Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    To extrude with a path you must create a path of POINTS connected with
    lines.  The spline paths created with the "make path"(or whatever) menu
    item will NOT work with extrude.
    
    To create a path for extrusion I usually place an axis, go into "ADD
    LINES" mode, lay out the path, name it, then go into the MOLD requestor
    and specify the path name of the path I created.  THE MANUAL IS
    INCORRECT in the extrude to path section.
    
    mark

I have managed to sucessfully perform most types of brush wraps, but I have
one problem that I can't seem to solve, maybe someone else has run across
this:

  I add a plane from detail editor primitives, and wrap a brush on it
  (FLAT X FLAT Z) and render the picture and it's fine. Then if I make
  the plane a cycle object (make it rotate 360 degrees over 40 frames)
  then rerender the picture and the brush is now crooked on the plane.
  Simply turning off the 'number of cycles to perform' in the action
  editor for the plane object causes the brush to be aligned ok. But
  then of course the object does'nt cycle.

  Any ideas. (oh, this is with Imagine V1.1)

  Steve.

    Do you have access to the Imagine mailing list on the Internet?  There
    are quite a few people there who use Imagine extensively.  Expecially
    the animation portions.  If you post there you are bound to get some
    suggestions and possibly a workable solution.  If you are not on the
    mailing list I can post it for you.
    
    mark
    

->     Do you have access to the Imagine mailing list on the Internet? 

Yes, that was my next move.

thanks.
Steve

    If you grt the answer from internet would you please post it here. I
    have ordered the "Imagine Companion" ,but tend to feel that the problem
    here is a bug in the software. However many of these have workarounds
    and I am interested to see the reply you get.
    
    Announcing a new book from the author of the Turbo Silver 3.0 manual.
    (that part scares me)
    		The Imagine Companion
    		Motion Blur Publishing
    		915A Stambaugh Street
    		Redwood City, CA 94063
    
    Including...
    	* Many tips, tricks and hints for new,and expert users.
    	* Lots of lavishly illustrated step-by-step tutorials with
    	  explanations.
    	* Includes material on the new new imagine 1.1 version.
    	* Comes with free disk with many example files
    		$29.95 postpaid
    Now I imagine(forgive the pun) that this book will not be as
    enlightning as it appears in the above ad but I need all the help I
    can muster, so I ordered it. Impulse said their tape should be ready
    next week. I got a lot from "The World of Silver" so I'll order the
    tape next.  
    	
    I used PageRender 3D to make an unextruded Hex array of hex objects(18
    in array) an then formed it into a dome. I then converted it to silver
    format,and loaded it into IMAGINE. It gave in interesting result. I
    plan on converting the alphabet next. It is too bad that we can't
    import these into the forms editor. I am going to call the people who
    made interchange,and ask if they can make a module that will allow
    this. Because of the success of imagine I feel it may happen.
    							bill

    >    Announcing a new book from the author of the Turbo Silver 3.0 manual.
    This announcement guarantees minimum sales.  The Silver manual was one
    of the worst documents I've ever read.  The Imagine manual comes a
    close second.  When you receive the book why don't you give us a
    review.  Maybe the author has learned from his mistakes.
    
    mark

This is a great program, if you use Imagine give it a try.  mark
    oh, btw      TAPE::AMIGA:[UPLOAD]imconed11.lzh.  This works great
    with the Imagine v1.1 feature of "Reconfig".
    

			      *************
				ImConEd1.1
			      *************

		What the hell is an ImConEd? Well, it's a program to 
	edit your Imagine.config file with. I assure you that if you
	don't know what an Imagine.config file is, this program is NOT
	for you. Sure, you can use a text editor to change the settings
	in your Imagine.config file, but ImConEd is easier, and more
	fun. ;^) 

		First and foremost, I want to tell anyone who might 
	want to use this program, that it is an ALPHA release (at best!) 
    

    Well I recieved my copy of the 'Imagine Companion' today. The book is 
    the size of many of the manuals being shipped with software today
    (8 1/2 x 6)?? ,and is spiral bound with white wire. There are 177 pages
    and the illustrations are not color. They are screendumps that were
    rendered to grayscale, while not special they are suitable and get
    the job done. 
    	The book is divided in two sections, a notes section with info and
    tips on the various modules,and a heavy tutorial section. The tutorials
    are:
    	1)Spin a cup
    	2)Painting, and spinning
    	3)path extrude
    	3)altitude brush mapping
    	4)lighting
    	5)fluted twisted column
    	6),7) cycle tutorial
    	8)Ripple FX Animation
    	9)Funny Face
    	10)Spotlight
    	11)depth of field(recommends 24 bit display board for proper
    	viewing)
    These tutorials are well done, in that they step you throuhg each one
    a single step at a time,and are all supported by the accompanying disk
    that has the .imp directories for each tutorial . Also included on the 
    disk are the brushes needed for the tutorials, two config files,and
    two seperate versions of an index for the Imagine reference manual.
    	The notes section contains a lot of tips on gotyas that you will
    hit as you explore imagine.
    	one of the things I noticed right off may be able to help Steve
    with his rotation problem. Imagine 1.1 has the rotation FX, and I think
    that is what Steve was using. Well it states that objects to which
    rotation FX are applied start uot already rotated r/n degrees where
    r is the total rotation amount,and n is the number of frames over 
    which FX is applied. It then gives a lengthly example on rotating the
    object about it's own verticle or Z axis, starting at zero degrees.
    							bill

    Was this written by Rick Rodriguez?
    
    mark
    
    

    No! it is written by David Duberman. He also is doing a tutorial series 
    in AVID. I found the book to be a great help this past weekend. I would
    not sell it back for twice the cost today. (if I new I could not
    replace it). 
    							bill

    I will be uploading the index file for the Imagine Reference manual
    today. It is available in a one column,and a 4 column format. These file
    are on the Disk that comes with the book, but is in the PD.
    	I spent the weekend mapping an IFF I got by scanning a picture of
    an antique marble(my other hobby is collecting these little gems) onto
    the surface of a sphere. The result was a neat looking planet. I added
    a few rings, told the planet to revolve and then added a starfield. Fun
    stuff for sure! I made the attributes for the rings to simulate glass,
    and left it up to the powers that be,and globals to color them. I've
    always had a problem with generating a good looking glass, but it came
    out nicely. I had to do quarterham screens in scanline because of the
    processing it took. Then I grabbed another pic in trace to convert to
    a gif for my Decstation. Somewher along the line I managed to lose the
    affect I had achieved for the rings(red transparent) but I plan on 
    playing with it some more. This program is certainly named right.
    							bill

>    the surface of a sphere. The result was a neat looking planet. I added
>    a few rings, told the planet to revolve and then added a starfield. Fun
>    stuff for sure! I made the attributes for the rings to simulate glass,

I wouldn't mind seeing this animation... Sounds neat.

