Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Can anyone tell me if V2.0 will run on ANY A500? I had talked to a
    sales person/shop owner who said that if I owned an A500 with pins 1
    and 2 of the expansion bus connected together then I could not use V2.0
    of the operating system. Is this true, do the ROMs mentioned in .0 fix
    this. If there is any incompatibility is there a note that discusses
    this? I do not know what REV my A500 is at but I am sure it is pretty
    old. Do I need the wis bang Angus chip to run V2.0
    Thanks in advance
    Mark 

    Your dealer has the update. I don't think cbm is going to ship them.
    								bill

    I have an ks 1.3, and I hear it was an 256kb chip. Will the ks 2.0
    still be in a 256kb chip ? I saw some software kickstart 2 and those
    files where over 512kb ? why are those file so big if the CBM ks 2.0
    fits on a 256kb chip.
    
    	I'm troubled as you see ;-)
    
    						Erik

    Re: .3
    
    The socket in the A500/A2000 can take either a 258K or 512K chip.  The
    2.0 Rom will be 512K.  I think this is much better than having to load
    it from Floppy or hard disk.
    
    -----Robert

    Hi,
    
    	Why is it that there is so much disinformation regarding WB/KS2.0
    
    	"Do I need a bloody enormous Agnus to run it? Will it work if I
    	 have a decrepit mother-in-law with a club foot, or a nasty rash?
    	 Will I need to swing my A500 around my head to display the new
    	 productivity mode?"
    
    	I think that since CBM have stated that it is available for A500s
    	as an update we can be assured that it will work with our machine.
    	However, if we do not have certain chips we may not be able to see
    	certain new modes ... but all the old modes we usually see will
    	still be there, and they're all supported, so smile  %^).
    
    								- JIM CAD*
    
    	"Don't worry - be rubbery"
    
    	P.S. No offense intended.

Any word on whether this will be available to A1000 users with lots of
memory to burn for KS and such?

BobW

    Hi,
    
    to make the list of AMIGA computers complete: What about the users, who
    first bought an AMIGA 2000 with an A-motherboard? Is there also a
    possibility to upgrade to 2.0, or can't we do so, cause we cannot
    plug in a Big Agnus?
    
    Does anybody knows if there will be an upgrade kit for the A2000-A
    also?
    
        Tobias
    
    

RE: Last couple

Like I said, I believe that the rumours about what you need to run V2.0 were 
probably due to the V2.0 support of ECS modes and the new productivity mode.

However, AmigaDOS is AmigaDOS, and I think that since your skinny Agnus can
support lo-res, hi-res, overscan, interlace, HAM etc. etc. at the moment, but
not the new ECS modes because it is skinny, does not mean you cannot run V2.0
After all, V2.0 supports all the old modes and adds a few new ones, but if you
just want to use the old modes anyway, why would you need a huge Agnus when you
are doing fine with a skinny one under 1.x?

If anyone could clear this up completely, I would be happy; this is only my 
opinion, but from what I have read it is a logical way to look at things. One
other good clue to support the above is that I have myself seen a "hacked" V2.0
running fine on an A1000 which certainly would have had an emaciated Agnus, the
thing ran fine, but the new modes weren't supported. No troubles however, and
certainly no need for a Fat chip just to get it going.

Sounds like good news to me!!!

								- JIM CAD*

    I knew a guy that ran a copy (early) 2.0 on his 1000.
    							bill

From: [email protected] (Bryce Nesbitt) 29 Aug 91 
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA
 
>Will this enhancer kit include the ECS Denise and/or ECS Agnus chip so we folks
>with 2000- and 500-series machines can go to productivity mode, or is
>that an 'unofficial' upgrade?
 
In order to keep the cost down, ECS is not part of the Enhancer Kit.   You
could talk to your dealer about having ECS installed at the same time as
the 2.04 upgrade kit.

------------------------------------------------------------- 
From: [email protected] (Martin Hunt) 30 Aug 91 
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

> I am also curious as to what is on each of the 5 disks.  
 
