| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 48.1 | | MTBLUE::BOTTOM_DAVID | | Thu Sep 11 1986 12:41 | 7 |
| We decided what we were going to play...but we booked ourselves
into clubs that were compatable with our set list....agents however,
had a bad habit of booking us into rooms that did not want blues,
they wanted top 40 and of course, we got fired.....so the deal is
you write the setlist but he owner/manager writes the check.....
dave
|
| 48.2 | Anything... | 25630::JASNIEWSKI | | Fri Sep 12 1986 08:38 | 8 |
|
You can play any f'in thing you want - as long as you bring
a hundred or so people with you when you play, or they start showing
up on their own in those numbers *to* hear you play. Clientele is
the bottom line in a business that's "open to the public" -
Joe Jas
|
| 48.3 | Dog eat Dog world | INK::MWHITE | | Fri Sep 12 1986 12:29 | 11 |
| Re -1: gee Joe, I have to disagree with you there. When I did the
R & R/Top 40 curcuit, we (the band) found that club owners have
everything to say from how loud you played, to how long you played,
what kind of music you did in your set, we even got comments on
our equipment and stage presence. They will tell you, also, that
if you don't like it, there's always someone else. Bunnratty's will
expect you play a 50 min. set, so shorter, no longer..50 minutes!
Jack's & Celebrations will not let you crank an amp past 1! This
stuff get even worse when you do top 40 and deal with a lounge
situation. Those people don't like anything!
-William j.
|
| 48.4 | Everything is business | MOZART::KLOSTERMAN | Stevie K | Fri Sep 12 1986 12:39 | 6 |
|
Yeah, WJB's right about most of it. Bun's docked us for doing a short
set (40 minutes), The Channel cut our set short (they would have turned us off
if we hadn't stopped) changed the starting time and insisted that our
equipment be out of the club within 10 minutes after our set was over.
|
| 48.5 | | BAXTA::BOTTOM_DAVID | | Mon Sep 15 1986 08:27 | 5 |
| re: Jack's they were a real pain in the ass to play for...stage
volume so low that you can't hear yourself over the drums, except
for what was coming back off the wall behind the bar...oh yeah yu
get $50 for tonight and owe the sound man $40, what? we didn't tell
you that? Too bad for you.....
|
| 48.6 | where is everyone? | CAR::OPERATOR | boy, this is fun! | Wed Sep 17 1986 12:02 | 24 |
|
I don't have anything to add to this.
I just got weary of seeing.....no new notes.
so I thought I'd add a new note.
this is it.
not much, is it?
certainly uninformative.
and highly uninteresting.
practically worthless.
well, it's the best I could do.
rik s.
|
| 48.7 | still here | FROST::SIMON | Gary Simon - BTO Quality Engineering | Mon Sep 29 1986 17:08 | 13 |
|
I've been trying to get to this conference for a week or better now.
I kept getting REMOTE NOTE NOT CURRENTLY AVAILABLE or LOGIN INFORMATION
INVALID AT REMOTE NODE. Maybe I haven't been the only one who
couldn't get through...8-(
By the way Rik...sorry I missed the bash at your place a couple weeks
ago. Something came up and I couldn't get to a terminal to put in
a note. I take it that it was a good time? Sounded like it in a
note in the Music Note file. Well maybe some other time..
-gary
|
| 48.8 | | JAWS::PELKEY | Just try doing THAT on a piano ! | Tue Oct 21 1986 16:16 | 61 |
| This is an old conference, but I wish I'd seen it sooner.
Hope some one reads this.. I've got alot to say about this
subject.
First off, sounds like some of you guys have worked for some real
winners.
My opinion genarally flows with this idea.
.1. If you're playing in a club that sees mainly alot of top
forty rock. Than assume thats what the *PEOPLE* want to here.
The club owners are usually the most ignorant in this topic,
and merely repeat what there regular partrons either complain
about or compliment. There's some clubs that want just original,
others, just cover. I don't think it's the club owner or the
management, it's the clientel determining this. But you very
often cant do what you want to do, and stay alive in the club
circuits. So you play the top 40 rock, and if you aint got
no orginals, stay out of those rooms. Club owners and managers
very rarley *listen*, they just know when people walk up to
them an say that the band is great, or the band sux.
.2. Volume: You know, I wish the club management would just make
f-in drinks, and let the band worry about the music. Some clubs
don't really want a band. They want a juke box that looks like
three or four or five guys up on a stage (that's usually stuffed
in a corner, and way to small). I can't stand some of these
club owners who have this, "I am the almighty", attitude, and we've
out and out quit, just walked out on two of them.
