Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    	This makes me wonder where DTV is going on the 2000,3000 computers.
    Will you be able to develop for the baby on a 2000 ? 
    Will the developers stop game,educational software for the current 500 
    	line,and the 2000 line to get on the CD bandwagon ? 
    Will I be able to add the CD to my 2000 ? 
    Will the applications on CD be able to display on the 2000 ?
    Will the 500 still be a viable product ?
    	
    	The step to CD's was an obvious necessity. I just feel CBM should
    have developed it for the 2000 first. I saw not even a hint that
    current amiga users will have the ability to capatilize on this
    product. Just getting into video I realize that if this is displaying
    directly to TV then their may be a compatability problem. I wonder
    how the signal is being generated ? I believe that you will be able
    to run amigados w/AmigaVision on the new system so this is not a
    big issue. Th e issue is will the current amiga line be able to
    use the new software given it can hook up to a CD.
   								bill

    
    re:.0
    
    Nice way they combined "Amiga" and "multimedia" in the same phrases.
    You don't suppose they want to get people to think of Amigas as "oh
    it's that multimedia computer system" :-) 
    
    That system could be a $1000 stereo component style box, or packaged as a
    multimedia computer.  I noticed no mention of harddisk or expansion
    bus, the add-ons all sounded like external things.  So I'm assuming
    that is where the 500/2000/3000 fit in - the higher end systems.
    
    Looks like Christmas will be interesting this year...
    
    -Dave
    

    
    
    
    	Awesome   ( is that realy how you spell it , never mind )
    
    	Me thinks that works out at 3,000,000 pounds sterling and double
    that if you live south of the equator !!
    
    		Christmas !!!! 
    		( Can I come to stay at Christmas )
    
    			- Pete -
    
    

    Does anyone know how the beast will talk to the Amiga ? Serial/parallel
    port ? I'd be curious to hear exactly how this will link up and if it
    will work with my hopefully-not-obsolete trusty A500.....

    
    	The new AmigaWorld has a long detailed story about the new machine.
    I only had time to scan it quickly.
    
    re .4
    
    	The CDROM connects to a SCSI bus and is a standard off the
    shelf unit.
    
    
    		Steve Peters
    

    
    Yes but,
    
    What if they came out with a box for the 2000/3000 that allowed
    you to write these new CD platters?  I hear that tandy is working
    on a read write CD and there are currently worm drives.
    
    

    I hear that SONY have a readable/writable optical disk out now,
    so maybe COM will catch up with the opposition ;-)

    
    Relax, any new optical based drives should be usable by the simple(?)
    expedient of writing a new file system.
    
    Ed.

    re .6
    
    	Tandy is NOT working on a R/W optical CD drive. They are working
    on buying one. The drive is only vapor. Current market projections
    put the R/W CD drive at 2 years away.
    
    re .7
    
    	The SONY unit is one of many R/W optical drives available today
    ( and they are not the best ). The R/W drives can not read or write
    compatible with CDROM. There are at least 3 vendors offering these
    drives for the AMIGA. The drives cost about $5000 to $8000 each and
    the media cost about $350 to $400 each.
    
    
    		Steve Peters
    		Tape/Optical Eng.
    

    The Amigaworld article mentioned that they expected that Amiga CDROM
    drive to sell for about $600, so most might just buy the "Baby"
    instead of just the SCSI CDROM.  Maybe this will will give big boost
    to SCSI networks in the Amiga Market.
    
    Imagine a multimedia component for your stereo system, plus having it
    accessable from your computer.  Next step is to figure out how to hook
    an infared sender to the Amiga so that it can remotely control the
    "Baby".
    
    Re: my previous note   The Amigaworld article did mention an expansion
    box for floppy, harddisk, etc.  Maybe they do intend to replace the 500
    with it...  Or could it be Commodore will finally make a buffered
    expansion box?  Naw, couldn't be.  
    
    -Dave

I vaguely recall seeing IR sending devices for the Amiga, being sold as
"VCR controllers". My memory also said it was for "any IR remote control
VCR", so I suspect it uses the hardware found in the learning remotes.

Sounds like just the ticket for running the CBM CD machine, if it really exists.

	<mike

>I vaguely recall seeing IR sending devices for the Amiga, being sold as
>"VCR controllers". My memory also said it was for "any IR remote control
>VCR", so I suspect it uses the hardware found in the learning remotes.