Workbench, Extras, Fonts, Install, and SuperKickstart (3000 only).
 
>I don't think Aggie Ecs and Dennie Ecs will be included in the
>package...
 
They are not required for 2.0, so you are not forced to buy them.

------------------------------------------------------------- 
From: [email protected] (Jason Goldberg) 30 Aug 91 
 
Close. A3000 Install, A3000 Extras, A3000 Workbench, SuperKickstart, and
only one disk of CompuGraphic fonts.  Actually, only three typefaces, but
more important is that 2.04 does include outline fonts!  The next question
is how long it will take develpers to support them.  [...] Currently
Scala 1.1 is the only program I know of that supports the outline fonts
and it works great!
 
------------------------------------------------------------- 
From: [email protected] (Ewout Walraven) 
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

>>Is there going to be a ROM release for the 3000 after everyone else gets
>>theirs, or are the A500/A2000 ROMs going to be compatible?  It would be
>>nice to have that 512K of RAM back!
 
>From what I have read, you can use an A2000 ROM inside the A3000, supposidly
>the jumpers are there to do that. Of course it probably will be 16 bit and
>very slow, but to get 512K ram back really quick I guess you could do that..
 
No, you cannot use an A2000 ROM in an A3000. When/how A3000 ROMS will be
available has to be decided/announced by Marketing. They have not done that
yet, as soon as they will I guess you'll hear about it. Likewise for 2.0 for
the A1000.
 
------------------------------------------------------------- 
From: [email protected] (Martin Hunt) 30 Aug 91 
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

>Oh. Okay. So the answer to "when do I get kickstart in ROM for my A3000?" is
>never.
 
Where did you see that?  While very few people are screaming for 3000 ROMs,
they will likely be available.
 
>That's funny. I would have thought they could have scraped up enough for
>two ROM chips from the $4000 they got. 
 
Most people probably won't want ROMs for their 3000 because they will
slow your system down.  You would be better off buying another meg of
RAM.

------------------------------------------------------------- 
From: [email protected] (Kriston J. Rehberg) 3 Sep 91 
Organization: SUNY Binghamton
 
2.0 does run on a stock Amiga 1000 with expanded memory...
 
I have a friend with an A1000 who uses Zkick/Kickit (the latest
developer release he got gives you a choice).  As for the ROM CHIPS,
again, Commodore proposed a solution for that:  the Power Up program,
which would get A1000 users into the mainstream; another route is the
Rejuvenator board.
    

I've heard - but not verified - that the original US 2000 boards (the A2000
or 2000-A or whatever) were not designed for 512K ROMs. That would
keep them from running 2.0 enhancer kits meant for B2000s.

That's the only thing that would keep an Amiga from running 2.0. You may
lose features without ECS, but they'll be display modes and related (at
one point, superbitmap overscanned WB didn't work without ECS; I don't
know if that's still true or not) things.

	<mike

Re: .11

>I've heard - but not verified - that the original US 2000 boards (the A2000
>or 2000-A or whatever) were not designed for 512K ROMs. 

The A2000 was only produced and sold for about a month.  They were only
sold in Europe (remember how the 2000 was available in Europe a month
or two before North America?).  The only A2000s in North America were
review units shipped to magazines (the original Byte article on the 2000
was an A2000) and dealer demo units.  I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer
demo units didn't end up getting sold as used machines.  I know my dealer
occasionally sells his demo machines at a good discount as used machines.

Even if this rumor is true, A2000 owners can always upgrade by getting
a replacement motherboard.  If you wait to Commodore is producing
motherboards with the ECS and Kickstart 2.0 ROMs, you can minimize the
cost of the upgrade.  Personally, if I owned an A2000 instead of a B2000,
I'd want to do the mother board swap just to stay current.

