Conference napalm::guitar

    
    
    	Get a Bill Lawrence...
    

    I second the motion.  Bill Lawrence is great.

get a dean markley pro-mag......
    
    dave

    Another question:
    
    Is it better to use a stick-on (suction cup?) pickup or one that
    snaps into the sound hole (if there is such a beast)?
    
    tom_p

    re .4
    
    "Depends".
    
    I've had both kinds - the old Buffalo pickup was the stick-on kind.
    Problem is, then tend to fall off in the middle of a number if you
    use the "doesn't mar your finish" putty. 

    If you play amplified frequently, you can get a Barcus Berry
    stick-on that you glue to an appropriate spot inside the guitar
    (experiment with placement on the outside first to make sure you've
    got it where you like the sound - it differs a LOT based on where
    you put it) with the wire run out through a special replacement tail
    pin (though I've heard that these can be somewhat delicate). This
    approach is the best for appearance, because you don't have any ugly
    wires draped on the top of the guitar (and bouncing against it,
    making noise); as to how the sound compares, that's taste. 

    The kind that fits into the sound hole (see .1) doesn't have this
    problem, but looks pretty awful, runs the risk of scratching the
    finish around the sound hole, and detracts from the sound of the
    guitar when played without amplification (which means you pull it
    out when not used, increasing the risk of scratching). 
    
    I've given up on the stick-on kind, and currently use a Bill
    Lawrence, _sparingly_ and _carefully_.

    What about the kind you can have "installed" so that it has a jack
    right where an electric guitar does?  I've been using the kind that
    goes in the sound hole, but it is a pain.  I went to a music store
    and they said they could just install a pickup for around $50 that
    would sound great.  Sounds great to me, but would it ruin my nice
    Yamaha?  I can just picture the wood splitting...
    
    Anyone ever have that done? 
    
    Sandy

    I'm not too worried about scratches around the sound hole.  I 'built'
    an accoustic pickup from an old electric guitar pickup by putting
    a couple of flat washers behind it and holding it in place with
    an elastic string around the neck.  This sufficiently scratched
    the finish so that I'm not too worried about it.
    
    BTW.  Scratches might be good after all.  My 12 string was stolen
    from my car once and I was able to identify it at a local music
    store from these scratches and the buckle mark on the back...
    
    tom_p

    I had my pro-mag installed permanently, they mounted the pickup
    in the sound hole and ran the wiring out to the stap pion on the
    bod, they replaced the strap pin with one that has the jack built
    right in...no hasseling with the wires hangin all over the place.
    Works good and if the dealer has a good repair person there should
    be no problem with the installation.
    
    dave

    Gack. I would never have an acoustic pickup installed permanently
    IN THE SOUND HOLE. I happen to like the way my guitar sounds.
    
    What ever happened to Hot Dots? Did they sound decent?

                         <RESPONSE ISN'T ALL>

     I've had a Barcus-Barry in my Guild, D25M for quite a few
years now.  I picked it up when flat response audio pickups (FRAP)s
where coming onto the market like hotcakes.  I've tried Buffalo,
Barcus, HotDot and few others.  From a response standpoint, as long 
as they were mounted in the same way and played under the same
conditions, all were very similar.  
     The big difficulty arises when playing a club with a silicon-
control-rectified dimmer switch on their heavy-duty lighting.  That
cute little wire that connects the pickup to the end-pin jack makes
a fine antenna and to my knowledge cannot be shielded,  at least as
far as the Barcus is concerned.  Creates an awful sixty cycle hum.
     I do understand that a flat response pickup that is very resistant
to interference can be had through Ovation Co. by ordering a replacement
for those that are used in the Custom Balladeer as well as others.  They
come complete with a self contained pre-amp and instalation isn't extremely
difficult.  Yes, a pre-amp is pretty much necessary for the Barcus.
     By the way the Guild w/Barcus and equipment are available in 
note #35....  
                

    I have a very discriminating friend who's gone through several pickups,
    and is now using a tiny mic that clamps onto the sound hole.  I
    haven't had a chance to test it myself, but he say's it's great.
    Don't remember the brand, but there are several by now.
    
    Bob
    

    Recommmend you try to locate a Countryman acoustic pichup.  It's
    actually a little microphone that clips onto the soundhole.  I've
    worked with a guitar player in a Cajun band (Beausoleil) who used
    one; he got a tremendous natural acoustic sound...very harmonically
    rich.  My main complaint against almost all acoustics guitar pickups
    is the somewhat thin, electric, sound they put out.
    
    I don't know how much a Countryman costs.  
    
