Conference napalm::guitar

    
    
    Classical electric?  Talk about a contradiction of terms!!
    
    ralph
    
    

    May be classical electric is not the right thing to call it, but
    yes there is a guitar which has nylon string and it needs an amp
    to be played, classical electric? Yes, it is contradiction.
    
    

    My cousin owns one. It is a Gibson Chet Atkins, not to be confused
    with the new Chet Atkins electrics. The body is about the same 
    thickness as a Les Paul. The body looks exactly like a classic
    guitar from the front. It even has a hollow soundhole, but the rest
    of the body is solid. It incorporates the ceramic bridge pickup
    similar to the Ovations type pickup, and uses nylon strings. The
    guitar cannot be heard without an amp for the most part. Through
    an amp, it provides a incredibly real classic guitar sound, without
    the hassles of miking, or using add-on pickups. It also includes
    a neck truss rod, which many classical guitar (even some of the
    high priced ones) do not have. It also includes volume and tone
    controls on the upper bout. Another advantage for stage applications
    is the fact that you can stand up and play with a strap. Most
    classical guitars are made to play sitting down in the classical
    "snob" position. They don't even have strap buttons on them. Without
    a truss rod I would hesitate to tie a strap to the headstock of
    any guitar.
               
    	If I remember correctly he bought his Chet Atkins from Fitchburg
    music about three years ago for $600.oo with case. He also owns
    an Alverez Yiari (spelling?) classical guitar with cedar top,sides,
    and back. He loves his Alvarez, but admits its pretty much useless
    for stage applications. He was using his Chet Atkins in a rock band 
    to get effects like Rush and Yes where they add a touch of classical
    in the intro or somewhere in the middle bridge parts. Miked classicals
    may be fine in a place like Carnegie hall with a quiet audience,
    but in a club with a rock n roll audience, they definately can't
    cut the mustard, Thats where the Chet Atkins classical/electric
    comes in handy.
    
    	By the way, my cousin's name is Bruce Jacques. He has an act
    billed as Bruce Jacques and the invisible band, which consists of
    himself on guitars and vocal, and several preprogrammed synths 
    and drum machines accompanying him. He is well known in the
    Fitchburg, Leominster area, and previously played with a band
    called Peer Pressure.
    
    							Mark Jacques
    							LM02/Marlboro
    
    
    

    re: .3
    
    The "snob" position is really the optimal position for classical/
    fingerstyle playing.  The only reason a lot of other folks don't
    use it, when sitting, is because it just doesn't look cool.

    Truss rods:  Some classical guitars have an ebony truss rod (not
    adjustable), but metal truss rods are practically  unheard-of in
    serious classical guitars.
    
    Bob
        

    Martin doesn't use truss rods in their guitars at all. I'm not sure
    if this is true of the entire line, but I know at least some of
    their top the line models have no truss rod. I have been told that
    they feel that the design and construction is such that the neck
    will never warp if the guitar is properly tuned, and they supposedly
    guarantee this for the life of the guitar. I have seen some very
    old Martins, and I have never seen one with a warped neck.
    
    The pressure exerted on a neck by nylon or gut strings must be far
    less than with steel strings, which is why truss rods would not
    be needed in classical guitars, assuming the construction is reasonably
    good. However, I would have to agree that using a shoulder strap
    on the end of the neck might extert pressure that it wasn't designed
    to handle. This could be avoided by installing a strap button at
    the base of the neck, which is what Martin does in their acoustics.
    
    - Ram

    Martins do have truss rods; they're just not adjustable.
    I have mixed feelings about adjustable truss rods.  I think 
    they're abused as much as used properly.  A lot of people just
    crank away 'til the neck's sort of straight, and then wonder why
    strings are buzzing (or too high) a few days later.  It can take 
    days for the neck to stabilize again.  

    Bob

    I mentioned this in a reply to some other note, but don't remember
    where.  Anyway, I bought a Chet Atkins Classic Electric (sure enough,
    that's what it's called!) a few months ago.  I couldn't quite believe
    my eyes when I saw it in the store, and just had to try it.  Then I
    couldn't quite believe my ears.  Not to mention the feel.  I fell in
    love with it. 
    
    The sound is quite unique, and is pretty well described in .3. The main
    thing I would add is that the solid body allows for a lot of sustain,
    particularly in the lower three strings (D, A, and E). I suspect it's
    due to the fact that they're steel-wound, as opposed to the top three,
    which are (of course) only nylon. 
    
    The result is a guitar that provides a sound that's both soft and
    punchy (talk about contradictions -- but this is the best way I can
    think of to describe it).  The sound is incredibly full, with a
    surprising tonal range.  It really does come close to an acoustic
    sound, without the associated hum at high volumes.  The bottom can
    be made to sound almost like a bass, while still producing a clear,
    clean sound.  I suppose I should add, as it makes a difference,
    that I've been playing mine through a Mesa-Boogie Studio 22 with
    GEQ, so that gives me a lot of flexibility.
    
    It has two controls--volume and tone--mounted as low-profile dials
    on the *side* near the base of the neck, rather than on the face.
    Nice effect.  Looks classy and sounds classy.
    
    The neck looks like any other classical neck, but is slightly narrower
    than the standard (I believe--I'll check on the exact spec).  It's
    real comfortable to play: just wide enough to make finger-picking
    easy, but narrow enough that it's easy to adjust to after playing
    a steel-string.  Which reminds me: I'm not sure if this was mentioned
    before in this discussion, but the body features a single cutaway.
    
