Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    I'm bascially against online instructions for games. If people want to 
    exchange tips, tricks etc great, but if "instructions" means how do
    you start the game, what is the keyboard layout and such I don't think
    it prident to post it here. My feeling is contact the distributor and
    get another set. Posting them here is akin to making copies on a
    copier.
    								bill 

    RE .1
    
    I disagree.
    
    Obviously a full set of instructions for a game isn't on but I see no
    harm in a "how do you" kind of question related to a game that the
    player no longer has instructions for.
    
    
    
    				Jamie.

    The last time someone asked me for help it was in regard to Prodraw.
    Basically they wanted to know how to finish when drawing in line mode.
    Not thinking I showed them. Another question made me realize that the
    person had the product but never saw a manual, box or anything else.
    Now before I get a lot of "Well I'm insulted etc" replies, I am sorry
    if this is taken personally by anyone, but I stand on my opinion of 
    online instructions. Awhile back I asked for help myself and after
    It was stated RTFM (read the ****** manual), and I did and made it
    apparent my question was answered. I was quick to reply that I had the
    manual but fully understood the request. I am always asking help with
    Imagine, but if I lost the manual I'd try to get it replaced, and that
    would be very hard with IMPULSE even if your registered. I put name 
    lables in all my documentation. I think the thing to do is to look at
    the request on a case by case basis, make a decision and act on that
    decsision, but to put a blanket set of instructions out on a game that
    has a ten page manual is not for me. AT ANY RATE A "How do you get the
    Game to run" question should not even be considered.
    								bill   

Instructions on how to wrap a brush on DPaint IV demo.  I don't have Dpaint III,
but am planning to purchase DP IV and would like to give it a try.

    >>  I am always losing the instructions for my games,the most recent
    >>  being Armour Geddon. I think it would be a good idea to use this note
   
     >>to exchange instructions for games as Im sure many other people have
    >>also lost games instructions. So I will kick this note off by asking
    
    
      I never lose games instructions. If I spend 25 to 30 quid on a game I
    make damn sure that I don't lose the instructions. On the other hand,
    if someone pirates a piece of software, the key to getting it running
    is the instructions.......
    
    Phil Gill. 

    			
                             -------
                            /       \
    			   / WARNING!\
    			  /  RAT HOLE \
                          \   AHEAD!  /
                           \         /
                             -------
                  

    I think some of you guys have had a cynicism overdose.
    
    Ways I can lose documentation :
    
    (a) I bought the game second hand with no docs.
    (b) I threw it out with the piles of printouts.
    (c) The wife "tidied it up" for me.
    
    I don't know; a whole plethora of feasable explanations - all quite
    possible - so why automatically shout "PIRATE PIRATE - DOCS ? NOT FROM
    ME MATEY! PIECES OF EIGHT PIECES OF EIGHT!!!".
    
    I have lost docs for software in the past, some of it I paid 40 or 50
    pounds for (75-90 dollars). It happens. I, for one, wouldn't doubt that
    it could happen to someone else; I'm not perfect and I'm not
    self-righteous - just because some of you are so organised that you
    never mislay anything doesn't mean that it's the "norm".
    
    If I have the software and someone asks a question about it I'll try my
    best to answer. RTFM is sometimes not applicable even if it's IN the
    FM. How many times do you see questions addressed in notes conferences
    about Digital products that could be figured out by reading the manuals
    ? Daily at least! And we all have legal access to the documentation. So
    why shouldn't the same happen when the product is not "our own" ?
    
    
    					Jamie.
    
    BTW; In the game "Gramanthus" by Esoteric Dreams, it asks you for an ID
    before it lets you get to the main screen of the game - does anyone
    know what I have to type ? ;-)

    I agree anybody can lose instructions. However if you are reading this
    note file, and see a request you can't really make a judgement as to
    what is happening. You have no way of telling if they are lost or never
    were available. In this vein I feel this is not a proper place to put
    these instructions. Of the ways to lose software I don't agree with
    "I buy it used and the instructions are missing".(you never had them)
     Go back to whoever sold it to you, he is probably using them with the 
    copy he made before selling the game to you, or forget it. If a person 
    buys used software they get what they purchased, we diden't sell it to 
    you we should not have to supply the docs. I sold Pagesetter to peter C. 
    ,and then called Gold Disk to transfer support over to him. He not only 
    got the docs but the support. Of course I HAD TO GIVE UP MY SUPPORT to 
    this product. It is not a matter of holier than thou. I gave valid
    advice, when I said call the software company for a copy of the docs.
    as far as cynicism, I wasen't born with it but I have seen enough
    software theft to develop it. I had a guy come by my house with three
    breadtrays full of software. after I told him I wasen't interested in
    "Trading" with him he never dropped by again. I see him at the dealers
    once in awhile looking over the consignment shielf. I have never seen
    him purchase any software. He does however have a high rate of lost 
    instructions. 
    		"I lost my instructions" is destined to go down in history
    next to "It's in the mail"  I have stated the last to people over the
    phone, and while I knew it to be true, they sounded doubtfull, and I
    could not fault them on that. This is a good lesson for us all. Keep
    your docs in a safe place, and send in the cards. 
    PS. fyi Cry.arc was on this net for a long time. This was an illegal
    copy of a fine game that was marketed for a short time(I wonder why it
    was only for a short time), of course Cry.arc was more popular than the
    commercial version because the protection had been cracked and removed.
    hows that for cynicism????????  

