Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Minimal tests run so far: Photon Paint, DigiPaint, PenPal, most of my
    old games (that don't require AmigaBASIC), SuperPlan all seem to run
    OK.  (See next note for Memory Caveats).
    
    

    You probably mean ProPage V1.3. V2.0 is current.

VLT works fine under 2.0.

Matt Dillon is doing most of his work on A3000s under 2.0 these days, so his
UUCP ought to work fine.

	<mike

Re: -.2

	Yes, I meant Pro Page 1.3 -- sorry

    I've found very little that doesn't work under 2.0 on the 3000.
    
    Older games such as:
    
    Paladin
    Star Wars
    Marble Madness
    
    They either don't work, or go too fast.  Some of my games probably do work 
    if I turn of the cache, or switch to 1.3, but I rarely care enough to
    try.  My current (and old) favorites work well.  (Things such as
    Hoyle's Solitaire, PGA Tour Golf, Jack Nicklaus Ultimate Golf, Star
    Control, Bane of the Cosmic Forge, Shanghai, and my current favorite
    in the freely distributable category, Megaball.)
    
    I found some things that don't work for me yet.  The commodities
    on FF 497, require a version of Kickstart that's higher than the one
    I'm running.  
    
    What is the current version number of release 2.0x that is available to 
    non-developers?
    
    -Gary

    
    Latest Version of 2.0 that I've seen is V37 kickstart/workbench.
    A guy in our user group (Nic Wilson) is ordering an '040 card for his
    3000 that will require kickstart in ROM so Dave Hynie in commodore will
    be shipping him a pre-release ROM. (Is this hope for us
    non-developers?)
    
    RE: Older Games not working.
    
    Yeah - but you can most of the time fix the problem by booting up
    kickstart 1.2 by using the program SETCPU (on fish#400?). You will also
    require the A1000 1.2 kickstart disk but if you're like me and bought
    your're A500 years ago you would of been giving that with your machine.
    
    I have a couple of files that relate to bugs/features found in 2.0 and
    the 3000 and a file on how to get particule games to run. I'll upload
    to TAPE:: tonight.
    
    Shaun
    

    Don (@ Memory Location) claims that Commodore is now shipping all new
    A3000's with KS 2.0 in ROM.  Still no word on availability of ROMs to
    retrofit older machines.

    I just received my 3000 last week (it arrived from Commodore the same
    hour) and it does NOT have KS 2.0 in ROM.
    
    Re: software that does/does not work:  Photon Paint freezes after a few
    seconds of operating in 2.0 (it seems to run fine in 1.3.3).  SID 1.06(?)
    works but hangs significantly at the end of some its directory
    searches.  Its unfreezing apparently coincides with a disk read or
    write.   Could this be related to file caching?

I was talking to Randall Jessup at Commodore yesterday. 

I asked about 2.0 and he said "let's put it this way - masked ROM's now exist,
that should give you some indication"

Shouldn't be long now...

john

    
    
    Copy TAPE::AMIGA:[UPLOAD]3000info.lzh for more info on the 3000 re:
    software problems and general hints and tips.
    
    Shaun.
    

    Happened to be using SuperPlan a short while ago and discovered
    something interesting:  The last pulldown is AUTO (what it does, I
    don't remember).  If you wander into that pulldown, it crashes the
    A3000.  You don't even have to release MB2.  If it evers appears,
    AmigaDOS 2.x will crash and burn, period.  All other menus seem to work
    perfectly.  Haven't tested it on 1.3.3.
    

	Hi,

	I'm planning an upgrade of my configuration and at the moment I
	don't know if I should go for a combined 68000/68020 system
	or for an A3000(T).

	As I've figured out that the important apps I own are running on
	the A3000 (BTW: I suppose DigiView 4.0 is running).

	But I have a number of simulation/games I don't want to loose.
	Can you comment on the following list please.

	F16 Falcon
	F16 Mission Disk II
	F19 Stealth Fighter
	Railroad Tycoon
	M1 Tank Platoon
	TV Sports:Football
	Buck Rogers
	Pool of Radiance
	Indy 500
	Team Suzuki
	Populous
	PowerMonger
	Tower Of Babel
	Monkey Island
	Swords of Twilight

	That's it mainly, of course I have other games, but if I loose
	these it doesn't matter that much.

	Thanx 
	hELMUT

Re: .12

Kiss Populous goodbye.  It doesn't work on my 68020: I have to boot the
68000 to use it.

On the other hand, PowerMonger claims to work with the new processors.
I have a copy, but have been to busy to try playing with it yet.  (I think
I'm afraid I'll spend as much time on it as I did Populous!)

    
    Here are my Amiga 3000 WB 2.0 findings:
    
    
    After testing and correcting my startup sequence; the following
    programs
    have been removed because they cause random or immediate gurus.
    
        FastMemFirst    (no longer needed?_
        VBR
    
        The most common failure was after my system was up, performing a
        VERSION option from the Workbenh pulldown menu would guru or memalert.
        
    
    
    The following Programs do not work on my 3000 WB 2.0 system:
    
        DROPSHADOW (leaves shadows behind)
        Lemmings
        Munsters   (leaves slurrs on the screen)
        StarWars
        King of Prussia
        
        
    
    The following programs appear obsoleted on my system:
    
        POWERSNAP (and other such programs)
        movessp   (does nothing on my system)
        FF        (does nothing; caused random gurus)
        
    
    The following DO Work:
    
        DPaintIII
        ProPage
        VIP
        Cinemaware games
        ClockDJ
        SEDT
        VLT
        WordPerfect
        VirusX
        MemGuard
        MyMenu
        UUCP 1.06D
        Shanghai
        BattleChess
        F18
    
    
    Other strangeness:
        
        It was also difficult to place MYMENU and MEMGUARD in my
        startup-sequence in such a way as to prevent gurus.
        