We got this line,, (and we were NOT too loud !!!)
"Hey, if you F-in guys don't turn the @#$@#$ SH#%^ down, I'm
pullin the plug"
So we said, Hey don't worry about, it'll be as quiet as a
tomb in here in about 45 minutes....
"So you want to be a wise ass pal.. Well it's friday night,
your club is full and your stage is empty. Now who needs
who,,, you asshole !" This believe it or not, has worked
for us. See, we don't (musicians who play in part time bands)
need to take anything from any two and a half cent club manager.
I really feel strongly about this. "Man just take your club and
jam it !"
Didn't put much money in our pocket, but to see the looks on
their faces as we walked out the door was priceless and worth
the loss.
So all in all, It's a good idea to know the clientel of the
clubs you play in. If it's a top forty rock club, than stay
current. Keep the volume liveable first set. If your not
too loud at the start, chances are, they' wont even notice
it when the floor starts to rock by second set. Club owners
in general, run about like hens with there heads cut off.
There usually always in a bad mood, and what better source
to take it out on the the four *Punks* that are up on the stage.
Well it don't always work that way guys. No one should be
prostetuting themselves for any night club job.
|
| 48.9 | You work for them, not they for you. | VERDI::KLOSTERMAN | Stevie K | Wed Oct 22 1986 11:37 | 15 |
| As often as you feel you're screwed by clubs, the clubs feel they're
screwed by bands. Every musician should spend time as a club manager booking
bands to fully appreciate where they're coming from.
The club owner/manager is the boss. They're right when they're paying
bucks and they're right when they hold the ticket you getting more gigs.
My last top40 band had a keyboard player that insisted on fighting with
the manager of every club we played at. He often won the fights, and we often
weren't asked back. Regardless of whether he was right or not, it wasn't in the
best interest of the band.
There are ways to handle people diplomatically. If you take the time to
develop a good relationship with a club and they with you, all problems can
usually be ironed out.
|
| 48.10 | Ok. I agree with .9 BUT | HAMSTR::PELKEY | | Wed Oct 22 1986 13:55 | 52 |
| You work for them, they not for you
Yes, true. But what I think I was talking about was.
A. when you've done everything to be reasonable.
B. you know what level of volume you're at, and what
*should* be acceptable in the room
C. in good faith, you've tried to accomodate the
manager/owner, and it's not working.
do you
A. bend over and hand them a jar of vaseline
B. allow them to continue the intimidation until
it breaks down the bands attitude
C. keep things in their proper prospective and tell
who ever to pound sand.
We (the band I'm in) have *RARELY* had any problems. We always
get asked back. We stay current, and we keep the volume at a
good level for each room were in.
But when it becomes apparnet that the people who are paying you
will not layoff, you must draw a line. (the money just aint worth
it) We've worked for a few, (2 in four years) and we didn't hurt
our rep by not allowing these 2 guys to get the best of us. Infact
one of the 2 is in jail right now on enough coke charges to take
care of him for a long time. Thank you
I agree though, it's not an easy bussiness on either end. I've
played at bunrattyes had friends that played the Channel, and I've
worked the Mohawk and the Cinema. They were not good examples of
how a club should manage it's bands.
But a IMPORTANT factor in a bands success is playing in the right
rooms. If you're a small band, small system, little equipment,
forget playing a room like franklins when you very well could be
booked there four days after Orion The Hunter leveled the place.
Buy the same token, a band with a considerablly large P.A., quite
a load of equipment, and a set list compiled of lots of metal, stay
out of the top 40/Gb rooms.
I've found, that if you can put up with their arrogance, the chinese
resturants with large lounges, SIngapore, Golden lion, Mahaki, Cathay
Island, are some of the eaiser guys to work for. They tend to deal
you quite straight, and don't pull any punches. The crowd usually
likes it when you mix it up, and if you play your cards right on
first set, you can get away with murder after the resturant is closed.
We have a considerably large system, and have not had any real trouble
when it gets lit up.
|
| 48.11 | YOUR STYLE AND GETTING THE RIGHT PLACE | SNEAKY::DORUDIANI | | Mon Apr 20 1987 05:31 | 9 |
| Each time I had to play some place I would contact the person in
charge ahead of time and discuss the kind of music I could play.
