Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Try a DIR/TITLE=TERM for starters. There are lots of notes containing both fact
and opinion on PD emulators such as VLT, Smokey, Handshake, etcetera.

I picked up VLT quite a while back, and never put it down. I find it far superior
to OnLine!, my former (commercial) comm program. From what I've seen in this
conference, though, other folks have have equally good luck with some of the
other PD packages.

Whatever you get, if you're transferring files you'll also have to pick a
transfer protocol- my vote goes to ZMODEM for that.

Good luck-

	Bob

I vote with Bob on both counts, VLT (which I'm using as we speak) and
ZMODEM (aka SZ.EXE, RZ.EXE).

Others I have used are VT200 (aka Smokey), NComm, JR-Comm, and Access!
all of which have good points but VLT is the only one that meets all
my needs.

Dave

    Thanks for the replies, but I now have 2 questions....
    
    (1) I pulled over VLT and tried running it last night, it seems to work
    ok but as it loads up it flashes up " Libs:xprxmodem.Library " file not
    found. It then seems to load the rest of the program ok. Is this file
    needed ??????
    
    (2)This may sound really basic but how do I actually log onto the
    system at work ??? I was told by tech support here in the plant that 
    to log on using a VT320 all I had to type at the prompt was
    ATD031331....... which would then tell the modem to dial into the
    system here in the plant. How would I go about this using VLT. I get
    the modem today so any help before 5:00pm (British time) would be
    greatly appreciated.
    
    						Cheers,
    							Geo.
    
    

OK, here's some info:

(1) Yup, the XPRXMODEM library is an additional file, which I believe you'll
find on EOT. This is one of several "external protocols" for file transfer-
other f'rinstances include KERMIT and ZMODEM. The external protocol concept
allows VLT to expand to include each "latest and greatest" technology which
comes along (as when ZMODEM supplanted XMODEM as the method of choice). You can,
by the way, ignore the warning if you're not intending to use XMODEM; VLT will
still work fine.

(2) The "ATD..." string is a command to your (locally connected) modem to dial
a telephone number. I'm not familiar with typical British phone number format,
but just modify the string (if you need to) to represent the number you'd dial
from home, and the rest should be the same.

Caveat: if any of the stuff you run *needs* a VT320, you may see some garbage
on you Ami, since VLT doesn't emulate VT3xx (or even VT240/241) graphics. If it's
all text and/or ANSI sequences, no prob.

Good luck-
	Bob

    
>    (1) I pulled over VLT and tried running it last night, it seems to work
>    ok but as it loads up it flashes up " Libs:xprxmodem.Library " file not
>    found. It then seems to load the rest of the program ok. Is this file
>    needed ??????
 
That's probably because you have XMODEM selected as your file transfer protocol.
In the TRANSFER menu (I think) is a submenu named PROTOCOL. Select something
else (one that in LIBS:XPR*)

john

RE: .3

>    to log on using a VT320 all I had to type at the prompt was
>    ATD031331....... which would then tell the modem to dial into the

Whoever gave you this info assumed you had a Hayes-compatible modem.  You need
to check what type of modem you were given to use.  If it is a Scholar (not a
Scholar Plus), then the "AT..." type of command won't work.  The Scholar uses
DMCL (Digital Modem Command Language).  This isn't a problem, it's just that
you'll have to use a different command syntax when talking to the modem. 
Instead of "ATD<number>" you'll have to type "T<number>!" (with no carriage
return).  Then the Scholar will dial the number.

If you have been given a Scholar Plus, you can configure it to accept Hayes-type
modem commands by putting it into "AT mode".  I believe the command to do this
is "Enable AT".  Once you're in that mode, the modem will only recognize AT-type
commands (which are rather cryptic), but the "ATD<number>" should work for you. 
If you want to switch back to DMCL mode, which is more understandable, enter:
"AT&F1" (but you probably guessed that was the command, didn't you ;-)

My advice would be to identify your modem, and try to acquire at least a
quick-reference card for it, better yet an owner's manual, which will explain
all the gory details of word length, parity, etc.

Seriously, doing this isn't difficult at all.

P.S.  I'd like to second (third?) the vote for VLT.  It is the best terminal
program I've used on any machine.  It is quite sophisticated, and if you really
want to know everything it can do I would suggest sending for the free manual (I
did).  It is well-written, nicely organized, very understandable and well worth
the cost of a 29-cent stamp.

