Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Hi,
    At what price will those Enhancer kits be sold?
    (I won't sue you if you're a few dollars off track)
    
    Ave, Frank

    
    Beats me .. the guys at ML didn't know either.

    You said 2MB Agnus chips?  2MB for the A2000?  I thought the A3000 got
    the 2Mb automatically but that the A2000 was shy an address line or
    something that didn't permit the 2mb chip without special mods (which I
    know are available third party).
    
    George
    

    Notes creep!  Could you please relocate this to Note 5007, the "2.0
    Price and Availability" note?  After all, it was only 108 topics ago!
    
    Wes

    The CBM list price for the enhancer package with ROM is $99.95. CBM is
    accepting dealer orders as of today.
    

    Steve at System Eyes told me that CBM was offering several
    seperate pieces:
    
    AmigaDOS/WB 2.0x
    Motherboard ROM
    A26x0 ROM(s)
    "Super" Denise
    "Super" Agnes (ie. the 1Meg chip)
    
    Does the enhancer kit include everything?  It seems like it might
    just be AmigaDOS and then you'll pick up whatever else you need
    seperately.  Then again, all that can add up pretty quickly, so
    maybe it would at least include the standard ROM and/or Denise?
    
    Any ideas?
    
    Steve

    Re .6:
    
>   Steve at System Eyes told me that CBM was offering several
>   seperate pieces:
>   
>   AmigaDOS/WB 2.0x
>   Motherboard ROM
>   A26x0 ROM(s)
>   "Super" Denise
>   "Super" Agnes (ie. the 1Meg chip)
>   
>   Does the enhancer kit include everything?  It seems like it might
>   just be AmigaDOS and then you'll pick up whatever else you need
>   seperately.  Then again, all that can add up pretty quickly, so
>   maybe it would at least include the standard ROM and/or Denise?
    
    I have to believe that $99 would ONLY buy the AmigaDOS/WB 2.0x and KS
    2.04 ROM (possibly including installation).  The "Fatter" (1MB) Agnus
    chip costs around $100 all by its lonesome and I'd assume the other ECS
    chips have similar prices.

    Sigh... Guess we've abandoned the earlier note on this subject.  Memory
    Location has a fax posted by the door showing the price for ROM,
    diskettes and manual (for A500 and A2000) as $99.  Don has ordered 150
    of 'em for immediate delivery and more for later on.  He expects
    delivery literally any day now.
    
    Wes

    re: .7
    
    None of the prices include installation.
        John Sauter

    Just picked up some information from the dealer here in Colorado
    Springs.
    
    A500/2000 ROMS, Software and Manuals		79.95
    A3000     "                       "			39.95
    A2620/A2630 Upgrade kits				27.50
    
    None of these prices include installation.
    No price given for Enhanced Chip Set.
    
    I am expecting to have the new Workbench ROMS installed late this week
    or early next. The dealer is still awaiting delivery

    There is a good possibility that System Eyes will have them tomorrow
    afternoon. His distributor received them today and Steve requested
    overnight shipment.

 Since we are sticking with this note I think it would be useful to have
 a consolidated description of the various pieces that make a 2.0 system 
 current and/or make full use of the new 2.0 ROM. Can anyone give a synopsis
 of the various roms and "Super" chips for someone contemplating the upgrade
 for an existing 500 or 2000?  Someone implied that the new 500s come with 
 the (3000 like) 2 meg chip Agnes. I thought I was current until I saw that.
 I know 2.0 roms are worth it to me, but upgrade prices and "is it worth it" 
 comments are of course welcome re: the other chips. At this juncture I'm
 not sure it would be prudent  ;^) to upgrade an old 500 considering the cost
 of news ones.

 Thanks,
 Dave

    OK, I'll take a stab at summarizing the 2.0 upgrade components:
    
    1)	2.0 Enhancer package (KS ROM, software, manuals) - around $100
    	You gotta get this if you want access to any of the 2.0 features.
    
