Conference hydra::amiga_v1

       Here is some info from a flyer I got at the Dayton Computer Fest
    this past weekend.
    
       I have no connection with this company, and never purchased
    anything from them.  But their prices do look pretty good.
    
    	Newman Computer
    	Hard Disk Specialists
    	Buy, Sell, Exchange, Repair
    
    	2345 Rt 9 Bld 8
    	Toms River, NJ 08753
    	(908) 905-2800  Fax (908) 905-2801
    
    SCSI
    
    Ref	Seagate		ST225N		 20mb	60ms	HH	$100
    New	Syquest		SQ555		 40mb	28ms	HH rem	$325
    New	Seagate		ST296N		 84mb	28ms	HH	$295
    
    New	Seagate		ST1096		 84mb	23ms	3.5	$325
    New	Conner		CP3100		100mb	25ms	3.5	$375
    New	Seagate		ST1239N		210mb	15ms	3.5	$625
    Ref	CDC		94171-307	320mb	16ms	FH	$750
    
    Refurb drives warranty 6 months, new drives 1 year, Add $6 shipping.
    

    I couldn't let note 5000 go by without a cute comment - it would spoil
    tradition.  :-)

	Paul

    re .1 - thanks will call tomorr morning.

    Hmm from the list in .1 the syquest looks nice. 
    
    Is anyone using a syquest on an amiga 2000 - preferably on a GVP SCSI 
    series II. If so did you have any troubles getting it going??
    
    how much are the cartridges??
    
    regards, and thanks
    kevin 

    They have a Syquest 44 meg at System Eyes. It is running on a 2000
    with a GVP controller. They had the toaster software loaded on it
    and I have also booted from it. Cartridges vary in price from $99.00
    down. The drive comes with one cartridges.
    								bill

Hi,

This mystical Syquest thingy keeps cropping up... Here in the UK, these devices 
don't exist. One company used to advertise them but no longer trade and the 
other company, Diamond, don't sell them. (I did get quoted a price of 650 pounds
for the drive, but they didn't stock them!)

So, if anyone in the UK has ever seen one of these, or better still, knows where
to buy one, then please post it here......

Dave, who seriously doubts if these exist :-)

    I have a Sysquest 44MB on my 2000, but with the ICD Advantage.  It is
    an external one made for a MAC.  I put the ICD card in, plugged in the
    drive, ran the ICD software to partition the drive and was up and
    running in not time.
    
    I seem to have quite a few read/write errors on all my cartidges and my
    original cartridge is totally junk after 6 months of use.  It's my only
    disk, and thus my boot disk so I don't have any other disks to compare
    it to for reliability, but my PC at work never gets read/write errors
    on the hard disk.
    
    I'll probably pick up a 20-40MB disk for the system disk when I can
    afford it and see if that helps.  Other than the read/write errors, the
    disk performs well.  It seems to be very fast for a removable. 
    
    Terry
    

    Anyone have any experience with the Ricoh 50meg removable(forgot the
    model number).  I've read reviews that it is more reliable than the
    Syquest but haven't heard from anyone with personal experience using
    the drive.
    
    mark
    

>    Anyone have any experience with the Ricoh 50meg removable(forgot the
>    model number).  I've read reviews that it is more reliable than the
>    Syquest but haven't heard from anyone with personal experience using
>    the drive.
    
    GVP replaced their SYQUEST offering with a RICHO drive for exactly the
    reason you give (reliability).  I have seen several SYQUEST drives (not
    the cartridge) go bad, almost always with a head-stem getting crunched. 
    The RICOH drives do accept the same size cartridge (physically), but
    seem to me roughly the same quality as the SYQUEST.  I am not sure that
    the GVP decision is one of reliability as much as it is one of
    economoics (better discount?).
    
