not much).

    By the way, there is also something called a "dot series" 335, which
    to my understanding is a basic 335 without the neck inlays and other
    cosmetic frills. I assume these cost a little less, but I'm not
    an expert on guitar history, and I don't know what are considered
    to be "good years" and models for these guitars.
    
    Any Gibson historians out there?

    
    re: .1  mr c wants 799 for a new DOT ES335 (ebony w/case).  I didn't
    know about the take home plan.  ($25 a month?!...)  would you
    be interested in getting together?  I live in stow...
    
    /paul
    

    
    question on your reply... you say being semi-hollow there's less
    sustain than a Strat?  I play a Strat and would hope that's not
    true...?   I would agree that it would feedback before a Strat...
    
    /paul
    

    The 335, 345 , and 355 are all semi hollow, with a solid center.
    If you read about the Les paul, you will see that it was concieved
    from the "Log" which was Les Paul's original idea. They threw the
    upper and lower bouts on the guitar for looks, resulting in the
    Les Paul guitar we all know and love. The 335, 345, & 355 are
    basically Les Pauls with the upper and lower bouts being hollow
    in stead of solid. I have never experienced any feedback problems 
    with my 345 even when cranking my Twin up to about 8. I agree, you
    won't get the same tone, as the Les Paul, and slightly less sustain,
    but the difference in sustain is minimal.
    
    	As far as "dot neck" 335 are concerned, the original 335's from
    the late 50's early 60's were dot neck, rather than block inlaid,
    and are now sought after collectors items. There are late model
    copies of this design, but the originals are rare, and expensive.
    I would imagine, you'd probably pay just as much for a new 335
    dot neck, as you would for a new 335 with block inlays. It's just
    a matter of preference.
    
     

    I'm not sure which one of us you were asking about getting together
    to see the 345, but you're welcome to try mine sometime if you like.
    I live in Concord, just off 117.
    
    The reason I said that a Strat will have more sustain is because
    natural sustain is primarily a function of the density of the body,
    and semi-hollow bodies are not noted for having the kind of sustain
    that heavy, solid body guitars do. The sensitivity of the pickups
    has something to do with it, but not as much as the body density.
    
    By the way, I forgot to mention that the 345 has something called
    a "tune-a-matic" bridge, which lets you do fine tuning with your
    right hand. The one I bought has had Grover pegs installed as well.
    Gibson tuners are not really all that bad (opinion), but the Grovers
    are really smooth. I find it just as easy to make fine adjustments
    with my left hand, which I am in the habit of doing anyway, so the
    tune-a-matic isn't much use for me. It might be a consideration,
    though, especially if you use light strings and heavy fingers.

    The tuners you are refering to are only found on newer Gibsons.
    The bridge has a knerled knob for each string for fine tuning.
    My ES345 is circa 1975 and doesn't have them. 
    
    							Mark Jacques
    

    My ES345 is circa 1969, and it does have them. I suppose it is possible
    that they were installed later, but it doesn't look like it. The
    finish on them is worn just as much as the rest of the hardware,
    and there are no signs of anything having been removed. However,
    it may be that it is a simple replacement of the original.
    
    - Ram

    Actually the name "tune-a-matic" has been around for years and
    refers to Gibsons bridge style which is suspending across two
    threaded rods, and has an adjustment for each string's intonation.
    I'm not sure what the official name for the newer bridge is, but
    most new Gibsons have them. I believe the two threaded rods are
    still placed the same distance apart, therefore it is a quick
    change from the old original bridge to the new fine tuning
    style bridge. If your ES345 is circa 1969, chances are the
    fine tuning bridge was added on later. I am assuming your
    guitar has gold plated hardware. Keep in mind that gold
    plated hardware does not stay mint for long. I changed the
    pickup covers on my ES345 when I bought it 5 years ago, and
    now the new one's are losing their plating. 
    
    	Another detail about old versus new bridge styles is that
    the old style threaded rods have been replaced on newer Gibsons
    by a much more heavy duty brass anchor. I've seen old Gibson
    hollow bodies (not semi hollow) where the threaded rods have
    stripped the wood and were floating in the body. This new style
    anchor is a nice improvement on the old ones, and I have been
    tempted to replace the ones on my guitar. Rick Mcduff, Of 
    Mcduff's Music (Shrewsbury, Ma) claims its an easy job and
    will do it for about $20.oo including parts. The only thing
    that has stopped me from retrofitting is my desire to keep
    my guitar stock.
                    
