Conference napalm::guitar

    I've used all but #2, flat pick with fingers...tried but couldn't
    get the hang of it.   Like you, it depends which guitar and what
    song I'm playing.  When I'm playing 12 string I almost always use
    a flat pick unless I'm finger picking...then I use thumb, index
    and middle (metal) finger picks.  I almost never use anything other
    then my bare fingers on my classical, even when playing pop/rock
    stuff (though there was a time when I did when the classical was
    my only instrument).  My 6 string I use mostly a flat pick except
    when finger picking.  I used to use finger picks for Travis stlye
    on the 6 string but now bare fingers almost exclusively.
    
    _stew-

    I use the flat pick with fingers exclusively.  I pick with fingers
    two, three, and four.  I tried all the other combinations, but each
    one lacked vesatility in one or two areas.  It did take a long time
    to get the hang of 'flat pick + fingers', but it surely is versatile.
    Actually, I'm still trying to get the hang of it...that's the fun
    part!
    
    When I play Dobro or pedal steel, I use a plastic thumb pick and
    National fingerpicks.
    
    By the way, what style of picks do people use?  I play with heavy
    mandolin picks (the small teardrop shaped guys).  I used to play
    with medium guage 'rounded triangle' shaped picks (not the huge
    triangles!), but they eventually felt too big.  A teacher of mine
    swore by the Min'd Pick, which is made from stone, is very thick
    (like 3/16 inches) and very rounded.  He claimed it eliminated the
    sharp attack of the note as it was played and gave the guitar a
    rounder sound.  I tried it and was duly impressed: it did seem to
    smooth out my playing.  On the other hand, they cost dollars each
    (which means I'd be out hundreds of dollars in the course of year's
    playing, 'cause I lose 'em!) and were bulky.  Comments?
    
    Adios,
    Johnny Jupiter
    
    

    	I think every one has a few various types of picks they
    feel more comfortable with.
    
	Finger picks and I have never gotten along. I can't use em
    It's like I got nails I should be cutting.  I'd rather use my bare 
    fingers.  The feel just has to be there.  When I finger pick, I use 
    all five appendages, so feel is very important to me in this instance.
    
    	When I play the Elec.  I use a medium (small cut) tear drop.
    The edges have to be smooth or I drop em coz of their size, so I
    go through alot of them.  I used to use thins, but I'd split em
    in half as soon as I'd cut for a lead.  I guess my attack is too
    hard for a thin to hold up under, but I liked the lightning fast
    reaction the thin gives.  The mediums are fast too, but not quite
    as quick as the thins.  The heavies,,, forget it for me, I break
    strings with those.
    
    	For acustic use I use the Jim Dunlop flat picks when I use a pick
    at all.  Those are also the medium gage.

    	I think most guitarist like their picks 'custom chewed'.  I
    can't really use em once they get roughed up.  I need em as smooth
    as glass.  A gross lasts about 6 months.

    
    /ray
    

    
	Reply to: < Note 101.2 by PISCES::KELLYJ >

<        By the way, what style of picks do people use?  I play with heavy
<    mandolin picks (the small teardrop shaped guys).  I used to play
<    with medium guage 'rounded triangle' shaped picks (not the huge
<    triangles!), but they eventually felt too big.  A teacher of mine
<    swore by the Min'd Pick, which is made from stone, is very thick
<    (like 3/16 inches) and very rounded.  He claimed it eliminated the
<    sharp attack of the note as it was played and gave the guitar a
<    rounder sound.  I tried it and was duly impressed: it did seem to
<    smooth out my playing.  On the other hand, they cost dollars each
<    (which means I'd be out hundreds of dollars in the course of year's
<    playing, 'cause I lose 'em!) and were bulky.  Comments?

	per my last note, I use the same small picks you do.  I swear
    	by em, and I've used them now for the past 15 years.  It's all
    	I use on electric.
    	
    	I tried the Mind pick.  That lasted for about 15 seconds, I
    	gave it back to the sales guy, said, "gee thanks"
    
    	I didn't like em, at all.  Was virtually like playing with a
    	rock for a pick.  (Billy Gibbons uses a peso.  Change your strings
    	often orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..)

    
    	Like that name .. "Johnny Jupiter"  Kinda like "Teenage Jesus"

    /ray

    I do nearly every style except to use finger picks, which I could
    never get used to.  For some reason, I never found it very hard
    to adapt.
    
    Mostly I stay with a flat pick in the thumb and first finger while
    using second, third and fourth fingers.  The only disadvantage I've
    encountered with that is that it's easy to be lazy and finger pick
    what should really be cross-picked.   I have take that short cut
    rather frequently even though I've worked pretty hard on my cross
    picking.
    
    I switch picks depending on what I'm doing.   To me, it's not just
    a matter of comfort but sound as well.  There's a great difference
    in the sound generated by a thin pick and a medium pick.
    
    In general though I use a medium pick, regular size.  I have a great
    preference for smooth plastic picks.  I can't stand nylon picks
    (like Jim Dunlops).  They produce too much friction which slows
    me down, and are far more subject to roughing (from pick scratches,
    etc.).  Oddly enough, if there's one pick I prefer to others it's
    the black medium Carvin picks that came with my guitar.  They are
    the right thickness, shape and don't seem to get rough quite as
    quickly.   I only have a few left, as I have been trying to save
    them.
    