    Many other controllers can and do work on the SYQUEST and RICOH drives. 
    At the risc (intended) of starting a rather RHOUS (rodent hole of
    unusual size) I avoid using GVP stuff whenever I can.  They are
    problimatical when you add them to existing machines.  If you add any
    new device to a machine you will go into the finger pointing mode while
    GVP points anywhere but to themselves.  GVP does NOT support a set of
    drives they support only drives they approve for use with their ROM
    sets.  Eg.  GVP claims that Conners disks are not true AT disks.  So
    their ROMS won't work with the Conners disks (very good disks that work
    perfectly well with any itty bitty machine AT controller, but won't
    work with the GVP crap).  When they work, the GVP users are VERY happy! 
    But just look through the notes file here and note how many problems
    are trying to get GVP stuff to work with some configuration.  Then note
    how LONG the notes are!  Look at the frustration, etc. If all you buy
    is GVP you are probably going to be fine.  But if you buy anything
    different, you probably will have trouble.  There are better ways to go
    IMHO.  Finally on GVP bashing, they are the absolutely WORST company
    for getting back to you on service.  Even C= is better than GVP. 
    Although their service is VERY GOOD at repairing their own equipment
    and boards, they are terrible at getting back to you with
    troubleshooting help.
    
    Suggestion:  Go the RICOH or SYQUEST route (RICOH is made in Japan,
    SYQUEST is made in USA [engineered that is, i suspect they are both
    made in Mexico or Korea, Tipan, etc.]).  I could be wrong on this, but
    I think that this is correct.  And choose a different controller.  The
    differences in speed are minimal for most applications (including
    video).  TrumpCard Pro, GrandSlam, ICD, aree all fine (sentence
    fragment!!  Ooh..bad!!!)  I usually avoid NEXUS stuff I don't trust the
    people behind the company (purely personal view).
    
    Clark (AKA The Dred Pirate Roberts)

I have a 44mb Syquest that I bought about 2 months ago mailorder from a company
called APS (Alliance Peripheral Systems). APS couldn't have been nicer to deal
with. They shipped the drive FedEX for a reasonable rate. They normally ship
UPS 2nd day.

I paid $469 for the external version of the drive. The external version comes
in a very nice (small) case, with power in/out, SCSI in/out, external/internal
termination, and an external SCSI ID select switch. The case also contains
a very quite fan for cooling. It also came with a 25 pin to 50 pin SCSI cable.
The drive was sold for a MAC, so it also come with formatting software and
18MB of PD and Shareware MAC software. Since I have AMAX, this was an added
bonus.

I have an A2091 controller, and the drive formatted and worked like a champ.
Also works great under AMAX. The drive also come with 1 cartridge. So far,
I have not had a single glitch with the drive. It is not my system disk, but
I have been using it quite heavily.

APS also sells the cartridges for $69 for one, or $65 each in a case of 10.
A friend also bought one for his MAC, and he and I split a case. He has
not had a single problem with his either. I have formatted all my cartridges
and none had any errors. The drive comes with a two year warranty, and the
cartridges with a one year warranty. Both are replacement warranties.

APS also sells various SCSI tape/disc and CD-ROM drives for reasonable
prices. They definitely had the best price on the Syquest drive and
cartridges.

Frank

    Rep: .10
    
     About the gvp stuff...
     I'll have to disagree with you on thier service point.
     I had a board that was acting up (early series II model), when I
    finnally called GVP they gave me a RM # number.
     I sent it in and they replaced it with a brand new board (and The
    latest revision) along with software and manual.
     It took about a week.
     Being one of the people who entered one of the notes on having
    problems, I can tell you now that anytime (and I do mean anytime) you 
    mix hardware between vendors, you've got a chance of having problems.
     This is true on IBM's as well as Amiga's (personal expierience),
     probably all computer platforms.
      Conner drives that Dec uses have there spin up bit disabled. This was
     the problem I read about.
      Also the Decstation (IBM Clone), with it's standard SCSI adapter,
    also fails to spin up this drive if the spin-up bit on the drive hasn't
    been set.
      I myself would recomend GVP.
    								Ed
     
      

    re: .11
    Do you have APS' phone #?
    
    re: .10
    I am using a GVP II disk controller.  I've called their technical
    support group a couple of times and the only response I have ever
    gotten is, and I quote, "it should work!"  ha ha ha  When I had
    my A500, Supra's techinical support was just as bad.  
    
    md

    RE: .11
    > About the gvp stuff...
    > I'll have to disagree with you on thier service point.
    
