Conference hydra::amiga_v1

If those be the facts, that is an amazing discount for a Vic-20...

    
    	It is a nice discount but the list price in .0 are wrong.
    The 25 MHZ Amiga 3000 list price is $2800.
    
    		Steve P
    

    GREAT IF YOU HAVE A VIC,OR 500 BUT NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO TRADE IN MY 2000.
    I can't see how they can give an across the board trade in and expect
    people that purchased a 2000 to go for it when those that have 500's 
    get the same deal. Of course I would not trade my 2000 for a 3000 today
    if it was even a one for one trade. I much perfer the GVP route. I am
    not sure the 3000 has the quality that the 2000 has. I know the
    arguments of better,later,more reliable manufacturing etc. ,but in
    looking inside each It doesen't appear that way. Aside from that much
    of the software rated for 2.0 still won't run properly on the 3000.
    	I do think that it dosen't cost CBM much more to manufacture the
    3000 tan it cost to build a 500. I wish I could feel different about
    this but I don't see the value in a 3000 now. Maybe in a year or so it
    will turn around.
    							bill

    re .3
    
    No no... read it again.  You DON'T have to turn in any hardware... just
    prove you own it.
    
    Can someone list exacly what comes with that A3000 system?   Hard
    Drive? Monitor? Memory?
    
    Thanks,
    Steve
    

    re .3
    
    Much of the software rated for 2.0 still won't run on the 3000?  What
    software.  I've had my 3000 since December and have not had a single
    program that had the green 2.0 sticker on it fail.  As a matter of
    fact I have had very few programs fail under 2.0 and hardly any fail on
    1.3 on the 3000.  I also do not understand your comments on poor
    quality.  I do not see any evidence of poor quality manufacturing or
    design in the 3000, quite the contrary.  I also do not understand why
    you feel Commodore could manufacture the 3000 for the same price as the
    500.  Come on!  How much does a 68030 cost compared to the 68000?  You
    also have the expansion ports, extra memory slots, EICS chips, SCSI
    controller, external SCSI connectors plus the whole thing is
    constructed out of metal rather than plastic with appropriate mounting
    bays, plus all 3000's come with either a 50 or 100 mb hard drive.  
    
    re .4
    
    The monitor is not included.  The prices in .0 reflect the 50 meg hard
    drive version which is preformatted, partitioned (with 2.0 and 1.3 boot
    partitions plus a data partition), 2 meg of memory, 1 floppy drive.
    
    Currently, kickstart is not available on ROM which means it has to be
    loaded from the hard drive when you boot.  It will also suck up 512k of
    your RAM so you might consider buying an extra meg of memory right away
    if you use memory intensive programs (like ppage, digi-view, etc).  The
    partitions take up some memory also.  ROM based 2.0 should be available
    soon so you will get your 512k back before long.
    
    I bought my A3000-16/50 (16 mhz, 50 meg drive) in December for $2800.
    At that time the price for the 25 mhz model was about $3200.  This
    would indicate that the true discount you would be getting is about
    $1000, still not bad for just turning in the cover of your manual.  I
    think this is a great program and hope a lot of people take advantage
    of it.  
    
    One thing to remember about the 3000 is that it doesn't have the
    expansion capacity of the 2000 due to it's compact design.  Only 2
    Pc/AT slots and only 3 hard/floppy drive mounting bays total (2 of them
    are already taken up.) so if you plan to add goodies on to it, it will
    take some planning and probably some comprimise.  Also, you can't use
    the standard 5.25" drive supplied with the BridgeBoard AT since there
    is nowhere to install it internally.  Unless C-A comes out with a
    bridgeboard with a 3.5" floppy (maybe they already do, I don't know)
    you will have to discard the 5.25 supplied and purchase a 720k or 1.44
    meg 3.5" floppy (which is what I did), works fine).
    
    Ken (who wished they had this program in December)
    

	Hmmmm, I wonder if this is because....

	i)	an '040 based machine is imminent  ??

	ii)	spring has sprung and we're all coming out of our dens 
		and family rooms; so toys are getting discounted to
		lure us back in ?? 

	iii)	its just the A3000 coming down its intro 
		pricing/pent-up demand curve ??

	iv)	the moon is in the seventh house ??

	v)	none of the above ??


	Reg	{currently "working on the boat" (-: }

    Is a similar deal going to be available in the U.K./Europe?
    
    Despite the high exchange rate of the pound against the dollar the cost
    of an A3000 in the U.K. is horrendous!

