Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    
    Friend of mine who went to the AmiExpo in Toronto says January.
    
    Some other stuff will be released around the same time.
    
    Later...
    Steve
    

    My dealer told me that they received a letter about 4 weeks ago that
    V2.x was 'going to ROM' with the version they received (V2.01?). I
    would expect that January '91 would be a good bet.
    
    John

    Thanks,
    
    Just out of interest what does it look like 'an upgrade kit' will
    contain? new roms, documentation and what else??
    
    regards
    k

    Hi,
    
    A sort-of related question.
    
    I have an OLD amiga 2000 with the rectangular Agnus. Do I need the new
    Fatter Agnus for v2.0 or can I get away with using the old agnus? Ths
    is on the premise that I cannot upgrade to the new square chip.
    
    Any info always appreciated.
    Dave
    

My understanding is that a prerequisite for V2.0 AmigaDOS is the full ECS
(Enhanced Chip Set), which includes the fatter Agnus.

Re: .5

I've heard it speculated that the ECS chipset was required for V2.0.
However, I think that this is just a rumor.

I've seen at least two postings from Commodore employees that stated
that the only thing you need to run 2.0 is enough memory.


Re: .4

There is an upgrade for old 2000 model A's.  It is called a motherboard
swap.  Talk to your dealer.  If I was you, I would wait for Commodore
to ship 2000s  with 2.0 and ECS installed, and then do a motherboard
swap to that rev of the motherboard.  My understanding is that the
cost of a motherboard swap is independent of which rev you are going
from and to.

A motherboard swap is expensive: about US$400 to US$500, I think.
However, I paid my dealer about $200 to install the 1.3 ROMS, Fatter
Agnus, and a minor ECO.

If you think that you would like to have a fully current Amiga, the
best time to swap the motherboard is when you would need to make
upgrades to it anyway.

2.0 definitely doesn't require ECS to run. However, there may be features
you don't get if you don't have ECS. CBM may require you to upgrade to ECS
rather than trying to explain this problem to end users.

The most accurate sources that I know of predict that when 2.0 hits the
streets, it'll include replacement documentation, ROMs, and come bundled with
ECS, with a price between $100 and $200. These statements are just rumors,
of course.

	<mike

    Hi,
    
    Pheewww!!!! Not needing the ECS for 2.0 is a relief.. Quotes in the UK
    (from those companies who even showed an interest), were 400-500
    pounds for a motherboard swap. 
    
    dave.
    

As of a couple of weeks ago, Don at the Memory Location told me 2.0
wouldn't be released for the 2000 until March.

	Paul

    March huh? Well at least it will give me time to recover from Christmas
    and saveup for it!
    
    John

    I started using a Nephews Amiga over Christmas and liked what I saw and
    so am considering getting an Amiga. However with all the talk of V2,
    I am beginning to think of leaving it until later in the year and
    avoiding the cost of an upgrade.
    
    Q's:
    
    Will V2 (assuming Kickstart and AmigaDOS) run across the board (e.g.
    on 500, 1500 and 3000 models)?
    
    Will V2 be bundled with an Amiga bought later?
    
    Will later Amigas come with Fatter Agnes chips?
    
    Will all of this change the use of fastmem to chipmem and what will the
    performance impact be?
    
    Sorry if these seem very basic - I am new to this home PC game.
    
    Malcolm (in the UK in case the 1500 is a UK only repackaging of the
    2000)

    Re .11:
    
>   I started using a Nephews Amiga over Christmas and liked what I saw and
>   so am considering getting an Amiga. However with all the talk of V2,
>   I am beginning to think of leaving it until later in the year and
>   avoiding the cost of an upgrade.
    
    V2.0 is VERY NICE, but don't hold off waiting for it.  V1.3 is nice
    too, and best of all it works!  You can get much of the V2.0 look by
    changing your color preferences under 1.3 and using Bruce Moore's
    push-button icons and the "newlook" window gadgets.  As with any other
    major release, some non-conforming software doesn't work under V2. 
    That's another reason to start with 1.3 and upgrade after the dust
    settles.
    
>   Q's:
>   
>   Will V2 (assuming Kickstart and AmigaDOS) run across the board (e.g.
>   on 500, 1500 and 3000 models)?
    
    V2.0 is packaged with the A3000.  A revised (debugged) version of the
    KickStart is supposed to be released in early 1991.
    
    Commodore-Amiga has announced (but not shipped) a V2.0 enhancer package
    for A2000 systems (all models).  Current speculation is that it will
    include the Kickstart ROM chip and one or more of the Enhanced Chip Set
    (ECS) custom chips.
    
    No formal announcement has been made of a V2.0 enhancer for the A500. 
    Commodore-Amiga hasn't yet admitted that the A500 can use the 1MB
    "Obese" Agnus even though that's what they've been shipping for about a
    year now.  They HAVE said that V2.0 doesn't require the full ECS, so
    I'm expecting an A500 V2 Enhancer sometime that simply upgrades the
    Kickstart ROM and assures one has an 1MB Fat Agnus chip.
    