Good luck!

    Thanks for all the replies,
    
    I got it all working last night but have to say I got more sucess with
    the VT100 program than VLT. Maybe it's because VT100 is simpler ;-).
    
    I tried to get the VT200 emulator working but it was crashing out as
    there seemed to be a font file missing from the archive.
    Anyone got any idea as to why this was happening ???? I checked the
    archive and the file is definetly missing.
    
    
    						Cheers,
    							George.
    

    re: -.2 
    
    Do you have an address?
    

    I currently use VLT as my emulator of choice, but I don't find it
    totally satisfactory.  There seem to be bugs in the VT100 emulation -
    whenever I use LSE, I seem to get a situation where it gets the screen
    updates messed up when I am typing at the end of the buffer.

    Also, I crave a VT200 or VT3xx emulator.  I don't understand why there
    aren't any.  I would really like a clone of the decwindows terminal
    emulator.

    However, I can't complain to loudly when I am using free software.

	Paul

	I continue to use HandShake, it seems to have all the VTs that 
I need and of course it supports external protocols - I'm using 
Z-Modem.  Aside:  I'm currently going through the  AT command set
learning curve so I can get some sense out of a DF 296; currently I'm
getting around 900 bytes per second when down-loading, so I'm not
totally convinced that compression and speed buffering are working all
THAT well, though I don't expect them to do very much for me on
already compresssed files (-: 

	Reg

    Speaking about Handshake and download speed...  I've noticed that it is
    slower than VLT using the same XPRZmodem.  On my Scholar plus, it is a
    difference of about 10 cps. ~230 under vlt, ~220 or so under handshake.
    It must be the program, 'cause everything else is the same.
    Rob

re: VLT

The only problem that I have with VLT is when using VTX. The keypad 
keeps going to numeric mode (versus application) thus the key commands 
don't work any longer.

It still has the best price/performance of any piece of software I have.

Chris

    This keypad problem was supposedly fixed in a VLT JR version someone
    recently uploaded to EOT::.  Haven't tried it yet myself...
    
    -steve

>    This keypad problem was supposedly fixed in a VLT JR version someone
>    recently uploaded to EOT::.  Haven't tried it yet myself...
    
>    -steve

I have the latest version (5.045 I think) and it is still broken (unless 
I am doing something wrong).

Can anybody confirm or deny this?

Chris

re: .8

>                       -< Where can I find VLT's manual >-
>    
>    Do you have an address?
>    

Sure.  Write to:

	Publications Department
	Bin 68
	Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
	P.O. Box 4349
	Stanford, CA  94309

and ask for a copy of the following report:

	"A Valiant Little Terminal - A VLT User's Manual"
	SLAC Report 370
	by Amanda Weinstein

    Re:all
    
    Well, I finally gave up and got a VT320 terminal for the house.
    If someone comes up with a VT340 or Decwindows emulator (wishful
    thinking !!) I would consider using the Amiga again.
    
    						Cheers,
    							george

> Well, I finally gave up and got a VT320 terminal
.
.
.
>Decwindows emulator

With a VT320 you miss out on mouse cut and paste with SNAP and the review 
buffer (equiv. to scrolling back in DECwindows). I find that a combination of
VLT for convenience and downloading, and the Smokey VT200 for accurate
terminal emulation covers it for me. 

Dave

    Not to mention that you have a multitasking computer there.  I haven't
    posted them cause they aren't very pretty, but I've got a some rexx
    scripts I wrote to allow me to edit files on my Amiga.
    
    It begins with "ced filename" on VMS.  What happens is:
    
    1. compress the file (this is for text only obviously)
    2. sz -b the compressed file to my amiga
    3. invoke a rexx script VLTtoCED on the amiga.  This is invoked
    from VMS via a special control sequence VLT supports.  Works great!
    	a. The arexx script uncompresses the file.
    	b. Sends an arexx edit command to CygnusED to edit the file
    
    Bound to a key in rexx is a similar upload script which assumes the
    terminal is at the VMS prompt (to invoke sz there).
    
    Of course if you have a 9600 baud line this is probably unnecessary.
    Over 2400 baud though, I find it very useful.  Mostly I'm editting
    <50 block .c files.  I wouldn't use it for a minor change, but when
    I want to make a lot of changes.
    