This is a product of Interactive Microsystems located in Haverall (SP?)
Ma. I have their full product info at home. i requested it because I
am considering using the Amiga as an automated editing system. One of
the first problems we will run into is the Amiga,and baby will have to
be posistioned in a manner that will allow the signals to be passed.
I don't see this as being a setup you would want to "Live" with on
a day to day basis. For all it's pontential at $1000.00 I don't see
the world rushing to embrace the baby on it's release. Of course if
enough CD's (IE:movies) are able to be played,then It will work as 
a laser disk player with extended capabilities. If it cannot serve in
this double function it may take awhile to catch on. Can the baby play
laser disk movies ??
 

<><><><><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><><><><>

 Edition : 2097             Thursday 28-Jun-1990            Circulation :  8308 


 Commodore - Shows Amiga-based CD ROM interactive system
	{InfoWorld, 11-Jun-90, p. ?}
	{Contributed by: Wes Plouff}
   The first interactive CD ROM-based system for home and educational use was
 shown here last week by Commodore International at the Consumer Electronics
 Show.
   The CDTV player contains an Amiga personal computer, minus the keyboard and
 floppy disk drive, which will be available as options, Commodore said. CDTV
 will be available September 1 for under $1,000, said Nolan K. Bushnell,
 general manager of Commodore's recently formed interactive consumer products
 division.
   Enthusiasm for CDTV came from developers of Compact Disc-Interactive
 (CD-I) applications, which have been frustrated by the protracted rollout of
 CD-I machines from Phillips and Sony.
   "Other personal computer makers will have to enter this market, and this
 will be there a year before CD-I," said Peter Black, president of Xiphias
 Corp., which is porting its Macintosh CD ROM, _Time Table of History_, to
 CDTV. Apple has sold only 1,500 to 2,000 Macintosh CD ROMs so far and has
 failed to create the mass market or momentum necessary to spawn CD ROM titles,
 Black said.
   Although multimedia experts such as consultant Tony Bove dismiss mass
 market, read-only CD ROM technology as too inflexible for business training
 applications, Commodore officials stress the low cost of CDTV, as well as
 Commodore's recently introduced Amigavision multimedia development system.
   Bushnell expects more than 100 titles, ranging from on-line encyclopedias
 and foreign language dictionaries to games. CDTV connects directly to a
 television set and home stereo unit. A hand-held remote control operates the
 player, and commodore will offer additional controls including a cordless
 mouse. CDTV will also accept a video genlocking card for mixing computer
 graphics with live video. The CDTV player is also compatible with conventional
 CD audio discs.
   Commodore International, 1200 Wilson Drive, West Chester, PA; (215) 431-9100.

    

    Here's where and when CDTV will hit the stores (paraphrased from
    Newsbytes):
    
    Apr. 19 - Chicago, Los Angeles, San Jose, San Francisco, and Sacramento
    May - New York, Boston, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Dallas, and Denver
    September - U.S. nationwide
    
    And, of course, at the Amiga expo in NYC this weekend!
    
    Wes

I'm not sure how or why but I received an issue of a small magazine called
"new MEDIA age" which had a nice article about CDTV.  If you can find a copy
it also has a few others about Ami and seems to treat her with the respect
she deserves along side MAC and IBM.

FYI

-steve

    re .16
    
    	It seems Paragon is not correct. The Fred Fish CD I have from
    Hyper Media does work with CDTV. They even sent the master disk to
    CBM to be tested. Due to some last minute chages to CDTV the CD is
    not bootable but it is readable.
    
    	The next version of the Fred Fish CD is going to be bootable.
    It is Due out in June.
    
    		Steve Peters
    

    The Memory Location had CDTV on display (and 4 or 5 in boxes) this
    weekend.

RE: Note 3827.19 Commodore's New Baby  (CDTV) CSC32::K_APPLEMAN

>    never seem to know diddly-**** even though they are an authorized
Hey, Ken, don't disparage DIDDLY.  Its neat software that I wish ran on the 
Amiga.  On the other hand, the Amiga may have been some of Dave Wecker and
Dick Helliwell's inspiration.

>    Ken
BobW

    The June AmigaWorld has a review (rather lame, IMHO) of the CDTV and it
    brings with it a lot of confusion; well, to my mind anyway. They list
    some CDTV titles, and one of them is the Fred Fish collection from
    HyperMedia Concepts. Without at least a floppy drive, which is not yet
    available (and was not mentioned in the article as one of the "soon" to
    be available options) what good would this title do you on CDTV?
    Without a Workbench or CLI/Shell interface, I can't imagine they
    rewrote or added a front end for all the hundreds of programs,
    especially the early stuff. I know that title was mentioned a few
    replies back, but after reading the article, it doesn't make sense for
    it to be used except for an add-on CD-ROM drive (ala A690, Xetec, etc).