Here in Belgium the A3000 prices are just prohibitive. At about 5000$ for the
basic version (16MHZ, 50MB) they have little chance against 386 based clones
(33MHZ, 64K cache, 100MB disk, 4MB for about 3000$). For 5000$ you can even
think of a 486/25MHZ. If the prices remain like this I think I'll switch
from my randomly auto-booting A500 to some 486 clone (as their price goes lower
and lower). I have little arguments at this time against my wife's PC
orientation (yes, having a wife working in computers does not help in chosing
an A3000). I still like however very much my A500 and consider it a superior
design (hardware & especially software wise).

Sorin

    re .5
    	ken,
    	I realize the difference between the 500,and 3000. I should have
    said that CBM has the same of maybe greater profit margin on the 3000
    line. As for my remarks on quality I only know that what I see,and
    compariong it to other systems I see it looks,and feels flimsy.
    Regarding software. Sure it runs but it seems that you have to tweak 
    the moniter between every application. Then I see some programs that
    when you run them seem to have unusall requester boxs. This may well
    be a problem with the software(pro draw for 1) and 2.0 not the 3000.
    Then if some programs dpaintIII are in overscan you cannot get at the
    menus. Maybe this is all fixed now I don't know. I also noticed a
    distinct problem with programs like pro draw in regard to aspect ratio
    on the screen. This is not what you see is what you get by any means.
    It may be the way it is configured but the 3000 I use on ocassion
    certainly does not handle a lot of software as well as the 2000.
    Running, and running right to me are two different things. If I have to
    fiddle with every application I load I don't want to be bothered.
    

    re .6
    	or maybe they are sitting in the warehouse.
     A lot of amigas are selling, but they are selling to the video market, 
    and the 3000 is not the system of choice for video at this time. Maybe 
    I am bias against the 3000 because it came up far short of what I had 
    expected. Almost all the people I talk too are into video,and they show 
    little intrest in the 3000 beyond asking about it's price. You take a
    system that is geared for the video market, and then redo it so it will
    not fit with the current top of the line video equiptment(ie: supergen
    2000s), just to make it cute. Have you ever seen a video studio ? A
    rack mounted 2500 fits much better than the 3000. I think that CBM
    sacraficed a lot just for the sake of estecics,and all this for a
    market that likes,and needs sturdy utility type systems. I can see them
    stacking video equiptment on the 3000(ya sure). Great for the
    university that want a good unix(questionable if you want a 300+ size
    full height drive) but not for the rigers of a recording studio.
    						bill

Bill,

Almost every problem you mentioned is due to the monitor control settings.
In particular this is true if you use a monitor which allows a full
screen adjustment of the display.  The simplest way to fix this is
to not use a full screen display and leave a black border all the way
around it.  Screen related complaints are kind of silly.  If I hooked
a 1084 to the A3000 and turned off the interlacer and booted 1.3.
Applications should look the same as on the A2000 (only faster).
Doesn't mean they would all run though :-).  Actually the only things
which have failed me are a few games.  

One thing which helps is don't use productivity mode.  I notice
that when I use this I need to shift the screen around for some applications
which run on their own non-productivity screen.  I think this would not
be a problem though if I kept the black border.  Remember you don't have
this mode yet on your 2000, so any complaints related to that are kind of
unfair.  Same goes for the 1950.

I admit the only thing I don't like about my A3000 is the 1950.  In general
I'd suggest not touching the controls at all.  I think the vertical sizing
control on mine is defective.  Every time I use it I get a slight jitter
which lasts for days (this is NOT the deinterlacer fine tuning). If anyone
wants to make me a reasonable offer, I would probably sell it :-).

Really though I've looked inside my A3000 and it is a much more complex
machine than the 2000.  It's hard to make an objective comparison of the
two.  The 2000 motherboard looks almost empty by my standards.  The A3000
is loaded.  Almost every square inch is being used.  This can indicate
poor design as well as good, but in general I didn't see anything there
which didn't make "sense".  The only "hack" is the way the rom sockets
are set up and I'm grateful for that one.

If your arguing about availability of video hardware then the A2000 still
has a definite edge.  'nuff said.

regards,

-steve

    re .9 ,
    
    re: quality.  Ok, your entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to
    mine and my opinion is the quality and look of the 3000 is fine,
    certainly much greater than that of the 500 (especially considering the
    weak stock power supply on the 500).
    
