Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    I'd stay away from the 2091A if I wewe you. While it works ok it lacks
    in many areas.(I doulbt the one you would get would have the newest
    proms). It only allows for two meg of memory, and then your looking for 
    a memory board. If a dealer is pushing them it is most likely because
    he is stuck with them. My local dealer has them for $450.00 with drive
    all the time.(brand new) This is because he replaces them with the GVP
    controller. I feel it has better software, scsi controll, and also
    offers 8 meg of ram capability.
    								bill

    Hi,
     re -.1
    
    I'm not too bothered about on-board memory as I already have a
    MicroBotics 8-UP! card..... What I do want is a fast, autobooting
    controller, preferably with room on board for a Quantum drive.....
    
    Dave
    

    Hi dave,
     I've got an IVS Trumpcard with an Seagate ST-251n-1 46.6meg Harddisk &
     an MicroBotics 8-UP! card. They both work good. I had no problem with
     my Harddisk & it's controller for over 18 month (since I got it). The
     only minor problem, I start to find, is as I intend to add an second
     Harddisk, it should be internal. (Their is no external scsi plug.)
     (This maybe has also changed since I got my card.)
     I don't know if it accepts direct scsi messages/calls ?
     
    
    					Erik (near Southhampton).

I have the 2091, with a Quantum 40Meg, and I've had no problems whatsoever to
date. I considered the GVP+2000 instead of a 2000HD when I traded up, but at the
time GVP didn't have their 8Meg+controller board. Also, as I recall, the GVP
doesn't do either SCSI or ST-type drives, I can't recall which, and I wanted to
preserve as many options as possible. (I'm sure GVP enthusiasts will join in
to set the record straight!)

If you're buying for a 2000 or 500, and are also considering an eventual
accelerator board, I wouldn't consider the memory option important myself. (It's
obviously a moot point for you, anyway.) I figure I'd rather have the 32-bit
memory I can use with an accelerator board than more 16-bit memory.

O' course, what *I* have to find is a good accelerator without a built-in
controller...

Bob

    GVP is SCSI only. I never considered this a problem because of the
    wealth of SCSI devices available. I know you can plug in a 44 meg
    removable into the 25pin external connector with no problems. I helped
    a guy with the GVP card upgrade to a 33mhz GVP 030 card. He had 4 meg
    of 32 bit ram. What I did was I used his old gvp to mount the drive,
    and had the drive connected to the 030 card. When we booted it showed
    a total of 13 meg of memory. This way he kept his initial investment,
    and had a place to mount his drive(all others were in use), plus he had
    another scsi card.There are worse fates than having two scsi
    controllers, both functional). Of course when he gets the mony he will
    replace some 16bit with 32bit ram.
    							bill 

    
    
    	I also suggest GVP. The newer version "II" line are fast, they
    support all SCSI devices ( disk, removable disk, CDROM, tape, and 
    SCSI direct calls ). They sell cards with memory expansion or the
    hardcard version that you can mount a disk on.
    
    		Steve P.
    

    Hi,
    
    The GVP sounds nice, but does anyone know of a UK distributor???
    
    dave.
    

    
    
    	I'm suprised that Diamond just offered you the IVS board as They
    also stock what is supposed to be the fastest SCSI controller The 
    Nexus...I've just got one on for testing....Its very fast...using
    Diskspeed 3.1...
    
    	If you speak to Keith at the Bristol Branch (of Diamond) he just might 
    give you a good deal (say I sent you...)
    
    	The Nexus also supports SCSI tape devices... and with there
    Flashback (harddisk backup utility) even works with my TEAC Tape drive
    Also the card supports upto 8 megs of memory...(upto 4  1 meg SIMMs and 
    upto 2 4-megs SIMMS) 
    
    
    	Steve Goldstein

Re: .0

I have an A2091 and have been quite pleased with it.  There is a problem
with some versions of its ROM that cause it to not work with drive
reselection.  However, Commodore has just begun shipping replacement
ROMS to the dealers, and the ROMs will be replaced for free under warranty.

From experience, 4 of us here have picked the ICD SCSI controllers as the most
compatable with all devices. We have them working with tape drives (even TK50)
all variations of hard drives and CD Rom drives.

In the past 6 months we have tried, GVP Series II, 2090a(forgetit), 
Advantage. The GVP has problems with devices that do the scsi disconnect
function, and also the developer of the CD-FS file system (so I heard from
hypermedia concepts) says GVP does give them some problems.  The 2091 seems
to as compatable with most devices but has other known problems (fixed as noted
with new roms).

The ICD controllers are real inexpensive ($129.00) from creative.

They Diskspeed to as fast or faster than GVP. The driver seems real solid
you can even power fail devices, (ie tape drives) with no GURUs or such and
the SCSI direct cmds work 100%.

Steve.

    Hi there,
    
    Thanks to all for the info. What I propose to do after reading this and
    other notes is to purchase the following:
    
    ... Syquest 44Mb Removable Hard Drive.
    ... Quantum 52Mb Hard Disk (as system disk).
    ... ICD or Trumpcard Controller.
    