    Good hunting,
    
    Johnny Jupiter
    

    To revive an old note:  I'm looking for a replacement pickup for
    my Guild D35 acoustic.  I'm currently using a Dean Markley Pro-Mag,
    which I like, but which hums like the dickens.
    
    Any suggestions for sources for the Countryman acoustic pickup
    (re .12)?  I live in southern NH, but go to Boston often.
    
    Anyone have any experience with the next generation Pro-Mag?  I
    think it's a humbucking design.  I saw an ad for it in Guitar Player,
    but I don't have the model number with me.
    
                                           Rodney M.
    

    One acoustic pick-up which I've had the pleasure of working with
    (playing/installing) is a "Martin Thinline". Its a contact? pick-up
    which is installed directly under the bridge. (The bone or ivory
    or plastic (uugghh) piece). The bridge is filed down (from the
    underside) to compensate for the pick-up thickness. (Thickness is
    approx. .050"). The bridge is also cut in half (easy now, it works
    fine) to seperate the bass and treble "ends". The wire is routed
    out through the strap peg (supplied). It looks like a thin flat
    copper bar, with a shielded wire (small) coming out of the center
    underside. This can be used without a preamp and sounds just hot
    diggity. Up here, (The Great White North - Canada), it retails for
    $109.00 CDN. Down there, I'm sure its quite reasonable in price.
    This can be installed by yourself with a little patience and guts
    if your carefull. To cut the bridge in half, I use an "Exacto" saw.
    Its six thou wide, which is about all the seperation you want between
    the bridge pieces. 
    
    I prefer the strap peg wire exit, and NOT the body side. (I'm a
    purist). The side plays an important role in resonance/amplification.
    (Besides being brittle if its good quality Brazilian rosewood given
    the thinness of the side). To add, in-the-hole pick-ups (permanently
    installed) detract from the sound (I feel) when played "acoustically".
    
    The Canadian Luthier (Self Acclaimed, but has references to the
    good). dep.

    Re: .1, .2
    
    Which Bill Lawrence do you suggest. I just went to my local music
    store and they had a Bill Lawrence that installs under the bridge.
    Is that the one? Are the install-under-the-bridge kind recommended?
    --
    						Seth Jackson

    Maybe a little late in getting this in ... been working but I'd
    second the motion on the Martin 332 Thinline.
    
    Have heard them in a couple guitars (all Martins so can't comment
    on other guitars but can't see why it'd matter) and the acustics
    some just like the real thing.  You can also "Hendrix" around if
    you like ... can get whatever sound your electric effects will do.
    
    AA

    Has anybody ever heard of "Fishman" pickups? I was told by a local
    store that some guy name Fishman make all of the Martin Thinline
    pickups that have been recommended here, and also sells the same
    pickups under his own name. They didn't have either these or the
    Martins in stock, so I don't see any reason why they would have
    made this up. but I'd just like to know if anybody has any experience
    with this company. Also, this note has been inactive for quite a
    while. Does anybody have any other positive or negative experience
    with Martin Thinline pickups? If so, let me know. I'm thinking about
    installing one soon.
    
    - Ram

    
    Well, this is kinda late, and it's been a long time since any replies
    to this topic, but I figured I'd put my 2 cents in...  Last month
    I had a Fishman pickup installed in my 12-string, and I really love
    it!  I'd recommend it to anyone thinking of getting a pickup for
    their acoustic guitar.  Last weekend I was able to play it through
    a real sound system for the 1st time, and it sounded fantastic.
    I had a Dimarzio pickup before that stuck in the hole, (not a very
    good one) and I just didn't like the sound, it sounded more like
    a cheap electric guitar than an acoustic guitar at all.  The
    convenience of being able to just plug a chord into your guitar,
    and the best acoustic sound I've ever heard from a pickup make the
    Fishman highly recommendable!!
    
    Dave
    
    

    Could you give more details on the Fishman, like how it is designed
    and installed, how much you paid for it, and where you got it?
    
    - Ram

    Yes, I second that...I've got a plain vanilla Yamaha that sounds
    quite nice all by its lonesome, but I've been dying to try effecting
    the sound with some of my BOSS pedals.  The only problem is that
    the pickups I've tried on it thinned out the sound so much that
    the best I could do with the pedals is simulate and acoustic guitar!
    If the Fishman can preserve the harmonics and warmth of the acoustic,
    then I want it......
    
    					Rick
    

    Just read in a note on guitar repair that the Martin Thinline pickup
    (available just about anywhere) *is* a Fishman pickup.  Can anyone
    verify this?
    
    Rodney M.

    
    The Thinline pickup is built to Martin specs by Fishman.
    
