Conference hydra::amiga_v1

	You would be swapping some things.  If you use the command file
	"install floppy" it would put all the libs and headers onto one disk.
	Then if you boot off the boot disk I think that's pretty good but then
	you wouldn't have the source disk anywhere, and you shold save your
	source to disk frequently for when you crash (you could use a rebootable
	ram disk to help preserve the source during a crash).  So that's a
	swap.

	A hard disk is not the ideal.  It is an expensive, electromechanical
	flakey less reliable way to go.  With 3 Megabytes of memory the
	entire SAS C 5.1a system (that you need really) can be loaded into RAM:
	or a big RAD: and there is about a megabyte left for you to work in.
	This configuration will compile faster than a hard disk, of course.
	A third floppy drive is an alternative to teh memory.
	It is probably possible to load something into a 1Mb system, say
	just the compressed headers or just the libraries but you would still
	need the other disk for the remaining piece.  Also some commands 
	are not on the boot disk (the profiler, optimizer, grep, etc.).
	
	But your system would at least do it.  Get memory before hard drives.
	Tom

    re: -.1
    
    Tom, just think of how many "flakey less reliable" hard drives you rely
    on just to enter this note.  :-)  A brand new hard disk from a
    reputable manufacturer should provide years of trouble-free service.
    
    However, I agree with Tom's advice.  You already have the second
    floppy.  More memory will give you a greater performance boost than a
    larger drive.  Of course, an Amiga with both is heaven...
    
    Wes

    Is there any other alternative to Lattice C which would not need so
    much resource?
    
    I realise that this will mean a reduction in functionality, but I think
    I can live without the optimizer, disassembler etc. But will need the
    debugger, editer, *.h and libs. etc.
    
    Rgds, Les

    Yuo don't need to use all the functionally of the SAS product if you 
    don't want too. The only other product would be the manx complier. I
    think that the Lattice product is the better way to go. you don't
    need to run the optimizer until you want to. the utilities like grep,
    touch ,wc etc are nice to have above and  the compiler product. 
    							bill

Actually, there are alternatives other than Manx and Lattice. Depends
on what you want to do.

PDC is an ANSI-ish PD C compiler that supports the SAS libcall pragma. It's
on Fish disk #351. DICE is Matt Dillon's shareware C compiler, on disk #466.
GCC has been ported, and is floating around somewhere (oops - forgot, we're
talking minimal system, not A3000 - skip that one). Zc is on disk #314. There
may be others out there.

These won't let you do Amiga-specific programming (at least, they shouldn't)
because CBM wants a license before they'll let you distribute the
Amiga-specific include files and link libraries. However, there's enough
there to play with them. The registered vesion of DICE does have the
include files and libraries you want.

CCLib on disk #399� provides the stdio environment if the compiler you chose
doesn't have it.

	<mike

    There was an article in one of the Amazing Computing issues giving tips
    on setting and using Lattice/SAS C on a floppy based system.  I will
    look up the article and post the issue #.
    
    mark

    It is called, "Programming in C on a Floppy System", Yes even a stock
    A500 with a 512K RAM expander", by Paul Miller, and is in Volume 5,
    No. 9, September 1990 of Amazing Computing.
    
    mark

    re .5 
    	I just got the Amiga World Tech Journal, and DICE is on the disk.
    I realized that there are PD compilers out there ,but I don't consider
    them a viable alternative to the SAS compiler. were talking apples,and
    oranges here! While they are all C compilers they vary vastly in how
    they support the Amiga specifics. When the original requester asked
    about Lattice I got the impression they were looking for a compiler
    that would support coding on the amiga at the level the SAS product
    supplies. Of course I am not a programmer, but this is why I bought
    the SAS package. I figured I'd have a hard enough time learning "C"
    as it is without haveing to stumble over the possible pitfalls that
    exsists in the PD compilers. If I had to go PD I'd most likely opt
    for DICE because of matts track record. I have had courses in several
    languages, and a PD compiler for most of them might have attracted me.
    	My dabbling with the "c" language,and following the threads on
    usenet when I bought my 1000 made it clear that not all "C compilers"
    are created equal. I have talked to many many people that after
    struggling through the PD compilers came around to buying lattice, or
    Manx, others just plain quit. I feel that the SAS package makes 
    programming in C as palatable as it gets ! 
    	Sorry I neglected to mention the "other alternatives" but then look
    again at the varied discriptions in note .5

    I am in the process of teaching myself C using DICE and VAXC.  I do not
    expect to ever be an expert but so far with a good self teach manual I
    am making headway.  I do not know the cost of Lattice but DICE is
    $50.00.  That plus a small hard disk is probably close to the Lattice
    price.
    
    So far I like DICE a lot more than VAXC.
    
    
    Alan
    

re .8 & .5

I meant to point out in .5 (but forgot) that any of the C compilers
can do Amiga-specific programming. You have to call CATS and order
the AutoDocs & Includes disk, which has the include files & libraries
you need. Last time I checked, that was $20. You get the same stuff with
it that you get from SAS, Lattice or DICE (bugs reported in those include
files generate a "We can't fix it because of the license with CBM" response
from SAS).

I do agree that C programming with SAS 5.10 is about as palatable as C
programming gets. If you're going to be doing a lot of it and aren't
very proficient before you start, then DICE is the only non-commercial
alternative.

	<mike

    re:4600.7
    
    I am located in Ayr, Scotland and no one here believes Amazing
    Computing has reached this part of the known universe?
    
    Could someone please send me a hardcopy of "Programming in C on a
    Floppy Sysytem" by Paul Miller ,Amazing Computing Vol5,No.9, Sept'90.
    
    My mail stop is Les Talbot @AYO.
    
    Alternatively can someone review the article and write the highlights
    to this note?
    
    Thanks in advance, Les
    
    ps- Thanks for the contributions,to date, which have been made to my 
    original note.