    						Mark Jacques
    						LM02/Marlboro
    
    

    	The fine tuneable bridge is called a TP-6. Not to be confused
    with "tune-a-matic" which is what sits on almost any Les Paul, SG
    and many of the ES-xxx line. The original (found only on very early
    Gibsons) was called the Stop Tailpiece. It was actually the same
    tailpiece as found today, except that the strings ran in towards
    the rear of the guitar and back over the top which was used as the
    "bridge" as well as the tailpiece.
    					Tom Testagrossa

    
    I'm not positive about this but I think I remember reading in
    George Gruhn's column in Guitar Player that the numbers stand
    for the original list price with ES standing for "Electric Spanish".
    
    I have a 62 ES-335 which has much more sustain and less feedback
    than the later models.  The early-mid 70's models tops would
    vibrate at higher volumes; my 62 doesn't at all.  As far as sustain,
    owning a Boogie makes that a non-issue.
    
    Most 335's have very low frets which make bending a slight problem
    (compared to a Strat) and may actually change your style.
    
    Great guitar!!
    
    Tom

    Just curious as to why you say that having low frets could make
    bending a problem. It's true that Gibsons tend to have somewhat
    flat, low frets, but I have never really noticed that it affected
    my playing style that much, other than the feel.

    I'll vouch for Tom D's 335-Boogie combination. Sounds GREAT!
    
    I have a Paul with pretty low, wide frets and a Strat with thin,
    high frets. I much prefer the thin high frets for bending. If
    you like to do extreme bends a lot (like 2 or 2 1/2 steps), you
    just sort of run out of fret unless you have high frets. 
    
    -Dave

    re -1
    
    I disagree. I have low frets on my Paul and real skinny, low frets
    on the Jackson and I can still bend an major 6th interval on the
    b & g strings. I find the tall frets on my Ibanez to be no help
    in vicious bends...only a hassle in getting low low action.
    
    ?
    
    WjB

    re: WJB
    
    A major 6th?!?!?
    
    I can't bend that far but it has nothing to do with frets or even
    technique.  If I was to bend my G or B strings that far I'd almost
    certainly break them.
    
    What gauge and brand of string are you using?  I even tested the
    so called "no break set" and managed to break them.  They always
    break at the bridge end so it's not a problem with nut, nor is
    there like to be any problem with the bridge (it's a Kahler and
    has no sharp edges or acute angles anywhere the string might contact
    the bridge.
    
    I can do it with the bar, but for some reason radical bends almost
    always end up with me breaking strings.  At this point, I'm just
    afraid to go much more than a major third.  Changing strings is
    a royal pain (I've got a locking nut that requires a allen wrench,
    but I'm going to replace it with a pop-top one).
    
    	db

    I use GHS reinforced 9's.
    
    I can get a 6th on the les paul no prob. Its a bit tougher on the
    guit's with the bars cause the more you bend the more the guitar
    goes flat (tension crap). I must be lucky, I can't break a string
    unless its a bit old and rusty (and I do try and break them to know
    limits).

    I finally broke down and bought a new case for the ES345 I 
    spoke about in .1 and other replies. My old case is a rag, and
    really takes away from the value and enjoyment of the guitar.
    I bought my new case from Mr. C's music in Marlboro. It is 
    black with blue lining and cost $105.oo. While I was there
    I checked out his vintage guitars. Right now He has at least
    3 ES335's in stock. One is black w/block inlays, one sunburst
    w/block inlays, and one blonde w/dot neck. My personal favorite
    is the blonde one. It has a really beautiful quilted maple top
    which promises to age really nicely. Big bucks for all of them
    though. Especially the blonde one. I believe they are all just
    over a grand. I think I'll hold on to mine for now until I 
    win Megabucks.
    
    						Mark Jacques
    						LM02/Marlboro Ma.
    

    As a side topic, what do you think of some of the 335 copies
    that are around. I've seen some beautiful 335 look-alikes by
    Yamaha (SBG2000 or something), Ibanez (AS-50, AS-100, AS-200,
    and LR-10), and some others (Washburn, Vantage, Hondo). 
    