        MYMENU has to be run twice in a row to cause the menu to appear;
        but it seems to work otherwise
        
        I was forced to place a "wait 1 sec" after my LOADWB or "LOADWB
        delay" in my startup-sequence to prevent a guru.
        
        I have to make a single startup-sequence file. When I attempted to
        use the "user-startup" file method instead; everything executed OK but
        I would be left without a Workbench screen (even though there's a
        LOADWB in the startup-sequence).
        
        MyMenu doesn't correctly handle non-Topaz8 fonts on the WB screen.
        
        GOMF reports that my system is a 68020 instead of 68030
        
        Nothing I do seems to be able to make the Shell open up with
        different dimensions than the defaults. The NewShell CLI command and
        the icon WINDOW= commands fail to produce a large window.
    
    
    Keith Barrett
    PAMSRC::BARRETT
        
    

    
    I discovered that the "VERSION"/random guru problem was due to the
    RUNBACK program I was using to start tasks. I have switched to the
    newer RUNBACK that uses the NULL: device and the startup seems rock
    solid now. Does anyone know if FASTMEMFIRST or VBR are worth using on a
    3000 WB2.0 system? SYSINFO reports everything is running in SLOWRAM.
    
    Also, "KILLREQ" (kill requesters) no longer seems to function. It
    doesn't cause a problem, but the requesters still appear. Gotta come
    up with a replacement for this somehow.
    
    
    Keith Barrett
    PAMSRC::BARRETT

    
    ls (unix-like directory lister) was crashing my system, so it's
    history. I alias'ed "LS" to run DIR for now.
    
    Also, MYMENU does not work correctly with "WB" type entries. The "CLI"
    ones work perfectly, so make all your entries CLI.

You shouldn't need runback at all. run >nil: <nil: should do the same thing
(unless that's a feature of the as-yet-unreleased shell I'm running).

As for Snap (etc.), I still use that. The system-provided snap only works
for things that use console.device in the right way. There are a large number
of things that don't use it at all. Plus, you can't snap graphics with the
system-provided tools.

	<mike

RE: .14

>        FastMemFirst    (no longer needed?_

	No longer needed.

>        DROPSHADOW

	I use the ones built into 2.0.

>	Lemmings

	The demo works for me, a number of people have told me the game does
	work under 2.0!

>	POWERSNAP

	Like Mike said the 2.0 feature only uses console windows.  SNAP 1.62
	recently came over usenet.

>       I have to make a single startup-sequence file. When I attempted to
>       use the "user-startup" file method instead; everything executed OK but
>       I would be left without a Workbench screen (even though there's a
>       LOADWB in the startup-sequence).

	Things should work from user-startup I've got a lot of stuff in mine
	and don't have any problems.  I've also placed a number of things in
	the sys:wbstartup drawer and found that to work with most anything that
	can be started from an icon.  In general I always add a DONOTWAIT=1 to
	the tool types to keep the startup moving.

>	MyMenu doesn't correctly handle non-Topaz8 fonts on the WB screen.

	There is a 2.0 mechanism for extending the workbench menus.  There are
	a few programs already available to do this.  Toolmanager is one of
	these.  Version 1.3 should be on TAPE:: somewhere.

>       Nothing I do seems to be able to make the Shell open up with
>       different dimensions than the defaults. The NewShell CLI command and
>       the icon WINDOW= commands fail to produce a large window.

	Haven't seen this one, but I use WShell.

re: .16

>    ls (unix-like directory lister) was crashing my system, so it's
>    history. I alias'ed "LS" to run DIR for now.
    
	One of the ls's floating around had some significant bugs.  There
	is an ls4.1 in tape::amiga:[upload].  This one works very well.

regards,

steve

>>        DROPSHADOW

>	I use the ones built into 2.0.

    Huh?  I believe .14 is refering to the tool written by jimm to put
    shadows underneath the open windows on the workbench.  As far as I
    know, my version of 2.0x doesn't have that in the prefs dir.  (I always
    thought it looked cool, but running on the poor 68000, it slowed WB to
    a crawl.  It adds another bitplane to the WB screen.)  I tried it on
    the 3000, but as .14 said, it leaves bits of shadow behind.  Evidently
    1.3(and below) forced a refresh after a window was moved.  2.0 doesn't. 
    It runs at an acceptable rate on the 3000, and since a 3 plane WB is
    condoned under 2.0, it should be relatively easy to do.  (I had a look
    at jimm's code, and it was well beyond me, but others of you may be up
    to it.  I think it was on FF87.)
    
>>	Lemmings

>	The demo works for me, a number of people have told me the game does
>	work under 2.0!
    
    The actual game works for me.  
    
    
    -Gary

>>>        DROPSHADOW

>>	I use the ones built into 2.0.

>    Huh?  I believe .14 is refering to the tool written by jimm to put
>    shadows underneath the open windows on the workbench.  As far as I

Obviously you're right.  I was confusing DROPSHADOW with DROPCLOTH.

Thanks for the correction.

-steve

I sent mail to Jim Macraz (jimm) one time asking about dropshadow. I was trying
to optimize it and comp[ile it under Lattice C with 68030 and optimization 
turned on with the hopes of making it faster. It was kinda Manx-ized at the 
time.

Jim said he was working on a new version and he was thinking of making it a
comercial product. Not sure where he is with it now...

john

    Re: -1
    
    Actually, the problem with dropshadow may have to do with 8 or 16
    color workbench rather than 2.0 - I remember having this problem
    with my 2000 in that mode as well. I haven't tried it under a 4 color
    2.0 setup yet.
    