    But I keep a wide variety of plectrum around including stone picks,
    quarters, copper picks, mandolin picks, different thicknesses, etc.
    I have one particular one that is VERY worn and almost round which
    I find particularly good for doing chicken picken, harmonics.  I've
    saved this one over the years for that one purpose.

    	db

	I mostly use the flat-pick and fingers method myself.  However
	with the dobro it's thumb pick and finger picks just like JJ (-.?).

	I used to have one of those min'd picks myself.  Never could get
	used to it.  For one thing it was too long.  It made playing
	kind of awkward.  Mostly I use the little Gibson jazz picks.
	I found one type of pick that I liked a lot better several years
	ago in Blue Mountain Guitars in W. Lebanon, N.H. but when I stopped
	by recently to see if I could get any more they didn't have any.
	They were Dunlop picks that were a basic Fender shape but about
	75% of the size.  I have about 2-3 left, so when I lose them....

	I came across a real unusual pick one day that my brother had.
	It looked like it was made to get that ZZ Top sound.  It had
	little fins(?) on the side that you could mute the string after
	you plucked it.  (The fleshy part of the finger always worked
	fine for me.)  Strange what they'll come up with.  Anybody remember
	the magnetic picks they made back in the late 60's??

	-gary

    re:.0
    
    It mostly depends on the song. For strumming, I use just a flatpick;
    for finger-picking, I use all bare fingers. *Occasionally*, I use
    a plastic thumb-pick and metal finger-picks, but those times are
    few and far between. Note that I play acoustic exclusively.
    
    re:.2
    
    I use light gauge picks, normally the large triangular picks,
    especially when I need "power" or volume. When I need a more
    delicate touch greater speed, I use the smaller, tear-drop picks.
    
    I've also tried felt picks, which are advantageous when you need
    some heavy strumming, but want to keep the volume down. It doesn't
    take much to turn them into mush, though, so I don't use them very
    often.
    
    --- jerry

I use a flatpick (extra heavy) most of the time, and bare fingers when
fingerpicking.  This goes for both electric and acoustic.  Unlike some
previous responders, I prefer the heavy picks for "speed playing" because
I always know where the end of the pick is going to be!  The flimsy little
thin picks seem to spend most of their time "rebounding" from being bent,
and the tip isn't where you expect it.  They (the thins) also seem to make
too much noise (they "click"), and they tear after a few songs.  Of
course, I probably use too sharp an attack or something, though I don't
usually break many strings.  Hmm... 

I also use a pretty wierd picking style, but it seems to work for me:  I
hold the pick between my thumb and middle finger (sometimes I actually get
my index finger involved, too), and either rest my hand on the bridge, or
not rest it at all (only when playing real fast or strumming, etc...).
This allows me to mute the strings however I want, *and* get some neat
affects by adding harmonics with my pick hand.

Jerry, I think those felt picks you mentioned are pretty much for use on
bass, so the player can use a pick without getting a sharp attack sound.
I've used them on bass, but they're usually so thick they don't work too
well on the gee-tar. 

It always amazed me to see someone like George Thorogood playing hard on
an electric doing fancy leads, slide, etc, with a good strong attack,
while not using a pick.  And getting all of his fingers involved.  Ahh..
More things to practice!

-- Sam

    re:.8
    
    I wouldn't be surprised that the felt picks are for bass. The
    thickness never bothered me because I always used them for simple
    strumming without really flat-*picking* (except maybe the low E).
    
    --- jerry

    re: .8
    
    Sounds like your picking technique is very similar to Steve Morses.
    
    I like thick picks for the same reasons you do, but I use mediums
    because (at least to my ears) when you use thick picks you lose
    a lot of high end in the attack.
    
    I do have a supply of Fender Extra Thicks (which are slightly
    hard to find) which I use every so often.  (These are so thick that
    one pick could probably last you a year.)   They were given to me
    by John Macey (who uses them all the time) who is a really incredible
    studio guitarist in NY that sold a record, "Meltdown", through Guitar
    Player a few years ago.  He has incredible speed and attributes
    a portion of that speed to the extra thick picks (as you do).
    
    	db

    My picking style has been developed primarily on 12-string acoustic
    guitar, and works best with a 12-string. I use a flat pick (Fender
    medium or equivalent), and also pick with my third and fourth
    fingers depending on material. The flat pick is used for a
    combination melodic picking and rhythm (partial) strums - similar
    to what the late Steve Goodman used to do on some songs; the
    third and fourth fingers usually come in when I'm looking for
    particular two- or three-string plucked chords ("the pinch")
    thrown in.
    
    On six-string, I primarily finger-pick sans picks. Finger picking
    style concentrates on thumb, first, and second fingers with the ring
    finger employed sporadically (if I do the same music twice, there's
    no guarantee I'll use the same fingers both times), and my style
    (folk-influenced) is Cotton/Travis-esque, though I tend to do more
    in the way of melodic variations than "pattern", which usually means
    that the "inner" strings are used more than the "patterns" dictate.
    Also, I do a fair amount of semi-chord pinching, similar to what
    I do with a flat pick on the 12-string.