    2)	ROM switch - around $90 for software controlled (hold mouse
    	buttons, etc.), manual switch versions are around $40.  (I think
    	somebody posted info about building your own in an ealier topic.)
    	This allows you to select different KickStart versions (e.g. 2.0
    	or 1.3) at boot time.  You don't need this if everything you use
    	is 2.0 compatible, but it may be necessary for some software,
    	particularly games.
    
    3)	ECS (1 Meg or 2 Meg) Agnus - $100+ (?)  You *CAN* use 2.0 without
    	an ECS Agnus, but having it allows greater use of Amiga's multi-
    	tasking capabilities, etc.  I'd recommend expanding fast RAM before
    	investing in the Agnus upgrade.  A few programs react poorly to a
    	machine with only chip RAM, and besides, you'll need the extra
    	memory to utilize the benefits from having more chip RAM.
    
    4)	ECS Denise - $50-$100 (?)  Again, you don't need this to run the
    	2.0 software.  It's primary benefit is the addition of a couple of
    	new "productivity" display modes, which can be used only with a
    	multi-scan monitor.  I'd suggest putting your money into one of
    	the display deinterlacing products (CBM's Display Enhancer, ICD's
    	FlickerFree Video or MicroWay's FlickFixer) and multi-scan monitor
    	before the ECS Denise.  

Nice summary. If we take this a step further, then you are saying
the ~$175 that we could spend on 1 meg agnus and ECS denise would be
better spent on something like the Supra RX or Baseboard with say 2 meg
RAM for the 500, or any of many memory boards for the 2000 with as much  
memory as `$175 will buy. 

Question about the 2 meg Agnus:

Is this in fact an option on older rev Amigas?  I'm doubtful. And, 
if it is an option, which memory board would satisfy the requirements 
in a 500? I don't think C= even makes a trap door board with more than 
1/2 meg. It seems strange that they might support 2 meg chip in the 500 
if you need a 3rd party trap door memory board to use it.

Hmm... I hope this isn't going into too much of a tangent.

Dave

    The 2 Meg Agnus adapters (for non-3000 machines) that I've seen mount
    RAM chips for the second meg on the adapter.  I don't remember whether
    these claim to fit the A500 models or not.  Any restrictions would most
    likely be of a mechanical nature (components, shields, etc. in the
    way).
    
    It seems to me, if you seriously believe you'll need 2 megs of chip
    RAM, it makes more sense to move up to a 2000 or 3000 model.  The A500
    simply wasn't intended to expand into the upper range where such
    features become important.  You'll want *lots* of fast RAM, a faster
    processor, etc. which will never fit as cleanly into a 500 system as
    they would on a machine designed to be expandable.

    Follow up to .10
    
    I picked upt the official Amiga Release 2 kit about one hour ago and
    installed the Rom myself. The price was 79.95. Dealer installation is
    $20.00 Since my system is no longer under warranty anyway, I decided to
    do the install myself,(pretty easy all in all!)
    
    At first glance the Manual alone is almost worth the cost of the
    update. It is a very nice 3 ring binder with REAL information on
    AREXX,AMIGADOS, and more...
    
    Just FYI... I installed the ROM and booted the system off my existing
    1.3 software on the internal harddisk, (GVP series II). Am using VLTjr
    to communicate. Everything is working just great!!
    
    Well off to install the new software. It really is here!!

    Re: .16 and others who have the roms:

    It would be helpful to the rest of us if you pioneers could keep us
    posted on problems with the migration up.  I have experimented with
    developers versions which run the "rom" in ram, and it looks to me like
    the migration might be a little rough.

    My main question at this time is whether to get one of the rom switches
    to allow fallback to the old roms.

	Paul

    
    Where did you pick it up?

    I picked mine up Saturday from Paragon Computer on Colo Springs for
    $79.95.  
    
    I could not get it to work with my MultiKick start adapter.  I beleive 
    I know what is wrong with it.  But I have been having to much fun 
    with 2.0 to bother to fix it right now.  I followed the diagram in the 
    Amiga manual it had pin 31 as the mode pin held high.  Pin 1 was marked as 
    A17.  The 2.0 Rom comes with a jumper from pin 1 to pin 31 for older rev 
    mother boards.  I need to remove the +5V on pin 31 and wire it for A17 on 
    the Adapter module. 
    
