| Title: | GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion |
| Notice: | Discussion of the finer stringed instruments |
| Moderator: | KDX200::COOPER |
| Created: | Thu Aug 14 1986 |
| Last Modified: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 3280 |
| Total number of notes: | 61432 |
What is 'intonation' or, why does your guitar sound better than
mine?
I've got an electric Ibanez ??-200 that's about ten years old.
I've made a few tapes with both the Ibanez and a D-18 and the
difference between the two is painful.
I can tune it to sound ok on chords in the first position, or
tune it slightly differently for bar chords, but it's never
really right. The neck is true and, although the action is
low, there are no dead zones or buzzes. It's somewhat less
noticable with heavier strings (currently Markley light/heavy's).
I've been told that I should adjust the intonation. OK, I'm game.
The bridge is adjustable. I've got access to an electronic tuner
and a teeny screwdriver. What next?
Thanks,
Dave
| T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 86.1 | BAXTA::BOTTOM_DAVID | Thu Nov 06 1986 17:34 | 33 | ||
Ok a simple way to adjust intonation:
1. plug in your tuner
2. tune a string using the tuner so that the harmonic played at
the 12th is in tune
3. now play the note at the 12th fret
4. if it is sharp move the adjustable bridge piece (saddle) away from the
nut, if it is flat move the adjustable piece twords the nut
5. go to next string. repeat above.
1st fret 12th fret
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
^
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nut
Note: as you adjust the bridge saddles the string will most probably
require retuning.
To play a harmonic (in case you dont know) lightly touch the string
above the 12th fret and pick it pulling your finger away after the
note is plucked, a soft tone will emit (theoretically, easy after
a little practice) this note at the 12th fret should be the samme
as the note played at the 12th fret.
I do this to all of my guitars 3-5 times a year.
dave
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| 86.2 | Good... | PARSEC::MELENDEZ | Fri Nov 07 1986 10:01 | 7 | |
Ref .1)
I did not asked for the information, but I would like to thankyou
for it anyways.
Miguel.
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| 86.3 | OK on the practice, what's the theory? | UNCLE::GEORGE | Fri Nov 07 1986 13:04 | 8 | |
I did ask for it, and I'd like to thank you too. We'll give it
a try this weekend.
One more question, though. Why is it necessary to redo the adjustments
so often? I'd think that the bridge for each string should be at
some magical mathematical place based on string mass/tension/action
height. What changes to require a tune-up every 1000 songs?
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| 86.4 | harmonic theory?? | HENRY8::MARSHALL | Fri Nov 07 1986 13:53 | 60 | |
A whole smorgasbord of things can cause improper intonation. Here's
a few that I can think of off the top of my head:
1) The quality of your guitar(i.e. how securely is your neck
fastened to the body? I have problems with my 3 bolt Fender
Strat neck all the time.)
2) Ambient temperature and humidity. As the air gets drier this
time of year, the wood in your guitar may contract a bit.
3) Your playing style. Do you really wrench the neck around
as you play? Does this alter the straightness of the neck??
4) Wear and tear. As you change strings and if you change them
often, both the nut and the will wear a little causing string
length changes.
For those of you who are not aware of how this tuning system works,
here are some pictures:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
< >
^ ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ^
| \_string |
nut bridge
when you pluck an open string, the whole string vibrates in
a loop.
() -12th fret
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
< >< >
^ ''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''' ^
| \_string |
nut bridge
As you just touch your finger to the string at the 12th fret,
you create a "node" in the string and subdivide it in two halves,
each half resonating one octave above the open string frequency.
It is here that the string length is measured for intonation.
This note you hear should be the same as the note played when
the string is fretted at the 12th fret. If the fretted note
is sharp, then the string is too short, send the bridge piece
out a little bit. And just the reverse if the fretted note is
flat.
()- 7th fret
,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
< >< >< >
^ '''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''' ^
| \_string |
nut bridge
Another harmonic occurs at the seventh fret where the string is divided
up into thirds.
()- 5th fret
,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,
< >< >< >< >
^ ''''''''''' '''''''''' ''''''''''' ''''''''' ^
| \_string |
nut bridge
And at the fifth fret, the string is divided into quarters where
it resonates two octaves above the open string frequency.
rick
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| 86.5 | Real world intrusion into musical perfection | 19584::BECK | Paul Beck, DECnet-VAX | Fri Nov 07 1986 16:10 | 13 |
Other factors include the size of your frets and the thickness of your
strings. A string is neither zero diameter nor at infinite tension (your
fingers will appreciate both). When you fret it, you are changing its
length by stretching it. If you have high, fat frets (my recollection is
that Ibanez guitars, for one, have large frets), and you fret hard, you
bend the string over the fret, changing its length further. For reasons
such as these, the absolute distance between nut and bridge is different
for different diameter strings (ever wonder why the saddle isn't
straight?). If you change from light to heavy strings on an electric
guitar, I imagine you need to adjust the bridge.
A guitar is only an approximation. Technically, you can't make a guitar
with perfect intonation, I believe. You come as close as you can.
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| 86.6 | BAXTA::BOTTOM_DAVID | Fri Nov 07 1986 16:40 | 17 | ||
One of the main reasons I do this so often is that I record alot
and I'm VERY picky about tuning. Nothing hurts me more than some
itiot in a bar that refuses to tune/intonate his guitar, I'll leave
rather than listen to it.
good luck
dave
re: three bolt fenders......I fixed the problems I was having with mine
moving by 1) using rubber cement to help hold the neck in place and 2)
shimming the neck in so tight that it requires a mallet to seat it
properly (picks work great for this), on my Lead 1 with the kahler this
was very difficult due to the shim kahler requres under the heel of the
neck, that neck was very mobile at first but now doesn't move at
all....even if I pull it sideways with all my might.
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