    A few years back I was in a music store that had a brand new
    Ibanez AS-50 for $345 and a '62 ES-345 for $875. Needless to
    say, I thought the Ibanez was a much better guitar.
    
    I've also played a few Guild Starfires over the years. Can't
    say I liked them too much.
    
    -Dave

    I don't know much about Ibanez, but I was fooling around on a used
    one in a music store some time back, and it felt like a nice guitar
    to me. I don't know what model it was either. Anyway, not knowing
    much about them, I felt it was a better investment to get somethng
    that I was pretty sure would "age gracefully" (a 345).
    
    - Ram

    I have to admit that there are a lot of really good companies out
    there like Ibanez, and others making hollow bodied guitars. Playability
    and sound-wise they are fine. Resale value is another story. You
    can buy these instruments used for a song, while instruments from
    the old standard manufacturers like Gibson, Fender (especially pre-cbs)
    Martin, etc. hold on to their value virtually indefinately. For
    instance if you want to buy a nice flat top, you can choose from
    any one of hundreds of manufacturers selling them cheap, but if you
    want the genuine article liek a Martin it's going to cost you a
    grand or more.
    
    

    I'd like to add something to what I said in note .20.
    
    I don't know how many people are into motorcycles, or cars, but let 
    me make a comparison to vintage guitars.
    
    How much money would you pay for a 1959 Honda motorcycle, or a 1959
    Japanese car. I for one wouldn't want either even if you paid me to
    to take them. I would, however, love to own a vintage 1959 American
    car or motorcycle, like a 59 corvette, or a 59 Harley Davidson.
    
    Even in recent years, where the Japanese now make high performance
    motorcycles that blow Harleys away, they still have no resale value.
    The Harley, with all of it's drawbacks, still holds it's value better
    than any other motorcycle on the road. 
    
    The same is true of Guitars. Nobody is saying that a Gibson ES335
    will blow away an Ibanez 335 copy (well maybe some people believe
    this but I for one don't). Still, the Gibson will hold it's value
    virtually forever, in fact may be worth more once it is 10 years
    old, where the Ibanez will start to lose value the minute you take
    it out of the store.
                        
    I may be naive, but I know what I like, and I wouldn't trade my
    Gibson or Fender for a Japanese guitar any day. By the same token,
    I would rather wait until I can afford to buy a Gibson, than to
    buy an Ibanez because they are less expensive.
    
    							Mark Jacques
    							LM02/Marlboro
    
    
    

    re .21
    
    There is a positive value in owning something beautiful.  I own
    an Ibanez A200 ( among too many others ) and purchased it because
    it was a little over 400.00.  I wanted a hollow body electric
    and didn't have the $$$$ to buy an ES335.  But someday I will.
    
    There are guitars you own because you need something to play
    and have "x" dollars to spend.  And then there are guitars whose
    allure is sexual.
    
    So love and cherish your ES335 and Les Pauls and old Martins etc.
    They love you too.
    
    					Regards
    					Doug Dickerson
    

    I agree. Dragging a vintage guitar out of the house to use on
    a gig is kind of like taking a vintage vette to work in a snow
    storm. If you are a working musician, you should have a guitar
    you can drag around and not worry about (like a winter car). 
    If you want to experiment with pickups, or wiring, do it to an 
    "inexpensive", guitar, that can easily be raplaced, not to a 
    vintage axe. 
    
    						Mark Jacques
    

    Gee,
    
    When I go out to buy a guitar, I'm not thinking of things like resale
    value.  I'm looking to get the best instrument I can get for my
    money.  I'm not a collector - I fancy myself a musician.
    
    I guess you and I just disagree Mark.  I'm not convinced that a 1987
    Fender is gonna be worth any more money in 1997 than a 1987 Fernandes.
    In any case, for the reasons given above, I don't even see how it
    matters if it did.
    
    And the idea of saving to buy a new Gibson instead of a less expensive
    but (in my opinion) better made Ibanez seems depriving yourself
    more than anything else.
    
    I just don't understand why people insist on seeing the name Fender
    or Gibson on their headstocks.  Some of these guitar makers like
    Ibanez, Fernandes, Jackson, etc. are making excellent guitars.
    