    

    
    
    Sorry, its been a while since I looked at this note, and you've
    probably found out about the Fishman/Thinline pickup.  After a few
    months with the guitar and pickup, I still believe that its one
    of the best acoustic sounds you can get FROM A PICKUP.  It has a good full
    sound that I think you can make sound really great with a graphic
    equalizer (as it is I don't have an equalizer, and the 12 string
    sounds great through my Roland Jazz Chorus with no effects but stereo
    on).  But...that real acoustic sound, and particularly that ring
    that an acoustic 12 string creates can't be emulated by a pickup.
    I'd like to hear what the "countryman" pickup sounds like, it sounds
    like the ideal acoustic pickup for creating a "true" acoustic sound.
    The Fishman is probably even better suited for a 6 string, and would
    probably sound closer to the real thing than a 12 string would.
    On the other hand, you can get some great tones playing through
    a good amp that you could never get playing acoustic.  (re -1)
    For example, anyone see Dan Fogelberg play solo?  If you have, then
    you know the sound someone can get from a thinline pickup, 'cause
    if he isn't using one, he uses a pickup that sounds a lot like one.
    
    I payed $85.00 for the pickup plus installation charges.  Richard
    Stanley installed it for me when I had some work done on the guitar
    by him.  He usually has a few of them at his shop, so you probably
    wouldn't have to order it.  It was worth the money, thats about
    what the going price is for the pickup, and I knew that the job
    was going to be done right, although I understand it isn't very
    difficult to install.  Hope this is of some use to somebody...
     

	Looks like this note hasn't been visited recently...

	Anyone have experience with equalizer/preamp units for acoustic
	pickups.  I've seen a few advertised (most notably the Passac (sp?)).
	
	Has anybody out there used any that they would recommend?  I have
	one guitar with a Barcus Berry "Insider" pickup that just sounds
	thin and shrill.  I'd like to find something that would boost the
	lower end and give it a more even sound.

	_gary

    Re: .24
    
    What you need is a preamp with a very high input impedance.  What is
    happening is that the Insider has a very high impedance and is being
    loaded down when you plug it into an amp.  Fishman has a new preamp
    which lets you mix a pickup together with a mike.  It's gotten high
    marks in reviews I've seen.  There is also a cheaper Fishman preamp
    which accepts a pickup only.
    
    						Brian

	Well I picked up a Boss Parametric EQ/preamp last night.  This 
	unit has four bands of EQ with individual levels for mid range
	and hi as well as an overall output level.  

	This seemed to do a pretty good job on the Barcus Berry.  The
	input impedence on this unit is 1 Meg.  Just putting it in line
	between the pickup and amp makes a pretty good difference without
	even turning it on.  With it turned on you really can change the
	sound of the guitar.  Not a bad deal on it either...$69 at 
	Advance Music in Burlington, Vt.  

	_gary

    The Boss is probably not a bad way to go. I'm using a Fishman preamp
    with my Fishman pickup. Unlike the S-D soundhole pickup that I used to
    use, the Fishman definitely requires a preamp (in my opinion). The
    Fishman preamp only has 2-band EQ, but in other respects it seems
    pretty good. I went with it because I wanted to embed it in a pedal
    that lets me switch between my electric and acoustic guitars, going
    into the same amp. Otherwise it would have been easier, more economical
    and probably better to use something like the Boss.
    
    - Ram

    I'd like to revive this topic, if I may, since the last note was more
    than a year ago.

    I have 3 acoustics (variable quality, but one is a Martin D18) which I
    need to amplify on gigs.  I have two transducers, one an old Barcus
    Berry original (c.1971), the other a recent Barcus Berry Junior - both
    run through a cheapish but reasonable pre-amp.

    I'd like to get a third device, though I can't justify big ���.  I'm
    intrigued by the Martin Thinline (Fishman I've not seen in the UK - has
    anyone else?), which I think retails here for around �60 (= c.$90).

    I have my doubts though about cutting up the guitar in any way.  What
    effect on maintaining the instrument's value?  How difficult is it
    removing the original strap peg and installing the replacement?  I have
    already made my own bridge piece, lowering the action fractionally.
    But what about drilling a hole through the saddle to accomodate the
    wiring?  How easy/drastic is this?

    Probably other questions (eg. what quality/budget alternatives are
    there nowadays?) but I have to rush right now.

    Your comments much appreciated, folks.

    Cheers

    Andrew
    

    
    Hi Andrew,
    
    	Dare I suggest adding a fourth geetar to your batch? How about one
    of those lovely thinline, cutaway Washburns with built in pickups and
    tone/vol controls etc? However, money may be an issue. Still, sounds
    like buying a brand new good quality pickup and having it
    professionally fitted won't be cheap.
    
