Conference napalm::guitar

    
    	You're talking about Steve Hackett's *signature* sound, I believe.
    You know, that sustaining lead he gets? Althought I dont know how
    he does it *specific*, I can think of what you'd need to attempt
    to recreate that sound.
    
    	First off, I dont even know what kind of guitar he uses, but
    I'd be willing to bet its HEAVY (in weight, that is). I'd also suspect
    that it's a Gibson. I've tried a "certain" Gibson against other
    units and found that it would out sustain them all - even the Music
    Man with it's 1/4" wide pole pieces. Sustain is in the guitar, I
    mean, the whole hunk of wood becomes part of the sound producing
    effort. Did you ever notice that when you tune a Gibson to proper
    pitch - the whole thing comes alive??
    
    	Another trick that would lead to the Hackett sound is what Jerry
    Garcia does - run your pickup output "wide open" thru the effects
    and then back up to the guitar for volume and tone control. In this
    way, you could do those "soft attacks" which sound like a violin.
    Of course, you could always use a volume pedal *after* the effects.
    
    	The "right" combination of effects - either a compressor or
    overdrive or "Bigg-Muff" type thing would be in order for low volume
    sustaining. What's "right" is what works best for you - thy 'em
    all. The circuit order is important too, no point putting the
    compressor *after* the overdrive, which compresses the signal somewhat
    anyway.
    
    	A good amp with a "sensitive" loudspeaker (the ones with the
    astronomical magnets) will help to. Santana claims he can get infinite
    sustain from his Boogie at low volumes, whatever that is to him
    by now. 
    
    	I always wanted to try a echo-plex with a reverse envelope
    controlling the echo count for a sustainer. (pat. pending!)
    
    	Later
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    Re .0 & "every breath you take" guitar sound. Go back and re-read
    that BOSS ad, it is VERY decieving. The ad sez, this combination
    of effects is *similar* to the sound achieved on E.B.Y.T. Really,
    Summers uses marshall amps for fuzz, an Electro-Harmonics chorus
    unit, and compression and delay were provided by the studio.
    
    BOSS has a number of those ads, pertaining to certain 'desired'
    sounds of todays artists, they have one for Eddie Van Halen...it
    uses a Boss HM2, a Boss Super overdrive, a Boss GE7, and a BOSS
    DD2 delay....ya think eddie uses this set-up? Wrong! But some crazed
    Van Halen freak will probably not read the ad too well and go out
    and spend $500.+ on effects thinking he's coming home to sound like
    EVH.
    
    WJB_who_didn't_mean_to_sound_like_he's_flaming_but_thought_he'd_let_
    you_know_anyway.

    Yeah, those ads are definitely shady.
    
    I doubt that anyone like Summers would use one of those box-type
    analog delays for recording (or anything).  These people can probably
    get the best HQ digital delays for free.
    
    	db-who's-real-big-into-delay-stuff

    I found thhat patching my compressor (MXR DynaComp) as the first
    element in the pprocessing chain really helped the sound I got out
    of other signal processing gear.  In particular, the distortion
    device I use relly seems to like a nice fat compressed signal.
    Experiment with the order in which these devices are patched; let
    me know if you find something extra-terrestrial!
    
    A related trick: I was doing some tapes for a guy last weekend at
    a local studio.  The engineer used a gate (Kepex GainBrain) with
    the bass player.  Part of the bass signal was routed to a channel
    in the board that was gated by the kick drum.  When the kick drum
    was played, it opened the gate for the bass.  When mixed in with
    the 'dry' bass channel, the effect was to give the rhythm tracks
    a very tight groove, because the pulse of the bass was locked in
    with the kick drum.  It required the drummer to very tasty and straight
    on the kick drum part (not too busy).
    
    One final trick before I go: This one's DDL related and works best
    with a type DDL that displays the delay time, although that feature
    is not necessary.  Here's how it works:
    
       Patch the guitar into the DDL in the normal manner.  Set the
       DDL controls to give a SINGLE repeat exactly 1.5 beats later.
       Graphically:
    
              |     |     |     |      ...  Meter
              o     o     o     o      ...  Notes from guitar
                       d     d      d  ...  Notes from delay line
    
       Now find a simple melody that's composed of quarter notes ONLY;
       simpler the better.  Play staccato and mind the meter; don't
       stary from the tempo.
    