    Its an very well thought out package.  It has a very well done manual it
    has a few minor mistakes files not being in the directories the manual
    states they are, probably due to last minute changes.  No big deal.   A 
    lot of the manual is reserved for new users and most old hands wont find it
    useful, though an occasional useful tid bit is to be found.  The Arexx
    section is very good and the manual contains a good index.  The getting
    started manual is all you need to install the chip and get your system
    updated.  All in all a very well organized manual in a spiral bound
    3 inch thick note book.  
    
    They recomend reformating the Hard disk drive as the Rom version of the 
    Fast file system is better organized.  But only after backing up the 
    drive under 2.0.  I just did a disk to disk copy to a spare disk.  
    Reformated DH0:  Ran UPdate WB then moved my aplication directories back.  
    You also need to remove all referances to L:FastFileSystem.  From any
    mount list or RDB device.  They step you through running HDUtils for that.
    My ICD disk controler did not need that.

    I found I did not need most of the PD utilities I had collected for 1.3.  
    But there is a lot of PD utilities for 2.0 I can fill my disk up with. 
    
    The FFS for floppies is very stable.  You can now get 779K on a
    floppy.  And a special Mount List is not needed as the format is sensed
    as it is mounted.  But this is not compatible with 1.3 systems.  You will 
    need to use the old file system if you are going to be moving between
    operating systems.  
    
    For Bridge Board users.  There is a warning about not reinstalling the
    Janus software.   We need to wait for Janus 2.1 to be released.  Simply
    copy the Janus library into the expansion directory and if you kept every 
    thing in the PC directory copy that to the Hard disk.  For owners of CPU
    accelerators you need to turn off datacache or run "enforcer quiet" before
    BindDrivers.  My hurricane accelerator does not have a Data cache (just
    Instruction) so I do not have to worry about this.    Has anybody
    heard any rumors as to when Janus 2.1 is to be released?   Thers always
    something to wait for.
    
    
    
    Alan       

    
>    Its an very well thought out package. 

I agree! I picked my package up Saturday also. It was really pretty easy 
to install the rom and software. The only manual effort was in including 
the modifications that I had made to startup-sequence (1.3) into 
user-startup (2.04) and shell-startup.

There are some things that I don't like about it. 

1) I don't particularly care for the click to front commodity
2) The screen blank commodity is kinda dull
3) I couldn't get the conclip stuff to work

I still use Dmouse, Fracblank and snipit for these functions. Also the 
toolmanager from ff527 is a must have. This allows you to put programs 
in your tool menu.

However, there are so many things that I do like that I can't list them 
here. The price of the upgrade is *extremely* reasonable considering the 
quantity and quality of software, hardware and documentation that you 
get.

Still having fun,

Chris

    Having waited for 2.0 before upgrading my 1.2 ROM, is there any problem
    doing this?  Does the upgrade kit have any motherboard version or chip 
    prereq's?
    
    
    ...Ed

It looks like it only affects the way you treat the A17 jumper from pin 1 to 
pin 31.

Amiga 500's REV 3 and REV 5 leave the pin 1 to pin 31 jumper intact

Amiga 500's REV 6A and above remove the jumper

Amiga 2000 B2000-CR mother boards Rev 4 and above remove the jumper 
for REV 3 leave the jumper intact

Older machines with the 1986 Commodore Amiga 2000 Made in Germany (BSW) 
copyright you must leave the jumper intact.

    I just picked up my V2.04 Enhancer Kit at the Memory Location. Price
    was $90.00. Don received 24 kits this morning. I walked out with the
    first one about 30 minutes ago. Still no A2620/30 -06 ROM kits though.
    
    Paul

    I installed V2.04 last night ... what a headache. Not any fault of the
    system mind you, just circumstances.
    