    Please re-read .10 again, I don't think we are disagreeing Ed.  I said
    that they DO service they're own equipment well.  What I did say was
    that they are VERY unresponsive about getting back to you with
    troubleshooting information.  And the response once they do get back to
    you, as supported by .12, is usually finger pointing or the "gee...should
    work!"  Economically I understand the need to keep troubleshooting to a
    minimum.  Especially unsolicited customer troubleshooting over the
    phone.  On the other hand  why do they have enough problems that the
    customer support IS a financial impact?
    
    > I had a board that was acting up (early series II model), when I
    > finnally called GVP they gave me a RM # number.
    > I sent it in and they replaced it with a brand new board (and The
    > latest revision) along with software and manual.
    > It took about a week.
    
    Good!  You've brought up another problem I have with GVP.  If their
    stuff is sooo good!, Why is it that there are billions and billions
    (slight Sagan exageration) of ROM revisions for GVP firmware?  Humm?!
    
    > Being one of the people who entered one of the notes on having
    > problems, I can tell you now that anytime (and I do mean anytime) you 
    > mix hardware between vendors, you've got a chance of having problems.
    
    A chance is NOT the same thing as having a problem!  I have mixed alot
    of Amiga hardware and software.  People bash C= 2091 cards here, but it
    seems to work almost all of the time!  GVP, IMHO, is a guaranteed
    incompatibility problem lurking in the form of a board.
    
    > This is true on IBM's as well as Amiga's (personal expierience),
    > probably all computer platforms.
    
    Actually I would support your previous statement compeletely if you
    said that it is true especially of IBM's!  Try to get two clone
    machines to run the same software set.  Can take hours!
    
    >  Conner drives that Dec uses have there spin up bit disabled. This was
    > the problem I read about.
    >  Also the Decstation (IBM Clone), with it's standard SCSI adapter,
    > also fails to spin up this drive if the spin-up bit on the drive hasn't
    > been set.
    
    I'm talking about AT disks in .11, but it doesn't matter whether it is
    Conner or not.  GVP told me they don't support some Quantum's as well. 
    Only discs which they sell!!!!  It bothers me that I have to buy a disc
    from GVP to be secure in the knowledge that it will work with their
    controller.  That alone would prevent me from recommending GVP
    controllers.  Especially with the fluctuating disc prices.
    
    >  I myself would recomend GVP.
    
    It is difficult to be objective once we have bought anything.  I have
    owned GVP products and other products as well.  Given the number of
    problems users of GVP equipment have in getting it to work with
    anything (not seeing that same problem with other equipment) I've come
    to the conclusion that GVP is not the best purchase route for me.  I
    thought I would share those views since they were requested.
    
    >								Ed
                                                                Clark

    I had GVP point a finger once, but I persisted and told them that it
    was their responsability to meet CBM's spec(problem was 2058 memory
    card at 4 meg gurued. They asked my rom versions, and then sent a rom,
    and pal overnight. I haven't had a problem since. Now all that is gone
    replaced by a GVP with eight meg onboard. 
    	In reply to the frequent issueing of roms, pals, software etc, yes
    GVP does this, but rather view it than "if it is so good why" I look at
    it as constant change for the better. I know that if I see a rom change
    GVP will update me on request without a hassel. I have heard the It
    should work dodge, but it was always followed by a discussion that 
    fixed the problem. I'd rather deal with a company that is in constant
    R&D as opposed to one that puts a product out, and then forgets about
    it. I have seen many GVP's sold thru my dealers, and can't remember
    ever having a problem that was not resolved quickly to the customers 
    satisfaction. I also like dealing with companies based in the USA, If
    I lived in Europe, I would be doing things with people over there.
    	I'd love to be STUCK with a GVP 33mhz card if anyone has one they
    don't want.
    							bill 

    
    re .7
    
    	In the U.K. I'v just seen an advert for both the 44-Meg and the
    88-Meg SyQuest drives (44-meg drive for 365 pounds + VAT at 17.5%)
    
    The company is DSI (Direct Services International) 
    Phone no :- 0494 473716 or phone their BBS on 0494 439671 (HST 14.4)
    
    	Steve G (I have no connection with DSI just saw the advert)
    

    re: .13
    
    The phone numbers for APS are:
    
    US		800-233-7550
    UK		0800-897-545
    Austrailia	0014-800-125-875
    
    All numbers are toll free.
    