    I heard Albert Lee do this with Heads, Hands, and Feet about 15
    years ago and the effect was amazing.  If I hadn't seen him do it
    live, I never would have been able to figure it out.  It sounds
    like you're playing incredibly fast (not to be construed as a vote
    for fast playing at the expense of musicality!).
    
    Finally, since it's getting to be Christmas, I present my wish list
    for the ultimate processing rack:
    
        Configurable for N effects (add 'em as you buy 'em)   
        Select a pleasing combination of effects and store as a patch
        Analog (footpedal) control of the 'amount' of effect
        Patches selectable on the fly
        Patches storeable to some device (tape cassette)
    
    Comments?  I know this is starting to sound like I should by a MIDI
    guitar, but I still haven't run across a guitar synth that tracks
    correctly.  
    
    Regards,
    
    Johnny Jupiter
    

    Re .4: Yeah, that's a neat trick. I use it a lot, esp for tight
    stabs. You can key any instrument to any audio source (you can key
    it off a metronome if you wat). I like to use the Ashley 55 stereo
    gate for that effect instead of the keypex, you get more control
    over attack.
    
    Another neat trick is to patch out of a channel (does not break
    normal) into a second, put the second channel pre-fader effects
    send and turn the fader down so you hear more effect. Sounds a bit
    different than just panning the effect over to another side, which
    you can still do with this trick. A combination of those ideas can
    produce a great stereo effect.

    RE: .4
    
    That delay trick is how Van Halen did "Cathedral" on "Diver Down"
    LP.
    
    	db

    re .0,.1  Hackett w/Genesis
    
    Almost all pictures I've seen of him with Genesis show him playing
    a Les Paul.  He also used a metal slide.
    
    Richard
    

And lots of volume pedal...

I have a DOD rackmount echo/delay that has stereo outputs.  Some neat 
stuff can be done by keeping one side on the dry side of things, and varying
the other channel in real time between somewhat-wet and very-wet.

My favorite of effects is to setup a guitar->fuzz->volume_pedal->echo
patch.  With the volume pedal at full cutoff, hit a chord, then bring
the volume pedal slowly, and back down slowly.  This creates a nice 
delay-with-reverb type sound.  This is stolen from both Tangerine Dream
and Hackett...

Todd.

    re: .8
    
    That's my favorite DDL trick also.  Steve Morse was the first I
    ever saw do anything like that.
    
    You should try it without the fuzz box.  Also it works well for
    single notes too (not just chords).  My favorite version is to have
    a mono chorus unit before the DDL (this is sorta Holdsworthy sounding).
    Other variations are the use Vol-Wah instead of just volume.
    
    Also, you don't need a volume pedal at all.  If you're fortunate
    enough to have a guitar with a volume control near the strings
    (strats definitely qualify) you can get the same effect using the
    following technique:
    
    	Wrap your pinky around the volume control and practice turning
        the volume control up by unwrapping your pinky.   Once you get
        a feel for doing that, turn the volume all the way down, pluck
        the string(s) a bit ahead of the beat and then turn the volume
        on by unwrapping your pinky.
    
    If feels awkward at first but with a little practice you get very
    use to it.  There's a wide range of things you can do with this
    pinky swell techniques even independent of the DDL effect mentioned
    above.  For example, if you use the lead pickup and pick fairly
    close to the bridge and play two strings a fourth apart and then
    bend the lower string up to obtain a third you can get a very
    convincing Steel guitar sound.
    
    I think this pinky technique is generally attributed to Roy Buchanan.
    I think the first example I heard of it was on a Beck tune that
    was dedicated to Roy ("Since We've Ended as Lovers" on "Blow By
    Blow" which was written by Stevie Wonder (some of this information
    may be inaccurate)).
    
    Anyway, the DDL trick and the pinky stuff is really neat.  They
    give you ways to break out of the confines of sounding like an electric
    guitar (I've got variations of the DDL trick that sound like Synth-type
    Brass, woodwinds, or strings, it largely depends on the tone control
    settings of the guitar and what effects you put before the DDL.)
    
    	db

    Addendum to pinky swells. 
    
    If you're fortunate to have a tone control within reach of the strings
    you can use your pinky on that for wah-type things.
    
