Conference hydra::amiga_v1

>    Just moved over to an A2000 from an Atari STe and was wondering if
>    there is a memory board that allows the use of SIMM cards on the 2000?
>    The cards are populated with 1Mb * 1 chips, hence 1Mb per card ?? Is
>    this possible ??
    
	Yup, it is. Several vendors sell such a card; the one I have
	is pretty standard - the MicroBotics 8up! card. It allows the
	use of either 256k or 1mb SIMMs, 150ns or better. Get an
	amiga magazine for the latest and greatest prices.

>    Also, can I attach a '030 card to the A2000 (board rev 4.0) and a
>    flicker fixer??
    
	Again, yes. I've added a GVP acellerator card, which also has
	local 32 bit wide memory. It's important to have local memory,
	otherwise you will not see much improvement in speed. (This is
	from personal experenice). You might check out the for-sale note,
	as I believe the guy I bought mine from might have another one
	for sale. (Just make sure he sends you the mounting brackets :-)
	My A2000 rev is 4.3, don't think 4.0 should be a problem. Anyone
	else have any info?

	The flicker fixer is an easy upgrade. Note that you will need
	a multisync monitor. Also note that you'll need the genlock
	upgrade, if you plan on using a genlock and the flickerfixer
	at the same time. (Something which surprised me!)

    
    By the way, I've seen FlickerFixers for sale for as low as $375 from
    Safe Harbor Computing (see AmigaWorld ad).
    
    As I've said many times before, the FF is the best money I ever spent
    on a computer.  The display is superior to any computer or workstation
    around.  All those little scanlines just dissappear!
    
    Re: Accelerators etc...
    
    If money is an issue and you don't need 25 MHz 030 performance, I'd
    look around for a deal on a used Commodore A2620 board, which has a 16
    MHz 68020/68881 and an MMU to allow you to run UNIX (or AMIX).  The
    2620s are selling used from $700-800, which is a pretty good deal for
    what is essentially an entire 32 bit computer.  The performance is
    about 4X a basic Amiga, with floating point of course being many times
    faster.  As many people upgrade to A3000s and A2630s, the A2620 is a
    good alternative for cheapskates.
    
    I'd also make sure to upgrade your Agnus chip to the Fat Agnus.  This
    will increase your display memory from 512K to 1 MB, which is
    practically a necessity these days.  Cost is approx $100.
    
    Ed.
                         

    Hi,
    
    Advice taken! I'll sell the Ste and keep the SIMM's. Thanks.
    
    Ref : .1
    As a ballpark, what sort of price do 8up boards go for ? (in UK!)
    
    I've seen the memory you're on about, 32 Bit Sram - �300 per 512K -
    phew!!!!!!!
    
    I've seen notes on connecting LK250's to the 2000; what about an LK201?
    
    Cheers, Dave

>    Ref : .1
>    As a ballpark, what sort of price do 8up boards go for ? (in Uk)

	Here in the U.S. a bare 8up! board goes for $159 from Go Amigo.
	(Picked at random, you might be able to do better.)
	Go to your local shop for an amiga magazine, and check the adverts
	there...

>    I've seen the memory you're on about, 32 Bit Sram - �300 per 512K -
>    phew!!!!!!!
    
	Actually, it's not SRAM, just nibble mode DRAM. But it is
	expensive! .2's advice about looking at an '020 board is certainly
	worthwhile.

>    I've seen notes on connecting LK250's to the 2000; what about an LK201?
    
	Probably too difficult - you'd need a dedicated micro to do LK201
	to amiga scan code conversion. There was an article in Circuit
	Cellar awhile back that outlined a project to convert a (mumble)
	keyboard to IBM format. I believe it used a single chip processor
	to do the job. 

							Rob

    hi,
    
    Looks like a can of worms about to be opened, but.....
    
    The reason that I said I wanted an '030 board that I naturally assumed
    that it would outstrip the '020 - is this the case? It seems that many
    people have them (A2620 etc...) So, THE QUESTION IS 'what advantages
    would the 030 offer over the 020 boards?
    
    Would the 020 board work on the rev4.0 A2000 boards? I've read most of
    the notes I could find and have become slightly(!) confused about it
    now.    I think I'll go and lie down.
    
    Dave.

>So, THE QUESTION IS 'what advantages would the 030 offer over the 020 boards?

Speed, MIPS, whatever you prefer to call it.

I've had a A2620 for about a year now, and I've been considering going
up to a '030 board.  However, I decided that I really didn't need the 
extra juice right now.  The 14Mhz '020 is 4+ times faster than the stock 
Amiga, and the 68881 is probably 10 times faster for floating calculations.

It's in the same general ballpark as a VAXstation 3100 (m30) and a PS2/70
(with a 25Mhz '386), so it's no slouch.

If you're in a hurry for power, get the '030.  If you need a decent
increase, get the '020.  For ~$800 you'll get an extra 2M + quadruple
your CPU power.  

With the '040 boards on the horizon, I'll keep using my '020 and consider
upgrading at a later date.  That's providing that I find a need for it.
Of course there's the argument that when the '040 boards come out the
'020s will really drop in price...

my 2 cents,

Steve

* It sure is nice to have a machine that can run a great windowing UI
  without needing mega CPU and memory. 

If you're going to an accelerator card, you might want to reconsider buying
a seperate memory card. The Zorro II memory cuts processor speed by a factor
of two to three if you're waiting for it. You might want to sell the SIMMs
and put the cash towards 32 bit RAM, or check on accelerator cards that use
SIMMs (such do exist). Of course, you may want Zorro II ram for the times
when you're not using the accelerator.

