Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Biil,
    		Look in the Computer Shopper and you'll see how cheap the
    bare drive is - ~$350 for the drive and ~ $75 for the cart.  thats
    without case or power but that should only add <$100.
    
    Ken

    The syquest IS super!
    
    I have one installed in the 5�" bay, hooked up to a Hardframe.  I can
    "back up" 20Mb hard drive in about 5 minutes using diskmaster.
    
    Jean
    

    I could order an internal unit for less but I like the thought of the
    portability the external unit offers. You could order the seperate
    pieces, box with power supply, cables, and the drive then put it
    together with the end result yielding the same functionally, but I
    doubt that you would end up with the quality built product that I
    played with. I have seen many Cheaper alternatives to many devices that
    offered the same  functionality, but I wouldn't want them on my desk.
    I'd opt to spend the $125.00 more than the sum of the pieces for a unit
    that I'd be willing to live with over a period of time, that came plug
    in ready. I don't care for mail order in general, and I know what I'd
    be getting up front with this unit, I also know that I'd have support 
    getting it online if I needed it. Of course the alternative
    to the cheaper route is waiting until I can afford the unit I want.
    I'll probably go without before I'd bother to home brew one. Then again
    I'm the guy that has a mechanic do my tuneups(had 4 years trade school
    in auto mechanics.)
    	Regardless of all this the syquest is a nice product and would make
    a nice addittion.
    								bill

    The older GVP cards did not support removable devices so what ever
    route you choose if you opted for this type of media , be aware that
    this restriction is there. I can't speak for other controller makes.
    								bill
    ps. re .1 Thanks for the input, I don't want to give the impression
    that I don't appreciate advice, and it has merit for an internal
    installation, but I plan on loading a lot of stuff internal in the 
    future, so I liked the compact external product. I guess it could be
    called love at first sight.

    Bill,
    
    	Re -.? No offense taken.  Thats why I bought a Supra 4x4 with 30
    meg a few years ago instead of just the controller.  I know my GVP with
    V2.31 roms support it along with the WT150 tape( another useful
    device).
    Ken

    I bought one of those MAC packaged Sysquest drives for Christmas with
    the Advantage SCSI controller from ICD.  I was quite impressed with the
    speed.  I bought my second cartidge just a few weeks ago with the
    intention of dividing my stuff up between the two.  Unfortunately, my
    first cartridge went south on me about the same time.  It started
    getting lots of read/write errors, many that would halt the start-up
    sequence.  It would take two or three tries to get a successful boot.
    
    Whenever I ran Quarterback tools, it would find some, but not all the
    bad blocks and mark them.  I was running the Tools 2-3 times a day, but
    never finding bad blocks, yet continually getting read/write errors in
    programs.  I did a low-level reformat twice, then ran QB Tools which
    said there were no bad blocks, then immediately start getting
    read/write errors again.
    
    Anyway, I am now using my second cartidge and have retired my first. 
    Anyone know any way to stabilize a disk like that so that it is
    usuable?
    
    Terry
    

    
    I heard that Syquest came up with the 88 Meg version of removable disk
    cartridge !  Have'nt verify my information yet !
    
    	Jean-Denis
    

    ads for The 88 meg have been in the rags for awhile now. I like the
    thought of that kind of storage but I don't like the thought of one
    88meg partition. Gee I could get one of those,and then another to back
    it up, and then....................
    							bill 

    The partition does NOT have to be equal to the size of the cartrige. 
    Since the "disks" are removeable, the partitions must be the same for
    all you cartriges if you intend to swap often, on the other hand, if
    you reset each time you change the cartrige, the partition information
    is not taken into account.
    
    At present, I have three cartriges and all three are one partition.  I
    can change them anytime I want without a reboot.  So far the drive has
    performed flawlessly.  My main use is for archives (backups) storing
    large files (animations and pictures) and misc stuff (fred fish files).
    
    The only thing I see wrong with the Syquest is the ease of storing lots
    of stuff that is not backed up.  A better set-up would be a large HD
    (200+Mb) with a high speed tape backup.
    
    The may edition of MacWorld covers the Syquest, the Richoh and the
    Bernouilli drives with acceptable detail.
    