    I have this one really trick that sounds like a cat meow where I
    use BOTH the volume and tone AND the bar.  (On my guitar the tone
    is right below the volume so what I do is flatten my hand so that
    it touches BOTH the tone and volume controls.  By moving my hand
    up (and down) I simultaneously turn up (and down) the volume and
    the tone.
    
    Oh, another trick for pinky swells.  If have a guitar with two volume
    controls, by setting the pickup selector to the middle position
    (both pickups) you can adjust the gain on the volume control 
    your using with your pinky by adjusting the other volume control.
    If the volume control 2 is at 10, you go almost to full volume
    by turning volume control from 0 to 1 (this gives a fairly sharp
    contour that is reminiscent of brass), by turning volume control
    2 to 4 or 5, you have to turn volume control 1 to 6 or 7 before
    the full gain kicks in.
    
    Isn't this stuff neat?  I love exploiting things regarding the design
    of the guitar.   Maybe this stuff should go in the guitar tricks
    note.
    
    	db

re: .8, .9, .10

	Page used these tricks for the (long, long...) solo on Dazed and
	Confused on the _The Song Remains the Same_.  Only he added a 
	violin bow and got even weirder sounds.

-- Sam

    re. 10,...
    
    I have a Mutex volume/wah.  With both the volume and the wah turned
    on, and the pedal all the way off, you hit a note and then bend
    it up as you turn up the volume and open the wah.  Good for all
    sorts of animal/human noises.
    
    						-Jeff
    

    Anyone know how some guitarists like Stevie Vai can make a guitar
    "talk"?  I've never used an electric so this note is really fascinating
    to me.
    
    Regarding effects boxes/pedals, are there units that have combinations
    of the more popular effects built into one "box"?  Could someone
    list the recommended makes/models?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

    I had a chance to A/B 2 fairly new effects processors the other day. 
    While the models aren't important, what bothered me is that it seemed a
    lot of the effects seemed unusable to me.  Do those of you that own
    these multi effects processors see the same thing?  Out of X number of
    presets, how many of yours are actually usable?  To carry it one step
    further, how many do you actually use out of the usable portion?  My
    guess is that it's a very low percentage.
    
    I'm seriously thinking of forgetting all the rack stuff and just buying 
    a couple stomp pedals for what I feel I need (chorus and delay).
    
    Mike

    
    	I am a big fan of stompers.  I have quite a few of them, but only
    	use 2 or 3 at a time.  It's fun to change them around every few
    	weeks or so.  Easy to use, no programming, and most importantly
    	(for you and me) is that EJ uses 'em ('cept for the MXR flange
    	rack job.  
    
    	As of late, I have:	Dunlop Wah Wah
    				MXR Flanger  *
    				MXR Phase 100
    				Peavey (digital) Chorus  *
    				Tube Screamer
    				Digitech PDS 1002 delay  *
    
    	*  currently in use

    Mike, you're right.  Most of the rack goodies have a bunch of presets
    that are junk.  Absolutely nothing that I use for PA *OR* GUITAR stuff is
    a factory preset.  IMHO, their job is to show off what the unit will
    do - period.  (ADA's Mp1 is an exception - pick your favorites, edit to
    taste and presto!)
    
    Stomps are great (IMHO) for jammin' around the house and occasionally
    out, but having your stuff in a rack makes it mighty roadworthy and
    easier to trouble shoot when you have a crummy chord or something.
    Also ask Scary whats it's like to have a fellow band member unplug
    one of your boxes in the middle of a solo.  Major bummage.  :)
    
    jc (JMHO)

    I thought about this some more during lunch.  Say you have a processor
    with 128 presets (seems to be most common).  If you only use say 20
    presets (I think I'm being generous here too), you're only utilizing
    15.6% of that unit.
    
    Somehow I can't see spending $300-$500 on something that I'll only
    effectively use 15%.  Pedals would certainly have a better
    return on investment (ROI) here.  I'd have to figure it out, but I'd
    bet it would be high.
    
    What's funny too is applying this utilization to buying DEC equipment. 
    I've written quite a few workstation C.A.R.'s over the years.  When our
    current workstation utilization rates were less than 60% and we wanted
    to buy more, the capital committee would laugh us out of the room. 
    They wouldn't even talk to us if our ROI wasn't a minimum of 35%.
    