    I have not noticed any of the monitor problems you described with my
    3000 ( I have a Commodore 1950 multi-sync).  Some programs have some
    funny quirks when run under 2.0 but I have run into very few that do
    not work at all on the 3000 (2.0 or 1.3) including AmigaBasic (which
    doesn't seem to be able to load or save files).  Keep in mind though
    that kickstart has not been finalized.  The version I am running is
    2.01 so some of these problems may have already been addressed and when
    the final kickstart version comes out on ROM, we will then see the
    actual compatibility.
    
    Ken
    

.11 was re: .9

.10 is a valid point but the blame is as much on the 3rd parties as it
is on CBM.  Many of the problems are due to 3rd parties not following
CBM specifications.  If DEC third parties made a card an inch larger
than we spec'd it, they'd be laughed out of the business (and deservedly
so).

-steve

    Re .10:
    
>   A lot of Amigas are selling, but they are selling to the video market, 
>   and the 3000 is not the system of choice for video at this time.
    
    Granted, a lot of Amigas are being sold into the video market, driven
    largely (but not exclusively) by the Video Toaster.  The A2000/A2500 is
    very well positioned to address the needs of this type of customer, and
    would still have an advantage even if the Toaster fit in the A3000.
    
>   Maybe I am bias against the 3000 because it came up far short of what
>   I had expected.
    
    That depends upon what you were expecting.  The A3000 provides a
    reasonable level of expandability (and the potential for LOTS of
    memory) in a compact package, which appeals more to white-collar
    customers more than the rack-bay crowd.  There's room for both.
    
>   Almost all the people I talk to are into video, and they show little
>   intrest in the 3000 beyond asking about its price.
    
    I'd be the first to agree that it is quite valuable for the Amiga to
    carve out a niche in the video market.  That's not the end of it,
    though.  The Amiga does a very nice job, thank you, in MANY other
    environments.  The fact that the A3000 might not be the model of choice
    for video takes nothing from its other applications.
                                                        

    getting back to the original subject...
    
    Can the serial number of a system that has been already been
    "traded-in" in a previous CBM offer be used?  I'm thinking about
    those systems that dealers sold as part of the first trade-in program.
    And those keyboard-less A1000s.
    
    My impression is yes, since the idea appears to be sell a lot of 3000s
    to CBM customer base.  Seems like a reasonable way to build up the
    the size of the installed base quickly.  This kind of deal seems to
    be ideal for the home market - if you can't use your Amiga
    because other family members are using it, maybe it will be a lot
    easier to justify a second computer, particularly if it is compatible
    with the first one and is on sale for $1000 off the price.
    
    I suspect this is the work of the new US general manager who is worried
    about losing the CBM 8bit and Amiga owners to the pc clones as they
    drop in price.  Hopefully that concern will spread to Europe too,
    before it is too late.
    
    Dave
    

    
    What sort of price am I looking at to bring a 2 meg A3000 up to 4 megs?
    
    Thanks,
    Steve (Thinking very carefully before he spends money he doesn't have)
    
    

    re -.1
    
    When I added memory to my 3000 in December, it cost me about $100 per
    meg.  This was for 1 meg ZIP chips.  You might want to check on the 
    current price of 4 meg chips and compare the cost.
    
    Ken
    

Ken,

If you really paid $100/meg you didn't get a very good deal.  Last
Oct/Nov I bought 4 MB of 1Mbit 80ns static column mode ZIPs mail order
for $48/meg.  Mike Meyer posted the pointer to BJS Electronics in
San Jose.  $192 for 4MB plus something like $5 for shipping.

BJS supposedly is selling 4Mb chips now for $29 each.  This is not
much more than what I paid for 4 1Mb chips and if I were going to buy
now that is what I would get.

Sorry,

steve

    I phoned Commodore UK and spoke to Andrew Ball, marketing.
    
ME  Is there going to be a 3000 deal for the UK?
    
C=  No.
    
ME  Is there going to be such a deal in the near future?
    
C=  No.
    
ME  Is Europe still going to be charged outragous prices for Amigas so as
    to subsidise the US market?
    
C=  Yes.
    
    
    The current UK price for an A3000/16Mhz is 2900 pounds sterling. At the
    current exhange rate of $1.70 to the pound, this works out at $4930.
    
    Looks like I wont be getting an A3000 for a long time.
    
    Angus

    RE : .-1
    
    >Looks like I wont be getting an A3000 for a long time.
    