    
    Found an obsure one. ClockDJ will "lock" the menu bar (i.e. act as if
    you are pressing the right mouse button) if you QUICKLY press
    (without holding down) the right, then middle, then left mouse buttons.
    Pressing the right button again cleans it up -- harmless.
    
    
    Anyone know how to make an existing application use the new 2.0 TOOLS
    menu? This would obsolete MYMENU.
    
    
    Keith
    

re .-1:

DropShadow uses some undocumented areas of intuition to make it work. I'm not
surprised it breaks under 2.0.

john

The Tools Menu is used by running applictions to recieve intuition messages.
The application tells WB to put up a menu item, and it then gets told about
it when the user selects that menu. AppIcons and AppWindows are similar to
AppItems (the menu toys), except the application gets told when a user drops
an icon on them, or when an AppIcon is selected.

The standard way of dealing with� AppItems is an application that launches
other applications when a Tools menu item is selected. I use a
non-distributable tool called ToolMenu that uses the icon ToolType
entries to put entries into the menu. AddMenu is on Fish Disk 501; I haven't
looked at that yet. I just got a copy of ToolManager 1.4, and it appears
to be the most comprehensive "launch other applications" type program
yet, including the ability to put up appicons to drop icons on (i.e. - a
printer icon and a trashcan icon being obvious applications), hot keys for
launching applications, plus an appwindow for adding AppItem entries.

	<mike

    I just uploaded TOOLMANAGER1_4.LZH, POST16B.LZH and some other recent
    items from the AB20 archives to TAPE::AMIGA:[UPLOAD]...

    Re: -.1
    
    Thanks. ToolManager works great and renders MyMENU obsolete (and its
    bugs). I did have a problem though; putting it in the WBstartup didn't
    start it on bootup, I was forced to use the RUN >NIL: method in my
    startup-sequence. I've noticed this behavior in other programs also.
    
    You can drop BEEPIT also (changes your bell "flash" to a tone) - it will
    caused gurus. I was forced to switch to PLAYBEEP which plays a sound
    sample instead. There may be some better or revised utilities in the
    latter Fish disks, I haven't looked.
    
    Keith

Amother one:

The new NOCLICK for 2.0 that's been uploaded seems to work fine on a
reboot that involves the (re)loading of Kickstart (such as during power-up or
using the KickReBoot program), but if I reboot
by using the Amiga-Amiga keys, my system hangs when the NoCLick program
is invoked.

Strange

Keith Barrett
PAMSRC::BARRETT

    I have the following software for which none of it works with 2.0 but
    if I run under 1.3 I get the following:
    
    Name                   Made by       Description of status
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tower Toppler          US Gold       Entire Openning Screen Flashes (BAD)
    Little Computer People Activision    Loads, no person/dog, all else works,
                                           sound and print ok
    Winnie the Pooh        Sierra        Runs OK
    Puppy Love             Tom Snyder    Loads, dog & animation ok, no cursor
                             Productions           appears
    Bomb Busters           Ready Soft    Runs OK
    Mindshadow             Activision    Runs OK
    Hacker                 Activision    Gurus (BAD)
    Borrowed Time          Activision    Runs OK
    Bubble Bobble          Taito         Plays, but stops whenever suprisingly
    Marble Madness         Electronic    Gurus (BAD)
                             Arts
    Solitaire Royale       Spectrun      Gurus (BAD)
                             Holobyte
    Donald Duck's          Sierra        Gurus sometimes (BAD)
       Playground
    Read & Rhyme           Unicorn       Gurus (BAD)
    Black Cauldron         Sierra        Disk Unreadable (told to use disk
                                                        doctor)
    Reach for the Stars    Strategic     Starts the tutorial and hangs, did
                            Studies Group         not try game
                                          
    
    
    
    Any help on getting these to run would be greatly appreciated.  I have
    just pulled the info previously placed in the note and will try the 
    setcpu stuff soon (I hope).
    
    Yours truly,
    Gail
                             

    Re .28:
    
    What's your CHIP/Fast RAM configuration?  Some games refuse to work
    (under either WorkBench release) on systems that have ONLY CHIP RAM.

I had a copy of Little Computer People. When trying to run it on
my A500 I had to use NOFASTMEM prior to running it, otherwise
I would not see the person or the dog.

Mike

RE: Note 4864.6
    GIDDAY::MORAN                                        20 lines   1-JUL-1991 23:36
                                -< Try SETCPU. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>>  RE: Older Games not working.
    
>>  Yeah - but you can most of the time fix the problem by booting up
>>  kickstart 1.2 by using the program SETCPU (on fish#400?). You will also
>>  require the A1000 1.2 kickstart disk but if you're like me and bought
>>  your're A500 years ago you would of been giving that with your machine.

    I pulled the SetCPU file from Fish#400 and followed the instructions
    provided by the person who described his finding on Marble Madness in
    the hint and tips from the LZH file.  When I execute the command
         >setcpu kickrom df0:
    I do get the kickstart hand, but then when that goes my brief pause is
    indefinate and I have to power off the machine.  I never get the
    workbench hand.  What is going on?  I followed the directions.  I
    loaded SetCpu in my C: directory on the 2.0 system disk and run the
    command from shell.
    
    Thanks for any help on this one.
    Gail

    RE: 29
    
    My available memory is as follows;
    
                   Avail                Max
    --------------------------------------------------
    Chip          2014504              2096128
    Fast          3336800              3670016
    Total         5351304              5766144
    
    This is 2M chip and 4M fast (at least that is what I paid for.... is it
    right or should it read over 6000000 for total?).
    
    It is a 3000 Amiga with 16MZ.
    