    There's no pickguard, of course, since it's supposed to look like
    a classical.  But then, there are plenty of players who use picks
    with classical guitars, particularly in the country genre.  Which
    is not really my area, but I do like country swing.  And I've found
    that I can get a real nice sound using a pick with this guitar,
    very similar to the sound Willie Nelson gets with that old relic
    he's famous for.  It's a resonant and percussive sound with a quality
    that you just can't get from a steel-string guitar.
    
    And finally, I think it's a great axe for jazz and blues, especially in
    the Joe Pass fingerstyle mode.  The big sound of the bottom strings
    really lets you lay out the bass lines, and with that solid-body
    sustain, you can really let a note ring while you play riffs over it.
    So you can have an interesting combination of sounds coming out of one
    guitar: big, sustained bass notes, and plunky, resonant melodies. 
    
    Naturally, the nylon strings do not afford the kind of string bending
    that steel strings do, but, again, that sustained bottom allows a lot
    of flexibility, for example, for delta-blues picking. 
    
    As far as where you can find one, I dunno.  I found mine quite by
    accident at Hampshire Music in Nashua, NH, but it was the only one they
    had.  And lucky for me, they'd been unable to sell it.  So I got it for
    just $400 with hardshell case.  I say "just" because before deciding, I
    called three or four places in Mass. to check on the price.  They all
    said the same thing: about $750 to $800 *if* they could get one, and
    some said they'd had it on order for several weeks. 

    I find that hard to believe, as I can't imagine a big market for it
    around this part of the country.  Maybe you'll find one if you call
    around. That list price is probably what you'll hear, though. When I
    was in Houston a few weeks ago, I stopped into a music store that
    happened to have both versions of the Chet Atkins (there's a
    steel-string version also).  The price on each was ~$800.  I have their
    card, so if it's any help I can give you their address or phone #.
    They said it would cost about $16 to ship a guitar to this area from
    there.  (Yes, I was interested in yet another guitar!!) 
                                                           
    Hope this helps.
    
    steve
     

    
    
    
    	Yeee dawgs, my search for a proper distortion type unit seems to be
    over.  I kind of stumbled onto a RAT.. anyone heard of these??  This
    pedal, although it was fairly expensive has a killer sound and lots of
    control over the lower levels of distortion... I'd recommend it highly
    as a replacement for tube screamers etc.  nice blues sound!
    
    	Thanks to all the tone bros. who helped me through this <sniff, no,
    no, I'll be OK.....> difficult part of my playing career  [;^)  Gree
    Vee King giving the salute
    

    so GreeVee,
    
    what kind of settings do you use to get a bluesy tone out of the Rat?
    I have one that I like but it's kind of hard to keep it from sounding
    TOO raunchy sometimes. I use it for when I want an overwhelming 
    distortion sound.
    
    - Dave

    
    	I also have a RAT and find it excellent! For a bluesy tone I
    	adjust Distortion to about 10 o'clock, Filter at 4, Volume at
    	2. This is also according to the small guideline, which were
    	delivered with the unit. Other settings recommended are:
    
    		Biting lead: Dist. 2, Filter 12, Volume 12. (this one
    			     also recommended when using the bridge pu.)
    		Heavy metal: Dist. 4, Filter 3, Volume 10.
    
    	With the biting lead sound, you can vary Dist. a bit 'to home
    	in on the overtones for a subtle, fixed-wah effect'.
    
    	I bought this one because of the 'old-style' treble-like (ala
    	early Clapton w. Mayall) distortion I then get with my Les Paul
    	connected...
    
    	Poul
    
    

    
    Grrevee, it's interesting that you have found a fatter/bluesier 
    alternative to the Tube Screamer.  After a few months with the TS,
    I have gone back to the "red" lead mode on my Kitty Hawk M1.  Fat
    and Bluesy are good descriptions of this sound too.  Add one ES335
    and you're cookin'!  I guess my tastes go in cycles.
    
    -pat 

    There are NO EXCEPTIONS to the following rule:
    
    "Tastes go in circles"
    
    And don't forget it !!
    
    Amen, brothers ...
    
    jc

    
    
    	Yep, Blairzy and Coop.. I agree.. (Blair.. if Kitty's sound like
    Tube Screamers in anyway, they must have a great OD channel)...
    
    RE:.10  Amazing... I set mine at Between 9 and 10 o'clock for drive
    exactly 4 on filter and it can't be off much either way and 2 on
    volume...  I like your tone!!! [;^)  The only diff between our setting
    s is that I roll off a little distortion that you leave in there.
    
    Gree Vee King

IMHO a kitty blows the tube screamer away with no contest....

dbii

    Yabut the Tube Screamer costs a mere $35 and is a stomp box.
    The Kitty's are a few more dollars and are full blown amps.
    
    Apples and Oranges me thinks... But I agree with ya...
    
    :)

    
    
    
    Well, they're not all amps - you've just forgotten about the Quattro
    and the Toastyourroaster for the moment.  For the slight additional
    cost *8') they're much more interesting.  I keep thinkg that with a
    little bit of time and some microprocessor development tools it would
    be lots of fun to MIDI my Quattro...
    
    

    
    Has anyone seen any good deals on a Chet Atkins model in and
    around central Mass.?  (stores: new/used, want-ads, etc...)
    
    Thanks,
    Kev --