Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    While we are on the subject of display enhancers, I too am in the
    market for one.  The thing that confuses me about choosing one is the
    output of the enhancer.  I guess what I really want to know is what
    guidelines do I use to purchase a monitor for the enhancer.  Do the
    different enhancers output different horiz scan freqs?  If I were to
    buy the FF(or one of the others) would I need a monitor that has a 
    15-30Khz scan rate or 30-50?  What about an interlace vs non-interlace 
    multi-scan monitor, VGA?  Anyone own the A2320?
    
    mark

    I believe I have the monitor end of the question sorted out.
    
    Standard Amiga RGB output is 15KHZ. Any of the display enhancers
    mentioned output 31KHZ. If all you want to connect to is a display
    enhancer, then a VGA monitor will work fine. If, however you want
    standard RGB output, then you can keep your standard Amiga 1084
    connected to the RGB output and use a VGA on the enhancer output, or
    use a multisync (15KHZ -31KHZ at least) with a switch between outputs.
     I believe the Mitsubishi Diamond scan (1641??) or the NEC Multisync 3D
    both provide the proper frequency range in question. I don't see much
    reason to use the RGB output once a display enhancer is installed, so
    the VGA monitor would provide a cheaper solution. I personally am
    opting for a multisync in case the day ever comes when I downgrade to
    an IBM clown.
    
    Regards,
    Murray
    

    Having just gone through all of this myself, I can offer some
    observations...

    Unless you find a "fire sale" deal, the Flicker Fixer may be at the
    high end of the price range by the time you add the DEB and genlock
    options.  I don't know whether it will be compatible with the new
    display modes in the enhanced Denise chip.

    I got the Flicker Free Video.  It does work quite well, but I'm not
    entirely happy with the physical characteristics of plugging this
    board into the Denise socket.  Clearances are very tight, it tends
    to bump into various components on the motherboard, making it a
    real bitch to get fully seated into the socket.  And all those tiny
    pins are extremely fragile!

    My recommendation would be to go with the Commodore A2320 unless you
    really *need* the video slot for something else.  There are many good
    genlocks that do not have to be installed in the video slot.

    A VGA monitor works just dandy with any of these boards.  I'm currently
    using a Zenith 1490 flat screen VGA (on loan), it looks great.  From
    a scan of current advertisements, it appears that multisync monitors
    are selling for about $100 more than VGA monitors of similar quality.
    And there are very few with the range to handle standard Amiga RGB
    scan rates (15KHz).

There's been lots of nattering about the 2320 on USENet. The most common
complaint about it (vs. the Flicker Fixer) is that it passes the 1/2 line
at the very top of the NTSC image, creating a flickering line at the top
of the screen. The FF apparently doesn't pass the line. The solution is
to set your overscan to not use the top line.

As for monitors, I believe that a VGA monitor can't handle all the new
video modes. I've as yet to run into anyone who had a use for the any
that a VGA monitor wouldn't handle, though. I opted for multisync on
the hypothesis that monitor technology isn't changing as fast as the rest
of the system, so it should last through several systems, some of which
might benefit from multisync vs. VGA.

	<mike

    re:.4
    
    think of a multisync as a monitor designed for change :-)
    
    One thing to consider - in the ibmpc market there are VGA cards that
    do more than the "standard" VGA graphics modes.  To use those extra
    modes you need a multi-frequency monitor.  Higher resolutions with
    more colors need faster refreshes.  Someday CBM may decide to actually
    ship a graphics card that will support those resolutions/colors for
    Amigas (not just for CBM pc clones).  How much extra would you pay
    for that potential in a monitor?  $100 $200 ...  And how about
    composite video input so that you can use it with video or as a TV
    monitor.  A real must have for a multimedia system.
    
    The new battle ground is resolution - how does a multisync monitor
    rated at a max of 800x600 handle 1024x768?
    
    But to get back to the original question - I'd go for the CBM display
    adapter and do the genlock externally.  Two reasons, (1) Flickerfixer
    doesn't do PAL, (2) the CBM display adapter is based on how it is done
    in a 3000.
    
    Dave  

    With these configurations how can I feed a composite video signal out to
    a VCR? 
    
    I'm guessing that if I get both multi sync and RGB outputs, that I
    could attach the A500 RGB/Video adapeter to the RGB port.
    
    
    ... Rich

Re: .6

>    With these configurations how can I feed a composite video signal out to
>    a VCR? 