    There address is:
    
    2900 S. 291 Hwy
    Independence, MO 64057
    
    Other phone numbers:
    
    816-478-8300
    816-478-4596 (fax)
    
    Frank
    

Hi,

I live in the UK and was wondering that if I ordered from the States, would
there be any problem? I was quoted a price of $477 inc shipping. Would the drive
work on my UK machine? (I think that is should, but I would like conformation.)

Dave.

    Hi,
    
    Re .18
    
    I was referring to the Syquest 44Mb removable drive.
    
    Another question: How much does the Quantum 52Mb drive cost in the
    States? And the IVS Trumpcard? Would they all work in a UK machine?
    
    Dave
    

     Here we go.... :')
 RE: .14
        
>    Please re-read .10 again, I don't think we are disagreeing Ed.  I said
>    that they DO service they're own equipment well.  What I did say was
>    that they are VERY unresponsive about getting back to you with
>    troubleshooting information.  And the response once they do get back to
>    you, as supported by .12, is usually finger pointing or the "gee...should
>    work!" 

     Point taken, I apologize for misunderstanding you're original statement.
     And yes, I've heard the "gee should work" and gone through finger
     pointing.
      However, I tend to believe that most of this results through a lack of
     information, after all, only recentley have vendors started co-operating
     with each other in providing compatability between different products.
      When I had problems between a GVP series 1 card and a Supra ram card
      I also recieved a bit of finger pointing, again however, GVP told me
      If I sent in my Card they'd try that configuration and test my card 
      for me.
      It turned out to be the Expansion case I was using... A Pacific 
      Peripherals subsytem. Wich had a burnt trace on it.
      However GVP did offer to help (the second time I called).
      I think the standard rule of thumb is to be persistant, but polite.
      If the service person you're taking to can't help you, ask for someone
      else.
      
         Economically I understand the need to keep troubleshooting to a
>    minimum.  Especially unsolicited customer troubleshooting over the
>    phone.  On the other hand  why do they have enough problems that the
>    customer support IS a financial impact?
    
        Again, 3 vendors I've worked with. Supra, GVP, Spirit Technologies
     have tech lines, I've found GVP to be the best of three.
        I believe any customer support lines provide a financial impact and
     don't understand how you can conclude that GVP is the only one suffering
     from this.
        I also believe that GVP does try to make thier product as compatible
       with other vendors as possible, and since they have a large installed
       base, more configurations will be tried and more problems are found.
        


    > I had a board that was acting up (early series II model), when I
    > finnally called GVP they gave me a RM # number.
    > I sent it in and they replaced it with a brand new board (and The
    > latest revision) along with software and manual.
    > It took about a week.
    
>>    Good!  You've brought up another problem I have with GVP.  If their
>>    stuff is sooo good!, Why is it that there are billions and billions
>>    (slight Sagan exageration) of ROM revisions for GVP firmware?  Humm?!

     There is nothing wrong with constant improvement.
     It's a users choice to upgrade if he finds that a new revison offers
     a solution or improved speed. 
      ie: removable media support. faster access time. maybe a bug fix.
     There are probably users out there that have some of the ealier
     series 1 boards, and thier needs are such that they don't need anything
     new.
       And I'm not shure but I believe they've had about 4 revisions in about
     2 years, and however I know that the card I recieved out-performed
     it's predecessor. 
       ie: does not require the spin-up bit set on drives, and spins them up
     almost immeadetly. 
    
    > Being one of the people who entered one of the notes on having
    > problems, I can tell you now that anytime (and I do mean anytime) you 
    > mix hardware between vendors, you've got a chance of having problems.
    