    I'm convinced that most Fender/Gibson devotees would come awaken
    with their beliefs shaken if they subjected themselves to an
    honest blindfold test comparing (for example) a Fernandes Strat
    to a new Fender strat.
    
    	db

    	Since Fender is now being made in Japan, people are out looking
    for American made Fenders. Therefore a 1987 Japanese made Fender
    won't hold it's value any better than any other guitar. I personally
    think Fender will eventually either return to being made in the
    USA or they were inevitably go under. 
    
        As always, it boils down to opinion. If I am out shopping for
    a car that I am going to commute with, I have one set of criteria.
    If I am out looking for a classic car that I'm only gonna drive
    on summer Sundays and never park in a parking lot, then I have a
    different set of criteria. Since I'm mainly into music as a hobby
    at this point in time, I'm mainly after instruments with some degree
    of collectable appeal. I don't consider myself a collector, as I
    don't have the money or time to buy up pre-CBS Fenders and 59 Les
    Paul Flametops. I have a 1975 Gibson ES345, which I do not consider
    to be much of a collector's item, but hopefully someday it will
    be considered somewhat special. It is already special to me. 
    
    	My biggest complaint with a lot of the newer guitars on the
    market has nothing to do with sound, playability, or even resale
    value. My biggest complaint is that so many new models are here
    today, gone tomorrow, and many are nothing more than a copy of 
    a Strat or other industry standard with a slight variation,
    or improved tremelo. The Les Pauls, Tele's, and Strats are timeless.
    They have been around for 30 years and will no doubt be around for
    another 30 years. How many newer guitars can you say that about?
    
    							Mark Jacques
    

    One of the things that I like about my guitar is that no
    one else I know of uses one like it.  The only significant criteria
    I buy guitars for is feel and sound, but to me its actually a BONUS
    that I use something that is fairly unusual.
    
    Not that it should matter, but I get some small amount of satisfaction
    knowing that I'm not yet another guy with a strat or a Les Paul.
    
    	db
    
    P.S.  My guitar is a Carvin DC 200 Koa.  It feels wonderful to me,
          and is capable of a wide variety of tones.

    I agree about resale value. I don't buy guitars to sell 'em.
    I buy guitars to PLAY. I used to think there was something 
    mystical about Gibsons and Fenders. Granted, they will sound and
    play better than the average guitar you buy out of a Sears catalog
    (by the way, Sears is selling Dean Guitars), but there is no
    inherent reason why a Fender Strat will play better then a 
    Charvel or whatever.
    
    As far as resale goes, let's see:
    
    New Les Paul $700       New Ibanez Artist $400
    used Paul    $500       used              $250
    
    loss         $200       loss              $150
    
    I realize these numbers are hypothetical, but I don't see where
    the 'resale value' argument has any validity.
    
    -Dave

    A few years ago I paid a visit to a guy I used to play in a band
    with. He had purchased a Carvin 6/12 double neck and loved it so
    much that he turned around and ordered another one that was a
    single neck 6 string. He's happy with both of them and thats
    all that really matters. I have heard a few Carvin amps, admittedly
    it was quite a few years ago, and I was not impressed. I must admit
    their guitars are top quality all the way.
    
    Everyone has their own idea what is the "best". It all boils down
    to opinion. I admit it's always nice to be unique, and having a
    seldom seen instrument can make life interesting. In the final
    analysis it's not so much what instrument you've got strapped
    around your neck, but what you can do with it that's important.
    
    							Mark Jacques
    

    Thought I'd put this here because this topic is so lonely... no replies
    in over 3� years!
    
    I have an ES345TD, circa 1970 or so, which I am considering selling
    since I am currently interested in a different guitar.  This is the
    stereo version of the 335 with varitone circuit.  I have been the sole
    owner of this guitar, and I would put the condition at very good to
    excellent.  The only problem I see is that some of the gold plating has
    worn off the hardware.  The case is in only fair shape (this case stunk
    from day 1 anyway).
    
    Question is... can somebody take a guess as to what might I reasonably 
    expect to get for this guitar?
    
    								Marc
    
    P.S.  Feel free to try to talk me out of selling it!
    
    

    I would hold onto it if it were in that good of shape !
    I saw one for $600 with a busted off, but repaired headstock.
    It moved in less than two weeks...
    
    They are nice guitars...You've had it since it was new, why change now?
    I think everyone MUST have multiple guitars...
    