You answered your own question.  If you have an RGB to composite or RF
encoder, just hook it up the the RGB port as usual.  The FlickerFixer-
like display enhancers have their own ports, and do not alter the
output of the normal Amiga RGB port.

For example, I have an old C Ltd RGB to composite converter that I
use for video work at the same time I have a VGA monitor attached
to the FlickerFixer port.  The builtin Amiga RGB port outputs
interlaced video at the same time the FlickerFixer port outputs
deinterlaced video.

The only think that may not work is genlocks that attach to the RGB
port.  Genlocks work by feeding a sync signal into the Amiga RGB port
that controls the timing of the Amiga video hardware.  The MicroWay
FlickerFixer is not compatible with this unless you buy a daughter
board for it.  The newer FlickerFixer-like cards from other companies
do not have this drawback, I believe.

    Hi,
    	I have a A2320 and a 1950 multisync monitor.
    
    I have chosen the A2320 because it was the only one that I was sure
    that would work with the ECS chips and version 2 .
    It uses the same logic that Commodore use in the A3000.
    
    To make it work you will need a true multisync monitor as the
    horizontal frequency is 31.468 Khz in NTSC and 31.25 Khz in PAL.
    
    The output connector is a DB15 and, there is a bypass switch to bring
    back the output at the regular horizontal frequency.
    The installation is very easy, you insert the board in the video slot
    connector and install a copper grounding clip to the side of the 
    power supply for ESD purposes. Next, the card comes with a diskette
    that has 3 different patterns for ajustments. You do the adjustments
    with a plastic screwdriver on a potentiometer in the back of the card.
    
    So far I am very pleased with the A2320.
    
    The 1950 is another story though. It took 3 different monitors to
    finaly find one that was acceptable. The quality control on these
    monitors is zero !. The first one had a bad supply that would cause the
    brightness of the screen to change, the two others had a bad
    adjustment on the yoke and the screen was crooked by almost 1/2" from
    top to bottom.
    After running out of monitor at my dealer I finally decided to open
    the last one and fix the yoke !!!!.
    
    If you indeed want to buy a 1950 try it and triple check it before 
    brying it home.
    
    Hubert.
    

    re: .4
    
    I have a 2320 and a NEC multisync II, I do not see the 1/2 line
    filckering problem mentioned on Usenet.
    
    But there are 2 things that I do not like.  The first is not really
    a problem with the 2320 but with the NEC.  Then NEC provides an
    adjustment to expand the displayed area vertically, but not
    horizontally. So even overscan does not quite reach the edges of the
    screen.  The second is a Commodore acknowledged problem that results in
    certain color pallete values being displayed as the exact same color on
    the screen.  There has been a good deal of discussion about this on
    Usenet.  A Commodore representative did describe a fix that required
    replacing some resistors on the board. I just heard about this and I
    will be contacting the dealer about it in a day or two.
    
    Other than this problem I pleased with the A2320.
    

    Hi,
    
    What does a 2320 cost??
    
    Glenn

    I sat in on the installation of a a2330,and a 1950 moniter at the
    dealers yesterday. At first it looked like a serious problem had
    arisen, but it was a jumper setting on the motherboard. However in
    the process of of figuring this out I came across the following
    	The A230 will only work on A2000's that have the two layer board.
    It will not function properly on the other multilayered boards. It
    then said you could identify which board you have by looking at the
    board lable on the lower left. It should read B2000-CD(think it was CD)
    If not you can't use the A2330. This is directly from the manual that
    come with the product. I thought it would be nice if this warning was
    on the outside of the box. I haven't checked mine yet,but lately I 
    haven't been feeling lucky, so I put it off. After the installation
    we ran Professional Page,and it was really nice. I noticed no problem
    with the moniter while I was there. 
    							bill 

    The A2320 sells for $299. at both SYSTEM EYES and OMNITEK.
    
    P.S. Thanks for all your replies. It looks like I'll be picking up a
    A2320 from SYSTEM EYES before the week is through.
    
    Regards,
    
    Murray

re .11

What's the max overscan workbench you can get with the A2320?

With the Flicker Fixer I can get 700x470 ( I think - I'll have to check!)

john

    
    
    Get a A3000 and you get a VDE built in. A DIGITAL DECStation VGA monitor
    works just fine.(Also on loan.)
    