    Mike (just trying to put this in perspective)

    A different perspective:
    
    Say you run off and buy a chorus, a flanger, a digital-delay, a 
    digital reverb, distortion, compressor, and wha-wha.
    
    Here's your approx. cash outflow:
    
    Flanger:   $100
    CHorus:    $100
    DDL:       $150
    DDR:       $150
    Dist:      $ 50
    Compr:     $ 40
    Wha:       $ 40
    ---------------
    Total:     $630
    
    With that, you have a zillion knobs to turn (never remembering which
    knob goes where), a zillion 6" cords to wreck, batteries and/or wall
    bugs...(better get a carrying case for 'em - $100 - total=730) and 
    IMHO, way too much clutter in front of you to step on wrong, kick,
    unplug etc...  Again, cool for the living room, uncool for the stage.
    Ever seen someone play with all this stuff in front of them ?  Instead
    of posing and having a blast, they spend all their time tweaking knobs
    and tap dancing on their pedals.
    
    Of course you can avoid all of this buy getting your Marshall and
    plugging stright into it and blowing everyone away...
    
    jc (Who used to have all those stomps, and the headache to go with 'em)
                                                                           

Not to mention that the simple sound quality is not quite as good from peddles.

If you can get a good deal on a rackmount item and come up with a good control
scheme for it, I think the sound is better.  It's probably a little cheaper
to go rack mount if you need a LOT of effects.

If you don't need a LOT of effects, it's probably cheaper to use peddles.  I 
notice that the sound quality from peddles is better than it was, say, ten 
years ago, so for the most part, sound quality may not be an issue.

And if you're ("you" being anybody) looking to upgrade your effects you can 
do this:  Forget about state of the art.  If you just stay something like one 
or two years behind state of the art, and buy all used stuff, you can do it 
for cheap!

I don't even look at new equipment anymore.  Who needs to spend that kind of 
money?  Just look at the depreciation!  The thing to do is to make it work for
you instead of against you.

BTW: I used a couple peddles even when I had my rackmount unit.

JMO, of course,

Will

>    I thought about this some more during lunch.  Say you have a processor
>    with 128 presets (seems to be most common).  If you only use say 20
>    presets (I think I'm being generous here too), you're only utilizing
>    15.6% of that unit.
    
    I disagree on this method of utilization measurement.  That's only
    measuring how much of the storage you're using, not how much of the
    EFFECTS you're using.  If you have a unit that will do say, 10 effects,
    and you use 8 of them, that's 80% utilization in my book, whether you
    take 1 storage slot or 100 to store the combinations you like.
    
    There are many more considerations that might cause you to pick a
    multieffects unit. If you want something in a sound that's perfectly
    repeatable *every* time that you can access instantly, then you want a
    multieffects unit (or a bunch of midi controllable effects).  The
    analog controls on stomps allow you to get *close* if you remember
    where you had it set, but it's not exact.
    
>    Somehow I can't see spending $300-$500 on something that I'll only
>    effectively use 15%.  Pedals would certainly have a better
>    return on investment (ROI) here.  I'd have to figure it out, but I'd
>    bet it would be high.
    
    I think you'd better price some pedals before you go saying that they
    have a better return on investment.  If your multieffects unit offers
    10 effects and (just to make it fair) you use only 8 of them and it
    cost you $400, that comes out to $50 per effect that you use.  I don't
    think you could buy 8 stomp boxes for under $300, especially when most
    of the multieffects unit's you'd probably get have reverb and  digital
    delay, the two MOST expensive stomps.  Just grabbing my old Musicians
    Friend catalog, I find that a Boss DD-3 Digital delay will cost you
    $169.88 alone.  Then you gotta have a power supply (or *lots* of
    batteries), all the cables to put them together, and the little
    accessories like that, and you'll suddenly find a STRONG financial case
    for the multieffects unit.
    
    But...
    
    All that aside, IMHO music has NOTHING to do with return on investment
    whatsoever.  I try to get the best deals I can on the equipment I want,
    but my bottom line is that I don't really care how much I spend on
    something as long as it SOUNDS right.  This is not about capitol gains
    and losses.
    
    Greg

    Woah, major notes collision.  
    
    re: .18  I agree with your analogy, but some of your prices are
    whacked.  You can't touch a new Wah pedal for under $70...
    
    Here's some real numbers (courtesy of Musicians Friend and American
    Musical Supply).  I've found their prices on stuff like this to be
    pretty close to what my local music stores charge.
    