    
    Gail

RE: .30
    
    
>>    I had a copy of Little Computer People. When trying to run it on
>>    my A500 I had to use NOFASTMEM prior to running it, otherwise
>>    I would not see the person or the dog.


    How do you set this up?  I have tried the following:
    
    1) entering NOFASTMEM from the shell hangs the system
    2) resetting the system icon for NOFASTMEM and then loading Little
    Computer People (LCP) brings up an icon and LCP will not run from an
    icon.
    3) resetting the system icon for NOFASTMEM and then rebooting to insert
    the LCP disk shows nobody home in the game (invisible characters -
    NOFASTMEM off does not hold with reboot).
    
    Well,..... what do I do now?
    
    Gail

    Re .32:
    
>   My available memory is as follows;
>   
>                  Avail                Max
>   --------------------------------------------------
>   Chip          2014504              2096128
>   Fast          3336800              3670016
>   Total         5351304              5766144
    
    The above shows 2MB of CHIP RAM and 3.5MB of Fast RAM.  Perhaps the
    other 512KB of Fast RAM is being used to hold the KickStart 2.0 image
    (until Commodore releases the ROM-based version).

    Well,
    
    I don't have the game anymore so I'm working from memory.
    
    I seem to recall only having to click on the nofastmem icon in the
    appropriate draw on your boot floppy.
    
    I'm not sure if Little Computer people had an icon to click on. But I
    seem to recall starting up a shell, putting the Little Computer People disk
    into a floppy drive, change your default to that disk and then enter
    the command LCP which is what I seem to recall the executable was
    called.
    
    Regards
    	Mike
    

    CheckBook Accountant GURUs on the OPEN/SAVE options on my system
    (although I suspect it does work on other 3000's and this may be
    something specific to my configuration).
    
    AmiGantt also GURUs on my 3000 after invoking the resource bar graph,
    and the OPEN option doesn't work (under 2.0 or 1.3.3); perhaps for
    the same reasons that CA fails.
    

    I have a similar problem running DISCOVERY maths and spell. I don't see
    the escaped creatured or the fuel crystals. This makes life very
    difficult as they obviously see you!
    
    By booting the WB first and clicking on NOFASTMEM, the problem is
    solved. However, there must be a way that I can insert a command to
    switch the NOFASTMEM without doing it through the ICON.
    
    I have tried editing in the command NOFASTMEM into the disk startup
    file, but that hangs the system.
    
    Any ideas?
    
    
    Regards
    
    Steven

    Hi all,
    
    note .6 refers to SetCpu (on fish #400) curing problems with some of
    the older games.
    
    note .31 mentioned that it was tried and an unsuccessful boot occurs.
    
    Can someone help with this one (as my daughter is rather antsy to use
    some of her favorite games)?
    
    The execution of the command was also tried with the following:
       >SetCpu delay 40 kickrom df0:
    
    as delay time was specified as a possible problem on some machines. 
    However, this too did no good.  After inserting Kickstart the machine
    just goes into oblivia.
    
    Help... Help... Help,
    Gail

relocated from 5164 (thanks, Wes)
======================================================================

	DiskSpeed 3.1 from FF 329 won't run on my A2000 with 2.04.  
It won't even load from a copy on my hard disk or my back-up floppy,
something about not being able to run/load my tool (REALLY !).   I
checked the FF catalogue up to 550, no mention of a newer version. 

	Reg

Old versions DPaintIII has bugs that show up under 1.3 - typically flood
fills freezing. There was an interim release to fix that, but if I were
you I'd consider upgrading to DPIV instead of getting an upgrade.

	<mike

    re: .39
    
    The latest issue of the AmigaWorld Tech Ref magazine had the latest
    version of DiskSpeed on its disk (and an article by the author). I
    believe the version was V4.0
    
    John

    re .-1
    
    Yes, V4.0 is the latest.  Don't know if it works under 2.0 but it's
    on-line.
    
    EOT::AMIGA:[UPLOAD]DISKSPEED4.LZH
    
    
    

I tried this DISKSPEED 4.0 and it is totally differnet from the previous
verisons. What used to be a nice 3D 92.0 looking) window with fields for each
test result, seems to now be a cli that scrolls text messages.

I didn't get very far since it said something about not being able to accuratly
measure the CPU speed or something like that.

I use DiskSpeed for relative numbers when I make changes to my configuration.
I'll give 4.0 another shot when I get time, but I like 3.x much better...

john

	I might have been wrong about the previous version not 
working, somehow it (though not its icon) had got deleted in my
upgrade shuffle. 

re        <<< Note 4864.43 by STAR::GUINEAU "but what was the question?" >>>


> I didn't get very far since it said something about not being able to accuratly
> measure the CPU speed or something like that.

	<Tangential topic>

	It has the notion that disk speed is one thing and the 
overhead associated with handling a hard disk is another thing.  The 
first is mostly a function of rotational speed, head movement speed, 
etc.  The second depends more on how much attention (from the CPU) the
file system, interrupt handler, etc demands. Disk-speed tries to do
this by figuring out how much time the cpu has to spend away from its 
"real work"  in order to fuss with the disk.  To do this it must run
some  "real work"  to be called away from and in order to make a
measurement it needs to do a speed calibration on the cpu.  This is
one of the first things it does and it gives up if it finds the cpu to
be either too slow or too eratic, its perception of either can depend
largely on what else is being run.  I suspect that most of us tend to
run things like disk-speed in the background while doing other things.
If the other things are started first diskspeed will have problems
timing the cpu, if diskspeed is started first the other tasks will be
perceived as disk i/o overhead.  The only way to get reliable readings
from this thing is to run it "stand-alone", then it will show what 
percentage of the cpu is still available for computing while the disk 
is "very busy".