    Shaun - (The proud new owner of a 3000!!!)

    re -1
    	Nice thought, but it exceeds my budget my about $3100.00 .
    I'm glad that your enjoying it though. If you want to unwind and
    play a game Anarchy plays well on the 3000. I was very suprized,
    and pleased to find this out.
    	Back on track, I liked the a2330 I saw installed at system eyes
    but because of the supergen 2000s I can't go this route. This leaves
    me with the Flicker Fixer,and deb combo, or FFV. I am not sure if this
    is a good time to go messing around with DEB because I don't know what
    lies ahead with the Extended chip set. I did not mind adding the PA,
    but really hesitate to lay out the bucks for FF,and Deb without knowing
    more than I do. 
    								bill

I went ahead and took the plunge.  I bought a A2320 and a 1950-B monitor.    
Overall first impressions are good.  Keep in mind I have been running on a
VT241R in interlace mode for the last three years.  The colors on the 1950 
are not as crisp as the VR241.  But I can now use colors on my workbench 
instead of shades of grey to reduce the flicker.  

The entire installation did not take more that 20 minutes.  It is pretty
straight forward.  I did not need to do the adjustment procedure to tune 
the A2320 my monitor.  This procedure is also pretty easy and consist of
displaying 2 pictures and adjusting a fine tuning control until all Pixel
jitter goes away.  If you have the Newer ECS then there is a third picture 
to display and adjust.

The reasons I picked the A2320 is:

1.  Compatable with WB2.0 and ECS if I choose to go that route.
2.  Price $259.00 made it cheaper than the Flicker fixer and ICD's product.
3.  I can switch between NTSC and PAL with out any problems.  I usually run 
    PAL mode for the larger display size.  But when I need to do Video work 
    I have to switch to NTSC for the A520 and the VCR to work correctly.

I picked the 1950-B over a Seiko that they had on disply simply due to the fact
that it handles Overscan with out placing a border around the picture.  The
1950 in overscan stretches the display out to the edge.  Again this would make
Video work easier and give you a better over all view of the picture.  The only
down side is that the 1950 is only .31mm dot pitch.  The 1950-B went for 
$599.00 this was comparable with most mail order multisync monitors that I
could find.

The A2320 documentation (pg 15) mentions the following monitors as compatable 
for those wishing to shop around.

NEC Multisync and MultisyncII
Mitsubishi Diamond Scan
Zenith ZCM 1490 (NTSC only)
Taxan Multivision
770 Plus
AOC Multisync CM-314


The dealer also threw in a set of A10 speakers.  Not a bad deal ($35.00) for a
low end sound from an Amiga.  A real stereo amp does sound better.


    Alan
    the eye strain is gone!
      
   

  

    I also have an A2320.  But mine is attached to a NEC Multisync II,
    while I do like it there is a bug in the board.  After I bought the
    board there posts on Usenet that talked about the 666 777 color
    problem. I checked mine an it also has the problem.  The problem is
    that certain different RGB color values are displayed on the screen as
    the same color.  I used Deluxe Paint, set one color in the palette to
    RGB 666 and another color to RGB 777, and the 2 colors on the screen
    appeared identical.  You may want to check it out. 
    
    A rep from Commodore did admit to the problem on Usenet, and that
    changing certain resistors on the board would correct it.  I hope
    that Commodore will officially admit the problem and fix the bad boards.

    re: "Zenith ZCM 1490 (NTSC only)"
    
    I'm currently using a Zenith 1490 (very nice!) with my Flicker Free
    Video.  It seems to work just fine in PAL mode.

Re: .17

>    A rep from Commodore did admit to the problem on Usenet, and that
>    changing certain resistors on the board would correct it.  I hope
>    that Commodore will officially admit the problem and fix the bad boards.

I'm pretty sure that I read that it would be fixed under warranty if
you take the board to an authorized repair shop.  Commodore doesn't
ever seem to send out notices on such things.  You have to know to
ask.

    re: .19
    
    I have talked to the dealer where I purchased the A2320, a couple of
    weeks ago.  He said he has not received any word from Commodore, and
    the last boards he received still had the wrong resistors.  So with the
    fact that the warranty is a for a year, I will wait a month or so and
    see what happens.
    
    What is the source of your info?

    .17 Thanks for the hint.  Mine must be fixed there is a differance
    between a 666 RGB value and a 777.  
    
    .18  I just copied what it had in the book.  I should have said
    something like I am not responsible for the contents.....
    
    

Re .20

About a month ago, a Commodore employee stated (in the USENET hardware
newsgroup, I believe) what the problem was, that the dealers were
being informed what the needed change was, and that the repair would
be done under warranty.

The problem could just be that the CBM Service Technician Report with the
info hasn't made it out yet.