    Anyhow, I can see where if you have some specific program you need
    VT3xx for, then you've got to go to the real thing.  You do give up
    a lot of other things though, I'd be kicking and screaming.
    
    -steve

	Has anyone here tried  'term'  from FF-534 yet ?

	HandShake isn't giving me any problems, just wondered if 
its worth trying something different.

	Reg

    
    Here is the tale.....
    
    Last night I phoned up a guy who does PD software (I got his number
    from shareware shopper mag). I got chatting over the phone and found
    that he lived about 3 miles from me. So instead of ordering from him I
    nipped round. He copied me a few disks and we got chatting about the
    net here at work. To which he then came out with " I got a box full of
    modems but I never got rounnd to using them, Im gonna throw them out"
    "Do they all work" I asked.
    "Oh yeah" He replied.
    You can guess the rest, I am now the proud owner of 10 assorted modems.
    And NO manuals. The one which looked the best was a MODULAR TECHNOLOGY
    modem. I dunno if its hays compatible or not. Does anyone have one of
    these beasties and can give me any info.
    
    Ian T.

    
    Thank you for that most constructive comment. *smile*
    
    Seriously, does this mean its a pile of carp or what.
    
    I have 9 others as well...of assorted types.
    Perhapse if I list those people could give me some feedback.
    I.e. Let me know if they are ALL a pile of carp.
    
    Ian T.

    
    	Ian,
    
    	that was not meant to be judging any of the stuff You have !
    	I really would buy one (suppose You make me an offer i can't
    	refuse)
    	Maybe i also misunderstood the term MODEM , i was dreaming
    	hardware
    
    	KLaus

    
    
    
    Ahhh...Sorry mate.
    
    Im going to try them out tonight. 
    If I get more than one working you can gladly have one.
    Free Gratis and for Nothing.
    
    Ian T.
    
    Mail me your postal adress and I'll get one off to you. (If they work)

    
    Well...the modems look like they work (well 3 do anyway).
    Unfortunatly I dont have any info on them.
    
    Can anyone out there help.
    Does anyone have the init, autodial, etc sequences for:-
    Modular Technology M4021 or
    Modular Technology M2426L or
    Kerridge Computer Systems SB1212D modems?
    
    Pretty Please.
    
    Ian T.
    
    p.s. Adresses of either above company would do. Ta.

    
    For anyone interested in the saga of my modems.
    I have been in touch with both companies concerned.
    Modular Technology were extremely helpful and are sending me a manual.
    KCS want me to ring there tech support desk tommorow and gave me a log
    number.
    
    Its amazing what a response you get when you mention you are from
    Digital. :-)
    
    Ian T.

    
    	Right !
    
    	I found that out too. All of the sudden people switch to
    	friendly voice and nothing seems to be a problem anymore.
    
    	But maybe this is because the deccies ARE friendly people
    	anyway :)
    
    	Now You are going to start a multitasking/multimodem
    	parallel/timeswitched asynchronous wideband network
    	right ?
    
    	Klaus

    
    
    Yeah. :-)
    
    A bulletin board with a 1meg 500+
    
    Why not?
    
    
    Ian.

    
    To close the saga.
    
    I finally got one of the modems working last night. *cheer*
    
    I was hassling the Electronic Yellow Pages (as a test).
    
    I was using TERM from the FF disk. I got the hello message from EYP and
    then nothing. I swapped over to using Ncomm and it all worked fine.
    Both Ncomm and TERM were set up the same. 
    Has anyone else got TERM working at all?
    
    Ian T.

    
    Yes. I got Term working last night.
    A far better emulator than Ncomm it is too.
    
    
    Ian.
    

    
    Some random thoughts
    
    	1.           Getting a term emulator
                     modem, CPU beastie etc to hang together on a Friday
    		     afternoon  before doing on-call support deserves the 
    		     Victoria Cross, but just remember most of them are
    		     awarded pothumously.
    
    	2. 	    5171.17 recommends two emulators for different
    		    purposes, which I also agree has merits.
    			(I use VT100 for KERMIT Server control, and
    			Handshake for VT220 emulation).  What some
    			neophytes may not be aware of is that you can
    			easily switch from one to the other online without
    			effecting your terminal session. This way you get
    			the best of both worlds.
    
        3.	   Re: 5171.20. 10 assorted used modems off the back of a truck
    			seems too good to be true!
    
    Regards.
    