For those of you about to panic.  The A2000 and B2000 are almost slang
terms used inside of Commodore when talking about the early Amiga 2000
versus the modern Amiga 2000.  These were not official marketing terms.
Neither the box your Amiga came nor the manual that came with it are
going to say "B2000" anywhere.  The Commodore slang is particularly
bad considering it is quite common to refer to the Amiga 2000 as the
A2000.  There is a quick way to check to see if you have a B2000 (the
new model).  If you have three RCA jacks on the back of your 2000
(left and right sound along with a monochrome video jack) you have a
B2000.  The A2000 lacked the monochrome video jack.

    Re: .12
    
    Maybe you're right, so I live in Europe, I bought one of the early
    A2000, and it has no monochrome video jack. So, after reading your
    reply, I'm once again shure to have one of these A-A2000.
    
    If I don't want to exchange the motherboard, you think I can't run 2.0?
    
    Can someone tell - in some words - the benefits of 2.0? What will I get
    if I would change my motherboard? Is it worth to do so?
    
       Tobias.
    
    

Here are some of the things I know which have improved with V2.0 (I don't 
actually have 2.0 so maybe 3000 owners will be able to provide more info)...

	New bas-relief 3D styling, revised gadgets etc...
	Some often used CLI commands in ROM (CD, DIR etc... always available)
	Shell in ROM (command history/editing *always* available)
	New more useful disk-window info, no fuel-gauge any more
	Better utils, new iconedit, expanded PREFS etc...
	AREXX support to allow inter-task communication/control
	Standard system requesters available for developers
	Fully multitasking WB, no ZZzzz wait for disk-access etc...
	Default icons provided so all files may have icons displayed
	Files may be viewed as text, with info such as size/date etc...
	WBstartup drawer, so an application can be started at boot-time
	Better system font support, can be proportional/any size
	Support for CompuGraphic fonts & outlined fonts
	(ECS) productivity mode (very high res)
	Disk icons can be on WBbackdrop or in a window to allow easy access
	Many new menu options....

This is probably the tip of the iceberg, gleaned from a UK magazine review...
anything I've missed?
								- JIM CAD*

>	Fully multitasking WB, no ZZzzz wait for disk-access etc...

Is this true? The version of 2.0 I saw on a friends A3000 was not.

john

    I don't know if the WB is multitasking or not, but my 3000 still gives
    the pocketwatch when a disk is being loaded and during other disk
    accesses.  Maybe multitasking didn't make it into 2.0.  Maybe it IS
    multitasking, but still holds up activity while the disk accesses are
    taking place.
    
    
    Tony

The 2.0 WB is much better about multi-tasking than the 1.3 one.  It still
isn't up to the level of JazzBench, though. Mike Sinz keeps muttering about
"the great WB rewrite" which will fix that, a host of other problems, and
add a bunch of features (including ARexx support).

The advantage not mentioned is that applications written for 2.0 - and
they already exist, thanks to it being a year late - will be able to
take advantage of a large number of UI extensions, which should make
them all smaller, faster, and more consistent.

Also "all your favorite hacks are built in". There's a blanker, mouse
accellerator, menu bar clock, click-to-front, window/screen cycling
via the keyboard, capslock disable, superbitmap workbench, workbench
as a regular window instead of BD, an application-usable menu, application
icons on the WB, and the ability for applications to detect icons dropped in
their windows (i.e. - iconedit does a "load" on any icon dropped on its
window; very convenient).

	<mike

re             <<< Note 5007.0 by KALI::PLOUFF "Devoted to his Lawn" >>>
>             -< AmigaDOS v2.0 Price and Availability Information >-

>    For existing Amiga 3000 owners, Commodore plans to release a five disk
>    update set.  For A500/A2000 owners, Commodore will make available a
>    Release 2 Enhancer Kit, with new ROM, diskettes and full documentation. 
>    Installation will be through an Authorized Commodore Service Center. 
>    Release 2 Enhancer Kits will be available beginning in October. 
>    Pricing will be announced shortly.

	Any news yet on the pricing ?
 