    Jean
    

I'll take the blame for you guys who get "Syquest" envy...
I am a longtime Mac user who just got an Amiga.  When I found
out that the SCSI on the Amiga supports the Mac hard drives,
I decided to get a GVP SCSI card for my A2000.

I bought it from System Eyes, but I also brought my Syquest in
so they could show me how to format the sucker.  Steve at System
Eyes really went bonkers over the unit and now he's selling them.

In the Mac community, Syquests are used like floppies by people
who trade PD software and such... they are definitely the
"standard".  So standard, in fact, that I have two of them so
I can copy them.  Also, I use the Syquest units to back up my
300mb external and 200mb internal drives.  I also have a Bernoulli
drive for the Mac, but Bernoulli cartridges never became a hit
like Syquests.

Incidentally, the 88mb Syquests ARE shipping... but they are
VERY costly.  They can read the older 44mb cartridges, but can't
write to them.  There's also a 128mb magneto optical cartridge
that's only 3-1/2" (fits in your shirt pocket) that's getting
popular in the Mac community.  I believe it's also available for
Digital systems.

    Hi there,
    
    
    Does anyone in the UK have current prices on these (44 and 88MB) drives
    and the media for them? Does anyone ship them in the UK? I was saving
    the bay for a cdrom drive, but these seem a better use for it.....
    
    Dave
    

    I don't know about the UK.  But I was just at the Computer Fest in
    Dayton, Ohio this weekend.  And one company was selling the Syquest
    internal for $325.  They also were selling a 200MB Seagate 3 1/2" SCSI
    drive for $625.  This company also deals in refurbished drives, they
    had a refirbed Rodime 105MB for $250.
    
    The person I talked with indicated that they buy used drives.  They
    will buy a dead drive for $1/MB.  I don't have there name and number
    here, but I will post it this evening.

    Hi,
    
    Are these drives noisy? Or are they whisper quiet (hope, hope).
    
    They are currently available as a bare drive sans cartridge for 330
    pounds ex. VAT.
    
    Dave
    

    Well mine arrived a few days ago. The only hassle I had was with the
    power lead. C= had crimped the 'middle' plug too close to the end one
    and the lead wouldn't reach both sockets (quantum and syquest). A
    little undo the plug and move it fixed that. I then spent an hour
    formatting the cartridges I got and away it went. 
    
    Impressions. Well if an identically formatted platter is inserted it
    doesn't automatically remount. Put the old one back in and all is ok. 
    Noise. similar to an RZ56 sitting beside me. say no more.
    speed diskspeed 3.1, best available was 345K/sec (do me).  
    
    impressed with the bits in the box - rails (for PC so no use) plenty
    of the right size screws (unlike the GVP!!! - now I can correctly mount
    that drive as well). a scsi cable with enough plugs. a PC utilities
    disk. docs the whole lot.
    
    only killer - it's only 42 mb not 44!
    
    excellent so far. I like it. suits me better than a disk/tape combo
    (well so far anyway). 
    
    regards kevin.

    Hi,
    
    Ok. I admit it. I don't know how noisy (quiet) an RZ56 is.....
    
    Dave
    

    mmm not the quietest.....
    
    Its a very chunky sound, relatively high pitched (probably centered on
    5kzh ish??)
     
    The fan on a 2000 does not drown it out :-}
    
    
    kevin
    

    I seem to have lost another cartridge on my Syqest.   When I use QB
    tools to find bad blocks, when it gets to 80 bad blocks, then suddenly
    I have 1000s of bad blocks.  It won't check the disk any more after
    that since it says there are 1000s of bad blocks and just skips over
    them.  Last night I said to recheck them all and when I got through my
    partition was gone.
    
    First the icon showed up on the workbench screen as DH1:NDOS and I
    couldn't access it.  I used my formating software that came with my ICD
    controller and renamed the partition (the software could still see it). 
    I still couldn't see it from the workbench or any other application.
    I renamed the partition again with the ICD software and everything went 
    away.  Now no icon comes up at all on the workbench screen.  Even the 
    ICD program can't see the parition any more.  
    