    Same goes for me, and most other UK amiga owners :-(
          
    This seems a crazy situation, but because of the difference in US mains
    frequency we can't just ship an Amiga across the pond. Maybe someone
    out there on the net has some ideas on how to modify a 60Hz US Amiga to
    run on 50Hz UK mains?
    
    Any ideas?
    
    Barry.

    re .20
    
    If you can replace just the power supply, you should be able to do it.
    
    

    re: .20
    
    You don't even have to replace the power supply, just get one of those
    gadgets they sell to U.S. tourists to convert 50Hz European power to
    60Hz for hair dryers and razors, etc.  The new 60Hz Amigas can drive a
    PAL monitor.  Be sure the gadget has enough watts.
        John Sauter

Re .22:

	While I am sure there are power converters available to do this, I
    suspect the run of the mill tourist adapter would NOT do the job.  I've
    never been to Europe, but I remeber reading that the standard voltage there
    was 220 volts rather then the 110 volts common in the US.  The adapters,
    especially the cheap tourist ones, are little more than a high wattage
    resistor.  The more expensive ones are a step down transformer or 
    autotransformer of limited wattage but those are considerably heavier and
    less popular as a result.

Re .20:

	This may actually be simpler than you think.  If there is a switch on
    the power supply for 110/220 volts and the frequency range is the ususal
    47-63 Hz, the only thing you'll need is a different power cord.  I don't
    have a 3000 or I'd check this out for you.  There might be a problem with
    the clock not keeping the right time though.

    Re: .11

� which didn't make "sense".  The only "hack" is the way the rom sockets
� are set up and I'm grateful for that one.

    Just out of curiosity, could you elaborate on this one?

    Thanks,

    Pete

    Well, I don't know exactly what all those wires do, but essentially
    there are no roms on the a3000, this "hack" allows us to boot the
    rom code from the hard drive.  Either ks 1.3 or 2.0 can be selected
    at boot time.
    
    Eventually when 2.0 settles down I assume we'll be able to rip this
    stuff out and put in real 2.0 roms.  Then if we want to boot 1.3 we'll
    have to use Dave Haynie's setcpu or something like that...
    
    I think this was a good idea to get 2.0 out to a number of people
    with a minimum of risk to the user cause we can always drop back to
    1.3.
    
    -steve

Just received the latest issue of Amiga World and the Commodore ad for this 
program appears on page 87.

Other people seem to have clarified exactly what an Amiga 3000 is these
days. Also the proof of ownership is simply the cover of the owner's
manual with the serial number written on it.

I am checking on the possibility of this "deal" being available on the
UNIX system.

       Re : -.1

           I don't know if the A3000UX models are included in the Power
       Up deal, but this note off USENET indicates that regular A3000's
       will be able to run Amiga UNIX ...

       Sean

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article 911 of comp.unix.amiga
Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!bloom-beacon!mintaka!think.com!sdd.hp.com!mips!pacbell.com!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!amix!buck
From: [email protected] (Richard Buck)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.amiga
Subject: Standalone UNIX and 1.1 upgrades
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 9 May 91 22:51:12 GMT
Organization: Commodore-Amiga Unix Development
Lines: 93


Oft-asked questions include:

	Can I buy Amiga UNIX separately to put on my A3000?
	Does Amiga UNIX work on a 2000/2500?
	How can I upgrade from/to version 1.1?
	How much do the various 3000UX models cost?
	Can I buy a multi-user license?


I'm not in marketing, so this is not "official", but it is accurate.


1.	When can I buy standalone Amiga UNIX to put on my A3000?

Soon.

The standalone UNIX package exists; no extra pieces are required, and we
have many shrink-wrapped packages sitting in our offices right now.  The 
reason you haven't seen it at dealers is that we've had trouble designing a
cardboard box and setting a price.  It will be exactly the same as the 1.1
shipped on 3000UXes, including tape, disks, and documentation.  You should
have at least 4 MB RAM and we recommend a 200 MB disk (although it runs
fine in 100 MB).   You can use this package to reinstall over your existing
hard disk, if it's big enough, or install on a separate disk.  It will be
available soon, certainly by the end of this month.  With the release of
2.0, the same product will be available for 3000s and 2000s.


2.	Does Amiga UNIX work on a 2000/2500?

Yes and no.