>    Flanger:   $100
    
    DOD FX75B stereo flanger - $59.95 (AMS)
    
>    CHorus:    $100
    
    DOD FX65 stereo chorus - 59.95 (AMS)
    Boss CH-1 stereo chorus - $75 (AMS)
    
>    DDL:       $150
    
    Boss DD-3 digital delay - $149.00 (AMS)
    DOD DFX-9 digital delay - $109.88 (MF)
    
>    DDR:       $150
    
    I couldn't find a reverb stomp in either of these catalogs.  I do
    remember Boss having one awhile back and I think it cost about $175.
    
>    Dist:      $ 50
    
    Cost on these varies from the DOD Supra distortion at 35.95 (AMS) to
    the Boss OD-2 Turbo Overdrive at 99.88 (MF).  In any case most
    multieffects units which have distortion offer several varieties, not
    just one, so figure to get the same functionality, you'd need multiple
    stomps.
    
>    Compr:     $ 40
    
    WAY low...
    
    Boss CS-3 Compression Sustainer - $89.88 (MF)
    Ibanez CP10 - $66.00 (AMS)
    
>    Wha:       $ 40
    
    DOD FX17 77.95 (AMS)
    
    But then again, the only multifx unit that I know of that has a real
    controllable wah sound is the Roland Gp-8...
    
    Greg

    What ?  Somebody say GP-8 ?  OK, I feel my chain getting jerked ... 8^)
    
    It's all in what you're doing, playing-wise, IMO.  Case in point:  In
    my band, we play everything from cry_in_your_beer country (Merle
    Haggard) to metal (Judas Priest).  I've got 8 patches programmed for
    each guitar - they allow me to go from sappy country chorus to singe
    your eyebrows metal at the tap of a toe.  Or other guitar player uses
    stomps.  For country songs he uses the lo-gain input of his amp (no
    overdrive) and stomps for chorus and delay.  But these effects sound
    like fecal matter when he PHYSICALLY switches from lo-gain to hi-gain
    on his amp.  So he has to go back to his amp, switch input jacks and
    adjust his tone briefly EVERYTIME we switch types of music.  For a
    live application, this inhales.  He's using my rackmount Tube Driver
    now, so he uses the clean channel all the time, just switches the Tube
    Driver off when we're clean.  Works MUCH better.
    
    But, if your audience consists of 2.3 pets, a small child, a SO, and
    close group of complaining neighbors, then stomps (used) may very well
    be your ticket.  Also, if you only plan to play 1 certain type of music
    live, stompers may be the way to go.  If I was just playing blues (hey,
    we can dream, can't we ?), I'd go with a Tube Screamer, a wah, a chorus
    pedal, and run that into a tube combo amp.  For metal/hard rock, I'd
    probably go with a Marshall, a 4x12, maybe a stomp EQ, maybe a chorus
    pedal.  But since my band does a little of everything, I have to round
    off the corners on the *ideal* rigs and use something that "gets the
    job done".
    
    
    Scary (who says ROI and guitar toys shoyuld never be mentioned in the
    same paragraph ...  8^)
    

Hi there !

I too think that rack-mount devices are cheaper (at least if you want several
effects), better quality (in most cases) and easier to handle (reproduction of
sounds and setting up cables and DC units etc.).

I had an FX900 over the weekend recently and was really impressed by the
quality of the effects. It also has the ability to use a normal foot controller
or any MIDI controller as a wah-wah pedal. Furthermore the wah-wah can als be
programmed to be touch sensitive or LFO controlled etc. So in reply to .21
there's more than just the GP-8 for wah-wah. I think most of the modern units
suport that. And if it's like the FX900, there's much more you can do with it.

	Richard

    Well as soon as I entered my last reply, I knew it needed more
    clarification to avoid a rathole.  I was just too tired to hang around
    and do it ;-)
    
    When I made the DEC analogy, I was trying to give a point a view
    that shows what it is like when someone else is footing the bill.
    If we had to justify our gear on those terms, we would still be playing
    air guitars.  As Greg said, whatever sounds good is right.  You can't put 
    your music in financial chains.
    