    Any ideas on how to recover from this.  I had backed up only two days 
    before, but I did a lot of things in those two days that I would hate
    to lose.
    
    Is there another program besides QB Tools that will let me map out bad 
    blocks?  QB Tools seems to be doing some strange things to the
    removable media.  I would like to try something else and see if it
    behaves the same way.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Terry
    

    I have a syquest connected to an A590 SCSI port. Its a supra external
    jobby. It works fine as SCSI unit #0 lun#0. The problem is it does not
    respond to the scsi switch. This works properly. When I connect it to
    the A3000 scsci port the internal a3000 drives jams up. On booting WB
    via floppy and using the HDtools only one drive the syquest is seen.
    Has anyone using dual drives had any terminator problems. I have a
    feeling that these are causing read errors at other than SCSi unit #0.
    
    Jim
    

    I have not had much success with terminating my A3000 properly.
    Contrary to what I've heard from memory location and what I've been
    told in this notesfile the one configuration which works for me is to
    not terminate the external device (tape drive normally, but I tried a
    hard drive as well).  I tried removing the terminators on the internal
    drive and then terminating the external device with no success
    whatsoever (wouldn't even boot).  According to several people this
    would be the proper thing to do.  All I can say is not terminating
    externally works for me.  I haven't attached more than one thing
    externally at a time though so who knows if that will continue to work.
    
    Oddly I also find that sometimes when I power up, it doesn't boot and I
    have to cold start it again.  I suspect this might be related to
    termination, but it is rare and seemingly harmless, so I decided to
    live with it.
    
    With the external drive terminated, the system hangs fairly often
    during heavy disk access (like during a backup to floppy or tape).
    
    I think my internal drive is unit #6 from the factory and I think the
    controller is at unit #7, so if the syquest is stuck at unit #0 that
    should be OK I would think.  I have the external tape drive as unit #0.
    
    -steve

A SCSI bus should be terminated at both *ends*. It should not have "T" 
connections coming off the bus more than about 2 inches. These rules work for
me. I also recall that termination power on the A3000 must be supplied by the
device for externally connected devices... My A3000 is perking along happily.

>    I think my internal drive is unit #6 from the factory and I think the
>    controller is at unit #7, so if the syquest is stuck at unit #0 that
>    should be OK I would think.  I have the external tape drive as unit #0.
 
Are you saying that both the drive and tape are at the same scsi address and
lun? I would expect this to be a problem, unless their presence on the bus is
mutually exclusive!

	-SES

    
    As I said those rules don't work on my machine.  I have no idea why
    not.  Does the TK50Z supply termination power?  I've tried more than
    one device externally (but not at the same time unfortunately), they
    work without termination and with termination they cause the system to
    hang occasionally.  Removing the termination on the internal drive so
    that the only termination was on the controller and on the external
    TK50Z caused the system to not even boot!
    
>>    I think my internal drive is unit #6 from the factory and I think the
>>    controller is at unit #7, so if the syquest is stuck at unit #0 that
>>    should be OK I would think.  I have the external tape drive as unit #0.
 
>Are you saying that both the drive and tape are at the same scsi address and
>lun? I would expect this to be a problem, unless their presence on the bus is
>mutually exclusive!
    
    I don't have a syquest, all I was saying was that as shipped, I hooked
    up an external device at unit 0 (the tape drive) and it works (almost :-)).
    
    -steve

Another thought...

Some A3000 systems were shipped with terminators on the motherboard. If you have
not checked this, perhaps this could be a source of trouble...

	-SES

    Heres a question re bootup etc and a syquest.
    
    I have my regular GVP and quantum set at lun0 and the syquest at lun2.
    If there is no cartridge in the syquest bootup is forever. I have set
    lun2 with the gvp prep program as the last lun. can I easily swap them
    rounds and have the ami boot off the quantum as lun2 with the syquest
    as a lower lun number. This was the last lun# will always be there and
    boot up will be heaps faster. 
    
    Can I boot off other that an LUN0???
    
    did that make sense???
    regards
    
    kevin
    

    
    
    	First, you are not setting the disk to "lun", your setting the
    SCSI ID. They are two very different things.
    