> I use DiskSpeed for relative numbers when I make changes to my configuration.
> I'll give 4.0 another shot when I get time, but I like 3.x much better...

	So did I, but I also like this idea of "impact on cpu 
	availability"


	Reg	{reads too much code}

    
    .re .43
    
    I'm with you John,  I think the user interface to Diskspeed 4.0 
    stinks.
    
    Frank
    

    re.33
    I had the same problem with BoulderDash.
    The (a) solution is to use PowerPacker and force the code to chip (one
    of the menu's more to the left).
    
    Hope this is any help.
    
    Ave Frank.
    
    P.s. long time since i heard of my little friend and his dog, please
    say hello from me!

re         <<< Note 4864.45 by VSSCAD::GATULIS "Frank Gatulis 226-6140" >>>
>                          -< Poor interface to 4.0! >-

    
>    .re .43
>    
>    I'm with you John,  I think the user interface to Diskspeed 4.0 
>    stinks.
    
>    Frank

	Well, the sources to both versions are included......  (-:, (-:    

	Reg

    After upgrading my A2000 to v2.04 this weekend; the process was smooth
    and v2.04 is GREAT!!!!  I found the only 'utility' that I used under
    v1.3 that doesn't work so far is "UPDATEDB', sometimes called 'FINDDB".
    The task guru'd after a little bit of disk i/o (frightening after
    all the work of installing v2.04) but I suspended it and all was well.
    FindDB(or find) is a utility that creates a database of all
    the files and directories on the drives of your choosing.  When you
    typed 'find' it searched the database for the location of the file or
    directory.  It had a companion utility called Updatedb that created and
    updated the database file.  Worked great with a cron entry.
    
    Since the above does not work, does anyone have a favorite "Find"
    utility?  I liked updatedb because it created a database of your
    current files and directories and searched the database rather than
    searching all your drives real-time to find the file.

	This works, but becomes useful only after some changes;

	Matt Dillon assigned default icons to the documents in the doc 
drawer of DICE, that was reasonable.  With the execute capability it 
seemed natural to go double clicking through and see if the documents 
had survived the upgrade.  Fine, they were there but obviously they
weren't executable.  By going into IconEd and defining a default 
project icon I was able to enter the default tool as DICE/bin/DME 
and  "save as..."  it to each of the document files.  This enables me 
to read the documents with an editor that I like to practice with  - - 
and of course I can correct Matt's spelling while I'm there (-:
or add usage comments of my own, successful code fragments, etc.

	R

Re:        <<< Note 4864.45 by VSSCAD::GATULIS "Frank Gatulis 226-6140" >>>
                          -< Poor interface to 4.0! >-

    
>    I'm with you John,  I think the user interface to Diskspeed 4.0 
>    stinks.

I wonder what the fuss about the 4.0 interface is all about. The docs
that came with my archive clearly state that this is an alpha release and
the interface is still under construction...     
As always, you get what you pay for... ;-)

Cheers,

<CB>

> I wonder what the fuss about the 4.0 interface is all about. The docs
> that came with my archive clearly state that this is an alpha release and
> the interface is still under construction...     
> Cheers,
> 
> <CB>
> 

*docs* ?  :-)

re        <<< Note 4864.51 by STAR::GUINEAU "but what was the question?" >>>
>                                   -< gasp! >-

>   *docs* ?  :-)

	Yup,    well, sort_of.

	If you got the  .lzh  from eot you got a README file, I think...

	Or maybe the beta test disclaimer is in the source listing,,,

	I forget, anyway its there somewhere....  and he says the documents
(the REAL documents) aren't ready yet, but they will be rather large when they
are ready.  So yes, you didn't get the final, but I'm pretty sure he included
a basic level of documentation and the beta test status somewhere.

	Reg

I know; "Standardize on the place to keep this stuff, so we know where to look."

I called the Central Cost Software folks about using Quarterback V4.0
under AmigaDOS 2.04.

Quarterback 4.0 does properly save and restore files under AmigaDOS 2.04.
The problem is that it fails to release the floppy drives upon exit.  So,
after running Quarterback you can not access the floppy drives unless you
reboot.

The upgrade from Quarterback 4.0 to Quarterback 4.3 is free, and the
instructions printed in the AmigaDOS 2.04 for getting an update to
Quarterback are correct (you mail them your original Quarterback disk).

Quarterback is upwards compatible.  New versions of the program can always
read archives written by old versions of the program.

The latest version of Quarterback does not properly support file links.
So, if you backup and restore a link, it will make a copy of the file
linked to rather than restore just a link to the file.

This problem will not be fixed until Quarterback V5, and Central Cost
was unwilling to make any predictions as to when V5 would be available.

    Well I fired up TV*TEXT Pro to create a title screen, did my work,
    saved the resultant screen, then quit.  To my surprise my workbench was
    hung!  TVT pro version 1.0 doesn't work with v2.04.
    

    I have had various errors with this. Th efirst thing I noticed was that
    you could not see the text in the boxs when you rendered a line of
    text. A quick review of the manual solved this. I know that if you
    put the TV*TEXT pro into sleep mode, you end up in a world of hurt.
    Funny how the mouse will allow you to select a window but nothing else
    after you exit. Too bad I like this program.
    							bill

    I called the ZumaGroup.  To get an update to TV*Text Professional send
    your original diskette, $10.00, and state that you want the update for
    ADOS version 2.0.
    