>>    A chance is NOT the same thing as having a problem!  I have mixed alot
>>    of Amiga hardware and software.  People bash C= 2091 cards here, but it
>>    seems to work almost all of the time!  GVP, IMHO, is a guaranteed
>>    incompatibility problem lurking in the form of a board.
    
      Almost all the time? Seems to me I've seen alot questions (especially in
     the original usenet amiga files ) about this product. 
      By the way, didn't the 2091 just get upgraded roms/pals, or are people
     still waiting. We're these to fix an unforseen hardware configuration, or
     a bug fix? (not being a jerk, I'm just not shure)


    > This is true on IBM's as well as Amiga's (personal expierience),
    > probably all computer platforms.
    
>>    Actually I would support your previous statement compeletely if you
>>    said that it is true especially of IBM's!  Try to get two clone
>>    machines to run the same software set.  Can take hours!

      Add new hardware and you could be talking days...
    
    >  Conner drives that Dec uses have there spin up bit disabled. This was
    > the problem I read about.
    >  Also the Decstation (IBM Clone), with it's standard SCSI adapter,
    > also fails to spin up this drive if the spin-up bit on the drive hasn't
    > been set.
    
>>    I'm talking about AT disks in .11, but it doesn't matter whether it is
>>    Conner or not.  GVP told me they don't support some Quantum's as well. 
>>    Only discs which they sell!!!!  It bothers me that I have to buy a disc
>>    from GVP to be secure in the knowledge that it will work with their
>>    controller.  That alone would prevent me from recommending GVP
>>    controllers.  Especially with the fluctuating disc prices.

     Well, all I can say is I've experimented with 80 meg quantums (scsi)
     100 meg quantums (scsi) as well as a number of Seagates and conners all
     scsi. 
      Some I had to tinker with, some not. I still can't blame GVP if they 
     don't support some drives... Perhaps drives from unsupported sources 
     could possibly have incorect configurations that GVP doesn't feel 
     responsible for.
      Also the AT drives (so I was told by the service rep) are only supported
     on the accelerated gvp card (the 50mhz one).
      This card as far as I can tell doesn't use SCSI just AT.
      I suppose that they use the same software disk for setup though.
    
    >  I myself would recomend GVP.
    
>>    It is difficult to be objective once we have bought anything.  I have
>>    owned GVP products and other products as well.  Given the number of
>>    problems users of GVP equipment have in getting it to work with
>>    anything (not seeing that same problem with other equipment) I've come
>>    to the conclusion that GVP is not the best purchase route for me.  I
>>    thought I would share those views since they were requested.
    
    >								Ed
                                                                Clark
      You're right, I've tried others and I'm happy with GVP.
     
								Ed

    I'm going to let this drop, because I agree with you that we are not
    going to convince each other of the 'goodness' or 'baddness' of GVP
    products.  But (;^)) since you asked about the 2091, it was to fix a
    bug in the code.  It has had one revision (since release) and the fix
    was actually accomplished a long time ago (over a year), but we have
    had to wait for C= manufacturing to catch up.  In comparrison...no I
    promissed to drop it!
    
    Clark

    I have a 44Mb Syquest on a Microbotics Hardframe, works quite well.  My
    main use is for backups, on occasions I left it running for a few days
    and so far not a single error on any of the three cartriges I have.
    
    I read a review of removeable drives in a mac publication, they
    compared Syquest with Ricoh and Bernouilli.  The Syquest had the worst
    record BUT they are the most prevalent and the oldest.  While it is
    true that the Ricoh is a better design, the drive and cartriges are
    more expensive, I paid $670 (including taxes) for a drive and three
    cartriges last year (that's Canadian $).  A equivalent Ricoh package
    would have been about double.
    
    My hardframe had to be upgraded to the latest ROMS (1.9) to properly
    handle the removeable media, now I can change cartriges just like
    floppies, BIG floppies.
    
    Jean
    

    My thanks for the phone number as well - I now have a Syquest
    somewhere ebtween the USA and Australia (should arrive tomorrow
    hopefully).
    
    Now I just have to hope that a GVP Series II with V3.07 ROMs will work
    straight off.
    
    regards kevin