A well-hidden secret is that it does work, but we don't like to admit that.
We're not supporting the 2000/2500 series until a hardware upgrade package
is available and Amiga UNIX 2.0 comes out.  The basic upgrade (other than
having enough memory and disk space) is replacing the 2630 and Kickstart
ROMs, but more details will follow when we release the kit this summer.  We
don't like it in its current configuration because it doesn't match the
way AmigaDOS and Amiga UNIX live together (and boot) on the 3000 series.  
While it works and has worked all along, we want to wait until the 2000
series UNIX can be brought into sync with the 3000 series UNIX.  This
upgrade kit and path will be available when 2.0 is released.

For those who care, there are no plans to put Amiga UNIX on an A500.


3.	How can I upgrade from/to version 1.1?

Easily.

If you bought a legitimate copy of any previous Amiga UNIX version, you can
upgrade to version 1.1 by sending $50 to Dawn Phelps, Amiga UNIX Marketing 
Coordinator, 1200 Wilson Drive, West Chester, PA, 19380.  You'll need a
proof of purchase of some sort, since we didn't include a registration card
in many of the early builds.  The $50 is to cover the cost of the tape and
new manuals.  Future upgrades (to 2.0 and beyond) will be handled in the
same manner.  For the time being, upgrades are being shipped with a copy
of the new System V Release 4 Wall Chart.


4.	How much do the various 3000UX models cost?

More than a breadbox, less than a boat.

This information has been published in various places, and I think my life 
will be easier if I don't add anything more at this point.


5.	When can I buy a multi-user license?

Soon.

It's similar to the standalone UNIX issue.  The product exists, and existed
when we started shipping Amiga UNIX 1.1 on 3000UXes, but we haven't put it
in a cardboard box and set a final price.  We plan to do this right away.

Since UNIX System Laboratories still thinks of UNIX as a big system, the
royalty fee reflects their assumption that many users will use one system.
Our system is priced as a workstation; if we made the multi-user license
available to everyone, it would raise the cost of the machine.  Many - most -
of our customers want to use the 3000UX for multiple login sessions on the 
various virtual screens and network port, but all under the same user 
name (or root).  We therefore provide a cheaper license.  If you want 
an unlimited license, USL assumes you are using the system as a large file 
or e-mail server, and therefore wants you to pay a higher licensing fee.



--
		"Klaatu barada nicto"

		Richard Buck, (215) 344-3019, [email protected]  (4/91)

Article 1048 of comp.unix.amiga
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From: [email protected] (Richard Buck)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.amiga
Subject: Re: PowerUp deal for UX's too?
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 30 May 91 21:25:14 GMT
References: <[email protected]>
Distribution: na
Organization: Commodore-Amiga Unix Development
Lines: 22

> >	I have a few fellow Amigaphile friends who are salivating over
> >	my 3000UXD. Does anybody know if the PowerUP deal can be
> >	applied toward UXB's and UXD's? 
> 
> 	I called up my local dealer to ask them about that yesterday.
> Their responce was: unfortunately no.  They said the PowerUP deal did
> not apply to UXes.
> 



The PowerUP deal DOES - repeat, DOES - apply to 3000UX boxes.  Information
on this went out to dealers this week, so your dealer may not have known
when you called.  If your dealer does not think PowerUP applies to UNIX
boxes, either wait a few days or have him/her call Commodore.

PowerUP is a GOOD thing for interested 3000UX buyers.



--
		Richard Buck, (215) 344-3019, [email protected]  (5/91)

The dealer local to Nashua, NH (System Eyes) also has not yet heard of this
program's applicability to the UXB and UXD systems. Does anyone have the
discounted prices for them?

Bob

       According to the Memory Location (617 237-6846) the UX's under
       the Power Up program are $1500 off list price, which isn't quite
       as good educational price (at least for the UXD).

       According to article 46 of comp.sys.amiga.announce :

Product                    List Price      Individual Edu. Price
-------                    ----------      ---------------------
Amiga 3000-16/50            $2999.00            $2183.00
Amiga 3000-25/50            $3499.00            $2547.00
Amiga 3000-25/100           $4699.00            $3421.00
Amiga 3000UXB               $5499.00            $4003.00
Amiga 3000UXD               $6999.00            $5095.00

       Which means that the Power'd Up A3000UXB is $3999 ($4 _below_
       edu. price) and the Power'd Up A3000UXD is $5499 ($404 _above_
       the edu. price).

       On the other hand, the Power'd Up A3000-25/50 is $2249 which is
       $298 _below_ edu. price.  It seems to me that the best way to go
       would be to buy the A3000-25/50 now, and later, when AMIX V2.0 is
       shipping on tape (see note 4700.27), buy the extra memory and
       hard drive to support it ...

