Conference hydra::amiga_v1

     The new Bars & Pipes Professional sequencer has added
     scoring, but it is not as full as what you get with the main
     contender, Dr T's Copyist. Dr T has been changing and
     rearranging packages ( like everyone else, I guess) so I'm
     not positive on levels, but I think they have an
     "apprentice" and "pro" version of Copyist. This can be used
     with either Dr T's or other companies' sequencers. 
     
     There may be other packages that provide notation, but beware
     of the Mac Ports that do not multitask...  |^P
     
     The COMMUSIC notes conference has a note with
     manufacturer's adresses and numbers. I'll bet Dr. T would
     gladly send you some glossy pamphlets. ;^)
     
     Dave
     

Re basenote:

Maybe something went awry with your search- there are gobs of notes out there
on the topic!

The only problem will be to pick one of the available programs which do this, as
there are several with strong advocates. The ones which come to mind right off
are:

Dr T's KCS
Bars and Pipes Professional
MasterTracks Pro
Tiger Cub (Dr. T's?)

Others can add more, I'm sure; I tend mostly to remember packages which I've
considered purchasing myself (My purchase of Bars and Pipes Pro is imminent,
BTW).

The basic type of program you're talking about is called a sequencer- it
"records" sequences of MIDI events (including note on/off, velocity, pitch bend
settings, and so forth) which are then availale for playback, editing, and in
some cases, printing. It used to be that most sequencers had nothing to do with
scoring, and add-on packages were sold which printed standard scores from a
given sequencer's file format. Nowadays, the norm seems to be gravitating toward
"full-feature" sequencers which include scoring as a "native" feature.

Just in case you're not aware of it, you *will* need a MIDI interface for your
Amiga in order to connect it to your MIDI keyboard. Apart from that, support for
MIDI in/out is a fundamental requirement for sequencers, so consider that a
given.

Good luck in the great land of MIDI.

Cheers,
	Bob

    No, I'm not kidding, the search _did_ yield scores of notes (two puns),
    but nowhere could I find a concise answer to the questions "is there
    serious scoring capability," and "is the scoring accuarately connected
    to the midi port."
    
    And I did read all umpteen notes.  Anyway, do you think Dr. T's Copyist
    is adequate, or should I get Bars and Pipes?  Or, better yet, could
    someone let me test drive 'em?
    
    Thanks,
    
    John

Re .3:

Well, I've decided on Bars and Pipes Pro myself, but there are a lot of factors
in picking a sequencer. An AmigaWorld issue several months back had a fairly
good review of the available packages- I say "fairly good" because I thought a
lot of the writer's comments were completely based on personal bias, but not
presented as such. What *was* valid about it is that it highlighted the
importance of the overall *approach* taken by various packages as a factor in
getting the right "fit" for your own tastes.

What I like about B&P is its tool-oriented approach. Todor Fay, its author,
notes that it's been accused of being a sequencer "written by a programmer for
programmers," which he admits to being fairly accurate. Various tools are
interconnected to "process" the MIDI stream with an enormous amount of
flexibility. I can see how it might be too abstract for some folks, but IMHO
it's unbeatable for programmers, who find this approach almost natural. If you
are c-literate and have a compiler, you can also write your own tools using an
optional package "Rules for Tools."

I should point out that I don't yet have this package, although I've been very
satisfied with its predecessor, SoundScape. (I plan to order this week, though!)
The other packages have their proponents, and I've seen at least one note in
response to your request which mentions Dr. T's Copyist as more capable than
B&P Pro in the printing department; I don't know if that's based on experience
with both packages or not.

As far as test drives go, I think a lot of the packages have demos available in
TAPE::AMIGA:[UPLOAD] and/or TAPE::AMIGA:[AMIGA...]. I usually buy mail order
myself, but if you don't, perhaps you can do some tryouts at a dealer. Whatever
way you go, I think it would be hard to go wrong with any of the "quality"
packages currently available. You'll probably end up being a devout fan of
whatever you get and become accustomed to.

