Conference napalm::guitar

    I've never done an axe but I've refinished beau-coup pieces of
    furniture, all of which came out *gorgeous*...
    
    1. Sand.
    
    2. Sand some more with a fine grit (200+). ALWAYS sand in the direction
       of the grain.
    
    3. Tired of standing yet? Good, cuz your done. Now get some steel
       wool. Use medium grade first then move on to super fine OOOO.
    
    4. Wipe the entire piece down with a clean lint free cloth.
    
    (I'd suggest removing the neck if possible. If you leave if on,
    stain will congregate at the joint and leave a darker finish.)
    
    5. Wipe the stain on and wipe it right off again.
    
    6. Allow some drying time. Complete drying not necessary.
    
    7. GOTO 5. (Hardwood doesn't absorb stain as fast as pine.)
    
    8. Finish is really a matter of preference. Some folks swear by
       various oils (Linseed, cottonseed), I prefer good ole Poly-U.
       What do guitar manufacturers use? I refinished my bar at home
       and sealed it with high-gloss urethane. It's as slick as ice
       no matter how sweaty my hands are, and the resultant finish is
       *DEEP*...                                     
    
    Good luck.
    
    Edd
    
    

    There are several different ways of refinishing wood. Remember the
    guitar body is nothing more than a piece of wood and can be finished
    using any of several different methods. Its up to you how elaborate
    you want the finish to be. Naturally if you wanted a fancy sunburst
    finish I wouldn't recommend you attempt it yourself. If all you
    want is a decent looking protective finish on the instrument, it
    should be fairly easy to accomplish this.
    
    	First of all decide whether you want a glossy finish or a matted
    (dull) finish. Most people prefer a glossy finish and this is usually
    done with lacquer. If you are willing to settle for a matted finish
    you might consider using a Toungue Oil like Formby's. Tongue oil
    is quick and easy to use. You could easily do a complete finish
    in a few hours if you use tongue oil. If you select lacquer, it
    goint to take a lot more time to get a good finish.
    
    	Next decide if you want to leave the wood the natural (stripped)
    color, or stain it. You mentioned that the wood was bare but it
    may not be completely bare. I recommend a light stripping using
    formby's furniture refinishing solvent with fine steelwool, followed
    by a light sanding with 440 grit paper or even lighter. Be sure
    to remove any an all hardware (tuners, pickups, scratch plates,etc.)
    before starting. 
    
    	Once the instrument is completely bare and free of scratches
    you can stain it if you want to. Since most guitar bodies are made
    from hard wood, they don't usually take stain very well. If you
    want a dark finish you may have to apply several coats of stain
    to get the desired color. Instrument manufacturers usually spray
    stain on to get different effects like sunbursts, and Blonde finishes.
    Stain that is sprayed on usually sits on top of the wood where
    stain applied by hand has to soak into the wood to be effective.
                                                               
    	Next you can seal the finish with tongue oil, or spray it with
    lacquer. If you use oil, you will be handrubbing the oil in with
    a soft cloth. If you are using lacquer, you will want to hang the
    instrument up somewhere that provides plenty if ventilation. Don't
    take any chances with lacquer. It can be dangerous to work with
    for two reasons. First of all if you work without adequate ventilation,
    the fumes could knock you out. Also, lacquere is very volitile,
    so be careful with any kind of spark, like a lit cigarette.  
    
    	Lacquer has to be sprayed in several very thin coats since it
    is so watery. However, it dries in a matter of minutes, so you can
    apply several coats in a few hours time. Unless you have acces to
    professional spraying equipment you will have to settle for spray
    cans. Look for a nationally advertised brand. Once you finish spraying
    the lacquer on if you have any imperfections in the finish, like
    small bubbles, or orange peel effect you can hand rub most of them
    out with a fine rubbing compound. Tres Amigos sells a hand rubbing
    kit that contains both course and fine compounds and instructions
    for handrubbing. 
    