Has anyone done a full scale "fly-by" of all the planets yet? You know, like
they have on Nova...

    a full scale "fly-bye" would be great, but I don't think I could render
    it in my lifetime given the objects. I hope to land on MY planet
    someday and fly around(need vista pro first). When it looks more
    acceptable I'll opload the pieces for those that are interested. As it
    stands now i want to put some more work into it. This is my first
    attempt at this sort of thing. FWIW The first pass anim of 10 frames
    autoboots, and runs on the 512k amiga we have in shop. I am going to
    try the 30 frame anim next.
    								bill

    I have placed the index files for the reference manual in
    tape::amiga:[upload]imgindex.lzh.
    	There are two files a 1 column,and a 4column index. They were
    prepared by Scott Busse from Vancouver, british Columbia and placed in
    the public domain.
    								bill

   I have a few GIF images available for those that have color workstations
   that have been created using Imagine. The .iff format is also available
   but not near as crisp and clear as the .gif format. The large .gif cube
   picture looks real nice 19" workstation screen.

   $ DIR CGOU11::D1:[DREW.IMAGINE_PICS]
   
CUBE.IFF;1              145  29-MAY-1991 08:47:43.00 
CUBE_1024_X_864.GIF;1   337  29-MAY-1991 10:09:10.00 
CUBE_1280_X_1024.GIF;1  459  29-MAY-1991 10:09:17.00 
GOLDMAN.GIF;1           264  29-MAY-1991 10:09:26.00 
GOLDMAN.IFF;1           218  29-MAY-1991 10:09:33.00 
MARBLE_JAR.IFF;1        218  29-MAY-1991 08:53:05.00 
MARBLE_JAR.GIF;1        589  29-MAY-1991 10:09:38.00 

   One of the images is a good example of brush wrapping (cube) in Imagine. 
   I wrapped 4 IFF pictures on 4 sides of a cube next to a chrome ball that
   reflects one of the hidden sides (my face, ughh). I also digitized the 
   digital logo and wrapped this onto a ground plane repeating into infinity.

   I even rendered this as a 40 frame DCTV animation with the cube rotating 
   and it looks quite good thru DCTV.

   Then re-rendered one frame of this anim in large format for sales to use
   as a sample pic for our new DecPC (486/Intel). Since it displays upto
   1280 x 1024 (nice). Imagine is great for doing large pics like that.
   (Just remember to set the aspect to 1:1 if rendering for GIF pics).

   The MarbleJar image was done by another fellow in town, and looks 
   fantastic on a 24bit firecracker board. The goldman object in the
   other picture is a nice fully moveable object (400K object) created
   by the same fellow that did the MarbleJar.
   
   Steve.

Those images look really great (both the .gifs and iffs).  If you do
any others, let us know.  The lack of resolution on the Amiga side doesn't
seem too big of a drawback, due to the increased number of colors.

Good work!

Steve

	The node name should be CGOU01:: for those pics not CGOU11::

	CGOU01::D1:[DREW.IMAGINE_PICS]

	/Steve.

    uh, how do you view them on a workstation?
    
    mark
    

	re: .-1 how to view on workstation

   To view gifs on a workstation you can use a number of utilities,
   xloadimage, xgif, avail from number of places including decwindows
   notes files.

   But the best/fastest viewer of all is 'xv' it has lots of features
   to adjust the image, resize, gama, brightness, and ability to resave
   in other formats.

   xv is a unix only tool, however I did convert this to VMS a while back
   and added VMS wildcard support. Some of the features don't work properly
   in VMS, but most do. 

   I placed xv.exe and xv.doc in the same directory:
		 CGOU01::D1:[DREW.IMAGINE_PICS]

   Use it via:

   $ xv :== $sys$login:xv.exe
   $ xv -perfect *.gif

.... then clicking the right mouse button over the picture brings up
     a file requester listing all the files found and double click on
     the picture to view, or other gadgets for saving,  gama, crop, info
     and so on.

	Steve.

	Well, I'm impressed with the work that went into these pictures.
	But I've become pretty blase` about renderings, especially since
	seeing extended-radiosity renderings in a recent ACM proceedings
	on graphics and asking myself "why did these guys put photographs
	of their lab in their article" and then realizing the pictures were
	synthetic.  Until the Amiga has radiosity s/w, it's way behind.
tom

I'm not up to date on all the latest, and greatest rendering techniques
and algorithms.  Is "extended-radiosity" an extension to ray tracing?
If its an algorithm improvement, what type of display standard 
(ie. 24 bits/pixel, etc) would you really need to take advantage of it? 

A basic explanation or pointer would be appreciated.

Steve

	I think the article I saw most recently was in ACM Proceedings on
	Grphaics Jan or Feb orMarch 91, Extended Radiosity.  It is not an
	addition to ray tracing, it is a completely different approach.
	Scientific American had a pictorial about the same month; there
	is an architectural picture on the cover in grays and blues I think,
	with light streaming in from windows. I header about it first in
	an HP Journal article a couple years ago.
	It calculates the radiation, using conservation of energy,
	reflecting, tranmitting, emitting,etc., for each voxel.  Then rendering
	doesn't have to worry about any light paths.  After the initial
	scene is calculated internally, renderings for different views
	are faster than ray trace.
	The most characteristic thing about the images is that shadows
	and kind of diffuse, graduating shades, like in real life, not
	sharp boxy boundaries.
	Tom

    Computer Graphics did a review of the VT, and had a picture of a
    hallway with columns that look very good. This is without the benifit
    of the ray tracing available with Imagine. We can all dream but lets
    put this in perspective. I don't think it is realistic to compare
    Imagine with the output of maybe several crays working with I can
    assume software costing several thousands(maybe millions) of dollars.
    	At the level the Amiga lives at I think I'm way ahead. I can do
    things today I could never had done a year ago. When it comes to
    imaging the only place you will find state of the art is at the high
    end of the ladder. I know of one package that runs on the Mac costing
    much more that only gives one light source. I can hardly wait until
    Tom gets his system that does extended-radiosity rendering so we can
    see some pics. While Tom stated that this form of rendering is faster
    ONCE IT IS DONE INTERNALLY, the question is how long is this
    initalization process. I see pics every month in Computer Graphics
    magazine that outshine the Amiga, but never any done on a system that
    is in the Amiga's price range. When I start to see a lot done on the
    Macs,and Clones that outdo me I'll start to worry.
    							bill

	I seem to recall that the radiosity
	renderings I saw were done on a VAX mini.
	Crays are not necessary for ordinary scenes.  Crays are not necessary.
	Large labs are figuring out that 200 people time-sharing a cray
	are better off with 200 workstations, and have more computes.
	Tom

    
    Very nice images Steve, they look good on my Vaxstation... If only the
    colormap wouldn't get corrupted every time I click in my UniGraphics
    window...
    