       Sean

       PS:  I asked the Momory Location if I could buy the A3000-16/50
            rather than A3000-25/50, knowing in advance that I'd
            eventually be upgrading to the '040.  He didn't think that
            this would be possible (i.e. you'd be hardwired in at 16MHz
            for the '040).

       PPS: Another reason to go for the A3000-25/50 is to avoid paying
            big bucks for just a little more memory and disk, _and_ that
            ethernet board that you probably wouldn't be needing at home!
            Let's see; according to the Power'd Up prices, $1750 buys you
            50M more disk, 3M more memory, an ethernet card (which
            separately costs around $300) and AMIX.  I think I'd rather
            go for the A3000-25/50, buy a used SCSI disk, install extra
            memory at the current rate of $288/4M, and hopefully AMIX
            won't cost _too_ much when it's released at V2.0 ;-).

>       PS:  I asked the Momory Location if I could buy the A3000-16/50
>            rather than A3000-25/50, knowing in advance that I'd
>            eventually be upgrading to the '040.  He didn't think that
>            this would be possible (i.e. you'd be hardwired in at 16MHz
>            for the '040).
    
    As good as Mem location is, I've found they aren't a very good source
    for A3000 hardware answers.  It has been stated on many occasions by
    Dave Haynie himself (A3000 designer) on usenet that both the 16Mhz and
    25Mhz version will accept the '040 coprocessor board when it becomes
    available.
    
    Memory location said I couldn't hook a second hard drive on my
    A3000-25/50. They didn't know how to get around the reselection
    problem.  Jeez this was documented in the papers I got with the A3000! 
    When I told him I was going to hook up a TK50 tape drive he laughed and
    said not to count on it working.  This is the thin guy who seems to be
    the most hardware knowledgable person on the floor unfortunately.  Of
    course this was last November, but it doesn't sound like they've
    improved at all.
    
    Other than a few chips and a crystal there isn't much different between
    the A3000-16 and A3000-25.  The problem is those few chips are surface
    mounted (read very difficult to remove/attach).
    
    regards,
    
    steve

    In regards to the last few entries...
    
    If you buy a 16 Mhz A3000, then you are restricted to 16 Mhz across the
    main bus and otherboard memory.  Therefore (as was stated in a previous
    reply),  a 68040 would be restricted to 16Mhz.
    
    The A3000-25/100 comes with the 4MB scrams, enough memory to run UNIX,
    you would just need the software and tapedrive.  A 25/50 would need
    more memory and more disk.  (100 MB is minimum for UNIX.)

Well, as far as I know the coprocessor board can run at any speed it wants
and can have its own auto-config memory on board.  So yes the memory on the
motherboard would be slower, but you could have faster memory on the coprocessor
board.  Conceivably they might not put any memory space on the card, but
no-one other than CSA has done that yet as far as I know.

In any event, the coprocessor card can run at a faster speed and with the
'040 separate data/inst caches you would notice a speed difference even on
a 16Mhz A3000.  I don't think its fair to say at all that the '040 would
be limited to 16Mhz.  It depends on the configuration and the software you
are running.  Floating point for example, would probably be a lot faster.

Of course I bought the 25Mhz version myself :-).  I'm still debating about
whether or not I want to run U*IX.  AmigaDOS is actually refreshing after
looking at U*IX all day at work.

-steve

    Re .31:
    
>   As good as Mem location is, I've found they aren't a very good source
>   for A3000 hardware answers.
    
    I'd describe them as "spotty" in terms of having a good understanding
    of the technical aspects of the Amiga (all models).  Roy and Dave both
    speak hardware pretty well, but might not be up to snuff on Commodore's
    marketing programs.  Don (the owner) has a general knowledge of what
    all the products are, but don't press him for details (he'll usually
    hand off to one of the others for demonstrations).  The other people
    vary widely in expertise (their self-proclaimed expert on everything
    strikes me as a bozo).

    Quoting Dave directly:
    
    	It is possible for a coprocessor card to drive the motherboard with
    its own clock. This would, for instance, allow a coprocessor board to
    clock a 16MHz system's motherboard logic at 25MHz (the on-board 68xxx
    chips would get the 16MHz clock, still, and would basically be shut
    off).
    
    and...
    