    I do have a couple of questions outstanding if some kind guru out there
    could help.
    
    (1)	I plan to buy these from the States - a company called APS. I can
    see no reason why the drives will not work here in the UK. Is this
    true?
    
    (2)	If I buy the controller from the states, will I have problems with
    it here in the UK?
    
    (3) I've been reading about SCSI termination; will I have any problems
    configuring the drives to co-exist with each other? - ie. can the unit
    select jumpers be easily changed and do I need to add/remove any
    termination?
    
    Many thanks for the help. 
    
    Dave..
    

    
    
    (1) Disk drives mounted inside the Amiga will use the Amiga's power
    	so they will work. Expansion boxes need to be compatible with
    	U.K. power.
    
    (2) The disk controller will run without changes.
    
    (3) As for IDs and termination ...
    
    	Set the Quantum to ID 0	 ( should be default )
    	Set the Syquest to ID 1  ( should come set to 0 )
    
    	You need to get a two ( or more ) drive cable. The controller will
    	come with a single drive cable.
    
    	I assume you have Amiga 2000 and plan to mount the Quantum on the
        Controller card	and the Syquest in the 5 1/4 bay ( below the
        floppies ).
    
    	In this case, run the SCSI cable from the controller to the Quantum
    	then to the syquest drive. Remove the termination from the Quantum.
    
    	If I guessed wrong, post your system type and where you plan to
    	mount the drives.
    
    			Steve P.
    
    			

    Hi there,
    
    Steve, you hit the nail on the proverbial head in -.1 This is exactly
    how I planned to set up the drives. When I get my machine (next week) I
    shall set up as you advised and see what happens.
    
    I just ordered a Syquest 44Mb drive and a Quantum 52Mb drive from APS
    in the States. Total cost was $766 (Syquest $399, Quantum $249 and $98
    shipping to here in the UK) or 450 pounds Sterling. Lowest prices in
    the UK are Quantum 230 pounds and Syquest 330 pounds WITHOUT cartridge.
    I now see why you lot Stateside have soooo much hardware! With
    cartridges costing 70 pounds, I've saved 180 pounds!
    
    APS have (so far) been a gem to deal with. Thet quoted a shipping time
    of 7 - 10 working days.
    
    Thanks to all who've helped out so far...

    Re: .13
    
�    I just ordered a Syquest 44Mb drive and a Quantum 52Mb drive from APS
�    in the States. Total cost was $766 (Syquest $399, Quantum $249 and $98
�    shipping to here in the UK) or 450 pounds Sterling. Lowest prices in

    Don't you still have to pay VAT (or something to that effect?) or does
    that price include those charges already?

    Re: .12

    Regarding the setting of Quantum to SCSI address (node?) 0 and the
    Syquest to address 1: Wouldn't you want the boot disk to be at a higher
    address than the removable? I was under the assumption that the higher
    the address, the higher the priority (not boot priority, mind you).
    Is it because the Syquest is slower or does it really make any
    significant performance impact with just two devices anyway? Just
    curious...

    Pete

    Hi,
    
    re -.1
    
    After explaining to the guy what VAT was, he said that that didn't need
    to be paid and that shipping included everything!
    
    Dave.
    

    re .14
    
    	Why harddisk at 0 and syquest at 1 ?
    
    	Bottom line, The quantum and syquest can't generate enough data
    to make a difference. I set the Quantum to 0 because some old programs
    have DH0: hardwired into the file requestor and installation software
    often makes SCSI 0 DH0: . Also most boot Roms look for bootable drives
    in order 0->6.
    
    		Steve P.
    

    
    	YOU will have to Pay Import duty at approx 5% and the on top you
    still have to Pay VAT (there is no way round it) at 17.5% 
    
    I've already inmported some devices and this is what happened to me...
    
    
    	Steve G

    OK it's a change, from the original topic, but it's the only topic in
    this conference with the name TRUMPCARD in it's title.
    
    	I've got an IVS Trumpcard with an ST251N (46MB) drive. The drive is
    	DH0. Now I just bought an ST277N (65MB) and I want to add it to my
    	configuration. The problem is the cable. There seems to be no scsi
    	terminator on the DH0 (ST251N). What kind of cable will I need. Has
    	anybody made such a cable, what are the specs. I will place the new
    	drive in the 5� place, so I could still later add an 3� drive in
    	the DF1 slot. Should I make a cable with a space for Dh0 Dh1 dh2
    	and an socket in the back of the computer, for futher use. Should all
    	the sockets be DB25 ? and for the last could I use an IEEE (Champ) 
    	with an terminator (no not the film ;-).
    
    							Erik

    If your 50 pin cable is long enough, just crimp an extra connector in
    the proper location.  Leave the terminating resistors in the two end
    devices (drive or controller) and change the drive ID so there is no
    address conflict.
    
    Jean
    

    That's a bit difficult, because the cable now, is 2 inch long, on the
    controller card.