I do not suggest playing in a place that do not like your particular
style, some managers even try to alter your music which I do not
see the point.
In my opinion try to advertise for your particular style of music
and only discuss length of time and money with customers.
|
| 48.12 | But one man's opinion | GLIND1::VALASEK | | Wed Apr 29 1987 13:05 | 32 |
| For what it's worth...
Our band recently had a run in with a member of a club we were playing
at. He had the line, hey turn this sh%%% down or I'll pull the f$###
plug. Well, we had been playing this club for about a year with
excellent results, and weren't about to take any stuff from some
crusty idiot. After his neato statement, he immediately walked
away. Two of us pursued. We caught him in the bar and had a calm
discussion with him on how to address individuals of the human race.
Forturnately he agreed that he was hasty, and apologized. It still
killed the bands energy. As a result of this experience, I have
thus adapted the philosophy that, hey, I don't need to do this for
a living, and I will not sacrifice my personal integrity for money.
I think you need to ask yourself why you play clubs. Is it :
1. Because you need extra money real bad.
2. For fun.
3. Serious business.
4. Hopes of getting discovered.
5. Combination of the above plus others not listed here.
I personally play for fun, and have yet to make any kind of sizeable
income. Our band always owes for equipment, which gig money helps
pay for but not entirely. Based on this, I have decided not to take
any unreasonable crap from anyone. This makes it no fun, which in
turns makes me quit playing the particular offending club.
It's all a question of why you're there and how much you are willing
to put up with.
Tony
|
| 48.13 | | BAXTA::BOTTOM_DAVID | | Thu Apr 30 1987 08:14 | 8 |
| Tony... well put! I adopted this attitude myself even though when
I was still actively gigging we were hoping for the big break and
trying to be very professional. I have an attitude about clubs,
club owners and people who ask me to play "sexual healing". Most
of the time it doesn't show....but I do not take any sh*t from anybody
anymore in clubs....I just won't play in some of them anymore.
dave
|
| 48.14 | Turn it UP please... | ASHBY::BEFUMO | Thus spake Zarathustra | Wed Jan 11 1989 17:20 | 25 |
| Hmm, an OLD note, but I'll stick in my 2c worth for the archives...
I recall playing a little bar in South Brooklyn (NYC), hmm, must
have been around 1971, and getting the same kind of crap from the
owners. We couldn't understand how ANYONE could be so unreasonable
- after all, I was only playing through 2 marshalls!
I think that, as musicians, we can't halp put want to feel like
everyone is there to witness THE EVENT - us, whereas, as professionals,
we have to kind of accept being a PART of somebody's evening, and
not necessarily a part that prohibits all other aspects of the evening.
Now, I'm not that versatile, but I'd LIKE to be the kind of musician
that could rock the garden one day, and get called in to to three
bars of a toothpaste commercial the next, and maybe back up Tony
Bennett the third - you see what I mean. I think prefessionalism
is all about being a musician that can perform in as many environments
as possible, and leave all the customers satisfied.
Now, ten years ago, it was definitely difficult to get your
sound without cranking up some, but with the equipment that's available
now, I think the only real factor is balancing the drums, and a
good drummer can usually control his volume to some extent. I think,
perhaps, the major piece of equipment to leave home is the egos,
and then things are bound to go smoother. There's no better feeling
than having the owner come over & say, "could you turn it UP a little
fellas?"
|
| 48.15 | limit your possibilities | HAMER::KRON | | Tue Apr 04 1989 15:50 | 8 |
| Bottom line, if you're good enough and do your homework before
booking a gig, then there are less chances for that unfortunate
surprise. Do the preparatory work before booking...see the place
and the clientele involved, wherever possible speak to that night's
band, and the chance for letdown is sufficiently decreased
Pat
|
| 48.16 | Who's the boss? | SALEM::DACUNHA | | Wed May 03 1989 13:02 | 29 |
|
Let the agent pick the clubs, and don't take
any crap. Usually it's best to take it easy the first
set. No matter what happens, by the end of the night
the band is cranking anyway.
If you get complaints or suggestions from the
management of the club, all you have to do is nod
your head "YES" and agreee. Then.....do what ever
you want. They are usually too busy to come back
again and if the place is full, don't have the balls
to piss you off. (lest a bandmember become ill)
YOU know what the people want.....your not playing
for the owner or the bartender. As long as there
are plenty of drinking patrons in the room, the band
holds ALL the cards.