    	I went through this process with a Telecaster a few years ago.
    The results were pretty satisfactory. I am just now getting around
    to removing the imperfections with compound but like they say,
    Good things come to those who wait.
    
    						Good luck
    
    P.S. if you have any questions write them into this note and I will
    try to answer.
    
    							Mark Jacques
    							LM02/ Marlboro
    
    

    	You mention Formby's refinishing Solvent and my question is
    whether or not this has any effect on the glue used in construction
    of guitars? Alot of solid bodies are constructed as two piece bodys
    and I would be concerned with it becoming a 2 piece guitar. :-<
    	Also what do you recommend for a filler for the Porisity(?)
    of the wood?
    
    							Rick
    

    All I can say is that I used Formby's furniture refinishing solvent
    to strip the "Blonde" finish off of my Telecaster. I believe the
    body is two or three piece ash. I had no problem with de-laminating.
    Maybe I was just lucky. Formby's is much much more gentle than
    something like stripeze. You can get Formby's on your hand without
    burning your hands.
    
    	As far as filler/sealer, if you plan to use urethane, I would
    suggest using 1 or two coats of clear lacquere first. This will
    prevent the grain from being dragged out resulting in a raised
    grain effect, which of course is undesireble.

    I finally finished buffing out my Telecaster which I spoke about
    in previous replies. I bought a Tres Amigo's polishing kit which
    consist of coarse and fine compounds and started buffing with the
    coarse. After a few hours of rubbing I realized that I was getting
    nowhere fast. So I went out and bought some Dupont Polishing compound.
    This similar to rubbing compound except not quite so course. I found
    that the polishing compound worked good and spent a couple hours
    per night for about a week and a half rubbing until I rubbed out
    all of the imperfections in my finish (had lots of little bubbles
    and a kind of orange peel surface quality). After I used the
    polishing compound to remove the gross imperfections, I switched
    to the Tres Amigo kit and quickly finished the job to my extreme
    satisfaction. The finish now looks like a professional did it. I'm
    sure a pro would do a much better job spraying and would not need
    to do half the buffing I did. Plus a pro would probably use an
    electric buffing wheel to speed the job up. The end result,
    however looks superb and was well worth the time I spent. 
    
    	To the guy with the Bass who started this file,
    
    Did you start working on your bass yet. If so, what method did
    you decide to use. Hope I was of some help.
    
    							Good Luck
    							Mark Jacques
    							LM02, Marlboro,Ma.
    

    Thanks to everyone who replied; there is a lot of good information
    here.  As for my own project, I've pretty much decided to go with
    just a Tung Oil finish over the bare wood.  The body is alder, which
    I believe is a fairly soft wood, so I anticipated some trouble getting
    it to stain evenly.  In any event, I looked at some stains and really
    couldn't find one I liked.  I also considered poly-urethane, but
    decided I preferred a more natural feel to the finish.
    
    As an aside, I had a terrible time trying to locate a piece of alder
    to try out some stains on.  I checked with every lumber yard and
    exotic wood supplier in New England without any luck.  Apparently
    alder is a cheap west coast wood and there is no demand for it around
    here (except for crazy old guitar lovers like me).  I find it
    interesting that those great old Fender bodies were probably made
    that way because it was the cheapest wood around.

    /rick    

>    As an aside, I had a terrible time trying to locate a piece of alder
>    to try out some stains on.  I checked with every lumber yard and
>    exotic wood supplier in New England without any luck.  Apparently
>>    alder is a cheap west coast wood and there is no demand for it around
>    here (except for crazy old guitar lovers like me).  I find it
>    interesting that those great old Fender bodies were probably made
>    that way because it was the cheapest wood around.
    
    This is an old note, but Alder is REAL common around the southwest and
    west coast.  Many people use it as a substitute to Pine.  Alder has
    more red tones in it than Pine though.  It is a little harder than Pine
    too.
    
