Conference napalm::guitar

    Why are some people so hung up on Gibson Humbuckers?
    
    (oops, didn't mean to IGNITE...  %^)
    
    I tend to believe that the pickups have less to do w/sound than
    the guitar itself (unless you wanna talk about the DANELECTRO line).
    
    
    "A Gibson Humbucker by any other name would sound as sweet..."???
    
    Jon (BPOV02::NELSON)
    

    I had a 1970 Les Paul Deluxe that had them Gibson Baby Humbuckers.
    Anyone remember them ? Those were real nice hot sounding pickups.
    
    I was gonna put some Dimazio's in it, but the Dimazio's I
    had bought didn't fit the holes that the baby humbukers were in.
    
    So before I started to butcher a nice Les Paul, I tried a modified
    one with Dimazio's.  I like the sound of the stock pickups much
    better.  So I left em in.  I can't say it was the wood cuz both
    guitars were Deluxe Gold Tops.

    When I finnaly decided to sell the guitar,one of the reasons that sold
    it the quickest was baecause I'd left the baby humbukcers in.  I
    assume the other reason was it's imaculate condition.  Though it was a 
    beautiful sounding axe, I used to have all kinds of fun keeping it in tune.
    
    I'm sorry I sold that one, it played so nice.  By todays standars, a 
    Kahler or Floyd Rose would have solved the tuning problem.  Should-a
    hung on to it.  Like I should have done for my old Strat, Tele, etc...

				:(

    Wish I still had every good guitar I've ever owned.  It would make a
    fine collection.  Todays new guitars seem to manufactured so
    differently.  Mass production.  Cheaper finishes on some...

    Back in the old days, you really got a nice axe, for a reasonable
    price.  There's some real great guitars out today, but when I think
    of the old guitars I had...  I still wish I had the good ones. 
    To replace them today, you could have bought two of each for the
    price of one today.  And personnaly,  on guitars like the new Fenders
    the old ones are so much better.
    
    Too bad the going prices on the mint ones are 1,500 to 2,000 dollars.

    
    

    <I tend to believe that the pickups have less to do w/sound than
    <the guitar itself (unless you wanna talk about the DANELECTRO line).

    I disagree.  The qualities of the wood DO have an effect on the
    sound, but the pickups are the main factor in a guitars sound. 
    Not only does the wood have an effect, but the finish makes a
    difference too.  It's still the pickups that give the axe it's voice.
    
    <Why are some people so hung up on Gibson Humbuckers?

    T.E.H.O.

I tend to agree w/ .3

A possible list of those things which influence the sound:

- placement of the pickup
- type of strings
- bridge type
- density of the guitar body
- guitar body material
- type pickup
- finish 

and other minor things such as the material and thickness of the guitar pick 
used, the nut type, etc....
 
Of all those listed I feel the pickup type has the most influence.

q: Why do people love Gibson Humbuckers?
a: Because they're great pickups

q: Why do some people spend $2000+ to obtain and play early starts?
a: Beats the hell out of me.  They're great guitars but worth $2000+ ???

Joel
    

Seymour Duncan has a pretty good explanation of how pickups work
    in his catalog. When he talks about "vintage" pickups he mentions
    how pickups lose some of there magnetic field with age, and
    eventually become real warm and mellow sounding, at the expense
    of some of the original brightness and bight. Seymour Duncan
    has a patented process known as "Duncan Aged" which supposedly
    yields a very authentic replica of "vintage pickups". He makes
    all kinds of pickups. Some are really hot screamers for people 
    who play heavy medal or otherwise want to scream. He also makes
    a replica of the old Gibson P.A.F.'s (Patent applied for)
    humbucker, like those found on the 1959 Les Paul Standard,
    as well as replicas of the vintage Strat, Telecaster, and 
    Broadcaster pickups. He makes so many different kinds of 
    pickups, chances are he makes one that will give you the 
    sound you want. The nice thing about his products is
    that you can alter your guitar to get the sound you want 
    without hacking it up to accomidate larger pickups. Then
    later on if you decide to sell the guitar, you can put
    the original pickups back in and return the guitar to it's
    original condition and value.
    
    I agree with the people who stated that the pickups have the
    most dramatic effect on the sound compared with the body,
    however the body does have a significant effect just the
    same. Especially if you compare Solid body with hollow bodied
    instruments. If you compare the sound of a Les Paul and that
    of a 335, with identical pickups, the 335 will sound warmer,
    while the Les Paul will sound brighter and will have more
    sustain. 
    
    
    						Mark Jacques
    						LM02/Marlboro
    

 Reply to :   

<        I agree with the people who stated that the pickups have the
<    most dramatic effect on the sound compared with the body,
<    however the body does have a significant effect just the
<    same. 

    	No one said this wasn't the case.  The subject asrouse when
    a profound statement was aired, somethig to the fact, that pickups 
    had less to do with the sound than most everything else.

    	Just an opinion, sure, but not one that I thought held much
    truth.
    
    In-search-of..
    /ray

    Then perhaps someone more knowledgeble than myself would care to
    explain what characteristics of a pickup make one sound different
    from another.  Fixed magnets vs. screw-type, # of wraps/thickness
    of coil, strength of magnet, etc...  Are they all that different?
    