    	ZumaGroup
    	6733 N. Black Canyon Hwy
    	Phoenix, AZ   85015
    	602 246 4238
    
    mark

    
    Here is a problem I found using Pen Pal version 1.3.13:
    
    I was unable to use the keyboard cut and paste commands while in the
    database.  The menu commands work fine.  A call to Softwood revealed
    that string gadgets are handled differently in version 2 of the OS.  I
    guess Softwood didn't take this into account.  
    
    In order to use the cut and paste function within string gadgets (within
    the database):  First select the cell or row that you want to copy or
    cut, then press ralt ramiga-the cursor should disappear, then use
    amiga-x, or amiga-c to cut or copy to the clipboard.  To paste, select
    the cell or row, press ralt ramiga, then amiga-v.
    
    Yeah, I know, it is easier to use the menu...  They didn't mention an
    update but they are pretty good at sending unsolicited updates  ;)
    
    md
    

	AMOS  seems to not install under 2.04, though it still runs 
fine directly from the floppies (booted or clicked from WB).

	The first few lines of code in install.AMOS seem to spin on a
needed device status that I'm not willing to  "fake"  in case it just 
scribbles stuff anywhere/everywhere I don't want it.  Any helpers ?
Ed Doyle, you listening ??  (-:

	Reg

    Another way to install amos on a hard-drive is to manually pull the
    draw and icon over to the partition you wish to install it on.
    However if you put it in a drawer, you'll have to do a couple of
    assigns in your start up sequence to let Amos know where to find it's 
    Support files (ie: Amos_System: dh0:Languages/Amos_system, and do the 
    same for AMOS:).
    
    			Ed

Superbase crashes with WB2.04

    mark

    re -.1
    
    What version of SuperBase do you have?  Is it SuperBase Personal or
    SuperBase Professional?  I am running SuperBase 4, version 1.1 and it
    works just fine on 2.04.  I will try SuperBase Professional 3.1b
    tonight and see if it works on 2.04 but it was ok on my older revision
    of version 2.   BTW, I have 3000.
    
    Ken
    

>    What version of SuperBase do you have?  Is it SuperBase Personal or
>    SuperBase Professional?  

Superbase Personal V1.0 - i have never received a notice indicating that
a newer version was available.

Is this product still handled thru Precision, or in the lastest AmigaWorld
they indicate that Software Publishing now handles it??

    mark

PS I bought it in Canada. I'm not sure if the company that was handling it up
here is still in business...

    As of last July, Precision still handles it.  They have an office in
    Texas and if you want, I can post the address here.
    
    I don't have any experience with SuperBase Personal.  Considering your
    revision level, it is quite possible that an upgrade would be
    necessary.
    
    Ken
    

    As of December 1991, Oxxi is the repository of Superbase support.  The
    Publishing folks in Texas/UK said the Amiga market is dead end and sold
    all the Amiga Superbase products to Oxxi.  They are in Long Beach, CA,
    the area code is 310, that's all I know for now, except that they are
    pretty friendly folks.
    
    Clark

    Well I have 2.04 but not a 3000 but have a problem and figure this note
    is as close as anywhere.
    
    
    I have SAS/C 5.10a. it ran fine on WB 1.3 (so did my programs :-}). I
    have tried the same build procedures on the same sources and the
    results are 'different'.  first off the -dn compiler switch does not
    appear to work. second when going into CPR the sources are not there -
    only asm. third there appears to be some funny with variables declared
    int but appearing to be long or something. I have tried both the 1.3
    and 2.0 includes, and even booting off the 1.3 distribution disks but
    to no avail.
    
    I understand there is a 5.10b (at least) patch out and am hoping that
    this will a. fix my problems and b. it can be put on the net. 
    
    I have tried this on my 2000 and on a friends 3000 with the same
    problem.
    
    any ideas??
    regards
    kevin

>     int but appearing to be long or something. I have tried both the 1.3
>     and 2.0 includes, and even booting off the 1.3 distribution disks but
>     to no avail.


There is also a new AMIGA.LIB to link against for 2.0, were you using
that?

I have compiled several programs under 2.0 with both 1.3/2.0 includes and
lib and all worked fine.

john

    Thanks John,
    
    well I tried all the libs etc as suggested that but no luck.
    
    I also tried a quick 'hello world' to test it as well.
    
    main ()
    {
    int i ;
    long j = 2 ;
    	for ( i = 1 ; i < 10 ; i++ ){
    	    printf( "hello world %d %ld \n", i , j ) ;
    	}
    }
    
    this was compiled with the compiler switch of -d5. It ran but output was 
    	hello world 65536 179700
    	hello world 131072 179799
    	hello world 196608 179700
    	hello world 262144 179700..... etc
    
    and there were no symbols/source in CPR.
    
    SASCOPTIONS is a very bare one with no floating point , but the linker
    kept including lcm881.lib until I excluded it in the blink command.
    
    am running out of options...
    kevin

Don't forget the 2.0 includes that came with the sas kit.
tom

    re -.1 yes have done them as well.
    
    thanks
    kevin

I tried running Elvira under 2.04.  The sound works, but the video looks like 
a tv which has lost its horizontal hold.  I tried playing with the overscan 
preference, thinking that maybe it was trying to scan a wider screen with a 
narrower picture or something, but I didn't get it to work.

I actually was able to get out of the game safely by clicking where it looked 
like the appropriate buttoms might be, but as it is, it's unplayable.  (It 
worked fine on my '030 equipped 2000 under 1.3.)

Anybody get any farther?