    The only thing you lose with the 16MHz version is the capability to run
    both coprocessor cad CPU and motherboard CPU at 25MHz together -- you
    basically have your choice of running just the coprocessor and
    motherboard at 25MHz, 68030  shut off, or running the motherboard and
    the coprocessor interface pint at 16MHz, with the 68030 still active.
    You can't switch on the fly.
    
    People other than CSA have done memory-less CPU cards for the 2000, but
    I don't think anyone else did a card that didn't have a memory
    expansion capability. For the 3000, the memory makes less difference,
    so I fully expect people to come out with memoryless '040 cards for the
    3000.
    
    	<mike
    

For those that may not know -- the PowerUp discount ($1500 off any A3000
system if you provide the owner's manual cover and the Serial Number of your
existing Amiga) will continue to be in effect until August.

Well, I couldn't resist -- I'm getting the 3000UX w/ 200meg HD

This means that in about 2 weeks I'll have a full 2000 for sale. I haven't
set prices yet, but if you're interested here's the system config:

A2000 Rev 6.2B with 2 floppy drives, 1 meg agnus. 7 meg total memory, KB, mouse
68020 Accelerator with 4 meg 32bit memory and math co-processor
GVP Impact Series II SCSI controller with 2 meg memory and 100 meg Quantum disk
1080 Monitor
Flicker Fixer
Some Comercial Software, and Lots of FD software.
Some extras

I'll post it in FOR SALE in 2 weeks when it's available - with prices.


Can someone help me with some 3000UX questions?

1) I see it comes with X-windows. Does it now come with MOTIF? Can I get
    MOTIF somehow? I noticed that gfxbase is now selling motif for AmigaDOS.

2) Am I correct in assuming that I'd be better off buying a 3rd party multi-
   sync monitor (NEC, etc) instead of the 1950? The specs seemed kinda low.

3) Should I spring for the tape drive? How is CBM releasing updates?
   part of the reason I ask is that I probably could connect a TK50 drive,
   but that's not compatible with the CBM media.

4) What manuals does it come with? Are these enough, or should I plan to
    buy some of the "official" X and Unix SVR4 books?

5) Can I support my USENET node and my users with the UNIX UUCP, or do I have
   some sort of multi-user license issue to deal with?

6) Does it come with all the X toys and tools listed in the gfxbase X windows
    AmigaDOS product?

7) Any there any GENLOCK horror stories, or will pretty much anyone work?

8) Should I (CAN I) buy a bridgeboard, or does the IBeM emulator seem to work
    well enough?

9) Does it come with the ethernet card? I've seem conflicting documentation
   about this.



Thanks! Can't wait for the answers and my machine.


Keith Barrett
DECmessageQ Eng.
PAMSRC::BARRETT

re: .36 

>1) I see it comes with X-windows. Does it now come with MOTIF? Can I get
>    MOTIF somehow? I noticed that gfxbase is now selling motif for AmigaDOS.

	No, not Motif.  Being an implementation of AT&T's System V.4, it
	uses Sun's Open Look GUI instead of Motif.  There may be a 680x0
	version of Motif for System V.4 available from some third party,
	but I don't who.

	-Art

    According to our friends at TML, the Power Up deal has been extended
    through August.  [ My 3000 should be here *tomorrow*!  8^D ]

Hmm, well, I can ask, right?

I have an A1000, original, never traded up on anything.
I'm willing to lend my owner manual cover and serial
number to some party wanting to use this deal,
but I'll want a cut, 1/3, on the credit you get.

Hell, that's probably worth more than my whole system
(originally $4400) will sell for!

Anyway, I'm not sure about the ethics, etc.. but it seems
fairly harmless to me, and I've declared myself a charitable
institution this year ;-)

Dave

[Hm, what is the owner's manual, exactly?  I have all original
 docs, but I don't recall anything like an owners manual
 except that stupid, very stupid, 2/3 inch book with
 the basic introduction to the system]

Email if interested. 

Article: 4940
From: [email protected] (Ewout Walraven)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Commodore announces Amiga 500 Power Up program
Date: 2 Jul 91 14:03:01 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA
 
-------------------------------------------------------
For Release:		Immediately
 
Contact:		Chilton G. Goebel, Jr., APR
			Ketchum Public Relations
			215-931-2091
 
            COMMODORE (R) ANNOUNCES POWERFUL OPPORTUNITY
   
                      TO OWN AN AMIGA 500 (TM)
 
 
	West Chester, PA, June 24, 1991 -- Commodore Business Machines, Inc.,
offers owners a powerful opportunity to Power Up to an Amiga 500 at
significant cost savings.  Commodore's Power Up Program gives current users 
the opportunity to own an Amiga 500 at a great price.
 
