Conference hydra::amiga_v1

It has been in stock at my local dealers(Nashua N.h.) since last tues. He had
ordered all he could get,and was not sure of the reordering date. So
while available it is in demand. I'd call before sending my check.
FWIW I don't think 29.00 is a very good price for mail order,you can get
it at the dealers for 32.00. no shipping,or waiting
							bill

I picked up both I,and II this past weekend. I was a little disappointed with
the character editor. I was hoping to use some iff pictures as input but the
editor only allows editing the exsisting pics. I haven't had a chance to start
the game yet. It looks like I will be busy for quite some time. A friend said
II was harder than the original Dungeon Master. 
							bill

    I started playing, pretty good but pretty hard.
    
    I guess I'll need more hint, but for the record here is what
    I got from Fred Fish 431..
    
    Hit <return> if you want to cheat.
    
    
    
  --- Chaos Strikes Back (Dungeon Master II) ---
  (cheat)
  Find a dragon and cast MON ZO GOR SAR and hit ESC to pause the game. Hold
  down the ALT key and type in LORD LIBRASULUS SMITHES THEE DOWN. Unpause
  the game and slay the beast. He leaves behind a firestaff and your party
  will be invincible.
	  Undocumented Spells:
  GOR IR KU   - Detects Monsters
  GOR IR ROS  - Detects fake walls and "invisible" (actually hard to see) pits
  GOR IR DAIN - Detects "magic" on screen?
  ZO IR NETA  - Anchors the map at the point of casting so that as you move 
		around, the map view stays at the anchored position.

  (hint #1)
  It's _REALLY_ easy to kill _ANY_ dragon.  Here's how.
  1) Prepare all your players with MON IR VEN spells (mega poison cloud)
  2) Use the green freeze life box (on the dragon)
  3) Cast the spells, and then double up on each player
     (ie. each player casts 2 spells for a total of 8)
  4) Wait... dinner will be served soon.


  (hint #2)
  Using the Vorpal Blade:
  If you don't have both Vorpal Blades, you can increase #hits/time by
  passing the weapon back and forth between the two attacking players.
  (ie.  hit -> pass blade to #2 -> hit -> pass back to #1 -> hit ->...
	  (hint #3)
  Contrary to what I've read on the net, everything is affected by
  fireballs, including knights and dragons.  The only exceptions are
  slime, black flames, and the thing that pops up from the floor.
  George Lin a309@mindlink
  uunet!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!George_Lin
    

    Hi,
    
    Chaos Strikes Back - that the extra 5 levels disk which needs DM to
    run; am I right?  I was thinking on this one, but it seems to be more
    of the same type of stuff DM was. Are the graphics the same? For 7.99,
    I'm not expecting miracles, but it would be nice if something was
    'thrown in'. I believe that there is a character editor. Is this true?
    
    Dave
    

    Re:.4
    
>    Chaos Strikes Back - that the extra 5 levels disk which needs DM to
>    run; am I right?  
    
    Wrong: it is a totaly independant game, it only require knowledge 
    of "how" DM 1 runs.  DM 1 doesn't need 5 more levels to run! I finished
    DM1 completely, without "5 extra levels"??? OK!, I used the hints in
    this notefile, but what the heck! I won anyway...
    
    >I was thinking on this one, but it seems to be more
    >of the same type of stuff DM was. Are the graphics the same? 
    
    Yes, but there is more/different monsters and more/different treasures
    to discover. Starts pretty hard too.
    
    > For 7.99,
    >I'm not expecting miracles, but it would be nice if something was
    >'thrown in'. I believe that there is a character editor. Is this true?
    
    	For $7.99, whow! I must've got burnt, I paid close to $30.00 + S&H
    Are we talking about the same thing???  and Yes there is some sort of
    character editing, although I kept  my original DM 1 characters as I
    was used to them.
    
    I am not sure, but I think you are talking about the Dungeon Master
    editor.  It is NOT the same thing. This is a genuine FTL game.
    
    
    Vince.

I tried most of the "cheats" and I got one good of of 6...
Not too good cheats.

>  Find a dragon and cast MON ZO GOR SAR and hit ESC to pause the game. Hold
>  ...
MON ZO GOR SAR returned a "useless spell" message, I wasn't in front of a 
dragon but it doesn't look too good.