	R

    I picked up the 5-disk set for my A3000 last saturday at memory
    location.  Virusx complained that the install and workbench disks
    had non-standard boot blocks so I rewrote them and everything went
    ok, but beware if you get the disks from there.  While I was there
    they noticed a virus on some word processing disk they were demoing
    as well.
    
    There was no additional written documentation.  In particular, I don't
    think I have anything on how to run "fountain" which is I assume a tool
    for managing the outline fonts.  Maybe someone could give a quick run
    down on how to use this (close your eyes bill :-) ).
    
    Also, I have been unable to get HDBackup to set the archive bits when
    a file is backed up.  Maybe someone has a suggestion.
    
    All in all, it looks very nice.  Although, after all this time, it had
    better!
    
    -steve

What makes you think the people here are discussing hacked or pirated
versions of WB when they talk about running it on the 1000/500/etc?

CBM distributed KS images suitable for running on those machines, as
well as the software needed to get them to start. You do have to be
a developer to get them legally, but that's not hard to do.

Not to say that there _aren't_ pirated version floating around. I just
wanted to point out that there are legal version of what's being described.

	<mike

    Since .18 is missing I presume that is what he was talking about...

    Re: .21
    
    The Reason VIRUSX complained is because the bootblock has CHANGED for
    2.04; it is not a Virus. The boot block now includes the version of
    AmigaDOS, and the file format (FFS, OFS). Someone should also warn
    System Eyes before a virus scare starts and everyone destroys their
    2.0 bootblocks. Obviously they haven't figured out that everytime they
    do an "INSTALL DF0:" command they are creating one of these disks.
    
    I assume VirusX will eventually be updated so it doesn't bark at it. You can
    restore the original bootblock by using the new 2.0 install program.
    For now, I keep copies of both install programs so that I can create
    floppies with either bootblock.
    
    
    Keith Barrett
    PAMSRC::BARRETT

    
    Thanks for the info, makes me feel better.  I was kind of worried that
    maybe one or more of the executables on the disk were bad as well.
    
    -steve

    Hi,
    
    Isn't the shell in 2.0 meant to be ala un*x style with piping,
    redirection etc.....
    
    Dave.
    

    Re .26:
    
>   Isn't the shell in 2.0 meant to be ala un*x style with piping,
>   redirection etc.....
    
    I don't have the direct answer to your question, but I should point out
    that you can have all that under AmigaDOS 1.3 with WShell and ARexx
    (both from William Hawes).  Add ARP v2 (public domain), and you can use
    U*IX-style wildcards ('*' instead of '#?').  It's all pretty neat (in
    addition to which, it allows you to define a bunch of ARexx macros that
    execute as commands).
    

Its always been there.  For example, I regurlarly say:

DF0:SYSTEM/DISKCOPY <NIL: FROM DF0: TO RAD:

if I want to use an rrd workbench...

You can take input from: "<", send output to ">" (such as "DIR >RAM:FOO.BAR"
and append, "<<" and ">>"

BobW

>================================================================================
>Note 5007.26    AmigaDOS v2.0 Price and Availability Information        26 of 27
>COMICS::HOGGAN "No, I am not kidding !!!"             7 lines  25-SEP-1991 06:22
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                -< Is it true? >-
>
>    Hi,
>    
>    Isn't the shell in 2.0 meant to be ala un*x style with piping,
>    redirection etc.....
>    
>    Dave.
>    
>

    I also recommend Steve Koren's SKsh, a ksh (korn shell) implementation. 
    It comes with built-in, online man pages of all commands and implements
    most unix-shell functionality.  ksh is sortof a cross between sh's
    programming languages and csh's niceties (like command completion and
    command line editing).
    
    Oh...not for the light in memory!  SKsh isn't TOO memory hungry but was
    a little much to run when I had only the 1 Meg.  For those without
    memory, there is a TinySKsh distributed too.
    
    George
    

AShell from ARP also allows pipes using the PIP: device (I think).

so 
	 dir | sort | more  

will work

I was at The Memory Location this past weekend and asked them about 2.0. They
said that it should ship the first week of October. They had no idea on pricing
yet.