    	Richard

    Richard, how's life?

    Hey, I can't add *more* guitars to my collection, my other half would
    have a fit!  Are you trying to sell one of yours?!  Besides, I like my
    Martin, I just want to be able to hear it when I'm playing the pubs!

    I reckon I ought to be able to fit something myself (I built in a
    Telecaster bridge pickup and the old Barcus Berry transducer to my old
    Epiphone acoustic in my rock-band days decades ago).

    But what about the "Countryman" mike approach - is that available
    outside the US?  How much?  How does it compare sound-wise with the
    BB-type pick-up - I thought my Barcus Berry sounded pretty fair? 

    Anyone selling second-hand?!

    Andrew

I've got this pickup that came unnoticed inside an old Gibson mandolin I 
bought several years ago.  I decided to give it a shot in one of my guitars
so I tested it out and it does seem to be functional but obviously needs
a preamp.  I looked at a Passac preamp for $150 (just think what it would cost 
if I actually bought it!) but didn't have a chance to try it out.  If you can 
believe the poop sheet, it sounds pretty impressive.  Anybody had experience 
with it or have something else to recommend?

Bob

>    I have a very discriminating friend who's gone through several pickups,
>    and is now using a tiny mic that clamps onto the sound hole.  I
>    haven't had a chance to test it myself, but he say's it's great.
>    Don't remember the brand, but there are several by now.

I think this (from a 1986 noter) is what I want - for sound
reinforcement and recording.  I'm pretty much assuming that I can use
any quality lapel mic for the microphone itself, but I'm interested in
hearing about the clamping system.  Anyone seen any of these?  I don't
see any in the catalogs I have.

My primary requirement is that I have to deal with multiple guitarists,
each with their own instrument(s), and therefore be able to move the
mic from one instrument to another easily.

I have a Washburn EA45N accoustic guitar with an EQUIS II pickup. I
have some problems with the pickup and wondered whether anyone else
had any similar problems or advice.

The pickup has a jack output and an XLR output.  I generally plug
the guitar straight into a PA using the jack output and a DI box.
This works fine and sounds wonderful.  When using the jack output
the built-in pre-amp in the EQUIS II pickup is used - the battery
indicator LED flashes.

I would like to use the XLR (DI) output. When I have tried this I
get a very poor signal - very noisy.  This does not use the built-in
pre-amp.  How can I get the XLR output to work?  Have I can a faulty
pickup?

    Tony.
    

Regarding .32, I finally solved my acoustic guitar sound reinforcement
problem for my church in a way that seems to work well.

� I gave up looking for something removable.  The removables are all
magnetic pickups which don't receive any of the intonation of the body
of the instrument, and thus, don't sound like the guitar.

� I tried the Martin Thinline 332, (a pizeo-electric bridge pickup) and
amplified, it didn't sound like an acoustic guitar to me.  One member of
the congregation complained to the guitarist that his instrumented
sounded like a banjo!  Yikes!

� I tried playing Ovation's and other Acoustic/Electrics at a store, and
the all sounded like a Thinline with a pre-amp and some EQ.  Better. 
Not what I was after.

I figured I'd try the lapel mic solution.  Not wanting to spend a lot
on an experiment, I picked up a $35 omnidirectional condenser lapel mic
at Radio Shack. I also got a bag of spare ebony bridge pins and an end
pin from a guitar store.

� I tried sticking the mic into the end pin hole.  (My plan was to
mount the mic on the end of the spare end pin.)  Yuch!  Mud,
resonances, etc.  So much for that idea. Tried various places inside
and outside the instrument, and only the outside positions were
acceptable.

Then, the solution came to me!

I drilled a hole in the top of one of the spare bridge pins, and
attached a cable clamp (around the lapel mic) using a small wood screw.
Then I just loosened the G string (no jokes, please), popped out the
original bridge pin and replaced it with the "microphone mounting pin".

Tightened up the G string again, and *it works great*. Used it last
Sunday.  Sounded just like a Guitar, only louder, and it didn't require
any permanant modification to the instrument.  I wonder if this idea is
patentable.

The signal is a little bit bass heavy, most likely due to mechanical
conduction of the guitar body into the mic, but a slight EQ at the
mixing console corrected for that.  Also, since it's an omni mic, you
wouldn't want to use it in the presence of loud stage monitors because
of the potential for feedback.  Instrument handling was audible in the
headphones but didn't appear to be a problem in the PA.  A purist would
use a noise gate with it.  You wouldn't have to set the threshold very
high.