    Mike

	As far as the reasons why Fender chose the wood he did; it was
	because he could get fairly good quality Maple, Ash and Alder
	fairly cheap. He paid for the Walnut and Rosewood only when he
	had to. Fender was into mass production, not necessarily 
	exotic woods. Maple, Ash and Alder were fairly cheap in
	southern California, so that's what he used. Funny how these
	are considered by some to be the 'best woods for guitars'.

							Jens

    My walnut-stained ES-345 is a nice playing guitar, but not particularly
    attractive. I've been thinking about stripping it down and refinishing
    it myself. I haven't decided yet whether I would want to stain it a
    different shade, or go with a solid color - a lot depends on how good
    the wood looks after I strip it. The replies to this note have answered
    a lot of my refinishing questions, but I still have one. If I decide to
    go with a solid color finish, what do I do about the bindings?
    
    The bindings are ivory color, and I saw a very nice looking Les Paul
    that had a pure white finish with ivory bindings. It seemed to me like
    they must set the bindings in after they apply the lacquer. If not, how
    would you get the surface of the lacquer to come even with the binding
    material without a bump? Do you think I could just put tape on the
    bindings, spray on the lacquer, and then feather it down some at the
    edges to get the joint reasonably smooth? Or maybe just let some of the
    lacquer cover the binding material, and then sand it off later?
    Am I making sense?
    
    As a side question, Mark suggested using Formby's furniture refinisher
    to strip the old lacquer. Do you think this would damage the plastic in
    the bindings?
    
    - Ram

    
    It's just MHO, but unless you're very good at refinishing, I don't
    think you should refinish the Gibson.  I've seen too many guitars with
    lousy refinish jobs.  
    
    A friend of mine stripped his black Les Paul and refinished it himself. 
    He then paid some wood shop to refinish it again.  (It did
    come out great, though.)
    
    If you want, I'll see if I can get the name of the shop.  Others can
    probably provide recommendations as well. 
    
    
    Kevin          

    The binding is applied before the guitar is finished. The finish is
    then scraped off--look closely at the binding and you'll see the tool
    marks. The final coat of clear varnish is left on.
    
    When your guitar was new, the binding was pure white. The varnish has
    yellowed over it. Most people who collect guitars consider this a
    desirable trait and find guitars with nicely yellowed binding to be
    more attractive.
    
    Refinshing a bound guitar is best left for experts. An amateur refinish
    reduces the value of an instrument like this rather substantially.
    
    Danny W.

    
    
    	About how much would a pro refinishing job cost?
    
    -Tom
    

    I appreciate the advice from both Kevin and Danny, and I'm still
    debating with myself whether to do this or not. I'd be interested to
    know how much the place Kevin referred to would charge.
    
    It may be worth mentioning that I'm an experienced woodworker, and I
    used to work in furniture and cabinet shops spraying lacquer finishes,
    so I'm not a complete novice. I'm not too concerned about the resale
    value of the guitar either, because (for example) I stopped in Mr.
    Music in Allston and they had a pile of similar used ES-335's and 345's
    for about $600, and I can't imagine that anything I could do (or not
    do) to mine would significantly change the value either way, (other
    than destroying it entirely). It doesn't really seem to have any value
    as a collectable, since it's already been altered somewhat (Grover
    pegs, stop tailpiece). Plus it's got some "buckle" damage to the finish
    on the back, and the finish on the top has a fair amount of checking.
    
    Any more opinions on it?
    
    - Ram

    Hey, Ram, how's it going, eh?
    
    When I did the front of my old Ibanez Artist ( you remember the one
    I cut a hole into because it was getting to heavy? ) I used stain,
    polyethelene, and furniture wax. It was wicked time consuming because
    of the spray ... sand ... spray ... sand ... routine. If you keep the
    bindings intact, the polyethelene is clear and with proper sanding
    gives a reasonable gloss finish. It's pretty tough, as well ( it's what
    they use on hardwood floors ).
    
    You'll be separated from your guitar for about 2-3 weeks, as you have
    to wait 24 hours between coats.
    
    						Good Luck,
    							John.