    Here are a few things to be aware of before you start:
    
    o  V2.04 will not work with A2620/30 boards unless you have -06 REV
       ROMs installed on those boards. However, it will work just fine in
       68000 mode. The ROM kits cost about $35 and should be available this
       week sometime.
    
    o  The new FFS for V2.04 is said to be double the speed of the V1.3
       FFS. It is necessary to remove all references to l:fastfilesystem
       and GLOBVEC = -1 from your mountlist entries.
    
    o  Only Quarterback 4.4 or later will backup files on V2.04.
       Earlier versions will not. After installing the ROM and boot 
       I used the HDBackup program supplied with V2.04 to backup my hard
       disk under V2.04. A bit slower than QB, but it got the job done.
       The manual states that the files must be backed up UNDER V2.
    
    o  Since I am using a GVP Impact II SCSI controller, I ran FaaastPrep,
       selected WRITE from the menu to take care of the RDB and install
       the new V2.04 FastFileSystem, and then reformatted the disk.
    
    o  I then used the V2.04 WBUpdate disk (later realized it wasn't necessary)
       to install the complete V2.04 system onto my hard drive.
    
    o  I then ran HDBackup to restore selected files from 36 backup
       floppies. Unfortunately, I lost my WORK logfile when I reformatted
       the hard drive, so I had to restore the entire 36 floppies. To do
       this I restored them to RAM:. Since it is done in alphabetical
       order, I was able to keep MOVE'ing files as each directory was
       restored.
    
    o  Finally, everything was back to my DH0: drive that I needed. The
       next step is to backup and reformat DH1: and DH2: partitions on
       my second drive. Then I need to modify my V1.3 startup-sequence and
       shell-startup files.
    
    So far so good. The new operating system was worth the wait. The docs
    are very complete and represent a better effort than with any previous
    releases of the OS. 

    
    Re .-1
    
    Quarterback 4.4 ???
    
    Where does that come from?  I spoke to New Horizons yesterday and they
    told me 4.3 is the latest and there will be no more until V5.0. Update
    notices will be sent out for 5.0.  I asked when 5.0 was coming out and
    they advised me "not to hold my breath".
    
    Frank
    
    

    
    Yep .. you're right 4.3.

  Question time....

   Can you have the new fast file system on you're drive and still be able
  to use wb1.3 ala multikick board?
   
 
							Ed


 

I need to modify the Multikick board for address line A17 on pin 31 instead 
of pin 1 as shown in my Amiga schematic.  I plan on doing that this weekend.

But you would need have to copy the 1.3 version of FastFile system 
to your hard disk for use under the 1.3 ROM.  Or just boot from a 1.3 floppy.  
You will also need different mount list.  The 1.3 mount list needs 
L:Fastfilesystem and 2.0 does not as it gets it from ROM.  Commodore has 
provided a Fastfile system on the 2.0install disk just for this purpose.
Its a 2.0 version of the FastFile system with some features removed.

Its outlined in the getting started manual.

The only program I have found that has a problem with 2.04 is Marauder.  It
crashes as soon as you click on start.  No wonder it was dong nonstandard stuff 
to the Trackdisk.device under 1.2.

The good news was I was able to boot a Fast File floppy from my 5.25 inch 
Amiga disk with CB's interface as DF2:.

I do sort of miss the hand with the floppy.  But the Animated floppy is nifty.

Re: .24

>    o  Only Quarterback 4.4 [really version 4.3] or later will backup files
>       on V2.04.  Earlier versions will not.

What's the problem with Quarterback?  Does it crash under WB 2.04, or is
there some other problem?

I've heard that disk backup programs run into trouble with the new fast
file system since the backup programs do not know how to treat file
links.  If that is the only problem, I'd expect Quarterback to be able
to handle my existing hard disk partitions.

    re: .11
    
    System Eyes received its shipment of the AmigaDOS 2.0 update kits for
    the A500 and unaccelerated A2000.  They arrived by truck late
    yesterday, and as of closing time Steve had already sold three.
        John Sauter

>    yesterday, and as of closing time Steve had already sold three.

Make that 4 copies sold... Just picked up a copy - $99.00.

john

John, I must have just missed you.  Make that 2 less Enhancer kits, as
Randy was there picking one up also.  They seem to be going fast, so 
make sure to call before making a trip.

Steve

    Still no A2620/30 ROM Upgrade kits?