Don't you hate it when......you have to yell five
times to shut off the damn jukebox
MITZM_BLEATS
|
| 48.17 | | CHBGUE::BOTTOM_DAVID | Windsock management | Wed May 03 1989 13:05 | 7 |
| re: DOn't ya hate it when you have to yell five times to get the
juke box turned off?
We've had a severe problem with this in one club. Now we all play
along with the box...badly...believe me it works!
dbii
|
| 48.18 | Who's signing the check? | WEFXEM::COTE | The fool screams no more... | Wed May 03 1989 13:29 | 33 |
|
> If you get complaints or suggestions from the
> management of the club, all you have to do is nod
> your head "YES" and agreee. Then.....do what ever
> you want.
I think this type of attitude causes EVERY band trying to get a
gig out there to LOSE. Some owners can be unreasonable, but it's
your call if you want to gig there again. Coming across like you're
god's gift to world of entertainment just gives EVERYONE another
hurdle to jump. Swallow your ego and don't go back if you don't
like the rules...
> YOU know what the people want.....your not playing
> for the owner or the bartender.
Really? Who's giving you the cash at the end of the night? A little
cooperation goes along way toward establishing a reputation. I've
gigged for some horrid owners and even got shafted for cash at the
end of the night, but the band always acted professionally.
If I was a club owner, you'd gig for me once. It's MY business,
if you want to work for me, you play by MY rules. If not, adios.
There's 20 bands at the door waiting for the stage...
Treat the bands AND the management with respect and everyone wins,
or at least doesn't lose. Don't be a fool, but keep your position
in perspective.
Edd
|
| 48.19 | I like to get paid, I don't know about you. | TYFYS::MOLLER | Halloween the 13th on Elm Street #7 | Wed May 03 1989 14:23 | 13 |
| I have to agree. If you are in a club, you play what the manager wants
to hear, not necessarily the audience (the military base clubs are
quite interesting, because often the manager could care less what
the audience wants he hear. he knows that there is no place else for
them to go & if they complain, the MP's will take care of it.).
Sometimes if you pi$$-off the manager in one place, you'll lose work
all over town because of it.
Never bite the hand that signs the check.
Jens
|
| 48.20 | Wanna get paid? | MURPHY::NOVELLO | | Wed May 03 1989 16:25 | 15 |
|
Re: last several.
A club in Littleton MA was trying to change their clientele.
The club was FILLED with people wearing grubby jeans and
Mr. Goodwrench caps. The owners wanted to attract DECCies and
people from the fancy new hotel down the street, so we were
only allowed to play very tame rock and ballads.
One night after having a couple of Mai Tais, my band did a couple
of requests for Billy Idol tunes. That was the last time we
ever played there. Going from 4 months a year to zip..........
Guy Novello
|
| 48.21 | Chinese food is DUCKY!!!! | SALEM::DACUNHA | | Wed May 03 1989 16:33 | 45 |
|
The reputation of any band is created by word
of mouth from the patrons but mostly by what the cash register says
when the night is through. If you are making money for the bar
and the folks are enjoying themselves it doesn't matter what the
owner wants. As long as the place isn't trashed by 2:00 a.m. he's
gonna appreciate your efforts.
re:18
God's gift.......I like that!
None of the bands I have ever played with has
been shortchanged. We've ALWAYS been asked to come back. You
some bad experiences with hardnosed club owners.....
maybe....YOU are taking the wrong approach.
I'm not saying it is in the bands best interest
to absolutely refuse the suggestions of the client, but the closest
I'll come to managment ass-kissing is playing a slow one or two
or keeping the volume down during dinner hours.
The band was hired for what they do. Are you
gonna let the managment define your role???
I suppose we should do dishes too.
If you have hard time, you've been booked into
the wrong club......period.
Whoever set up the gig should have known all
the possible variables and hangups of any particular club.
but you never can tell......
Chris_who_will_never_compete_with_a_big_screen_TV_even_if_
it_IS_playoff_time.
|
| 48.22 | the world continues to be strange | CHBGUE::BOTTOM_DAVID | Windsock management | Thu May 04 1989 10:24 | 8 |
| Last night I played a place in Portland I'd never been in before
(I also didn't book the gig). Turns out the club owner is a fellow
who ripped off a band of mine 9 years ago when he stold the proceeds
of a show that a band he was managing played at also...since we
were interested in coming back diplomacy ruled and I only mentioned
that other gig in passing..."small world eh?"
dbii
|