    I wanted something like this : (Any comments ?)


    Type of socket
    --------------
    
	    	Controller	socket	socket socket socket
    		    card	   1       2      3      4
    		------------------------------------------
    		     db25	db25	db25	db25	IEEE
    							terminator
    		
    Socket description :
    --------------------
    		socket 1 : On controller card.
    		socket 2 : in 5� bay.
    		socket 3 : in 3� DF1 bay.
    		socket 4 : on a plate at the back of the cards.

    Cable length :
    --------------
    socket 0 > 1	: 2 inch
    socket 1 > 2	: 15 inch
    socket 2 > 3	: 6 inch
    socket 3 > 4	: 15 inch

    re .20
    
    	The 50 pin ribbon cable connectors are not DB25 connectors. I think
    you want 50 pin ribbon not DB25 connectors. I would also give yourself
    a little more room and place the connectors a little farther apart.
    maybe more like 12 inch apart.
    
    		STeve P.
    

    I'm not sure about the term DB25, it's a 50 pin cable, but the socket
    has 2*25 pins (Bump sockets).
    
    							Erik

    Hi,
    
    Isn't the DB25 one of those 25 pin d-type connectors that are used for
    RS232 connections??? (also used on Mac SCSI connectors).
    
    Dave.
    

I was under the impression that the D in DBxx stood for the fact that the con-
nector is basically D-shaped.

    -----------------------------
     \                          /
      --------------------------

and had little to do with the pin-out.  There are DB25's, DB36's, DB9's, etc.

Moreover, in the D-type connectors, I have seen (and have in front of me) a 
BC56H cable which has D connectors on both ends.  However, the pin-out on one
end matches the dual 25-pin (50 pin total) ribbon cable connector and the other
end matches the Digital SCSI connectors on the back of the expansion boxes.  

Neither of these is a DB25 connector which is the old standard plug for RS232
connections.

If you have a DB25 SCSI, it is likely not to have sufficient wiring to translate
to a 50 pin configuration.  As was stated elsewhere, the 25 wire configuration 
is the 50 wire configuration with the intervening grounds removed.  Is there a 
25 to 50 wire converter around?

    Hi,
    
    Erik, if you have a Trumpcard then you should not have a problem.
    
    The Seagate drives expect full 50pin SCSI cabling as does the
    Trumpcard. If you were to try and fit a connector to the cable to allow
    drives external to the Amiga, I don't know how this would affect the
    SCSI bus (I believe there is a maximum length on the SCSI cable - is
    this true?)
    
    Dave.
    

is the number I remember from Spirit Tech support people as the maximum SCSI 
length (50 wire).

    
    	If you look at the specs. you will find that the 50-way connector 
    only need 25 pins all the top row (odd no) are connected together to
    ground....
    
    	DB25 is a D-Type connector with 25-pins...(and you can have other
    as mensioned before...One of the monitors I've seen had what look like
    a 15-way D-Type connector but hads an extra row added)
    
    	Steve G
    

    
    	re SCSI length ...
    
    	SCSI is limited to 6 Meters total bus length. Tests at DEC show
    you should keep the length to 3-4 Meters.
    
    
    		Steve P.
    

    I'm sorry I did use the term DB25, I meant an connector with a double
    range of 25 pin, straight on the 50 pin cable.
    
    How much energy does a hard drive need ? Why can't we use the smaller
    energy plugs inside the box (Like the ones for the floppy drive) ?
    If you link together two smaller ones ;-) does it give you the energy
    of a bigger one ?
    
    								Erik

    
    
    	re .29
    
    	The 4 pin power connector is standard. ST-506, SCSI, ESDI and
    others use this type of connector.
    
    	As for power, this varies from disk type to disk type. I have seen
    numbers in the 5-10 Watt range. Physical size of the drive has a effect
    but storage doesn't effect it much. Faster drives draw more power.
    
    		Steve P.
    

    About the Trumpcard. What is the latest Rom version ? I've got version
    1.3, but it came out in 1989. Where can I find a new rom version ? (in
    the UK). Does the new Rom version (if it exists) have direct scsi
    control ? What is the price ?
    
    				loads of question !! 
    
    								Erik

    Hi,
    
    re .-1 Erik, the rom version I got with my card is 4.6
    
    
    Well folks, thanks to all those who answered the base note. I have now
    invested my hard earned pennies in a completely new system. In the end
    I purchased an IVS Trumpcard with 52Mb Quantum drive... Total cost was 
    330 pounds... I went to Diamond Computers in Southampton; not the best
    service in the world (I recommend people think twice before going to
    this particular branch).
    
    Anyway, I fitted the IVS and Quantun into the A1500 and attempted to
    run the IVS software. The manual bears NO resemblance to the current
    version of software. Anyway, braving the technospeak, I plodded away
    only to discover that the hard drive was duff! Had it replaced by
    Diamond (Manchester) - far better service - and viola, it works. It is
    fast - very fast......
    
    Now all I have is a flicker fixer problem.......
    
    Cheers dave