The Memory Location had sold out of their first shipment as of 6pm yesterday.

Got mine, but now want a multi-kickstart widget to switch back to 1.3 on
occasion. Already found a few games, demos, music thingies etc that don't
like 2.0.

Frank

    Is it possible that we could start a new note listing programs/games
    that appear to have problems with the upgrade?
    
    
    Roger

    re: .34
    
    As of last night System Eyes had approximately 12 left.
        John Sauter

    re: .35  New note for upgrade problems.
    
    Excellent idea!  I'd suggest three at a minimum, that is, if this
    notesfile can keep a little discipline. :-)  They would be
    
    	Installation questions/notes (including floppy-only system tricks)
    	Games discussion (including news of 2.0 compatible upgrades)
    	Applications and utilities discussion
    
    AmigaDOS 2.04 is tremendously impressive now that it's finally here. 
    But I also expect to have spots of difficulty migrating my old
    customizations to the new environment.  Lots of others out there no
    doubt will have things to talk about, too.  So I suggest we get
    organized at least a little bit before diving in.
    
    And just to contradict myself, I'm going to write the first
    installation question in a new note.  :-)
    
    Wes

Registered Gold Service systems are suppose to be getting the 5 disk release
and manual update automatically. I called the gold support number and they
confirmed this, but knew nothing about when this is suppose to happen, or
where I should call to find out.

If any USA Gold service users receive their kit, could they post a quick
note here so we know that the shipments are taking place?

Thanks!

    I just picked up the new 2.04 kit from system eyes last night and 
    did the install. It seems to be working OK. I like the way they
    have you use the USER-SETUP file instead of the startup file.  I'm 
    not sure I like the new screen yet, but it is easier to read.

    Bob
      

    Re.: 22
    
    Some info for the users of the '86 "Made in Germany" A2000-A:
    
    Last weekend I spoke with someone from the technical support at the 
    AMIGA '91 in Koeln/Germany. He said, that there is *no way* to run 2.0 on
    the A-version! He has one by himself, and it doesn't work, cause
    you can't plug in the new ROMs.
    
    They are very sorry for the A2000-A users, but they had to make a cut,
    and they know very well why not to produce the A-version any longer.
    So the only way to run 2.0 on AMIGA is to trash your machine.  :-(
    
    If anyone has other information, he may post it here.
    
    For avaiability information of 2.0 kits in Germany: They will be in
    the stores this week or next week. The price will be about 199.-- DM.
    
    Tobias.
    
    

    re -1
    
    Tobias,
    
    can you tell me an store were I can get the ROMS.
    
    I called Seemueller here in Munich, but they only say:
     	"maybe before X-mas or next year"
    
    If you want you can call me back:
    
    	dtn 865-3800 or 865-3055
    
    or privat
    
    	Tel:      089/569051
    	email:    [email protected]
    	Zerberus: [email protected]
    
bis dann...
    		Thorsten
    

Re: .40

That's strange, because my AmigaDOS 2.04 upgrade package came with
(I believe) instructions for installing the ROM in Model A machines.
I'll check this tonight.

re (.42 re .40)               

> That's strange, because my AmigaDOS 2.04 upgrade package came with
> (I believe) instructions for installing the ROM in Model A machines.
> I'll check this tonight.

	I think they refer to the  "older machines"  and there is some 
kind of marking on the left side that says something like  1986 
commodore amiga 2000 made in Germany (BSW).   Whether this is exactly 
the  A2000-A  machine or not I don't know, but I think it is the only 
reference to a made in Germany machine.  I don't remember any explicit
reference to a machine that the upgrade CANNOT be used in.

	Reg

    Re. 42/43
    
    Hey,
    
    would be fine if it would work! Please check it! But I wonder, that
    someone of the technical crew of C= sais "it doesn't work" and it
    works.
    
    Normally they say "it will work" and it doesn't... :-)
    
    Waiting for further details...
    
        Tobias.
    
    

Because I have been asked for more details, here is the name 
and number for the Amiga dealer in Colorado Springs.