    Hi Ram!
    	I refinished the top of my Hagstrom Swede about 8 yeaers ago & it
    came out absolutely perfect.  It has a clear finish that was in good
    shape, but I wanted the top black.  I disassembled the guitar, masked
    the neck and the bindings, and sanded the face - not down to the wood,
    but just to where any minor crazing had dissappeared.  That way I
    didn't have to worry about re sealing the pores, etc.  I think I
    STARTED with 320 wet&dry & went down to 600.  Then I simply sprayed
    several coats of black lacquer over the previous base.  WARNING : If
    your original finish was something other than lacquer, this could
    result in a disaster!  As you may or may not know, lacquer will lift
    many other finishes, and will not adhere properly to many others. 
    However, if your original finish is lacquer, and you want to go to a
    solid finish, then this approach will save you lots of work.  When it
    was done, I removed the tape, cleaned up the edges of the binding with
    and x-acto knife, sanded lightly & gave it a few coats of clear lacquer
    to give a smooth transition over the bindings.  Never had any problems
    with it . . . except that I dropped a mike on it a couple of days after
    putting it together 8^{}
    
    						Joe

    Laquer comes in 2 varieties, and to mix them is DISASTER!!
    NitroCellulose, and Silicon.
    Stew-mac sells aeresol cans of Behlen's Nitro laquer in black, white
    and clear and the stuff is Mega-Excellent. Shines like CRAZY.
    But you can't apply it over silicon or anything else. 
    Or if's it's humid. 
    Dries in a few minutes. I just used a can for the front of a speaker
    cab or 2, and when done touched up a black Floyd tremelo, the trem
    looks new. 

    Hi,
    
    Yes, I'm still here, and still thinking :'). Thanks for the last couple
    of tips, it could save me a lot of time if I decide to go ahead. I'm
    not sure I shouldn't take it all the way down to the wood, however,
    because the existing lacquer is checked pretty deeply, and it seems
    likely that would propagate up through anything I put on top of it.
    I'll have to look into the fast drying lacquer, that might make the job
    possible for me - I only have one electric.
    
    I know you can get a good finish with urethane, but lacquer has a
    few advantages that have been mentioned in previous replies. Mainly,
    it's easier to get a really smooth finish, because you can apply a
    number of very thin coats (dries fast), and sand and buff between
    coats. on the downside, you need to have a very well ventilated and
    protected area to work in - my biggest stumbling block at the moment.
    
    - Ram

    I had no trouble with the spray can outside on a nice day

    I am currently in the process of refinishing my Warlock.  A friend of
    mine has a Jackson called the Rock which has a granite look and feel to
    it.  I have found a paint called Fleck Stone which produces a finish
    somewhat similar to this.  I am wondering if anyone out there has seen
    or tried this stuff before and what their results were.  It seems to me
    that with this type of a finish you wouldn't have to pay that much
    attention to the detail as you would with a glossy finish.  Any info
    would be appreciated.
    
    Byron

    Don't know anything about guitar finishing, but that finish your
    talking about looks AWESOME under stage lights.

    I use Fleck Stone for modeling granite on my Pike (model railroad).
    
    The stuff works excellent for this application.  You can get pretty
    crazy with it, start doing clocks, fire extinguishers, dogs, children,
    faux stone everything!
    
    It is super easy to apply.  There are two parts, the spreckly finish
    and a clear protective coat as the faux spreckly stuff rubs off pretty
    easily.  And, there's the caveat.  On a guitar that is subject to much
    handling, I'm not sure that the clear coat supplied would be durable
    enough for a guitar, although several might do the trick.  As an
    alternative, other clear coats could be tried that are thicker like the
    polyurathane types but, I'd test 'm for compatibilty on something else
    first!
    
    For $12 for the Fleck Stone, why don't ya give it a shot a let us all
    know how it works out.  btw, one can goes a loooong way.
    
    Regards

    Dear g-noters:

    I have a Peavey Midibase that has a rather nasty ding in the
    back of the body (enough of a ding to crack the finish where
    the ding is). The finish is white and seems to be several layers.