Cheers,

Jim

 re .64
>    As of December 1991, Oxxi is the repository of Superbase support.  The
>    Publishing folks in Texas/UK said the Amiga market is dead end and sold
>    all the Amiga Superbase products to Oxxi.  They are in Long Beach, CA,
>    the area code is 310, that's all I know for now, except that they are
>    pretty friendly folks.
    
i called Oxxi @(310)436-2390. I finally got a reply back...he said that he had
never heard of the product and that he doubted whether they supported it...
do i call Software Publishing in TX, or Precision & work the other direction??

    mark

    
    re: .70
    
    I see the same symptom trying to run "POW", guess that't why it
    was only $4.95!  Anyone know why this happens?  The boys love
    shooting the guns, but they can't see what they're hitting.
    

 re .71
>i called Oxxi @(310)436-2390. I finally got a reply back...he said that he had
>never heard of the product and that he doubted whether they supported it...
>do i call Software Publishing in TX, or Precision & work the other direction??

I just read the latest AmigaWorld that states Precision->Software->Oxxi (as of
Nov 13). Sure wish Oxxi knew that...

Anyone got another number for Oxxi, or a contact in Oxxi that knows about Amiga.

    mark

    
    Mark,
    
    Try calling Oxxi at the following number.  I always use it and get put
    in touch with the right person for a particular product.
    
    213-427-1227  Oxxi/Ageis 
    
    good luck!
    Frank
    

>    Try calling Oxxi at the following number.  I always use it and get put
>    in touch with the right person for a particular product.
>    213-427-1227  Oxxi/Ageis 
    
    Thanx, got thru, ordered my upgrade...boy that was easy.

    mark

PS Not sure what that area code 310 number was?

    Sorry, OXXI's area code is 213, not 310.  We've had an area code change out here
    and I wrote down the wrong area code.
    Clark

    I received the Quantum 52LPS drive from Computability with some side
    rails, screw hardware and 50 wire cable.  No instructions.
    
    I opened the 3000 Case and mounted the drive to the right of the floppy
    drive.  When I rebooted it hung.  On careful examination of the drive's
    jumper set, I determined that it probably had the SCSI address set to 6
    (same as the existing drive).  When I changed the jumper to 5, it
    booted beautifully, HDToolBox repartitioned the drive and I formatted
    it (high-level, no low-level format was necessary).
    
    Wave bye-bye to my old ST277N clunker.
    
    Tony
    
    P.S., the address is set with a set of 3 jumpers marked A0, A1, and A2. 
    Apparently, each is jumpered to a binary one or left open for a binary
    zero.  Mine has A0 and A3 (binary 5) jumpered.
    
    

    For me  propage 2.0 and SAS/C are major tools. Neither are working -
    SAS/C I have had a previous note about. PP2.0 simply crashes regularly
    and it seems to be related to font caching. Whenever I pull in a
    previously ok PP file - even one saved minutes before, exit and back
    again - it would take the machine down in quite a spectacularly
    colourfull way... Other regular products that don't work are Dos-2-Dos
    - it corrupts disks,  - fix unknown. YFT (Family History) hangs and
    crashes intermittantly - fix due next month. Quarterback V4.2 I wasn't
    even trying because of prior notes here. QB Tools appeared to work but
    has hardly been used - I figure it is suspect.
    
    Well I got so )*&^&^%$#&^% off with the constant crashes from ProPage
    2.0 and SAS/C not generating runable code that I have gone back to V1.3
    of Amigados. 
    
    The first thing that was really noticable was how fast the screens come
    up (after 2.04). like 2 seconds instead of 12-15. After that was the
    product stability etc.
    
    Definitely miss some of the niceties of v2.04 but a usable system is
    far more practical to me.
    
    regards
    kevin

    re: -.1
    
    For those of you out there who don't think that SAS works no a 3000
    under 2.0, I have to say that you are incorrect. The version you should
    be using is SAS/C 5.10b, there is also a new codeprobe, CPR 5.10b to go
    with it. The last version of cpr works fine but the display gets a
    little funny if you are using a non 8 point font. CPR 5.10b fixes it so
    it works with whatever preferences font you pick. I don't know what
    version of 2.04 you have, but you should definitely go see a dealer and
    get the newest... I have quite honestly compiled a few hundred k of
    source code to create a few very solid programs. Except when my prgrams
    screwed with memory, SAS never ever crashed or got an enforcer or
    mungwall hit.
    
    The only two things that I have found that do not work under 2.04 are
    Battle of Britain by Lucas and BattleIsle by BlueByte. Also the old
    DiskMaster gives a few million enforcer hits (but it may do that under
    1.3 also; I don't run enforcer under 1.3). Oh yeah, and you need the
    updated wordperfect to run wp under 2.04.
    
    One final note, Quarterback works fine too. I have backed up and
    restored over 40 floppies within the last month. 
    
    Bob Pomeroy
    

    >For me  propage 2.0 and SAS/C are major tools. Neither are working -
    >SAS/C I have had a previous note about. PP2.0 simply crashes regularly
    >and it seems to be related to font caching. Whenever I pull in a
    
     I have SAS/C 5.10b but have not used it so can't comment but I can say
    that ProPage 2.1 DEFINATELY DOES work on 2.04.  I have used it
    extensively and have not had a single crash.  2.0 worked just fine
    also.  ProPage will give you a free upgrade to 2.1 I believe if you are
    a registered owner.
    
    >even trying because of prior notes here. QB Tools appeared to work but
    >has hardly been used - I figure it is suspect.
    
    QuarterBack 4.2 has several problems with AmigaDOS 2.x, one is that it
    will not release the floppy drives after accessing them.  This is a
    problem with QuarterBack NOT 2.x.  4.3 has been out since last June and
    takes care of all of the problems.  I use it all of the time.
    
    >The first thing that was really noticable was how fast the screens come
    >up (after 2.04). like 2 seconds instead of 12-15. After that was the
    >product stability etc.
    