    Now for the price breakdowns:  the people contributing to this
    discussion so far use amps with names like Kitty Hawk, Marshall,
    Mesa/Boogie, ADA, etc.  With amps like these, you can forget about
    distortion pedals, reverb (on board and tolerable in most amps), and 
    maybe even compressors.  All we would need in a pedal is a decent 
    substitute for a DSP type unit.  This means Chorus, Delay, Flanger, and 
    EQ.  I don't include Wah because most effects units don't have it either.  
    Musician's Friend is serving up the DSP256 for $299.  You MIGHT be able 
    to get Chorus, Delay, Flanger, and EQ pedals for that price, but you 
    won't approach the flexibility.  A $100 MIDI pedal might be necessary
    to fully take advantage of it though.
    
    The pedal scenario gives you the chance to build over time rather than
    buying everything at once.
    
    BTW - forget Boss pedals (my opinion).  DOD is the only pedal company 
    that gives you a 3 year warranty and are generally less expensive.  
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    DOD is the only company who NEEDS that good of a warantee.  :)
    Boss pedals rule !
    
    BTW - Almost all MultiFX do Wha-Wha with continuous controllers
    Midi'd in.  No sweat.  :)

An interesting note:

For the price of many more inexpensive amps that some one may feel need 
dressing up with distortion, reverb, and eq; you might can buy a nicer amp
with it built in.

Maybe not a Boogie, but perhaps a 50 wt channal switching Marshall.  I've got
to say one the finest sounding amps I've evern heard for the money is a 
Carvin X-60 (right number?).  60 watts of EL34 power, with channel switching,
distortion (very nice), and reverb.

Get one of those and blow off a distortion peddle ($50?), reverb ($100+?).  
If you find the right amp that suits your taste, you often don't need an EQ 
($100+?) either.

Take a $400 amp and add the $250 and presto, you can get into a used 
Marshall, maybe even a Boogie.

Really, with the sound of a fine tube amp, you can get away with fewer effects.
It might not really be cheaper, but it's probably not as much more as it would
seem at first glance.

And IMHO, the money is better spent on the basics (amp and guitar) than effects.
Effects can't compensate for mediocre basic sound, but exellent basic sound
often doesn't need effects.

Will

    Good point will.  Thats where most of my old stomps went - into an amp
    with decent distortion and verb (a GK250ML at the time).
    
    I just sold a Marshall with a fine distortion sound, and a decent verb.
    Less than $300!  
    
    jc

    I have to agree on the Boss pedals.  These are among the highest
    quality (excluding the TC stomp stuff which really doesn't compare) and
    most reliable stomp boxs available.  I think they're easily worth the
    extra $10-$20 or so over the DOD effect that does the same thing.
    
    It's like comparing a Porsche to a MGB.  They both perform well for
    certain things, but the Porsche'll blow the doors of the MG in the long
    run.
    
    Greg

    Yeah, get a good amp!  I just bought a Marshall with a fine distortion
    sound, and a decent verb for less then $300!
    
    ;^)
    
    Greg

    RE:  Boss effects ...
    
    I've gotta plug 'em too, since the GP-8 is basically all of these
    stomps put to rack, and dressed in MIDI.  
    
    Everybody *needs* something different - my rig wouldn't work for a lot
    of folks, but it suits me.  So my suggestion is to take out a $4K loan,
    spending no more than $600 at a time.  Experiment with a lot of stuff. 
    Then you'll end up like me, a house full of stuff but only a small
    portion actually gets used .... 8^)   

    Another plug for BOSS pedals. They sound good and they last.
    
    I recently sold two of them and bought a Boss BE-5, basically
    5 Boss pedals in 1 box. It's not programmable but is very easy
    to use. I got it mainly for live playing. I almost bought a 
    programmable box but I really didn't think I'd need that many
    subtle variations of effects for playing live. I think 5 or 6
    different sounds are enough. And I don't even use the distortion
    on the BE-5, just a bit of overdrive. I just didn't want to spend
    time having to program sounds either.
    
    If I was recording a lot of music, I might think differently, but
    for live playing simpler is better. If I had the money right now
    I'd buy on of them JCM900 50 watt dual reverb combo jobbies.
    
    RE: take out a 4K loan. My wife would love that! "Yea, I know the
        checking account was overdrawn last week, but ..." ;)

    Bob, oh lord of smoking classical chops...
    
    What's in a BE-5?!?
    