    I'd like to repair this or get it repaired. I don't want to
    refinish the entire ax; just fix the ding.

    Your thoughts on how I might go about this are most appreciated...

    -b

        Couple of  ideas,  Brian  -  you can get a refinishing kit from
        places like Stew-Mac, complete with laquers/hot knife etc which
        will, with care, do a decent job.  Another way is to use "Super
        glue" if the ding has not broken the colour coat - just drip in
        a couple of drops at a  time  and let set until you have a hard
        surface above the present surface level and  then carefully cut
        it back to level with water stones and polish out.
        
        Andy
        

    
    Thanks Andy!
    
    Unfortunately, the ding has broken the color coat... so option
    #1 is probably the only choice...
    
    -b

    
    	Many pro repair guys use super-glue and recommend it highly. 
    I use it occasionally for quick repairs but I don't feel real 
    comfortable using it for something like this. I would suggest 
    you fill the crack with a burn-in kit, and then do a touch-up
    with lacquer. I would experiment with white lacquer and add a
    little yellow pigment to it if needed to mellow it out to match
    the original finish as closely as possible. I'm not sure if 
    Peavey uses Nitro-cellulous lacquer or acrylic. This is an 
    important thing to know since the 2 types are not compatable
    with each other. 
    
    	Another trick you can use to get a good touch-up is to
    "reflow" the lacquer. This is done with a mixture of solvents
    including naptha and lacquer thinner. I don't have the exact
    recipe for this, but you can buy a product known as "blush
    remover" that will reflow lacquer finishes. It is mainly used
    to release moisture trapped below the lacquer, but it is also
    good for getting touch-ups to blend into the original finish. 
    
    	So the procedure should be as follows:
    
    	1. Fill the crack with a burn-in kit and make sure the 
    	resulting finish is level. 
    
    	2. Blend white lacquer with transparent yellow lacquer and
    	spray on a test-piece to check for good color match. Once you
    	match the color, spray the area of the guitar that needs the
    	touch-up. Spray an area that is larger than the repair itself,
    	perhaps a circular area of about 2-3" diameter. 
    
    	hint: if you do not have access to spray equipment, get yourself
    	a "PreVal" spray kit. This consists of a small (6 oz) glass jar
    	with an aerosol propellant cartridge that screws on top. These
    	kits are very cheap (less than $5.00) and are available at just
    	about any paint store (ie: Spags). Make sure to thin the lacquer
    	1:1 with thinner, as the PreVal propellant does not have much
    	pressure. 
    
    	3. Once the lacquer dries (~30 minutes) Spray blush remover over 
        the area to flow the old and new lacquers together into one 
        continuous coat.
    
    	4. Allow plenty of time to cure. New nitro-cellulous lacquer
    	finishes require 30 days to dry at room temp. I would give the
    	touch-up at least 1 week to dry thouroughly. Once the finish
    	dries, you can wet-sand with 600 grit paper, then 1000 grit, 
    	then move one to step 5.
    
    	5. Polish the area with MacGuires Mirror-glaze #4 course polish, 
    	followed by MacGuires #7 polish. MacGuires #9 (swirl remover)
    	may be used if you desire a super high-gloss finish. 
    
    	Stewart MacDonald is a good source for these materials, but
        they are a little on the pricey side, and you will have to 
    	buy a lot more materials than you really need. This may turn
    	out to be a lot more expensive than you thought. A complete
    	burn-in kit will cost about $20, a small (1 pint) can of lacquer
    	is about $8.00, the Blush remover is about $5.00/can. The Macguires
    	Mirror-glaze can be found at some automotive parts stores, and
    	again it's not cheap, but I find this is the best stuff you
    	can find for cleaning up older instruments. It even works great
        on cars :^). You might consider having a pro repair shop do this
    	touch-up. It may actually be cheaper than buying all of the 
    	materials and doing it yourself. Rich MacDuffie did a touch-up
    	for me on a Gibson guitar with a Cherry finish. The results were
    	so good, I couldn't find the original scrathes. 
     
        Mark