    Anyway, I have seen renderings of similar quality done with Renderman
    and AutoShade on PCs, but the price tag is close to $2000 for the
    software.
    
    Ed  
    
    
    

    
>    Anyway, I have seen renderings of similar quality done with Renderman
>    and AutoShade on PCs, but the price tag is close to $2000 for the
>    software.
 
Hey Ed!

Aren't you glad you bought a PC? ;-)   

john

A creater of one of one of the packages that does 3d ray tracing said he
was "into" radiosity this year, and it should show up in that package
when he's through with it.

	<mike

    
    > Hey Ed!
    
    > Aren't you glad you bought a PC? ;-)
    
    Seriously John?  I have the same feelings towards my PC as I have
    towards my microwave oven... I need it, but I don't get excited over
    it.
    
    Ed.
                                      

    re .19 the xv program from CGOU01::D1:[DREW.IMAGINE_PICS]
    
    I get the following ident mismatch error
    
    LDG$ xv *.gif
    %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image DECW$XLIBSHR
    -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file
    $1$DUA0:[SYS11.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]DECW$XLIBSHR.EXE
    -SYSTEM-F-SHRIDMISMAT, ident mismatch with shareable image
    
    Is the source available, or a version that runs on VMS 5.3?
    

	I stuck a version linked under (but not tested) VMS 5.3-1
	in the same directory:

	CGOU01::d1:[DREW.IMAGINE_PICS]XV_VMS53.EXE

	Steve.

    
    What are the rest of you Imagine users using for text. I converted the
    CMR font that comes with Interfont over to Imaginr format this weekend.
    The interfont program allows you to type in words,and then render them
    as objects fot Turbo silver. I simply did each letter seperately, and
    saved tem as an object. Did not take long at all. I needed a few
    characters but figured I'd do the whole alphabet in upper case(don't
    know if lower case is supported). The results were good,and they
    imported directly in Imagine with no problem. CMR looks like a very
    clean garamond font. I plan on trying other options tonight ie:bold
    etc. 
    								bill

    I've used Interfont and also Pixel3D.  I type the text that I want
    in dpaint3 then use Pixel3D to create the 3D font from the 2D 1
    bitplane IFF.  I've used colors also but the resulting object gets
    rather large.  Pixel3D is an excellent IFF to 3D object converter.
    
    mark

    When I wanted to put rings around my planet I used the Dpaint III,
    Pixel 3D combo. I foind it easier than building rings in the forms
    editor. I noticed that with Pixel 3D I had to filter the objects
    through turbo Silver, but InterFont loades directly. I do think that
    Interfont gives a little cleaner look, but you don't have the variety
    available that you have with the Combo. BTW I called Syndsis and they
    told me they were getting ready to release their High End modules.
    The AutoCad converter lists at $395.00, Wavefront at $495.00. I did not
    get a price on the Imagine, LightWave converters.
    								bill

    Speaking of the Forms editor, Steve Worley, the keeper of the Imagine
    mailing list on USEnet wrote a couple of very good tutorials on the
    Detail and the Forms editor.  The Detail editor tutorial is pretty
    basic(with a more advanced one to follow) but still worth the read. 
    The Forms editor tutorial is excellent!  There are even IFF diagrams of
    the various stages of the examples, and complete projects.  If you use
    Imagine or thinking about buying it both are a must have.  I have a
    copy of both also they are located at 130.127.8.1(hubcap.clemson.edu)
    in the /pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/TUTORIALS directory.  E-mail me if
    you would like a copy.(don't want to hassle with 'ftpmail')
    
    Did Syndesis say anything about their Imagine module?  I am hoping that
    the color information will be retained when converting to Imagine
    object format.  It doesn't retain it when using the Silver conversions.
    
    mark

    No mention of color retention in the Imagine converter, actually this
    converter is still in the works so a call may influence this factor.
    I noticed that if you trace an object in Pixel 3D an load it into turbo
    silver the colors are retained, but if you click on color after the
    load the info is flushed. I am not sure about Imagine. Was it
    interchange that did not do the color conversion or was it Turbo
    Silver? I'd like to think that this would be fixed for Imagine.
    							bill 

    Syndesis is on People/Link so I will drop them an e-mail.   
    
    I know that when you pick a multi-colored object(i.e. individual faces
    have attributes) then pick color in OBJECT mode, the individual faces
    will lose some if not all their attributes in Turbo Silver.   If I knew
    that an object had face attributes I didn't touch the color settings
    unless I was in FACE mode.  Imagine doesn't appear to have this
    peculiarity.  
    
    When I run an Interchange process, Scale for instance, the status box
    states that it is writing color information to the scaled object but
    upon loading it into Imagine ALL color information is lost.  I have
    loaded objects created in Silver into Imagine with no information loss.
    In general, if I use a utility that creates Turbo Silver objects I
    usually run the object(s) through Silver before using them in Imagine. 
    Just in case.
    
    mark

Steve good work.  It looks good on a Mono VaxStation also.

CUBE_1280_X_1024.GIF makes a nice background.

    I remember reading somewhere about upgrading from Sculpt-4D to Imagine,
    something like: the manual cover + $$$ = Imagine.  Does anyone know if
    this offer is still valid?
    