>	  Undocumented Spells:
>  GOR IR KU   - Detects Monsters
That one just CANNOT work. GOR and IR are ont the same "level" and cannot
be spelled in the same cast.

>  GOR IR ROS  - Detects fake walls and "invisible" (actually hard to see) pits
same as above...

>  GOR IR DAIN - Detects "magic" on screen?
Same as Above...

>  ZO IR NETA  - Anchors the map at the point of casting so that as you move 
>		around, the map view stays at the anchored position.
That one works at last...!

>  It's _REALLY_ easy to kill _ANY_ dragon.  Here's how.
>  1) Prepare all your players with MON IR VEN spells (mega poison cloud)
                                        ^^
the "mega poison cloud" is MON OH VEN, not MON IR VEN, did not verify
the whole procedure, I haven't met any dragon yet.

	 I don't know where these guys took their spell book, but
probably not from FTL, the DM makers.


Also, I found that the DM1 "Monster confusion spell" (OH Kath SAR) is not
working any more. (Replaced by the ZO IR NETA above?)

I am working on DM2 maps, but it will take me quite some time, I can't
always figure out what level I fall, or get zapped, or get "transmogorified"
as Calvin and Hobbes would say!

Vince,

P.S: If any body figure out what are the "detect monsters and fake walls"
     please post it here.
    

    hi,
    
    re-.2
    
    
      When I said 7.99, I was talking sterling, not $$$.
    
    I was in the local games shop and saw CSB. It said DM 1 *WAS* needed
    and CSB was 5 new levels. I think there must be two versions of this
    around. Has any UK adventurer got this 'full' version, or is this copy
    I'm looking at a different game altogether?
    
    dave.
    

    
    As I heard it, CSB was originally going to be 5 new levels and require
    DM to run. However, FTL were doing other things at the time and when
    they got back to CSB/DM, they decided to make it into a full standalone
    product, and not just a DM add-on. And the original price was going to
    be around the 7.99 (pound sterling) mark. I dunno if any of these early
    CSB versions got released, but there sure was a load of hype (specially
    for the ST version).
    
    Steve.
    

    re -.1
    
    Yep! they were released!
    
    dave.
    

I got a chance to play CSB for a little bit before my system was swiped out
from underneath me.  The version of CSB that I got is standalone -- you CAN
play using only the disks provided.  However, during the course of playing
DM, I built up some characters to some fairly healthy levels and was able
to transfer them to CSB.  Unfortunately, only the character traits and levels
transfer.  When you start in CSB, you are naked and surrounded by a more
viscious version of the purple worms from DM (they are gold colored).  Suffice
it to say that it is much more "challenging" than DM.  I suspect that I will
be looking for spoilers as soon as I have a system to run this on again.

Dave

    About the curent release, the version I have is "standalone" don't
    require DM 1 to run and show "Version 3.1". You DO need DM book to
    know the spells etc... impossible to play if you haven't play DM 1
    
    I have no idea how many levels there is but when changing level,
    the floppy sometimes remains silent and when zapped to "Chaos knows
    where?" it is much harder to map levels.  Fortunately, in the room
    where the game starts, if you are fast enough to pick up a gold coin
    and open one of the dead end corridor (the one in front of the one
    that requires 2 coins, you will find a magic scroll that let you see
    a 7 x 7 map of whatever surrounds you.  The ultimate in mapping...
    
    Also: I found a dragon and tried the "cheat spell" mentionned before,
          I got eaten alive then burnt so fast by the dragon that my
          "cheat sheet is still smoking".
    
    May the flees of ten thousand camels infest Chaos' arm pits.
    
    Vince.

    I have worked on and off on this game,
    
    I have completed 2 floors and half to a quarter of a few more.
    I created the maps using DPaint3.
    
    Anybody interrested to help "us" finish the mapping? or correct
    any mistakes?
    
    Let me know if you want the, "so far", unfinished maps on the net...
    
    	Vince.