Also, I have heard that if you have an older a2630 (68030 accelerator) you
need newer roms to run 2.0. Since that is the case with me, I have them (TML)
checking into this for me.

Frank

    I would like to see WShell adapted to 2.0 . I think it is the best
    shell I,ve seen on the Amiga todate. Of course I haven't seen the shell
    in 2.0 but it would have to be much improved to beat Wshell.
    								bill

    Re: .33  (SALEM::LEINBERGER) {I Like WShell}
    
    I talked to Bill Hawes yesterday (Author of AREXX & WShell).  There
    will be a new version of WShell out in a couple of weeks.  It will be
    version 1.2 (I think)   This version will have a lot of features for
    AmigaDOS 2.0, however, it will still run on 1.3 (without some of those
    new features.)
    He will mail update notices to registered WShell owners when the new
    version is available.
    
    -----Robert

    Word from Commodore -- the Amiga 500 WILL support AmigaDOS v. 2.0.
    
From: [email protected] (Peter Kittel GERMANY)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: 2.0 ROMs for A500 ? (YES!)
Date: 8 Oct 91 13:04:24 GMT
Organization: Commodore Bueromaschinen GmbH, West Germany
Lines: 36
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Greg Harp) writes:
>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Peter Korsten) writes:
>>
>>A Commodore NL employee told me that (as far as he knew) the ROMs for
>>the Amiga 500 (like I have one) wouldn't be available because it
>>needed some hacking (I think some daughterboard, which can't fit in
>>the case) to put the chip in. Is this true ? Can anyone confirm or
>>deny this ?
>
>Ok.  Now hear this:  THE 2.0 ROMs WILL WORK WITH THE AMIGA 500!
>
>The problem that has been brought up is that an address pin had to be added
>in order to access an additional 256K of ROM.  When the A500 was designed,
>256x16 (512K) ROMs were not available, so Commodore's engineers had to 
>guess where the extra pin was going to go.  They made a pretty good guess
>(IMO) but it was unfortunately wrong.
>
>Therefore, for A500 motherboards of Revision 5 or before, you will have to
>run a jumper between two of the pins (pins 1 and 31, if memory serves, but
>DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT!).
 
Pin numbers are correct, BUT: You won't have to do this yourself!
The ROMs will *all* come with this jumper wire installed. And if you
have a newer Amiga that doesn't need/like this modification, then
simply cut the wire off. Rumor says that this ROM rework causes some
delay in shipping.
 
>The ROM should come with detailed directions on how to install the jumper.
         ^^^^^^ will                                    ^^^^^^^ remove
>I would guess that your local dealer would do it for you for a minimal charge.
 
This is the supposed way.
 
-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to  \\  Only my personal opinions... 
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk

    I just picked up AmigaDOS V2.04 at the Memory Location in Wellesley.
    Price was $90.00. Don received 24 kits this morning for the 2000.
    Still no A2620/30 -06 ROM kits though.
    

    25 -1 MOST LIKEly . dealers are facing a 25 limet for now. I Have mine
    on order at System Eyes. I hope it comes in tomorrow. 
    							bill

Has anyone see this upgrade in Germany, please with adress.

	thorsten

    Thorsten,
    
    i remember an ad in AMIGA PLUS. Will look it up tonight and let
    you know.
    Another good address is of course COLOGNE this weekend.
    
    KLaus

I picked up my 2.0 this morning at The Memory Location. I opened it after
arriving at work, and found that it was missing the ROM! So, I called TML
and they are holding one for me. I would suggest that others check the
contents of their upgrade kits to make sure everything is there before
leaving the store.

Frank

    
    Was it sealed with the silver-colored sticky disk?
    

Yes it was, everything was in there except the rom. Even the really tacky :-)
proof of purchase sticker!

Frank

    The AmigaDOS 2.0 update kits are again available at System Eyes in
    Nashua, NH.  There were 18 left as of last night.  Sorry, no A2630 ROMs
    in stock.
        John Sauter