    		    
    

	I had been using Hand-shake;  WATN recently replaced TSN, I 
got hold of a 9600 baud modem, 9600 baud lines opened up on the local 
(free calls from home) exchange and suddenly down-loading became fun 
again.  In the confusion of going to WATN I was unable to down-load 
with Handshake, I think because of the 7 bit space parity requirement, 
anyway I switched to VLT at that time.  Somehow VLT manages to work 
with WATN despite 8N1 parity setting.  I need to figure out a script 
to set up the modem and auto dial, WATN doesn't always connect, so 
re-dialing every time carrier is lost is a pain.
I still don't have VLT set up right, my delete key goes back to the 
beginning of line and if I try to run notes I get lines of lower case 
qqqqqqqqqq where the lines should be.
I'll probably go back to handshake or try TERM sometime soon.

	I think I read in the Handshake docs that an unaccelerated 
Amiga can barely keep up with a 9600 baud line, maybe this is why 
things get flakey if I try to lharc a file in another window as the 
next file is coming down ?  {Maybe I need an accelerator (-: }
Is VLT known to be fragile when multitasked ?   

	Reg

    
    	I have a file called Tony.font to use with my terminal emulators.
    
    	It's a modified topaz and give the correct output (No qqqqqq)
    
    	I'll try and upload it tonight..
    
    	BTW I got it from Tony Miller ( 01 for Amiga BBS 071 377 1358 )
    
    	Steve G 

Re: .33

I, too, have an unaccelerated 2000 and 9600-baud modem, and using VLT have seen
many more problems than with a 2400-baud modem. I had to increase the buffer
size that VLT uses to 256K, so that VLT would not even be copying the buffer to
my RAM disk while receiving data; the delay to do that seemed to cause problems
with handshaking between the ZModems doing the transfer. I'm not sure if this
might be a problem associated with the external library implementation for
ZModem that VLT uses; I'll have to try an old version of AZComm and see if it
has problems with its internal implementation. For now, I am constantly aware
that I must not interfere with the faster downloads, but just let it get on
with it.

re .35

	Ah HaH !    So the WATN and cheap modems are just a wicked
plot by GVP, RCS and Progressive Periphs to get us to buy 68040 cards,
eh ?   I just KNEW it.

	I once tried using a 1K buffer, that seemed very stable.
I think I was dialed directly into LTN, using Hand-Shake and a 
slightly older version of Z-Modem.

	I have had a mail conversation with one of our read-only 
noters  - -  similar symptoms.  This isn't the kind of thing I want to
spend a lot of effort to isolate, but I might try a few controlled 
changes in the next week or two - not a faster machine, just software 
modules and task priorities.

	Reg

re         <<< Note 5171.33 by ULTRA::BURGESS "Mad Man across the water" >>>


>	I had been using Hand-shake;  WATN recently replaced TSN, I 
> got hold of a 9600 baud modem, 9600 baud lines opened up on the local 
> (free calls from home) exchange and suddenly down-loading became fun 
> again.  In the confusion of going to WATN I was unable to down-load 
> with Handshake, I think because of the 7 bit space parity requirement, 
> anyway I switched to VLT at that time.  Somehow VLT manages to work 
> with WATN despite 8N1 parity setting.  I need to figure out a script 

	As indicated in this reply I've been changing quite a few
things recently at a fairly rapid rate.   I didn't take the time and
trouble to really  "LEARN"  the AT command language, I just stumbled
quickly through the DF-296 book, then went to the fold out at the back
and made up an incantation that sets everything up to "super"
(everything as fast as it can go, speed buffering on, X-ON/X-OFF, take
all the options, etc.).   It worked, so I kept it and shut the book. 
Last night I checked my VLT settings, it tries to talk to the modem at
19,200 with no X-ON/X-OFF.  I think its time to sit down, understand a
few of the params I've been twiddling and get things in agreement with
each other (-:    Also, I did check the Handshake document, it claims
that it can keep up at 7200 baud, thats "seventy two hundred"
(presumably on a stock machine). 
Despite all this I still feel that if data comes at VLT too fast it 
should send back some kind of nak if it gets behind  - -  maybe 
smaller buffers make this easier ?   maybe it all works IF all the
settings are compatible. 

	Reg

{slow down to progress faster}