	Now, owners of a Commodore 16 (TM), Commodore 64 (R), Commodore 64SX,
Commodore 128 (TM); or a Pet (R), Commodore Plus/4 (TM) or VIC 20 (R) can save
up to $300 on an Amiga 500 P (regularly priced at $799) and up to $200 on an
Amiga 500S (regularly priced at $599).
 
	To realize the Power Up Program savings, a current owner of one of 
the above machines needs only write the CPU serial number on the cover of the
original owner's manual (no photocopies will be accepted) and take it to an
authorized Commodore-Amiga dealer.
 
	The Power Up Program also makes it possible for educators and students
to take advantage of this special pricing opportunity.  All that is needed 
for a student is a high school diploma, college ID or college acceptance letter.
Or, for an educator, a school ID or business card.  The student or educator need
only show one of the appropriate documents to an authorized Commodore dealer
to receive these powerful Amiga 500 cost savings.
 
	The powerful Amiga 500S connects with a home television, has 
incredible graphics with more than 4,000 on-screen colors, build-in sound, 
word processing, a program that teaches geography, and three games.
 
	The Amiga 500P includes one MB RAM, a word processor, clock/calendar,
paint and music programs, and a challenging graphics-oriented game.
 
	The offer, not valid with any other offer or special pricing program, is
available until October 31, 1991, at participating Commodore dealers.  
Call 1-800-66-Amiga or contact an authorized Commodore dealer for more 
information.
 
	Commodore Business Machines, Inc., based in West Chester, Pa., 
manufactures and markets a complete line of computers and [peripherals for the
business, education, government and consumer markets.
 
	Commodore VIC 20, Commodore 64 and PET are registered trademarks of 
Commodore Electronics Ltd.  Commodore 128 and Commodore Plus/4 are trademarks
of Commodore Electronics Ltd. Amiga 500 is a trademark of Commodore-Amiga,  Inc.

    I wonder when they are going to get more aggressive, like making
    the offer to Apple II and Atari 8bit owners.  Nice touch including
    the educational market, but it looks like they don't want high
    school kids and younger.  I wonder why, could it be that market
    is being left for the mass discount chains?  Interesting that
    both the 500S and 500P are in the offer.
    
    Dave
    

     It looks like the 500p no longer comes with Amigavision too.
     I think it used to.
     Dave
        

Re: .42

>It looks like the 500p no longer comes with Amigavision too.

I don't know.  The description in .40 is:

   "The Amiga 500P includes one MB RAM, a word processor, clock/calendar,
    paint and music programs, and a challenging graphics-oriented game."

Maybe AmigaVision is the free "challenging graphics-oriented game." :-)

	So, the 3000 power up programme finally ends ?
Just time for a couple of phone calls to the mail order places, a
quick zip through all the local dealers and a little procrastination
over the week-end, then do it or don't do it on monday. 

	Well, I've held out this long, maybe I'll make it through to 
tuesday (-:   

	Hmmmm  '040 boards......

	or should I just go down to BJ's and get the 80486 with 105 
meg disk, super VGA, etc. for ~$2300 ?

	R

Ray at Ampex Systems (Atlanta Dealer) said that the Power Up program has now 
been extended through October because of the backlog of orders.

Article: 8099
From: [email protected] (Carolyn Scheppner - CATS)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: A3000 Power Up Extension
Date: 27 Sep 91 22:12:50 GMT
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
 
 
                    AMIGA A3000 NEWS FROM COMMODORE
 
Commodore has finally caught up with A3000 demand over the past several
weeks and virtually all dealers should now have inventory.  In addition,
because of the previous delays in meeting the increased A3000 demand,
we are again extending the POWER UP pricing through October 31, 1991.
 
In other news, watch the boards next week for announcements regarding
the upgrade programs for AmigaVision and AmigaDOS 2.0.
 
Thanks for your continued support and patience.
 
David Archambault
Director Business Marketing
 
-- 
==========================================================================
 Carolyn Scheppner -- Tech. Mgr. CATS - Commodore Amiga Technical Support
 PHONE 215-431-9180 {uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!carolyn  [email protected]
 
 Integer math - it's all so pointless.
==========================================================================

	This is making me kick myself that I thru out that Commodore 64
	and manual I had all those years ago.. I'd give serious
	consideration to getting a 500P.  Oh well..

							mike