    Vince,
    I have mapped a ton of this dungeon. I can photocopy and send you what
    I have. I've completely mapped the warrior section, ninja section and I
    think all of the priest/cleric section. I've only managed one corbum
    piece into the ful ya pit, though. :-)
    Ron

    I uploaded some portions of the dungeon maps on
    TAPE::AMIGA:[upload]CHAOS_STRK_BCK_MAPS_V1.LZH
    They are Dpaint3 editable.
    
    Make sure the grill icon is set 12 x 12, by default it is 8 x 8.
    
    Vince.

    
    Back to the "cheatsheet" mentionned previously,
    
    Here are the corrected "real spells"
    
    First: In DM V1, "Oh Kath Sar" was a monster confusion spell
    	   In CSB, it does not exist anymore.
    
    Second: Oh Gor Ku ; is the detect monster spell if you have a magic map.
    	    Oh Gor Ros; is the detect fake wall and invisible hole trap.
            Oh Gor Dain has something to do with the map but I haven't
    	                quite figured it yet.  Anybody know?
    	    Zo Ir Neta; is the "anchor map at point of spell" it works
    	                but what use is that?
    
    A last question: Does any body know for sure how many floors
    there is in that game?
    
    I have done about 80 to 90% of the bottom 6 floors, but there
    are still sections that are unaccessible or I don't know how
    to get there.
    
    Vince.

My son says that there are 10 floors and he has the DPAINT maps
for them... 

/pekka

    re: -.1
    
    Hi Pekka,
    
    Thank you for the answer, is it possible for you to upload
    the maps or tell me where did he got them from?
    
    Thanks again, 
    
    Vince.

    re: -.1
    
Vince

>    Thank you for the answer, is it possible for you to upload
>    the maps or tell me where did he got them from?
    
	CHAOS_MAP_TEN.LZH are the maps and spells on TAPE.
	The origin of the maps is unknown. My son(the other one)
	got them from his friend and he got from his ...and
	finally from some(name not known) BBS. But the local
	game magazine has published the maps for a while ago. I 
	have not crosschecked but I hope the uploaded are
	good enough.

pekka

    Hi,
    
    Just spent the entire weekend playing CSB. I must say it's good! I'm
    using my characters from DM and despite their strengths being less than
    those in the CSB hall-of-fame, I've survived thus far. I have questions
    and a couple of hints for those interested.
    
    1) In the room with the berserker axe, DON'T pick it up until all the
    knights are dead. To kill them, attack them one at a time using hand
    weapons and not magic. I had two 3rd level Master Wizards constantly
    pushing out level 6 fireballs to no effect. Once all the knights are
    dead, picking up the axe will automatically close the portcullis door
    at the maiin entrance to the room. It will also open up a secret
    passage where one of the knights used to be.
    
    2) Killing Dragons is easy if you keep cool. Fireballs and hand weapons
    work well and the amount of time spent is well worth the amount of
    dragon steaks you get. The dragon below the diabolical Demon director
    is good for food but nothing else. The dragon on its own level has a
    key which is needed and also some tasty armour. Plus, after dispatching
    a dragon, everything else is EASY!
    
    3) The fire pits next door to the DDD are worth crossing as the
    sapphire key lies that way.
    
    
    
    One question, I only have one 1st level Master warrior - how do I kill
    four knights at one time. I have gotten myself cornered by these
    nasties (give me a dragon any day!). Anyone managed this?
    
    cheers dave 
    

    I purchased the official hint book this weekend. I haven't finished
    the original DM yet but I have Chaos Strikes Back just waiting.
    	The book said that the four ways each favor a different type
    of power. One you will need to use brute fighting because spells will
    not work, while another is just the opposit. I haven't read all that
    much but I have to say it is a well done piece of documentation. The
    maps are well done,and it lists several spells that are not in the
    original DM. It stated on the back of the book that a single charecter
    finished the game in six hours and never died. I think this may well be
    the case but he was probably controlled by the person that wrote the
    book. This book is well worth the 12.95 purchase price,and makes a nice
    addition to the game. It also stated that you can walk down a hall turn
    around and end up somewhere else than where you first started down the
    hall. I did boot it to see how it looks,and the worms quickly killed me
    off, but I will probably be able to get by them next time.
    							bill 

    Hi, 
    
    Where can I buy this book in the UK. Price? ISBN? title?
    
    cheers dave
    

Hi,

My son would like to know about those MANA-points. Do the opponents
have those too and if they loose them sometimes and 
their ability to cast spells at the same time?