Cheers,
	Bob

>Anyway, do you think Dr. T's Copyist is adequate, or should I get Bars 
>and Pipes? 

I think Dr. T's Copyist is the best for scoring - It doesn't include
a sequencer. Think of it as a desktop music publishing program without a
text editor.  

I just upgraded to Bars & Pipes Pro and naturally prefer it to Dr. T's
sequencers, but I didn't buy it thinking about printing nice scores. 

You need to decide whether full featured MIDI sequencing with minimal
scoring is your goal or whether you really want full control over your
printed scores. If the main focus is scoring then you should probably
buy a lower level sequencer compatible with Copyist. I'm out of my league
here since I've never used Copyist, but I suspect you need a sequencer that
produces Standard Midi Files or one that multitasks nicely with Copyist
(and the Amiga Ram to run both programs). Neither requirement is
particularly unusual, but you could get burned. Most of the companies
producing lower-level sequencers have "Pro" versions that you can upgrade
to if you get hooked. You will use up some serious change to satisfy
with both goals. 

If you decide to go for limited scoring then you can go with B&P Pro
or Copyist Jr/Apprentice/whatever with B&P regular or some other 
sequencer.


BTW. Bob gets a little carried away sometimes (as do many Amiga Addicts ;-)).
I don't think there has been that much discussion of music scoring in this
conference. 

<rathole alert>

In fact, compared to its potential, the Amiga doesn't get
used for MIDI and music scoring nearly as much as it should. Some of
that is because Commodore has not established a standard MIDI Library
and has not promoted (sigh) the Amiga to musicians. There *should* be more
than one profession level scoring program. Publications like Electronic
Musician, a very competent magazine, are still basically "observing" the
Amiga while writing about the benefits of multitasking on Macs and Ataris.
Sad.

Dave

>Or, better yet, could
>    someone let me test drive 'em?

Of the Amiga stores in Mass, I'd guess the Bit Bucket has the most
knowlege of MIDI, ironically because of there association with Ataris.
You could try EU Wurlitzers in Boston, but I'd call first.

I will eventually post a review of B&P Pro and perhaps offer test drives
after I add memory to my A500. I can't do it justice with 1 meg, which would
be the first line of my review. %^)
Dave

    My first effort was done with DMCS exporting a SMUS file into Dr. T's
    Copyist.  From now on, I'll use Tiger Cub to handle MIDI in and move it
    to Dr. T's to print out.  I do big band scores and it does an
    acceptable job.  Dr.s T's also has a Desktop Publisher Version (read
    that "more expensive") that handles more pages, etc.  
    
    The director of big bands at the University of Alabama is into this
    type of publishing (does his on a Mac and it doesn't look quite as good
    as the Dr. T's).  He prints his, then takes it to PIP printing for
    transfer onto Yellow double-pages.  A single package might do, but I'm
    quite satisfied with using the two in combination right now.

    How is Tiger Cub when converting MIDI files?  I was thinking of buying
    it due to the number of MIDI files posted in KCS format.  What I would
    like to do is use Tiger Cub to convert KCS midi files into standard
    midi files to use in bars and pipes.
    
    mark

    If you are refering to KCS's .ALL format, T.C. says it will read and
    write both MIDI and .ALL files.  Haven't tried to send the MIDI files
    anywhere, though.  I don't have any other necessary tools to do that.
    
    Tony

>I think Dr. T's Copyist is the best for scoring - It doesn't include
>a sequencer. Think of it as a desktop music publishing program without a
>text editor.  

I agree, even if it looks not so user-friendly ... (it needs some time to
get used to keyboard commands and probably you'd write faster by hand your
first 2-3 scores :-)

Not to forget (I didn't see it mentioned here), Copyist can read Dr T's KCS
file and create the score, and viceversa.

Depending on how much you want to spend and/or how serious the product should
be, you could consider DMCS as well ... but be aware it gets sometime stuck
somewhere (and sometime it goes visiting the guru ;-).

my $0.02, Mauro.