    It's against the Copyright law to copy all or portions of the game
    docs.
    I think that says all. If you lost your docs, contact the distributor
    and send the proof of purchase or original disk so that he will
    give/sell you new docs.
    
    Regs,
             Miguel

    RE .8
    
    :-p  !!!!
    
    RE .9
    
    Who mentioned copying game docs ?

    re -1
    Well nobody mentioned the word explictly, but instructions are
    sometimes considered docs. The root note asked for Instructions in
    a manner that indicated "complete" instructions. This defaults to docs.
    Now we have beat this to death but to na avail. The fact that the last
    noter wants to split hairs to justify giving instructions to anyone
    that may have a copy, or bought a copy without instructions shows how
    sad of a state it is in. Then we wonder why developers have to go thru
    extremes to copyprotect their products. SEE if this is simple enough to
    understand. TO HECK WITH THE PEOPLE WHO LOSE THEIR DOCS. I SAY
    SCARIFICE THEM FOR THE GOOD OF THE WHOLE AMIGA COMMUNITY. IF THEY HAD
    A LEGALE COPY THEN THEY COULD, AND SHOULD GET THE DOCS FROM THE
    SOFTWARE COMPANY. IF THEY CAN'T THEN TOUGH, THEY SHOULDEN'T BE USING
    THE SOFTWARE. IF THEY CAN BUT CHOSE NOT TO THATS THEIR DECISION.  
    	IF THAT IS NOT PLAIN ENOUGH TRY THIS.
    MOST PEOPLE I MEET THAT DON'T HAVE DOCS, DONT HAVE THEM BECAUSE THEY 
    STOLE THE SOFTWARE. (THEY LIKE THE WORD TRAID) GIVEN THEIR IS AN
    AVAILABLE SOLUTION(NOTIFY THE COMPANY) FOR THE HONEST PERSON , I CAN
    ONLY ASSUME THAT PUTTING INSTRUCTIONS HERE IS FOR THE "OTHERS"
    								BILL 

    Oh Bill, you're so eloquent when you're angry!
    
    But here's a little tip just for you; don't assume that just because someone
    disagrees with you, you have to "simplify" your reasoning - it's
    really not that complex to begin with.
    
    Having said that, I still disagree with your cold hearted opinion, as
    is my right. I also believe that this is one of those issues that could
    just go on and on about with no final ressolution so might I suggest that 
    we "agree to disagree" ?
    
    
    				Jamie.

    Typing instructions in this or any conference is, in some way, a copy
    of parts of the docs of a program. (Re: .10)
    
    Stop, this is leading to nothing, I would say, let those who want to
    type instruccions here type them, and those who disagree just don't
    write them!
    Agree or disagree, that's the question.
    Do what you think is correct!
    
    Regs,
                 Miguel

    This topic is going in a black hole. We'll never Agree & all Disagree
    on this Topic.
    
    					Erik

    I can agree with this!
    								bill

Y'know, it occurs to me- we could arrive at a truly weird synergy here if we
combine the content of several notes:


adventure-game-interest + game-docs-rathole + modem-programming-project =
	new_game_programmed_via_modem_team:


			THE ULTIMATE RATHOLE!


It should be a superlative maze game; the kicker is, IT HAS NO SOLUTION!!!


(You can enjoy *anything* if you put your mind to it...)

Cheers,
	Bob

I would be concerned with the copyright laws in duplicating 
instructions/docs/whatever from a comercial product in a DEC conference.

john

     I tried to warn you all in re: .6, but did you all listen??? 
    Noooooooooooo. ;')
    
    								Ed
    

    Ed warned us about this several posts back. I have seen this before,
    and it will probably be seen again, until someone post copyrighted
    stuff, and or uses bad judgement that does not meet with corporate
    approval then it will stop along with the conference
    							bill
    ps. in reality I learned a long time ago you can't change the world so
    I do what I feel is right, and others can do as they feel. But when
    this conference is the medium I feel better safe than sorry. The world
    can trade,give,steal, buy until their hearts content, but leave this
    conference out of it. The proper advice has been given and it is to
    this end that conferences exsists. Any act that is even questionable
    shoud not be in this forum.