    John

    I haven't seen anything like this in the mailings from Impulse. I
    vaguely remember something from a long time ago, but I would suggest
    you call Impulse because I can't remember ant details. I would expect 
    that any offers like that have passed over the dam. Imagine is selling
    well, and third party textures,maps are becoming available. Add to this
    Byte by Bytes's lack of commitment to the Amiga market(seems all energy
    is going to Macintosh) and we have a situation where Impulse has no
    reason to offer any specials. Even if Byte by Byte ports their Mac
    software back to the Amiga it may well port back the Mac price $2500.00
    which would kill the product. 
    								bill

    To those whom I sent the Detail and Forms editor tutorials.  I will
    upload tonight(~1900pst) the example IFFs that go with the Forms editor
    tutorial.  They REALLY help with the explanations in the tutorial, plus
    the IFF with the dolphins is pretty neat.
    
    mark

    I have on my desk two new products that complement Imagine. They are
    Surface Master, and Map Master. They are put out by Computer Imagery
    which is driven by Louis Markoya. These products are Tutorial in
    nature, and wiil be of value too anyone that is interested in Mapping,
    and texturing in Imagine. At first glance they promis a lot, After
    getting them home,and running the Director Film that is used to present
    the example screens I said"Thats it!). Well That wasen't it. The way it
    is set up is you have a screen that fives you the ability to pick which
    surface, you are interested in. That pic will give you a representation
    of how the different attributes effect one another(each screen has
    12-16 rendered spheres. This gives you a way to quickly determine how
    a given change would affect you objects. 
    			Surface Master  $34.95
    	This package covers all the settings under the attributes and the
    textures offered by Imagine.(no new textures are supplied). The manual
    is an attractive pamphlet of 15 pages. Each attribute,and texture is
    covered. These are referenced to the pics that are supplied on disk.
    Of course all the texture, and attribute setting are made available
    to allow you to recreate the tutorial pics. This is recommended because
    they said a lot is lost when they converted the pics to low res ham.
    	This is a quick way to become at least aquainted with the powerful
    textures,and attribute combinations supplied by Imagine. For example
    there is a blurb on the wood texture, but it is followed up by the
    suppiled textures that will generate 16 different varieties of Wood.
    Oak,birch,mahogany etc. Even experianced user of imagine could gain 
    insight from this package. Given Louis Markoya's 3 years experiance
    in Amiga Graphics mostly in Turbo Silver it is no wonder that I come
    away overwhelmed by the knowledge presented in this package.
    
    			Map master	$69.95
    	At twice the cost you get three times the info supplied in Surface
    Master. Map master is a collection of Fourteen high res,professionally
    scanned Organic Images. Cells,Leafvein, Thorns and Osage Orange are a
    few. These are all grey scale images specifically chosen to be used
    with Imagine's Altitude, reflect,and filter mapping. Color mapping is
    discussed but not to the extent of the others. The 24 page manual is
    packed with great data. Aside from the main body of text their is a 
    section that shows each scanned image, and suggest how it can be used.
    For Example the BUBBLE image when color mapped will maintain the depth
    of the image, when reflection mapped the pattern looks like the
    refracted image of light in the bottom of a swimming pool. This goes
    on to discribe the effect if alttitude mapping ect. Given the unlimited
    mix of renderings offered ty Imagine, and the added variations offered
    by these images we have a package that will guide us for a long time to
    come. 
    SO WHILE I WAS AT FIRST THINKING "THATS IT" I AM NOW WONDERING HOW TO
    BEST APPROACH DIGESTING THE INCREDITABLE AMOUNT OF INFO THIS BASE ALLOW
    YOU TO ACCESS.
    								BILL  
     

    I am trying to map a brush to a sphere. The brush is the "Two Circles"
    from profills. It is just a repetitive brush of overlapping circles.
    Now when I do the wrap,and view the backside I see a small gap where
    I want the brush to meet. Reading the Map Master manual it recommends
    that the axis of the brush be centered on the Z of the object, just off
    the left side of the image,and size the X axis all the way across the
    object until it just barely extends past the object. I have never
    edited an axis in Imagine(hard to believe huh). Now I want to know how
    editing the axis will change the wrap. If I simply select the brush in
    attributes and select scale local Z is this the same as editing the
    Axis, or do I need to do something else to edit it ? It seems scaling
    the brush alone will not eliminate the gap. I am wrapping in color
    mode.
    								bill 

    You've got it right.  Just make sure you are in LOCAL mode not WORLD
    mode or the scaling will return to its original position.  This is also
    true in ANY editor Wrapping a sphere is kind of tricky.  I've haven't
    done it yet but I think it is described in the textfile I uploaded from
    Mike Halvorsen of Impulse.  If you do not have it let me know.
    /u
    
    md
    

    Mark,
    	 What I ended up doing was I actually redid the brush in dpaint,and 
    then loaded it. While not the most perfered method it worked. I guess 
    I'd better start saving for an 030 card soon. Another problem I ran
    across was;
    	After I had the brush mapped I rotated the sphere no problem. Then
    I decided to change the Ambient light in the globals. Every three
    frames I'd change the color. I generated the animation overnight and
    what I got was this. The color shift went great, but my sphere kind of 
    sits and quivers, with a slight sideways shake. now I prepared the
    files at System Eyes(wrapping) but did not render an animation except
    to build 10 frames (easier to view it as opposed to rotating in the
    editor). So I may be faced with the brush on the sphere hitting the
    light etc just right so as to appear not to be moving. I have animated
    several no problems until now. I will chane the frame count, and try
    again. If not successful I'll try a constant in the global setting.
    at any rate this is fun stuff even if a bit trying on a stock 2000.
    								bill

    I remember, when I had my A500, waiting 4 days for an animation to
    render using Silver.  And the render was screwed up.  I had to do it
    all over again.  I believe an accelerator is a must if you want to
    render using the available 3D programs.

    Hello all.
    
    I just had a couple of very basic questions about Imagine.  First,
    what does it produce?  I know you get 3d animations and such, and I
    assume the output images can be made IFF, but what about the
    animations?  If I made a C program and wanted an anim made with
    Imagine to be part of it could it be accessed?  Or are the animations
    in some foreign format that only a ``movie''-type player will play?
    
    Thanks!
    George
    

    Imagine has the ability to output to the standard amiga animation
    format, and it's own special format. The program can output stills
    in manymant different formats including IFF Hires,and Ham.
    							bill

Following is a piece I cut from the stuff Mark Davis sent me.
    
	Steve and I have been working on the TTDDDLIB, as you know.
With Release5, we are now able to load in Turbo Silver objects with EXTR
objects in them and embed these objects into the main object.  What does
this mean?  Now, you can load these objects directly into Imagine with
no problems.

	What does this also mean?

	I can now release the Steam Engine that I created to you all.
Big deal?  It was for me.  It took a *long* time to create this object,
and a long time to create a short animation with it.