>   Will V2 be bundled with an Amiga bought later?
    
    A3000s already come with V2.  A2000s come with an upgrade certificate
    that can be exchanged for the V2 Enhancer kit when it's made available.
    
>   Will later Amigas come with Fatter Agnes chips?
    
    A3000s come with the 2MB Super Agnus and 1MB of Chip RAM installed. 
    There is also 1MB of socketed Fast RAM and room for 16MB of ZIPs.  When
    one starts installing ZIPs, the first step is to move the existing
    chips over to extend Chip RAM to 2MB.
    
    A2000s come with the 1MB "Obese" Agnus.  The V2 Enhancer kit may well
    upgrade them to the 2MB Super Agnus.
    
    New A500s actually come with the 1MB "Obese" Agnus, though officially
    they still have the 512KB Fat Agnus.  In the U.S. the "A500P" package
    includes the A501 memory/clock board (for a total of 1MB) and activates
    the 1MB Obese Agnus.  A cheaper "A500C" package ships the basic 512KB
    Amiga 500 with its Fat Agnus set accordingly.
    
>   Will all of this change the use of fastmem to chipmem and what will the
>   performance impact be?
    
    You seem to know enough to be dangerous! 8^)  CHIP memory is shared
    between the M68000 CPU and the custom chips, so it appears to run at
    half speed compared to "fast" memory.  In both the A500 and A2000, the
    memory that's installed on the mother board (or on the daughterboard in
    the A500's expansion bay) runs at CHIP memory speed, whether or not Fat
    Agnus can address it.  (This creates the concept of "half-fast" memory,
    if you get the play on words. 8^)  Upgrading Fat Agnus will have no
    effect upon memory speed.
    
>   Sorry if these seem very basic - I am new to this home PC game.
                                         
    You seem to be off to a pretty good start.  Welcome to the Amiga.  I
    made the jump a year ago and have never looked back.  The more you get
    to know about this system, the better you'll appreciate it (clearly the
    converse of my experience with a number of other systems -- both large
    and small -- over the years).

    Minor nit in -.1 --
    
    >[...]  CHIP memory is shared
    >between the M68000 CPU and the custom chips, so it appears to run at
    >half speed compared to "fast" memory.
    
    no, no, NO!  Chip memory runs at twice the speed of the microprocessor
    and graphics chips, so that normally, both can run at full speed. 
    However, the graphics chips have priority in Chip memory, so that in
    cases where there is a lot of graphics activity, such as where there's
    a lot of motion on screen, the processor will slow down.  If you show
    animations or overscan screens (i.e. graphics to the edge of the
    picture tube) then an unexpanded Amiga may appear sluggish.  This has
    also caused problems with hard drive controllers (including the
    Commodore 2090) which were not designed with this need in mind.  An
    A500 owner will have to tell you exactly when and how much things slow
    down, but I doubt it's often a problem.
    
    The solution: buy more memory if you plan to do a lot of animation or
    video work.  (There are other good reasons, too.)  You can set up the
    operating system to automatically allocate Fast memory before Chip
    memory.
    
    Wes

ALL Models? Even rev 4.0 rectangular Agnus?

dave

    re: slowness
    
    I like to think of it as the other way around.  In the past, Amigas usually
    shipped with just Chip ram, no fast memory.  So that makes it the
    normal speed memory to the end user.
    
    If you add more memory to the 68000 bus, it runs at the same speed, but
    because access to it can't be blocked by the custom chips, it appears
    to run faster under some circumstances.
    
    Dave

Ok, a question from those of us still running antique amigas -

Are there any hints that V2 will be made available for those of us running
A1000 systems?  I realize that it takes lots of memory, but I've got enough
(I think) with an A1000 w/2.5MB ram and 100 MB disk...

BobW

    The latest that I hear about V2.0 ROMs is that they are "coming down
    the home stretch" before actual production.  However, this means
    another 6 weeks of production time and a couple of weeks on the boat to
    get over here.  All in all, it looks like another 2 months.
    
    Dave

    Here in Tasmania (Australia) we have a saying called 'be here in two
    Tassie weeks' - which is synonomous for any time span up to several
    months...
    
    kevin

In the for what its worth department:

".info" magazine (March issue I think) said they received their 'final"
WB 2.0 disk the first week of January, and that it should be available in
software and ROM "as you read this" ...

	I spend a lot of time at my dealers,and I haven't seen a 500 or a 2000
come in with 2.0 roms yet. I did talk to a guy that had a 1000 that had seen 
a bootleg copy of 2.0 . a friend of his came by the house with it. He booted it
on the 1000 to see if it ran. It did! then he handed it back to his friend.
	It is sad to see this type of thing going on. If someone really wants
2.0 let them get development status from CBM. The problem is that the attitude  
"well it is going to be released anyway,and I own an Amiga" seems to come into
play here. ME! I can wait for the real package, but I am looking forward to
seeing the first 2000's with 2.0 roms ship. In talking with developers I get
the impression it will be worth the wait.
								bill