For inexpensive accelerators, try the Imtronics Hurricane cards. I think you
can get a _new_ '020 card with (unpopulated) memory subsystem for less than
$1000. The memory is either 256Kx4 or 1Mx4 paged mode DRAMs, which means
you can buy cheap ($50/meg or so) or large (16Meg on board). They also offer
an upgrade to a 28MHz '030 if you decide you need more oomph or an MMU later.

	<mike

    Hi,
    
    Re .7
    I'm not sure about the SIMM's, I will certainly get an 020 or 030
    board, so selling the 16 bit memory could be wise, BUT 32 bit memory
    sure is expensive. I was under the impression that both 16 and 32 bit
    memory could be used - you know 16 bit for the week and 32 bit for
    Sunday best :-).. Seriously, I was thinking that I could put the
    Kickstart and the libraries in the 32 bit and the rest in 16 bit -
    giving a trade off between price and speed. Is this advisable?
    
    I've tried to find a UK distributor for the Microbotics SIMM 8up board
    - can anyone help?
    
    Would a USA flicker fixer work on my UK A2000 (rev 4.0) - I have a
    TAXAN multisync and would like to explore it to the full.
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    Dave.
    

re:.2

>   By the way, I've seen FlickerFixers for sale for as low as $375 from
>   Safe Harbor Computing (see AmigaWorld ad).

I was The Memory Location today and they had them for $375 too! Plus
Denise Extender and genlock upgrade.

	-SES

re .8

32 bit memory isn't different from 16 bit memory. The memory subsystem is
different (and may be more expensive), but after that, the memory itself
is the same.

The A3000 uses new, high-density chips (1Mx4), which are expensive. But
they're expensive whether you plug them into a 32 bit or 16 bit system.
The best price I've seen on them is $90/meg. On the other hand, the
low density version of those chips are cheap - I bought 4Meg of them
at $50/meg. That's 32-bit wide memory. The Imtronics memory board uses
256Kx4 dips, which should be slightly less expensive. If I recall correctly,
the GVP memory subsystem uses SIMMs, so you might be able to use the parts
you've already got (but they won't sell it to you without memory already
on it, and want $1200 for it).

The other catch is that 32 bit systems tends to have higher clock rates than
16 bit systems, so you have to by faster memory. I.e. - you may have
150ns SIMMs, and need 80ns SIMMs for a 32-bit system. But the local nerds
supermarket doesn't have anything slower than 80ns SIMMs, and those are
$50/meg.

In other words, check the price on memory on your accelerator before deciding
that you can't afford it.

	<mike

    Hi,
    
    I've been looking at the '020 card by Solid State Leisure. This goes
    for �349 including 1Mb of RAM (16bit?, 32bit?) and the 020 itself..
    Why is the 2620 sooooo expensive. Just 'cos of the C= badge on it? Are
    they functionally the same; I've read that early A2000 suffer from a
    DMA problem with the 2620.
    
    dave
     

    
    The Commodore A2620 comes with a 16 MHz math coprocessor and a Motorola
    Memory Management Unit chip, which is required to run the Unix
    operating system.  The A2620 also comes with 2 megs of 120 nS ram,
    upgradable to 4 megs.
    
    In addition, the A2620 allows you to boot your Amiga using the stock
    68000 CPU in case you have a compatibility problem with some games. 
    This is not common, but some games, most notably from Psynosis, break
    under a 32 bit CPU.
    
    I believe the DMA problem you are referring to was a problem with
    Commodore's own SCSI/DMA hard disk controller.  This problem had
    nothing to do with the A2620, nor did it affect the A2620's operation. 
    
    All in all, the A2620 is a superbly engineered accelerator card.
    
    Ed.

    re .12
    Someone this morning has posted a note stating that Solid State Leisure
    has released an improved (and hence more expensive) range of '020
    cards. The 25 Mhz version goes for �599, but I believe that it doesn't
    have afore-mentioned MMU. Is the 2620 MMU only useful for Unix. The
    2620 prices I've seen put it in the �1000 market. Now, the only
    difference seems to be the  MMU as the SSL boards also have 68000
    fallback.
    
    In short, is the MMU worth the extra �400 - especially as the 2620 is
    rated at 16Mhz.
    
    Dave.
    
    

Re the Flicker fixer US/Uk question.

I rang Microway and was told there are two models - one for PAl and one for
NTSC. 

Is a shame because the cheapones from the US are all NTSC and no use to me

ahh well 

regards
k 

    Hi,
    
    A bit of info: MES in Liverpool (UK) are about to release a A2000
    memory board that allows the use of SIMM's - the same SIMM's as ued on
    the Atari STe. Price quoted was #279.00 with 2Mb. Good news is that
    they are selling the Microbotics 8-UP boards off cheap!!!!!
    
    Dave.
    

    re:  <<< Note 4085.15 by COMICS::HOGGAN "No, I am not kidding !!!" >>>
    
>    the Atari STe. Price quoted was #279.00 with 2Mb. Good news is that
>    they are selling the Microbotics 8-UP boards off cheap!!!!!
     
    Any price quoted for the 8-UP board, and should I buy one for my 2000?
    
    Needing more memory,
    Angus

    Hi,
    
    MES are selling the 8UP for #271.00 including P&P and VAT.
    
    If you're interested, phone them fairly quickly as they only have a few
    left.
    
    Dave.