    I use several different styles of picking. For finger-style picking
    I use the thumb, 1st, 2nd & 3rd on the right hand. For fast,
    malmsteen-style runs, I hold ALL my fingers straight out, with the
    pick flat and even against the strings. For Lynch-style harmonic
    laiden runs I reverse the direction of the pick, 45 degrees in the
    opposite direction and stick my other fingers straight out.
    Blues stuff is usually done with circle-style picking and the hand
    closed. My right hand moves a lot. Sometimes it's wrapped around
    the lead pickup, sometimes I anchor it on the bridge, sometimes
    it's anchored by the pinky on the guitar, sometimes it's free floating.
    wjb

    Here's a question about picking style that has nagged at me as long
    as I've been playing guitar:
    
    Where should most of your picking action originate from?  Wrist
    motion or arm motion?
    
    I've asked this question of literally some of the world's best pickers
    (DiMeola, Morse, etc. mostly at clinics) and there doesn't seem
    to be any concensus.
    
    Most people seem to be in favor of picking mostly from the wrist,
    and I've tried to focus on doing that.  However, I've noticed that
    to achieve speed (only ONE goal among many) it is often easier to
    pick partially from the elbow.    For example, I find it much easier
    to do a mandolin-style tremolo (if you consider tremolo's to be
    an example of the simplest kind of speed picking) by using elbow motion.

    	db

    
		RE:101.13    
 	 <  Where should most of your picking action originate from?  Wrist
	 <  motion or arm motion?

    
    	Don't know what it supposed to be, but I use the wrist.
    	Gotta keep it loose.  Arm motion is just too slow.  there
    	is too much to move for me.
    
    /ray
    

    I've noticed that 90% of my picking action comes from my thumb and
    first finger moving in a little circle as I pick. It really aggravates
    me, as it cuts way down on speed. I guess it does help with, uh,
    elocution though. How do you learn to pick with your wrist? Every
    time I try, I forget about what I'm playing and concentrate on keeping
    my damn thumb and finger from moving. I guess it's just a bad habit
    I never got rid of.
    
    -Dave

I think the Maestro (Andres Segovia) had the answer, but I'm not sure how it
applies to plectrum as opposed to finger picking. The primary rule is
eliminate excess motion. Whatever motion doesn't directly translate into
making the string move is excess. I'm sure you could spend millions on
biophysical research to find the minimum motion, but in theory I'd say you
use elbow motion to select which string you're going to attack, finger
motion to control the angle of attack, and wrist motion to actually move the
pick back and forth over the string. Maybe you'd use more elbow motion if
you're playing multiple strings at once.

Don.

    Re .14:
    Ray, I have two students who play amazingly fast legato lines, and
    they both strictly use arm motion to generate articulation. They
    keep their wrists and fingers perfectly straight, all the work is
    done with the arm. I agree it's a strange technique, but hey, it
    works so why not.
    
    WJB_they_didn't_learn_that_from_me_(^8

    RE: .15   Do you anchor your hand when you play? Keeping your
              hand free can help in staying relaxed and eliminating
              unnecessary motion.
    
    I think .16 had the right idea about Segovia and classical guitar.
    I spent years studying classical guitar, and spent a lot of time
    working on eliminating unnecessary motion in my right hand. It
    does make a difference in your playing, both in accuracy and
    speed. How to apply that to playing with a pick I never really
    worked at.
    When I play other stuff though (electric or acoustic) I usually
    use a pick and 2nd and 3rd fingers. I find I can get a lot of
    different sounds by alternating use of just pick and pick and
    fingers. You can get the sharp attack of the pick but still
    roll or pluck chords for a softer sound.
    If something works though, it's the result that matters.
    
    Bob

    
    Question for you fast pickers out there....
    
    Been getting my picking up to scratch and have finally got a little 2
    octave picked lick down thats FAST (speed isn't everything I know but 
    quick picking is a tool I wish to have in my musicial toolbox). Problem
    is, I'm having difficulty moving my now found burst of energy into other 
    licks.
    
    Now, I'm not a real slow picker, but I'm not particualy fast either. I 
    can play legato or tapping licks that are quite quick so I know what my 
    left hand is capable of but I *still* haven't got this picking thing
    nailed yet and its driving me nuts!!!!
    
    -tony

>       <<< Note 101.19 by NEWOA::DALLISON "Six string madman for hire" >>>

After a three-year hiatus due to tendinitis, I got a lot of help from 
the Stylus Pick.  It's a training pick, not really for playing, and 
comes with a set of picking exercises that give you a good workout.
You might have to buy some kind of special package to get the whole 
set of exercises.  Somewhere in the conference there's a Stylus topic 
with ordering information.  

It takes some self-discipline to use it effectively, but it really can 
help develop your speed and control.  I get a lot more out of a practice
session if I start out with some Stylus exercises.

Bob

    
    I've got a couple of them but I haven't dug them out for a year 
    or so. Might try them again sometime.
    
    -tony