    	The slow boot is caused by the GVP controller waiting for the
    syquest to spin up. It doesn't matter what ID the syquest is at.
    The host checks all the devices and has a time-out for each one.
    If you never boot off the syquest you can set the last disk so
    the system doesn't see the syquest during boot and then just mount
    it in your startup-sequence.
    
    	The GVP controllers can boot off any device ID. Each device
    on the Amiga has a boot priority ( disks, floppy, ... ). The
    controller will boot of the lowest boot priority that has media
    in it. This is why every device is checked during boot. You should
    be careful with boot priority. You can make your hard disk boot
    before floppies and cause real trouble.
    
    
    			Steve P.
    

>  The controller will boot of the lowest boot priority that has media in it.

Ah, em, that is the highest priority... 

Kevin, you might also try swapping the scsi addresses so the quantum is the 
highest scsi address and has the last drive bit set in the RDB. Also, setting
highID and highLUN should help also. I do not know why there is lastdrive
when highID and highLUN can perform the same function...

	-SES

    I have a GVP Series II with two external drives connected.  The drives
    are old Conners I got in a trade.  I, too, had problems first with
    running two drives on the same SCSI bus, second with booting.
    
    First, the Conners have jumpers on them that allow you to select
    whether the drive or the SCSI controller provide Bus power and
    Termination power.  When I initially tried to connect the drives the
    jumpers were set for the drive to provide Bus power and the SCSI bus to
    provide termination power.  Consequently I could only connect one drive
    to the SCSI bus and it would only work when it was unterminated. 
    Through trial and error, and a call to a local drive repair shop for
    the jumper functions, I set both drives to supply bus and termination
    power.  Now my SCSI drives and controller work as they should, well
    almost.  Deselect/Reselect doesn't work with this setup, it hangs on
    boot. I've heard on usenet that deselect/reselect, although mentioned
    in the GVP manuals, does not function. <-can't verify this but it
    doesn't work on MY setup.  Both drive show about 900K when using
    Diskspeed v3.x, and backing up a 123Meg partition asynchronously,
    disk-to-disk with verify and "a" bit setting, to a file using Amiback
    takes about 28 minutes.  Although I got my setup to function I am still
    unsure of a "general rule" for SCSI BUS and TERMINATION power settings
    for SCSI drives and Amiga host adapters.  If you use the trial and
    error method like I did (not recommended), make sure you are confident
    in your FLOPPY backups.  I had to reformat the drives a number of
    times.
    
    Second, I had an intermittent boot problem where the system would hang
    upon autoboot or boot with one or more partitions unmounted.  I ended
    up setting ALL my non-booting partition's BOOTPRI to -128 and my boot
    partition to -10 using GVP's SCSIprep (Faaaaastprep) upon a
    recommendation from GVP support.  Now if a boot floppy is installed the
    system will boot from the floppy; if no floppy boots from the hard
    drive's boot partition and mounts ALL other partitions.
    
    mark
    

    re -.2 and -.3
    
    ahh hhmm I meant scsi id.... not lun... (red face..) 
    
    thanks SES - that was what I was asking.
    
    I will also consider the boot pro stuff in the -1 note.
    
    thanks guys
    kevin

    re .18
    
    	I finally found out the answer. It was the SCSI switch!. For some
    unkown reason the cable with the selector switch is sensitive to the
    way it was put up. This seems silly at first but when I put a new cable
    off my Supra 48Mb it worked but only one way up!. The terminators are
    still in the drive but I am only using one drive. I cannot try an A3000
    anymore as I was just visiting a friend at the time. Eventually I want
    to put the fixed 48mb on with the Syquest. I am using this config on an
    At-a-rat-a-tri STE. Putting the plug round the right way fixed an
    intermittent problem on that!.
    
    My thanks for all the replies
    Jim gilmour
    

    	The 88 Mbyte Syquest drives are getting cheaper. Computability is
    selling bare drives for $425, cartridges for $125. I just installed one
    on the Pee Cee out in our lab. It's pretty fast, too. Seek time is 20ms
    and data transfers are about 450KB/sec. Norton SI rates it about 10%
    faster than the RZ24 sitting next to it. It's really slick. Just the
    thing for pretty ambitious multimedia documents.