Conference napalm::guitar

you're right, the compensation for the skinny strings on the bass side is
wrong.

but the 12 string sound is based on having two strings not quite in tune
with each other anyway. with the lower strings tuned in octaves it isn't so
important, but if you tune the high strings in perfect unison you lose a lot
of the 12 string effect. so this out-of-tune sound is really a desirable
characteristic in a 12-string. all the 12-string players i know tune up to
perfection and then deliberately de-tune some or all of their strings.
exactly which strings to de-tune and by how much is a matter of hot debate.

also, not many people play a lot on the high frets on the low strings of a
12-string where the intonation problems are worst. this is partly because
the strings get harder to fret, but even on an instrument with great action
it isn't done becuase it's not the 12-string style to do it. like putting a
dobro into standard tuning, and flat-picking it with no slide. sure it can
be done, but that isn't what it's for.

don.

    Thanks Don.
    
    It's reasurring to know that my many deliberations on this have
    some essence.
    
    Richard
    

    If a 12-string were ever in perfect tune, it would pull itself
    apart from the sympathetic vibrations, anyway.
    
    (Joke originally by Ed Trickett about hammered dulcimers, which
    are also murder to get in tune.)

    
    
    	To me "That 12 string sound" comes from the subtle *phase*
    	difference between the string pairs which are closely tuned.
    	It sounds "fatter" (well, because it is...) for the same reason
    	that a six will when played through a chorus or phasor effect.
    
    	I remember the sound was striking when I first heard one...
                            
    	I own a yamaha FG-260 (?) and can tune it EADGBE with no problem.
    	Tough guitar -
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    I recently borrowed a friends Takamine 12 string (BTW - plays and sounds
    like a dream).  I've never played a 12 string before but love the
    sound.
    
    I managed to figure out that his strings are relatively tuned down
    the 12th fret (scale).  This is how I was taught to tune a 6 string
    (relative tuning down the 5th fret).  
    
    The odd thing I noticed that Strings 1 & 2 were tuned together (E)
    and strings 3 & 4 were also tuned together.  Strings 5-12 were all
    12 notes apart.  Is this typical?
    
    Mike

    Yep, that's the way most people tune a 12 string. Watch out tho.. The
    additional stress on the guitar neck because of the added 6 strings
    seems to make 12 string guitars real suseptable to sudden changes in
    humidity & how it affects thier being in tune when you want to use them.

								    Jens
    

    It can be a good idea to tune your 12 down a full tone i.e.
    D-G-C-F-A-D and then using a capo on the 2nd fret to bring it up
    to pitch.
    
    I tend to leave mine at the regular pitch, but use a very light
    guage set of strings, starting on a .008.
    
    BTW, I don't use my 12 very often, preferring a 6-string - is it
    a good idea to de-tune the 12 between sessions (I play it, on average,
    for a few consecutive days, then leave it for a few weeks - it's
    a sound I have to be 'in the mood' for), or does the regular changing
    of tension cause any damage to the guitar?
    
    Bob

    Has anyone in here managed to get a "12 string sound" using their
    effects processors on a 6 string?  Greg House and I were talking about
    this offline a few weeks ago, and now my curiousity is peaked. 
    
    He suggested a delay and pitch shift, has anyone tried this?

    Mike    

If you only use strings 1 and 2 (ha, ha) I was told that chorus
produces an effect which is mathematically identical to two strings on
the same pitch, slightly detuned.

Of course, you have to get the correct parameters on the chorus.  I
don't know what those would be.

A harmonizer would probably help, too.

Steph

    The ART SGE has 3  factory presets that clone the 12 string sound
    pretty good...  On 12 string, one bright 12, and one over-driven
    12...  Sounds pretty good to me.
    
    jc (Who has no patients with 12 strings !)

    On my twelve string sound I use chorus and a bit of flange thru my ADA
    MP1. Of course it is in stereo and that makes a nice swirling effect
    thru my cab. 

    RE: -1 
    
    I'll bet that sounds great!  I've been wanting an acoustic electric;
    Iv'e always liked that tone of an amplified acoustic real wet with
    chorus......gives me a woody!
    
    one day.....sigh