    :)
    

    That's it.  I'm not selling!
    
    �   ... why change now?
    
    I'm just not playing it very much lately (very attached to my strat)
    and I fantasize that I can get a different guitar that would be more
    useful, at least in the short term.  The 345 also has strings pretty
    close together, making it hard for a big-mitt like me to play.  
    
    I do take your advice seriously, though.  Thanks for offering it.
    
    								Marc

    Hang onto it.  I got thru phases where I play my Strat and ignore my
    Gibson...then vice-versa...  Then I ignore both and play my pointy
    headstock guitars...
    
    Been on a strat kick lately though... Sounds GREAT thru the marshall...
    
    jc

    Marc,
    
    	I've seen in the last few months but not more than 6 a Es345td
    with a Sunburst finish,hardcase 70's go for $1280. So I'd suggest you
    hang on to it.
    
							Rick

        Can anyone in the Boston area give me info on how much the Daddies
        or the Wurlitzers are charging for 335 re-issues these days? I'm
        after a realistic cash price, since over here in the U.K. prices have
        just been hiked up to 1305 pounds, and one dealer told me he selects
        and buys his stock himself in the States.

        Many thanks,

        Richard. (Reading, U.K.)
[End of file]
  

    I just bought a Es 335, Ebony w/case for about $1000.00 at Wurlitzers.
    
    TA

    Long time since replies!!!
    I was fortunate enough in 1972 to find an ES335TDC for a low price
    because I guess eveyone wanted Les Paul's and Strats.  It is a 1961
    dot-neck, cherry red in pretty good shape.  I put Grovers on it myself; 
    it has been refretted a couple of times since I got it.  It has a  (as
    PRS would say) a wide/thin neck (maybe too thin for some!)  It has
    PAFs. It is really versatile,  does not EVER feed back but needs an amp
    w/ decent lows else it can sound a little too bright. (It HATES pre-amp
    distortion but LOVES high-sensitivity inputs)  My only point is that
    sadly,  the re-issue,  the EXPENSIVE re-issue to me is not close...the
    neck feels too narrow and the sound is...well...TUBBY.  Disappointing
    for the money and because I know Gibson can do better...I've played a
    couple "Historical Collection" guitars and they are REALLY good...and
    really expensive.  So,  don't expect the new dot-neck to be like the
    old one...

    Barry, have you played any of the Historic re-issue 335s and 355s?  If
    so, how did you like them?
    
    /rick
    

    re: .37
    
    Rick,
    
    I was not aware that there is a 335 as part of the historic collection.
    I played the '56 Les Paul Goldtop from the Collection and was VERY
    impressed.  I've seen the others and they LOOK really good. I did play
    a new L5 (sigh) but the salesman at my local music emporium said that
    it was not part of the Collection.  I did not play it amplified,  it
    looked and felt fantastic.  The sound acoustically was very well
    balanced but not very loud and I think a little nasal though this might
    be characteristic of the genre; I've not had much experience with
    archtops.  The neck and set-up however were to die for...SB for
    $6,000!!
    
    Barry

    I've seen both Historic 355s and 335s advertised in dealer lists,
    haven't seen one in person yet.
    
    /rick
    

    One of the dealers here (Detroit) had a couple.  I didn't try them 
    out, and I'm not semi-hollow literate enough to tell if they were 
    335s or 355s, but they sure were pretty (and expensive -- $8K list).
    
    Jim

    re: .40
    
    If they are really nice, in today's market, the price is really not
    unreasonable..but who has (at av. discount) $5,600 to spend on
    a guitar??!!
    
    Barry
    
    BTW....the 355 is pretty elaborate...gold plating,  ebony board w/block
    inlays and the Varitone dial...335 is pretty basic and has....dot
    inlays!

    Garret Park Guitars was advertising Historic 355s in antique natural
    for $3600 a little while ago.  But perhaps that has gone up.
    

    Based on .41, I'm sure these were 355s.  One was an absolute drop-dead
    gorgeous tiger maple in a cherry finish.
    
    The sign said $8K list, but I think they were selling them for $4K. 
    They were having a great sale... They had a Chet Tenessean at 60% off
    list.  I was tempted, but it was the orange finish that I don't really
    like.   If I ever buy another electric guitar, it will be something
    very special (and a color I like).
    
    Jim