Paragon Computers
1045J Garden of the Gods Road
Colorado Springs  CO  80907
(719)548-8803
(800)648-2887

    A500/2000 ROMS, Software and Manuals		79.95
    A3000     "                       "			39.95
    A2620/A2630 Upgrade kits				27.50
    
    None of these prices include installation.

They will accept phone orders from anywhere.

** Disclaimer **  I have affiliation with PARAGON other than being a 
satisfied customer.

Re: .40, .42

I finally remembered to look at my Kickstart 2.04 ROM installation
instructions.  If I read them correctly, they tell you how to install
the ROM in a model A Amiga 2000:

Quote

Installation for the 2.04 Kickstart ROM differs depending on the PCB revision:

1> Newer A2000 motherboards are marked "B2000-CR" in the lower-left corner.
   The Operating System ROM, U500, is located just to the right of the
   68000 and below Fat Agnus.  Pin 1 faces rear.  For Rev 4 and above, cut
   or remove any jumpers from the top of the 2.04 ROM chip.  For Rev 3
   boards, the 2.04 ROM IC must have pin 1 jumpered to Pin 31.

2> Older machines are marked on the left side with "(C) 1986 COMMODORE",
   "Amiga 2000" and "MADE IN GERMANY (BSW)".  The Operating System ROM, U2,
   is located just to the right of the 68000.  Pin 1 faces forward.  For
   these boards, the 2.04 ROM IC must have pin 1 jumpered to Pin 31.  This
   connects A17 (pin 1 on the ROM chip) to A17 (pin 31 from the PCB).

Unquote.

The printed circuit boards described in the paragraph marked 2> refer
to the Amiga 2000, model A (or A2000).

Paragraph 1> describes the Amiga 2000 model B or B2000.  Note that just
about everyone has a Rev 4 and above board.  Revision 3 boards were early
demo units sent to dealers and magazine reviewers.  Theoretically, they
were never sold to the public.

The ROM comes with a small wire soldered between pins 1 and 31.  If you
have a "new" machine, you cut the wire.  If you have an old machine,
you leave the wire in place.

I just received my automatic GOLD SERVICE update package for 2.04. It simply
arrived in the mail, and consisted of 5 disks and the manual pages that changed.
Pretty neat. I didn't have to call or anything. While I was already running
2.04, I'm glad to mane the man pages.


Keith Barrett
(Connecticut)

    What is the GOLD SERVICE?
    
    I understood the service to be maintenance only, such as repair at the 
    home or office where your amiga lives. 
    
    Does the service mean more than that?  The way reply .47 reads is as
    thoough the service was responsible for the upgrade of software too. 
    Is this true or did that happen because of the warrenty and
    registration.  If it mean free software updates, I think I should send
    my card in for GOLD SERVICE.  
    
    Thanks in advance for the info!
    Gail

    I think you need to have your dealer set up the Gold Service as
    opposed to just sending in a card.
    							bill

If I remember correctly, CBM offers 2 types of service; DEPOT service, which is
basically the ability of getting your system repaired cost free while under
warrentee by dropping it off at the dealer, and GOLD service.

To get Gold service, your dealer must submit something, and you must submit
the gold service card and a copy of your PO. Gold service provides the following

1) On-site repair of your system; usually by the end of the next business day.

[I had to take advantage of this 3 times myself. They Fed-Ex'd a new mother-
board/whatever to a nearby location where a repairman picked it up and
installed it right at my house. The repairmen weren't always the greatest,
so I made sure I was always there.]

This ONLY covers CBM parts that were part of the original system, or CBM
parts installed by or approved by the dealer. They keep a record of your
system configuration after each repair.


2) Free disk upgrade to 2.0 when officially released (3000 owners only)

[This was because 3000 systems were shipping with beta releases of 2.0]


3) Option to extend this service up to 5 years for an additional fee

[I have no idea if this is still available, or what it costs. I'd like
to know though, I may want it.]


4) UX owners have access to a special 800 number that also includes technical
support for software problems (UNIX only).


Since this is all cost-free; why would anyone NOT send in for this service?
Especially considering how new the 3000 and 2.0 were.



Keith