/pekka

    re .21
    	When I purchased the game it came with an order form for the hint
    book. I never sent it in, but happened to see the book at my dealers.
    There is no isbn number on the book. I can try to find the order form
    I had but that is a long shot. 
    	from the copyright notice
    		Software Heaven inc.
    		P.O. BOX 71049
    		San Diego, CA.
    		92171
    	p.n. (DOC. 103, rev. B) 
    The book is published by FTL directly. I guess they figured if money
    was to be made on hints that they might as well get it.
    								bill	
    

    	Your MANA will increase as you cast more spells. If you were to
    rest then you would have full MANA up to the limit that you have earned
    so far. However I was reading the book and it stated that eace of the
    four ways favors a different skill of the Champions.
    	KU- favors the fighter
    	ROS - Favors the Ninja
    	NETA - the way of the priest
    	DAIN - the way of the wizard.
    	While magic may still work on the KU path their will be times when
    only weapons will help you. Maybe your son is on the KU ,and this makes
    it appear his mana is not working.
    								bill 

    Hi,
    
    Don't waste time using magic on knights; sure the experience is good,
    but these toughies are impervious to magical attack. I recommend that
    if you are about to play, use your characters from DM - while their
    stats are lower, their skills are higher. We played with characters
    from the prison and got battered, but using the DM characters, we have
    carved up dragons, knights, hell-hounds and golems with little
    trouble..
    
    I don't think that the monsters recouperate after being attacked. Also
    I don't think the have a mana limit per se, rather a set number of
    attacks before having a pause.
    
    cheers dave

.24 and .25

Thanx!

And a minor hint after CR.

/pekka the messenger



At level 3  you have put the mummies to the small rooms.Then
there is the corridor and a illusionary wall. THis wall is not marked
in the maps I uploaded. Go through and turn a couple of times.
The wall behind will dissappear and you will find some items.

/pekka

    I uploaded the maps (all 10 floors), and they are quite acurate,
    but hard to read and I already found some errors and some (very
    few) missing sections.  Anyway, I am curently merging the maps
    I started with the information on those maps and I will upload
    them soon.  
    
    Also, the spells in that file are still missing the 3 maps
    spells. My file have the 3 spells included. 
    (on tape::amiga:[upload]chaos_*v2.lzh
    

    re -15 possible mild spoiler
    
    	OH GOR DAIN is in the bookas "Show Magic *" 
    	ZO IR NETA IS "DIVINE WITNESS *"
    
    * MAGIC MAP SPELLS.
    We are looking at 16 priest spells,and 13 Wizard spells.
    as an aside I was playing DM last night,and cast a MA potion. it has
    the symbol of a triangle in the bottle. I haven't seen any mention of
    it in any hints so far,and cant tell what it does. I know it used BRO,
    so it must be a priest spell. will try tonight,and then have someone
    try in chaos.
    							bill

    RE:-1
    
    Bill, Thank you for the answers,
    but What is "Show magic" do? where and how is it used?
    show what magic?
    
    Is "Divine witness" a hint?, I know this spell anchor the map,
    I have tried it, but haven't found any use for it yet.
    
    Also, you are saying 16 priest and 13 wizard spells,
    I only have 15 priest spells, are you counting the monster
    confusion spell?.  I know it doesn't work anymore in CSB.
    (Oh Kath Sar)  If you have 16 can you write your list here?
    
    
    As for the triangle on the bottle, I seem to remember that it
    is the stamina, but I will check tonite and reply if it is not.
    If you drink it your stamina will raise up to your maximum.
    (Your stamina is normally going down if you are hungry or
     thirsty, or tired/hurt)
    
    Look at the maps I uploaded on tape Chaos_strk_bck_V2.LZH,
    I seem to remember I copied all the spells for CSB ( a modified
    version of the original DM spell sheet).  The last symbol of the
    line will tell you what you'll see on the bottle if it is a potion.
    