    If all of your screens take 12 seconds or more to come up, something is
    wrong.  It takes 2.x no longer to open a screen than 1.3.  What you may
    be referring to is during the initial boot, after the WorkBench screen
    appears it takes a while before the WorkBench window appears.  It is
    loading WorkBench at this time which *does* take longer because of the
    added functionality.
    
    FWIW, I ran 1.3 and 2.0 partitions on the hard drive (before the 3000
    ROMS came out) due to many programs not wanting to work on 2.0 but
    since updating to 2.04, the incompatibility problems have been solved
    so I now run straight 2.04.  For the occasional old game that needs 1.3
    or 1.2, I use SetCPU to load a KickStart floppy for the older version.
    
    Ken
    

    Just chiming in with those who are supporting V2.04 as solid and
    working with several programs.  I have used QuarterBack V4.2 without
    problems but it should be noted QuarterBack V4.3 is a FREE UPGRADE. 
    Just mail the disk to CCS/New Horizons and you get V4.3 (V5.0 is due
    out this month or next).
    
    I don't have Lattice (Manx V5.2a works fine though as did V5.0e).  Nor
    do I have ProPage but even most of my games still work under V2.04. 
    Including a game that uses HAM (Pioneer Plague) and a non-standard
    bootblock (this one impressed me).  The only software I have run into
    that hasn't worked has been Gauntlet II and Garrison.
    
    George
    

    
    I received the SAS/C 5.10b update a short while ago and have only
    compiled a few hundred lines of code, but everything including CPR
    seems to be fine.  I was using the 2.0 includes.  Funny someone should
    mention the cpr/font business though, because I DID have to drop back
    to an 8 point font.  CPR ran fine with my default 11 point font, but
    the characters were cut off partially.
    
    Oh yes, this is 2.04 on an A3000/25.
    
    The only thing I use regularly that I know has a problem is CED Pro. If
    you run this in a window rather than its own screen and then hit the
    new 2.0 shrink gadget, it will crash the system.  I've applied all the
    patches I'm aware of to CED (2.12 I think).  I use CED in its own
    screen all the time so this isn't really a problem for me.
    
    -steve

    Re the last few - well al I can say is my system is playing up. I also
    took all the original vendor suplied disks to a friends place and we
    tried the products on his 3000 and same pronlems.
    
    until I have u[pdated s/w fromt he vendors that will definitely support
    2.04 I will be staying with 1.3 - regretably.
    
    kevin

Re: .80

>during the initial boot, after the WorkBench screen appears it takes a
>while before the WorkBench window appears.  It is loading WorkBench at
>this time which *does* take longer because of the added functionality.

It isn't really that it takes the system longer to open the window.  The
initial CLI window, which runs the startup-sequence, is opened by the system
using the new mode which keeps the window from appearing until the
window needs to do input or output.

The delay until you see the window is just the time it takes the Amiga
to get to the first command in the startup-sequence that actually outputs
to the window.

The Amiga opens the window in deferred mode so that it can have a chance
to read the screen preferences, and close and reopen the Workbench screen
if the preferences are non-standard.  If the CLI window was being displayed,
the screen could not be closed to set the new prefs.

Interestingly enough, if you boot off a floppy with a 1.3 boot block, the
initial CLI window is not opened in deferred mode.  While testing Kickstart
V2, Commodore discovered there were a lot of games that took over the machine
that depended on the initial CLI window opening immediately.  The naughty
games would use the initial window to take over the Workbench screen.  In
order to keep that hack working (for now), Commodore changed the standard
2.0 floppy boot block to set a flag that says its OK to defer opening the
initial window.  Old 1.3 boot blocks don't set the flag, and so get the
old behavior.

Commodore warns that they do not intend to support the above hack in the
next version of Kickstart.

    Gee, and I thought my QB 4.1 was doing just fine.
    
    Tony
    

    re .83
    
    Kevin,
    
    	What versins of everything do you have. That is which versions of
    Kickstart and Workbench are you running. There are huge differences
    between the orginally supplied 2.0 that came on a 3000 and the 2.0 that
    you can get now. I know that SAS works under 2.0 since SAS is the
    compiler that Commodore uses. Also, as a member of te developer and
    certified developer conferences on BIX I can tell you that I have heard
    no complaints in months (many months) about software incompatability.
    Basically any application that had a problem with 2.0 has either been
    upgraded, or a kludge/hack has been put in 2.0 to fix the problem.
    	The only software released nowadays that I don't expect to work on
    a 3000  under 2.0 is some stuff from Europe. Especially the Euro-Demos
    done by pirate/hacker groups. In general they are/were using 68000
    systems under 1.3 and were exploiting a number of unsupported
    "techniques" for making the Amiga do so many cool things so quickly.
    	As for software written by "real" developers, I can only say that
    Commodore makes it extremely easy to be 2.0 compatible. They (CATS)
    will always tell a person the "supported" way to do something that will
    work under future revs of the OS. There are ways to do things so that
    code will work on 68040s and have been for quite some time. If you ever
    have a problem with some software, call up the company and ask why and
    when they are going to send a copy that works since there is no excuse
    for incompatability anymore.
    
    Bob
    

    re -.1
    
    I bought the 2.04 upgrade when I was in the USA in November - am not
    sure of the versions as I am now running 1.3. From what I could see it 
    was the latest version that C= distributed to a zillion shops to 
    on-sell. The products I use (all legal and costing me real $$$) were
    what I believed to be V2 compatible. 
    
    I remember it was the same version as others were talking about here
    though.
    
    Thanks
    kevin

    
    
    Just so there isn't any question in anybody's minds, the versions of
    Kickstart and Workbench that constitute release 2.04 of the OS are:
    
    	Kickstart 37.175
    	Workbench 37.67
    
    bob