    Not being an EE, I understand the physical differences but have
    trouble explaining the difference in output.  Also, what's the 
    purpose of sheilding over the pickup (i.e. washburn)?, how do the
    DANELECTRO's (single bar) work?  Food & more food for thought...?
    
    Jon (BPOV02::NELSON)
    

    Re: -.7
    
    How do Danelectro pickups work?  Real well...
    
    Seriously, Danelectro was the first company to totally shield their
    guitars, back somewhere around 1957.  
    
    Amazingly enough, my Danelectro guitar and bass use the same pickup!
                                                           
    The company's main philosophy was low cost but not at the expense
    of quality.  How many other $37.95 guitars do you see still in action
    after 20 or 30 years?

    Personally, I always thought it was the cords :)

    For whatever reason, they they sound sweet at both low and high
    volume.  It's not because they're dirty or old, the old PAFs had
    a sweet sound that I haven't heard duplicated.
    
    Believe it or not I had a 57 Gibson 175 with PAFs that I traded
    even for a 59 Sunburst Les Paul Delux, which I sold for $500 in
    1973.  Wish I had both of 'em today.

    Yeeks! a '57?  Any idea what that would go for today?
    Not being a historian of Gibson, I was wondering ... Did Gibson
    at some point in time change their design on the humbucker? - and
    I'm not referring to the smaller scale hunbuckers that they put
    on the later model LP deluxes.
    
    Joel

    
      We can hold on to everything forever !  Some things we keep, some
    we let go. How does one know that the thing we just sold for $400.
    won't be worth $2000. someday. I could have bought a '62 corvette
    for $1000. Perfect condition and totally stock. I didn't though.
    What a mistake !!!  :^(  
      I have a '69 or '70 Les Paul Custom cherry sunburst that has a great
    sound and the original p/u's still in place. I love the sound. It
    has the tone I want and like. It all stems to what YOU like.
    Everybody's different. Stick with something that works for you.
    I won't be ever selling that guitar. 
     Why are the p/u's so good...     because they are !! 
    
    Fred

	I wasn't thinking so much about the value as I was the quality.
    If you are going to keep the instrument forever then who cares about
    what the dollar value is?  Recently, a friend of my purchased an
    inexpensive Korean made bass.  Time will tell about its quality
    as it appears at first glance to be made adequately.  However, the
    unique sound it produces will stand up to most any other bass I've
    heard.
    
    Joel
    

    I'm on a curiosity binge now that I'm back in the Gibson business.  My
    Les Paul deluxe has "baby" humbuckers.  They seem to have the same fat
    tone, mellow sound, high response as the regular P.A.F.'s, but they're
    size would indicate that they have fewer windings (I'm guessing here).
    
    What is the diff between "babies" and the P.A.F.'s?
    
    Steve

    Hello out there?  No guesses/answers to question in 272.14?
    
    Steve

    Gibson Mini-humbuckers have a lower impedance than the standard size
    humbuckers--about 6-6.k vs 7.8-8.5k. This gives them a somewhat
    brighter, thinner tone than standard ones, and a somewhat lower output.
    
    Danny W.

    Thinner and lower output than the regular humbuckers?  Wow, they're
    TWICE as hot and TWICE as fat as the pickups on my old strat!  Amazing!
    
    Thanks, Danny
    
    
    Steve 

    
    did anyone notice the "new" line of Gibson Les Paul Gems?
    
    they're basically a Les Paul that comes in 5 funky
    colours(topaz,emerald,ruby etc....spot the common link?)they have p90
    pick-ups and gold hardwear and list about $1.6k!
    
    
    						ian

not bad guitars for the money really...

If you're dead set on a Les Paul Standard, they might
not be the correct alternative, but for a USA made Gibson
with decent quality, I think they can be had for under a 
grand.

    
    agreed although I don't think I really like P90'S
    
    
    					ian

yea, well I have to agree there myself.. if I want
single coils, I most likely want the rest of the
package (strat sounds)...

    I need to introduce you guyz to junior; he's got a lil ole
    P90 that'll part your hair in three places
    

    -1
    
    don't sell 'em short... p90's were responsible for some cool sounds
    in early rock&roll... they're not your typical single coil pickups,
    they have a fat/thick, raunchy sound which to my ears is closer to a
    humbucker than it is to a strat single coil...   but I have to admit
    that I do prefer les pauls with paf humbuckers.
    
    /Steve

    -1
    
     notes collision Rick...., now my previous entry should read re: -2
    
    /Steve

    
    I'd rather have PAF!All the really good sounds I liked from PAF's!
    
    
    
    						ian

    If you can afford to own more than 1 Gibson, it's a nice idea to
    get a couple differant sounds from them.
    
    I own 3 Gibson guitars with full-sized humbuckers (SG, ES345, ES175)
    and one Firebird with mini-humbuckers. The Firebird has the best tone
    IMHO. I'd love a Gibson with P90's. 
    
    A friend of mine had a 1962 Les Paul Special. These were double cut
    guitars (like a PRS, or Hamer) with P90 soapbars and sounded sweet. 
    Only drawback of P90's is that (like any single coil pu) they tend to 
    hum a bit. 
    
    Mark