    In a couple day, I will upload a new version that includes the 10
    level color maps that we just got recently, with some add-on and
    the few errors corrected... including the full Chaos Strike back 
    spells (that I know of).
    	I prefer to work in black/white and hi-res.
    	It will be tape::amiga:[upload]chaos_strk_bck_v3.lzh
    Vince.

    The spells are are listed here. I did not list the power so precede
    each spell with the desired power rating. The "*" are shown as in the
    guide book. I don't really know much about them at this time(not
    playing game yet)
    Wizard:				Priest:
    YA BRO ROS	Magic Footprints	YA		Stamina Potion
    OH VEN	Poision Cloud		YA IR		Shield Spell
    OH EW RA	Thieves Eye		YA BRO 		Shield Potion
    OH EW SAR	Invisibility		YA BRO DAIN	Wisdom Potion
    OH KATH RA	Lightning Bolt		YA BRO NETA	Vitality Potion
    OH IR RA	Light			VI		Health Potion
    FUL		Magic Torch		VI BRO		Cure Poision
    FUL IR 	Fireball		OH BRO ROS	Dexterity Potion
    DES VEN	Poision Foe		OH GOR KU 	Show Creature*
    DES EW	Harm Non-Materials	OH GOR ROS	Reveal Hidden*
    ZO 		Open Door		OH GOR DAIN	Show Magic*
    ZO VEN	Poision Bomb		FUL BRU KU	Strength Potion
    ZO KATH RA 	Zokathra		FUL BRO NETA	Fireshield
    					DES IR SAR	Darkness
    					ZO BRO RA	Mana Potion
    					ZO IR NETA	Divine Witness*
    	*Magic Map Spells

    I noticed that the hint book looks at "Ground Zero" as level 10 and
    going too level 1. I wonder why they reversed the designation in this
    game ? 

    re:.30
    
    Thanks Bill,
    
    I had all those spells, but 2 of them were known as Wizard spells,
    not priest like your book mentions, (YA IR and DES IR SAR)
    I don't know who is right or wrong, but nevertheless, your spells
    and mine matches.
    
    I double checked about the triangle bottle, and indeed it is the
    stamina potion.
    
    Here is a list of the bottles/potion, their function and symbol:
    
    Stamina potion        Triangle
    Magic shield potion   Ya
    Wisdom potion         Dain
    Vitality potion       Neta
    Health potion         Vi
    Cure poison potion    Ven
    Dexterity potion      Ros
    Strenght potion       Ku
    Poison bomb (green)   Ven
    Mana Potion           Bro

    Ok. I uploaded chaos_strk_bck_v3.lzh on TAPE::AMIGA:[upload]
    
    They are my maps that are ever so slightly more complete than
    the original 10.  They also give the location of goodies
    and more details on the dungeon (cracked floor, water, slime
    etc..)
    
    Also included is all the spells and the prison level where
    you chose your heros.
    
    It comes out perfectly on the HP paint jet (DEC LJ250)
    
    There are still a couple section that was not on any of the
    existing maps found, as the top left of the starting floor and
    a few others.
    
    Anyway, if anybody find any error, or way to enter the
    undiscovered zones, please report it there.
    
    
    Vince.

    
    HELP!
    
         I have just uploaded the Chaos Strikes back maps v3. Can anybody
    help me with printing the chuffing things. What format are they? It is
    really driving me wild knowing the junk printed on the local lps40
    could, if I was not so ignorant be the maps I have prayed for.
    
    Yours very hopefully
    
    Chris(lost on god knows what level) Franklin
    

    Those should be IFF hires. Dpaint2 or 3 would print them on your
    amiga printer.  I believe there are ways to convert them in postscipt
    but I don't know how.  Why do you want to have them printed on a lps40?
    I wouldn't mind having a lps40 on my amiga though.. if it could be
    connected.
    
    Vince.

    you can convert the IFF files to Postscript if you have or know somone
    who has the ArtDepartment Professional, This works very well.
    You first load the IFF pic in question into ADPro then convert to Grey
    then output to a PostScript file then transport to the Lps40 system for
    printing. Output quality is very good.
    There may also be PD IFF to Postscript converters but none offer the
    flexibilty and control of ADPro .
    Hope this Helps
    			John Lemoine