Conference hydra::amiga_v1

For anyone wondering, the latest PSX is on Fisk Disk 483.  There is also
another utility that looks similar: PubScreens on Disk 418.

Steve

    Ok, I'll ask the stupid question...
    
    Why would one want to do this?  What are the advantages of using this
    approach over just doing a NEWSHELL?  And what are Public Screens
    useful for?
    
    thanks,
    dennis

>               <<< Note 5179.2 by RANGER::BRANNON "value added" >>>
>                                  -< but why? >-
> 
>     Ok, I'll ask the stupid question...
>     
>     Why would one want to do this?  What are the advantages of using this
>     approach over just doing a NEWSHELL?  And what are Public Screens
>     useful for?
>     
>     thanks,
>     dennis
> 

Well, I suppose one nice thing is that it allows  you to have another
"workbench" like screen to avoid cluttering up the tiny 700x480 main
one.  Public screens also are a wayof allowing various applications to open
on other than the workbench screen (ex. a SHELL on a terminal emulator's
screen)

You can have public screens of different resolution and depth than workbench
so you could open 320x200 64 color screen for real colorful applications
that look boring on a 4 or 8 color workbench.

There's gotta be more uses :-)

Another new thing - The 2.0 NEWSHELL also takes another new argument - WINDOW.
This is documented as being for "programmers only" :-)  It takes the HEX
address of an intuition window already open and the console handler will use
that instead of opening a new one (no idea what use this is..)

john

Well, it makes the workbench *much* more usable. I normally use a full-screen
shell, and a full-screen editor, and a full-screen VLT (when I'm using
them), and want those on the same screen. Having any full-screen window on
the WB screen makes the WB a pain to use - you've got to get that window out
of the way to get to your icons, or find the WB window (if you're in that
mode).

My solution was to spawn a public screen "Shell Screen". My always-open
shell window opens on that. I also run with the shanghai bit set (both
public screen utilities I've seen let you set it), which means that almost
everything opens on the current default public screen. If I run an editor
or a vlt (or anything else) from the shell, it opens on the shell screen.
The WB screen is a keystroke away, and doesn't have anything onboxiously
large windows on it.

Programs can be launced from either screen to either screen, so I don't
have to invoke things from the same window if I don't want to.

Some applications (VLT, for instance) also create public screens, which
means I can open things that *weren't* designed for either public screens
or screenshare.library on them.

	<mike

    Does anyone one use the 2.0 ability to have very large scrollable
    workbench screens?  (Either as a window or a backdrop)  How is this
    better or worse than using public screens?  Both usability wise and
    system resource wise.  Opinions welcome.
    
    I haven't used either yet, but might start as I do find my workbench
    pretty cluttered.
    
    -steve

    I have 2.0 and have tried the big workbench screen.  Its really neat! 
    Scroll occurs when the mouse gets to the edge of the screen, and it
    scrolls very smoothly.
    
    What I'd like to know, is there a way of messing with the monitor's
    internals to get all of the overscan into view;  mine overscans past
    the plastic bezel.  Should I look for the "vertical size/horz. size"
    pots? (original 1080(?) monitor).
    
    JV

I played with large screens on the Amiga, and still use them on my DECStation.
Even on large screens that are visible, I tend to lay things out in
rectangular areas, and keep windows inside of one area (i.e. - a couple
of stacks of terminal emulators, and an area for misc. small things).

On the DS, it's possible to scroll the real window around the virtual
desktop via the keyboard. On the Amiga, it requires grabbing the mouse.
If I could install some form of keyboard shortcut to scroll around the
virtual desktop, I might have stayed with it on the Amiga. As it is,
I threw it out in favor of public screens.

	<mike

    don't left_amiga-arrow_key/left_amiga-shift-arrow_key move the mouse
    pointer?
    
    

re. .5,.7

I agree with Mike.

I've been playing around with both a large "virtual" screen, and
several public/non-public smaller ones, and I like several smaller ones.  
A quick <C=> +m and I can find what I want very easily.  With a large screen
the scrolling is fast, but I don't find it as convienant.  

Maybe someone wants to write an input handler that would intercept a
<C=> + <alt> + <arrow key> and scroll the whole display 1 "visible" screen
in that direction?  That might be neat.  I wonder if you could use
a basic scroll call on the WB screen, and then just replace the 
mouse pointer.  Probably not so simple since it should take any selected
icons, windows, etc, along with the pointer.

What I haven't tried is using a large WB screen, and then running
an app like emacs or a paint program.  Will they open a huge screen
also?  Typically they mirror the WB in terms of dimensions...

Steve 

If you've got an Ultrix workstation, you might try getting a copy of
either vtwm or tvtwm. Those are versions of twm that support virtual
screens larger than the physical ones.

The most notable feature is the "desktop" window. It's a small window
that shows all the "moveable" windows on the virtual desktop. You can
move windows around by grabbing their image in the virtual window and
moving it elsewhere in that window. Ditto for the real screen - it has an
outline in the desktop, and you can move it around the virtual screen
by manipulating the outline.

You can also cause various key combinations to scroll up/down/left/right
by a settable amount. For instance, I use compose-M to go up a full screen,
and compose-M to go down a full screen (this mimics the Amiga public
screen environment). Arrow keys in either the desktop window or over the
background cause scrolls in those directions. F3 resets the real screen
to 0, 0.

Finally, I can "nail" any window to the physical screen. The icon box,
mail indicator and desktop are all nailed down, so they are visible and
accessible all the time.

These things make the "large desktop" a much more palatable environment.
Anyone considering adding hooks to that environment should check these
things out.

	<mike