	Here is the README file I have included with the archive I have
placed on hubcap.clemson.edu in:
pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/OBJECTS/SteamEngine.lzh

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

				SteamEngine

		Created by, and Copyright 1991, Glenn M. Lewis

			Created with the aid of TTDDD


	This steam engine is a replica of the locomotive in use at Disneyland,
Anaheim, CA.  It took over two hundred hours to create (at which point I lost
track).  With it, I created a short animation (with the help of Tomas Rokicki,
who offered to render the frames on his accelerated Amiga system... thanks, Tom!)
with Turbo Silver.

	I used my TTDDD package (which can be found on ab20.larc.nasa.gov
[128.155.23.64] in one of the subdirectories... take a look at FILES.Z for the
exact location) to assist me in creating the complex object.  TTDDD is shareware,
which you can register with me for $10.00.  What better place to put in a plug
for my Textual Three Dimension Data Description package!?!

	Steve Worley and I have recently been working on an addition to the
TTDDD project... TTDDDLIB.  With Release 5, I converted this Turbo Silver object,
which included EXTR (external) objects, to 100% compatible Imagine format,
which has no EXTR objects.

	I have also included a PostScript preview of this object, also created
with the new TTDDDLIB.  Check out hubcap.clemson.edu [130.127.8.1] for the
latest revision in the pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/TTDDDLIB directory.

	You may use this object or any of its parts in any manner that you wish,
provided that you give me, Glenn M. Lewis, and TTDDD full credit for the creation
of this object in a place that can be seen by anyone viewing this object or any
of its parts.

Glenn M. Lewis
[email protected]

    	Mark Thompson dropped by System Eyes last night with a copy of the
    Locomotive,and TTDDD for me. He also bought a tape with him for the
    store. It has Two animations ,and several still images he has rendered
    in Lightwave. I left the disk home but will try to get the stuff
    uploaded for the weekend. I Imagine(sic) that TTDDD is the latest
    version because it has the Locomotive object on the disk. Mark ended
    up getting Pro-Textures after viewing the clouds image on the Toaster.
    I have used them in Imagine, but just barely. We spend a lot of the time
    comparing Imagine to LightWave, and how to get effects into Imagine
    that are not standard. Problem is it all goes over my head at some
    point so I can't pass it on. One feature he uses a lot is Edge
    Diffusion.(his animated logo uses this) and he says you can't get this
    effect in Imagine. I plan on trying though.
    							bill

Here's a transcript of my ftp session to acquire the SteamTrain mentioned 
in .-1. As you can see, it's on it's way to the net...

john


> ftp hubcap.clemson.edu
Connected to hubcap.clemson.edu.
220 hubcap FTP server (Ultrix Version 4.1 Mon Aug 27 12:10:05 EDT 1990) ready.
Name (hubcap.clemson.edu:wjg): ftp
331 Guest login ok, send ident as password.
Password:
230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
ftp> cd pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/OBJECTS
250 CWD command successful.
ftp> type image
200 Type set to I.
ftp> ls
200 PORT command successful.
150 Opening data connection for /bin/ls (130.215.24.1,1543) (0 bytes).
SteamEngine.lzh
TARDIS.lzh
TARDIS.readme
TronTank.lzh
TronTank.readmeok?
Vista_objects.lzh
Vistaobs.txt
aircar.lzh
aircar.readme
chesspieces.lzh
chesspieces.txt
imagineobs.readme
imagineobs1.lzh
imagineobs2.lzh
imobs3-5.Readme
imobs3.lzh
imobs4.lzh
imobs5.lzh
markLWob.READM
markLWob.lzh
robot-cop.lzh
robot-cop.readme
transport.lzh
transport.txt
226 Transfer complete.
371 bytes received in 1.3 seconds (0.29 Kbytes/s)
ftp> get SteamEngine.lzh
200 PORT command successful.
150 Opening data connection for SteamEngine.lzh (130.215.24.1,1581) (410252 byte
s).
226 Transfer complete.
local: SteamEngine.lzh remote: SteamEngine.lzh
410252 bytes received in 73 seconds (5.5 Kbytes/s)
ftp> get Vista_objects.lzh
200 PORT command successful.
150 Opening data connection for Vista_objects.lzh (130.215.24.1,1642) (62100 byt
es).
226 Transfer complete.
local: Vista_objects.lzh remote: Vista_objects.lzh
62100 bytes received in 13 seconds (4.8 Kbytes/s)
ftp> bye
> ls -l
total 487
drwxrwx---  2 wjg           512 May 22 14:55 IQP
-rw-r--r--  1 wjg        410252 Jul 26 08:22 SteamEngine.lzh
-rw-r--r--  1 wjg         62100 Jul 26 08:23 Vista_objects.lzh
-rw-r--r--  1 wjg          5665 May 22 15:02 ab20.list
drwxr-x---  2 wjg           512 Jan 26  1991 bin
-rw-r--r--  1 wjg           349 Nov  1  1990 default.DECterm
drwxr-x---  2 wjg          1024 Feb 13 08:51 iqp
>
> uuencode SteamEngine.lzh <SteamEngine.lzh | mail [email protected]
> uuencode Vista_objects.lzh <Vista_objects.lzh | mail [email protected]
> ^D

    What program do I need to see the Steamengine animation ?
    
    thanks
    	Mike

    The SteamEngine I have,(believe it is same as this one) is not an
    Animation. It is an Imagine object. You have to load it into Imagine
    and render it. I looked at the object but don't have time to trace it.
    With a 68000 system I need to leave it running when at work just to
    render the dungeon items I am playing with. I can't afford any 030
    addons at the moment. maybe someone with a 33mhz 030 could render
    the SteamEngine and post the data here ?
    						bill 

    
    	re .51
    
    	I'll start rendering the steam engine tonight.
    
    		Steve P.
    

    I am atill vague on the matter of dealing with axis's. How do you move
    an Axis in relation to its object ? At times I'll go to the detail
    editor ungroup an object, change an attribute,and then save it. When I
    go back into the stage editor the object is all over the place, but
    still one object. I think it has to do with how my axis are placed.
    	I also have a hard time when it comes to sizing objects in relation
    to the surrounding area. ie: I want to get closer to an object,but
    still get it all in the screen(field of view?).
    							bill

    To move an Axis interactively use the 'M', 'S', and 'R' commands.  i.e.
    use CAPITAL letters to move the AXIS and SMALL letters to move the
    OBJECT interactively.  If you SCALE an Axis interactively, you MUST be
    in LOCAL mode for it to "stick" when you save the object.  If you SCALE
    an Axis interactively in WORLD mode the Axis will remain scaled while
    you are in the editor but when you save it will revert to its original
    size.  You may also use the TRANSFORMATION requestor to scale an AXIS.
    Just click on the AXIS ONLY button.  Remember that all Rotation(s) is
    done on the Axis.  An Axis placed 'off-center' from an object can
    create some interesting rotational effects.
    