    I'm actually thinking of getting one of those plastic BOSS fx carrying
    things, and putting a delay, a chorus, an octave divider, and my
    master volume footswitch in it.  Lemme know what the BE-5 is all about
    before I go off in this direction.
    
    Thanks
    B

    A BE-5 is like a poor man's ME-5.  It's been around a few years now. 
    Compressor plus distortion plus chorus plus delay plus noise suppressor
    built into one case.  No programming.  
    
    Now a new version is coming that *is* programmable (dunno if it's
    in the stores yet).
    
    						Brian

    I've been looking at the Korg A5 series for guitar.  It's basically the
    same as the BE-5, but without overdrive.  I think its programmable too
    and under $300 (list is $350).  On the 5 pedals you get chorus/flanger, 
    delay/reverb, compression, exciter, and 3-band EQ.  I just pulled out a
    catalog...  It is all digital, 30 programs (5 are user-definable), LED
    numeric display, 1 pedal for program/edit functions, 5 pedals for
    effect in/out, and has CD like sound quality (16 bit sampling @
    44.1kHz).  There are 3 versions, 1 for bass, 2 for guitars/keys (1 with
    distortion/overdrive, 1 without.  I'd prefer the latter).  
    
    I'd love to have a DSP256XL, but can't see it happening yet.  I want
    chorus and delay and may just end up getting a couple pedals for now.
    
    Mike

    Buckage, you embarrass me; I'm only smokin' in my dreams.
    
    Brian is right, poor man's ME-5.  
    I probably got mine for a good price because no one wants them 
    anymore. Works great though. I think it works much better than 
    separate pedals because of the built in noise suppressor. You can 
    also easily step on 2 pedals at once for different combinations. 
    
    Bob
    
    

If you're looking for peddles, hit the pawn shops.  Don't pay what's marked, 
ask them "What will you take for that".

Save a bundle,

Will

>    RE: take out a 4K loan. My wife would love that! "Yea, I know the
>        checking account was overdrawn last week, but ..." ;)
    
    I always say, "Ya gotta have yer priorities!"

    I agree - pork and beans for supper 3 times a week doesn't really
    sound *that* bad to me ...   8^)
    
    
    Scary

    ...or Macaroni & Cheese, heck I'm an official member of the "Kraft
    Cheese & Macaroni Club"!
    
    ;^)
    
    Greg

	PS had ramen noodles for $.10/ pack last week. Chow for a month on
	$10.

	repeat after me: Mono Sodium Glutamate

    What would be the best order to put these effects in?
    
    Chorus - Delay - Octaver - Compressor - Noise Suppressor - Exciter
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

     any order as long as the compressor is first and the noise suppressor
    is last....but I would bet comp-ex-oct-ch-de-n/s would sound about the
    best due to what the exciter and octaver do and require signal-wise
    -Bill

I'm curious: What does an exiter do?

(No smart-ass replies necessary :) )

Will

    -1
    
    BASICALLY, it's a treble boost.

    >What would be the best order to put these effects in?
    >
    >Chorus - Delay - Octaver - Compressor - Noise Suppressor - Exciter
    
    I do it:
    
    Exciter - Compressor - Chorus - Delay - Octaver - Noise Suppressor  
    

    I think Buck told me this, Will:
    
    (About a BBE Sonic Maximizer)
    
    The exciter splits the signal into three bands, processing the highs 
    with a delay/eq thingie, and jst delaying/filtering the low and mid
    bands.
    
    Listen to Satch, and you'll hear massive amounts of "Excitement".
    
    :)
    
    

re: exciter

Cool, thanks, guys.

effects order:

I would do it like Buck except I always had the delay as the last one.  Kind
of like playing guitar in a canyon: The echo would always be the last thing 
to happen to the sound.

Will

    Re: exciter
    
    Boss has a new pedal exciter model.  Coop is right, it is an integral
    part of Satch's sound.
    
    Mike

    Has anyone attempted to build your own effects? Didn't see any notes
    pertaining to such. What I'm looking for is schematics for  an 
    analog/digital delay unit. 
    Any pointers?
    
    Dave'
    

    
    Dave, you can probably buy what you want for about what you'd spend
    constructing one of these from a schematic.
    
    For example, Digitech DSP-128s (no longer state of the art, but more
    than just a digital delay) sell for a little more than $100.  Check
    the want ads and do model number lookups in this conference.