>   At times I'll go to the detail
>    editor ungroup an object, change an attribute,and then save it. When I
>    go back into the stage editor the object is all over the place, but
>   still one object. 
    
    If I have a grouped object and want to change an attribute on an object
    in the group, I go into the DETAIL editor using OBJECT mode, rather
    than GROUP mode, pick the object and do what I want to do, save the
    OBJECT, go to GROUP mode and save the GROUP with the modified object. I
    have found that, although the Imagine documentation says that it
    reloads the objects when you enter the STAGE editor, sometimes Imagine
    will show in the STAGE views a 'composite object' (a blend of the new or
    modified object and the object of the same name that was saved when
    leaving the STAGE editor) when reentering the STAGE editor.  AND 
    sometimes when I render the scene with the 'composite
    object' the rendering shows the old object or the 'composite object'
    not the modified or new object.
    I am now in the habit of deleting the old object in the STAGE editor
    and reloading it.  A pain at times but it ensures that the new object
    is integrated into the scene. <---this was more of a problem in Imagine
    v1.0 than v1.1 but it sometimes still happens.  Impulse is aware of it.
    
    re: sizing objects to the surrounding area
    
    Try changing the focal length of the camera using the sizing gadget in
    the ACTION editor along with resizing the object in the stage editor. 
    As with a true camera you can create 'fish eye' and 'perspective' views
    by changing the camera focal length. (although Impulse has not
    implemented depth of field, yet-it can be simulated using a paint
    program or an opaque plane).  There is an ART to getting your world to
    resemble in Imagine what you envision in your mind.  
    
    If you want I can post your questions to the 'mailing list'.  You can
    be sure of numerous replies.
    
    mark

    Mark,
    	Thanks for the input. I took time to view "Imagine the
    Possibilities" yesterday. It of course had a section with working with
    Axis's. It is a good tape, and helped a lot. Imagine is so awsome that
    I tend to miss some very basic stuff, because I am always in a hurry.
    	I to tend to reload the entire object now. This is ok but as I
    progress to the cycle editor I forsee problems. It has to be a
    combination of how I group my objects,and their axis relations. It
    almost appears that I do forget and move in world mode within the stage
    editor and then when I modify an object in the detail editor, and
    return to the stage editor the group gets scrambled, or disjointed.
    								bill

    I was having a hard time getting a brush to map on a sphere. It
    appeared that I could never get the brush to meet on the back of the
    object. I called impulse, and seemed to be doing EVERYTHING RIGHT.
    I was ! problem:
    		When i made the image I was in dpaint. I save it with the
    command strip visible. The part of the screen under the command strip
    was not filled with the pattern, and showed in the wrap as what
    appeared in the wrap as an "open". Impulse said "F___ the image. Go
    into dpaint low res, draw a thick red line across the screen, and map
    it. If the problem is still their call me back, You may be seeing part
    of the image". Well that was it ok. Impulse is not the nicest people to
    talk to but they will have the answers. I guess they must get a
    thousand calls a day. When I was using SV they said" Forget the manual
    just use the program". This washes ok with an 030 card but hard to do
    on the 68000. I rendered an image as System Eyes last night in a few
    min., while rendering it at home 6 hours got me 55% done this morning.
    								bill  

    You are right about Impulse's support.  They all should take a class in
    interpersonal communications or just plain communications, but they
    will answer your question(s).  How is the tape?  Does it cover the
    cycle and forms editor?
    
    mark

    Mark,
    	The tape is pretty good. It goes into the cycle editor but not
    all that much. I've ran it a few times but never get to sit through
    the entire tape in a setting. It did a nice bit on making a twisted
    ribbon, the mapping, textures are covered pretty well. It shows some
    of the object editor but not a lot of detail. The tape moves very fast,
    and jumps around but every time I watch it it gets better. some of the
    stuff I still need to view again before I will understand it. There
    was a bit on scaling up the whole world to reduce rendering time by
    half ,and such that eluded me. 
    							bill

    Thanks Bill,
    I had heard that the tape gave a LOT of information in a short period
    of time.  I will probably pick it up.
    
    mark

(Message inbox:539)
Return-Path: DECPA::"[email protected]"
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 12:14:56 -0700
From: DECPA::"[email protected]" (Sandy Antunes)
To: imagine%[email protected]
Subject: Imagine Compendium version C (new!) now on ftp

Hello!  Well, the latest compendium of postings from this news group,
collected edited and indexed, are now availible from hubcap and ab20.
I'm appending the Intro and Index for full details.  Comments or
requests, as always, may be emailed to me...
                              sandy
-------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]     Sandy Antunes, El Loco d'Waupelani
  it's 2am... do you know what time it is?      -------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
			The Imagine Compendium, version C
				(8/27/91)

          ImagineComp: General articles, posts, and miscellany

   	     edited by Sandy Antunes ([email protected])

========================   INDEX   ==========================================
(new entries are in lowercase, old (version B) entries are all capitals)

a. Intro to this edited compilation, by myself (Sandy Antunes)
b. Intro to the Imagine mailing list, by Steve Worley
c. Comment by Colin Stobbe
1.      Accelerating a Rotating Object, by Jim Lange:
2.      ANTI-ALIASING (and the jaggies), by Steve Menzies:
3.      ATTRIBUTES- fixes, by Dave Schreiber:
4.      ATTRIBUTES- LIST, by Steve Worley:
5.      ATTRIBUTES-some sources for, by Mark Thompson:
6.      ATTRIBUTES- set to zero, by Dave Schreiber
7.      Avoiding Intro pic, by Duane Fields:
8.      Avoiding Intro pic II, by Steven Webb:
9.      BACKDROPS/FRONTDROPS, by Steve Worley:
10.     BAR COMMANDS, by Jim Lange:
11.     BEVELLED EDGES I, by Steven Webb:
12.     BRUSH WRAPS I, by Bill Squier:
13.     BRUSH WRAPS II, by Mike Halvorsen:
14.     BRUSH WRAPS III, by [email protected]:
15.     BRUSH WRAPS IV, by Scott Sutherland:
16.     BRUSH WRAPS V-- a corrosion brush wrap, by Matt Feifarek:
17.     BRUSH MAPS, by Steve Worley (a treatise on the subject):
18.     BUMP MAPPING, by Udo Schuermann:
19.     BUMP MAPPING II, by Sean Schur:
20.     BUMP MAPPING III, by Mark Thompson:
21.     CAMERA FOCAL LENGTH, by Richard Nollman:
22.     CAMERA FOCAL LENGTH II, by Udo Schuermann:
23.     Changing World Size II, by Udo Schuermann: 
24.     Clouds and Fog, by Marc Rifkin:
25.     Complex Models, by Steve Worley:
26.     CYCLE/DETAIL GROUPS, by Helge Egelund Rasmussen:
27.     Extruding along a path, by Sean Schur:
28.     Filter Brushes, by Udo Schuermann:
29.     Fracture, Split, and Taut in Detail Editor, by Steve Worley: 
30.     GLASS- The Art Of Glass, by Steve Worley:
31.     LASERS & SPECIAL EFFECTS I, by Sandy Antunes:
32.     LASERS AND SPECIAL EFFECTS II, by Edward Chadez:
33.     Light Brightness, by Steve Worley:
34.     Light Placement, by Don Whitaker:
35.     MERGE, by Steve Worley:
36.     METALS, by Mike Halvorsen:
37.     METALS II, by Mark Thompson:
38.     Mirrors, by Steve Worley:
39.     Morphs, Mark Thompson:
40.     Movement control, by Steve Menzies:
41.     PATHS I, by Stephen Menzies:
42.     PATHS, by Steve Worley and Rick Rodreguez:
43.     Planets made by Imagine, by Steve Worley:
44.     QUICKER RENDERING, by Steve Worley:
45.     RENDERING TIMES, by Stephen Menzies:
46.     RESIZING (AND AVOIDING SPIKES), by Scott Sutherland:
47.     RETRACKING THE CAMERA, by ???????:
48.     ROTATING, by Udo Schuermann:
49.     Shadows on mapped surfaces, by Steve Worley:
50.     SKIN, by Kevin Goroway:
51.     SLICE I, by Kevin Goroway:
52.     Slice II, by Colin Stobbe;
53.     SNAPSHOT I, by ?????:
54.     SNAPSHOT II, by Scott Sutherland:
55.     Starfields I, by Matt Feifarek:
56.     Starfields II, by Juan Trevino:
57.     TEXTURE AXIS, by [email protected]:
58.     TEXTURES, by Steve Worley (a full treatise on the topic):
59.     Wall Paintings, by Udo Schuermann:
60.     Walls I, by Mark Thompson:
61.     Walls II, by Steve Worley:
62.     WORLD SIZE I, by ???????
63.     World Size II, by Steve Worley:

----------------------------------------------------------
(in second part, ImagineAppendix)

  APPENDIX A:  DETAIL TUTORIAL (by Steve Worley)

  APPENDIX B:  FORMS TUTORIAL (by Steve Worley)

  APPENDIX C:  VIDEOTAPE
    i) dumping to videotape
    ii) comments on dumping to videotape
    iii) more comments on dumping to videotape
  APPENDIX D:  CENTAUR TAPE:
    i) review
    ii) second review
  APPENDIX E:  SURFACE MASTER
    i) Advertisement
    ii) Review 1
    iii) Review 2
    iv) Additional Details
  APPENDIX F: TTDDD (an excellent shareware package).
    i) getting coordinates with TTDDD.
    ii) making threads.
  APPENDIX G:  WAY COOL PROJECTS
    i) extruding picture
    ii) rolling sphere
    iii) 3-D font
  APPENDIX H: Credits and email addresses

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
a) Introduction to this compendium, by Sandy Antunes:

	Hello.  Welcome to the third version of the Imagine Compendium.
This collection consists of postings to the imagine mailing list, and is 
clearly at book length at this point.   It is an edited, indexed, and
condensed subset of the 621,681 byte (compressed!) complete archives
which are availible in their entirety at hubcap.clemson.edu.  It represents
many people's suggestions, advice, and ideas.  This posting is freely 
redistributable except that it may not be sold or distributed for profit.
I have tried to keep citations of the original authors with each posting.
However, I have edited many of the postings, most notably in taking out 
chunks of intro header, quoted earlier postings, and .sig files (and a bit 
of spelling errors).  I take responsibility for any muddling of information
this may cause.  Neither I nor the original authors are liable for damages, 
however-- you use this collection at your own risk. :)
	If anyone notices an error or an incorrect citation, please email me 
([email protected]) so that I may change this for future versions.
Also, if you want to take over this editing project for future years, please
let me know, as I am entering my thesis work and may not have time to keep
this up.
	In general the latest version will be posted to abcfd20.larc.nasa.gov
(128.155.23.64) in the /incoming/amiga directory and to hubcap.clemson.edu
(130.127.8.1) in the /pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/TEXT directory, under the
name ImagineComp##x.lzh, where ## is the year of that edition and x is the 
version: a,b,c, etc. I will announce when a new version is posted to the 
imagine mailing list.  I do not expect to update this terribly frequently, 
perhaps every few months.
   	There are two sections, kept seperate to make reading easier.  The
compendium is lharced to save on space and make distribution easier.
The main body is "bread and butter" Imagine advice.  The second section
contains the appendices, consisting of Steve Worley's Detail and Forms 
tutorials, imagine-related topics and projects, as well as a list of 
contributor email addresses.  All material should be current with the 
latest release of Imagine 1.1.  The Index is exactly like the respective 
section headings, so you can use grep, editor searches and the like to skip
through this document.  ImagineComp.91b headlines (the previous version) 
are all in upper case; the newer entries are lower cased.  Therefore, if you
merely wish to update your version, attack this at will with a text editor
to cut out the reruns.

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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 15:07:46 EDT
From: Sandy Antunes <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <9108271907.AA01448@astrod>
To: imagine%[email protected]
Subject: Imagine Compendium version C (new!) now on ftp
    

    The human head object that everyone has been gushing about on the
    Imagine mailing list is now located on EOT::[upload].  There was no
    readme or .doc with it.  The filename is HumanHead.LZH.

    
    
    I made an animation with the Earth rotating around the Sun and the Moon
    is rotating around the Earth.  During the animation, the Earth rotates
    around the Sun once and the Moon rotates around the Earth once.  I
    would like to have the Moon rotate around the Earth several times while
    the Earth only rotates around the Sun once.  Is there a way to make an
    object rotate around a path more than once without repeating the
    animation?
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    -Todd

    Hel(p!/lo),
    I'm a great fan of imagine and very interested in those TUTORIALS
    mentioned in .60.
    
    BIG QUESTION, How can i get those lovely pieces of art into my account?
    
    (You must know, i'm within the DEC-Structure, but only since a few weeks)
    If anyone out there in the galaxy could explain to me how to get into
    those foreign systems (is 'hubcap.clemson.edu' a UNIX way of giving a 
    computer a name??) or mail me the TUTORIALS, I'd be very greatfull.
    
    Ave, Frank.
    

�    (You must know, i'm within the DEC-Structure, but only since a few weeks)
�    If anyone out there in the galaxy could explain to me how to get into
�    those foreign systems (is 'hubcap.clemson.edu' a UNIX way of giving a 
�    computer a name??) or mail me the TUTORIALS, I'd be very greatfull.

    ImagineComp91C.lzh is available on EOT""::AMIGA:[UPLOAD] as well as on
    CRISTA""::AMIGA:. If you're still stuck at this point, give a yell and
    I can unpack the archive for you and mail it to you.

    I won't pretend to understand the naming conventions on the internet or
    usenet or whatever the heck it is, but a dir/title=ftp will give you
    all you need to know and more about getting stuff from them seemingly
    far-away places. If you really need to know more about what lies on the
    "other side" of the EasyNet, check out the "Gateways To Other Networks"
    conference (UPSAR::GATEWAYS). While searching this conference, take a
    peek at note 4749.* and keep FTPMAIL in mind when you read some of the
    older ftp topics. If you find yourself still lost after absorbing all
    the good stuff this conference has in it regarding ftp, drop me a line.

    Pete

    Hi, Does anybody know whether/when Version 2.0 will be released.
    I'm hoping on a more stable system than 1.1.
    (the guru isn't my best friend you know :*(
    
    Ave, Frank
    
    P.S. Are you all rendering frames or just not interrested in Imagine
         anymore?

    I'm working with imagine on a daily basis. I can't recall ever having
    seen a guru with 1.1 . I am now using 2.04 workbench. I have been using
    InterFont to do logos lately. 2.0 is supposed to be very close but it
    looks like a $100.00 update. I read where you will be able to do smoke,
    fog, fire etc so i am very excited, and looking for the release of 2.0.
    I am running 9 meg, with a GVP controller so I am not sure why you see
    the guru.
    							bill

    I, too, use v1.1 and have NEVER had it GURU on me either.  Are you
    running background 'utilities' while running Imagine?  I have a 9meg
    A2000 and have rendered scenes that used ALL except 948 bytes(as
    reported by the workbench screen) of memory.  If the system runs out of
    memory while rendering or loading scenes Imagine will leave part of the
    scene un-rendered or quit with a 'out of memory' requestor.  I have
    heard of others having crashes while using Imagine but cannot remember
    the circumstances.  You might look in the Imagine mailing list
    compilations.  How much graphics mem do you have?
    
    md
    

    
    I really don't care about fog.  If Impulse doesn't get it together and
    offer an ARexx port to script object creation and the action editor,
    I'm staying with 1.1.
    
    Do you realize how infuriating it is to create intricate mathematical
    objects by first using my calculator to find the pointsm and then
    entering them by hand, and then the edgesm and then the faces? 
    Ridiculous!
    
    I've almost been tempted to go back to Sculpt 3D...at least you could
    script.
    
    Mike

    re. .67
    I've got an A2000 with 1 Meg-chip-Ram, A2630 with 2Meg-Fast32-Ram and
    A2091 with Quantum LP52S.
    (I'm hoping to get another 2 Meg for my 2630 and 2 Meg or my 2091 this
    weekend :*)
     
    I'm currently running 2.04 from disk 'cause of the 2630-Rom-update.
    (after a complete startup, this leaves me with only 900 Kb-Chip and 1
    Meg-Fast32)
    
    I don't have any problems rendering frames, they only show up when
    switching from e.g. the detail-editor to the project-editor, or some
    functions (only sometimes) within the detail-editor.
    
    It might be the shortage of memory wich causes the problems, who knows
    
    Thanx for your quick responce, it's nice to get some reply's
    Ave, Frank Ederveen
    
    P.s. It's nice to know there are still some people using/reading this
         conference.

    re 68. 
    	Their is a script program in the pd. it is called TTDDD. It was
    developed by a man named Glenn Lewis. I think their is a good chanch
    of some rexx support in 2.0 . I don't think it will support the
    functions you are looking for. I'd rather have the ability to make
    smoke, fog, glows etc than a scripting ability. I probably don't
    have the know how to take advantage of script capability at this time
    so I look for the other good things, I can do.
    								bill

    re: .68
    TTDDD by Glen Lewis is what you are looking for.
    
    md
    

    Is it on a Fish Disk?  If not, can someone point me to it or upload to
    EOT?  I'd really appreciate the info!  Gosh it would help me out!
    
    Mike

    Re. 67:
    Are you using the Turbo-Version (ImagineFP) ??
    Well, i am and have lots of guru's, Maybe the standard version is
    better written?
    I will try using the non-turbo version for a while to see if it is less
    buggy.
    Does anybody know what that will do to my performance??
    (i could take a few percent speed decrease, but not to much :-(
    
    Ave, Frank

    Yes, I am using ImagineFP.  I have an A2000 with a 33Mhz GVP A3001
    accelerator, 4meg 32-bit mem and 4meg 16-bit mem, and a 50Mhz FPU.
    I am using Imagine v1.1.  I usually run Imagine with MINIMAL background
    tasks as they tend to slow down rendering.  But even with all my
    'usual' background tasks running it has never crashed on me. (just
    slows down everything and eats up all my memory :).  I do not know if I
    mentioned it but some folks on the Imagine mailing list were
    complaining of Imagine crashes also.  They were given some suggestions
    or troubleshooting hints.  I suggest you look in the mailing list
    'compendiums', which are on EOT:: (I, think) for ideas or solutions.
    
    md
    

    What did you guys pay for imagine1.1?
    Here (the Netherlands) it costs +/- $225,-
    Is that muchmore/less than in the US or UK?
    
    Ave, Frank