    Also, the article mentioned retailers such as Montgomery Ward and Macy's
    as carrying CDTV. Anyone heard of any others involved? What does this
    do to the local dealers, or is that just for the time being; that is,
    once it hits mass market, will the locals not be carrying it?

    I'm very interested in CDTV, but I'd like to wait until an A690-like
    unit is available for the A2000. If it's true that these can handle
    all CDTV titles plus audio CD's and hopefully be able to read "regular"
    CD-ROM (ISO and/or High Sierra), it would make an awesome "platform"
    for CDTV applications, especially if it can take advantage of things
    like CPU accelerators and more expansion memory than what's available
    on the CDTV.

    Pete

	Isn't it possible to connect an ordinary Amiga floppydrive to
	the CDTV. As far as I know, the CDTV has the normal parallel,
	cereal ( ;-) and floppy interfaces.

	The CD-ROM reads HighSierra standard disks, at least the one in
	the CDTV; and the external/internal versions for all the other
	Amies is way to come I think.

	-hg

    Re: .22

�	Isn't it possible to connect an ordinary Amiga floppydrive to
�	the CDTV. As far as I know, the CDTV has the normal parallel,

    Yes, but does this mean that Hypermedia's CDTV Fish disk has the stuff
    built in to access the files on CD and convert them to AmigaDOS format
    or does CBM provide the hooks? I guess what I'm driving at is that
    since (according to AW) each CD diskchange reboots the CDTV and there
    is no Workbench or CLI to speak of and it's basically an A500 under the
    hood, what's the real OS in there? I mean, if you can add on drives and
    pointing devices and a keyboard, when does it become an A500 or will you
    never be able to run "regular" floppy-based software? In the AW article,
    there were a few current/future CDTV titles that are already available
    on floppy based systems (Barney Bear, My Paint, Falcon, Future Wars,
    Sim City, etc). What would be the differences between the two formats?

    Pete

    I was under the impression that some of the CD's do in fact present
    the normal workbench upon bootup.  Somehow the CDTV remote leaves you
    work with this.
    
    I would hope that the CD was simply another boot device for which
    CBM provides a driver.  Just because it uses a different type of
    filesystem shouldn't matter.  We've used a different one on hard
    drives and floppys for several years...
    
    I think the real question is what good would the fish disks be for
    a CDTV user?  Most of the sofware needs some kind of instal setup
    or customization which couldn't be done on read-only device.  Even
    those that don't would probably serve some purpose which produced
    data (text files, hi-score tables, or whatever) and this wouldn't work
    either.
    
    -steve

Re: .23

>I guess what I'm driving at is that since (according to AW) each CD
>diskchange reboots the CDTV and there is no Workbench or CLI to speak
>of and it's basically an A500 under the hood, what's the real OS in there?

Commodore folks on usenet have said that it has Kickstart 1.3 in it.

>I mean, if you can add on drives and pointing devices and a keyboard,
>when does it become an A500 or will you never be able to run "regular"
>floppy-based software?

I suspect that at that point you have an A500.  I doubt that it will have
any different floppy format: I don't see any advantage in doing so.

>In the AW article, there were a few current/future CDTV titles that are
>already available on floppy based systems (Barney Bear, My Paint, Falcon,
>Future Wars, Sim City, etc). What would be the differences between the two
>formats?

Commodore folks on usenet have said that it is pretty much possible to
take any 1.3 application and move it on to CD/ROM for CDTV unchanged.
However, you probably want to tailor the software to use the remote
control and be less dependent on the optional CDTV hardware like
the keyboard.  Also, you probably want to take advantage of the other
549 Meg that the CD gives you over a regular floppy...

Regarding "write" capability, the CDTV comes out of the box with a
front slot that accepts "personal memory cards".  These are 64k or 256k (bits
or bytes? - don't know yet).  These are advertised as being suitable for
storing game progress, high scores, reference trails through electronic books, 
personal configurations etc.  Cards are extra but apparently readily
available.

I'm off to buy one tomorrow (If I can find a shop with stock!).  I'll let
you know how it works out.


/Chris.

Well, as good as my word - I got one.  Rather, my son got one for his birthday
present - but I have sneaked a play with it. Very impressive little beasty it 
is too!

I had to search high and low - all the authorised dealers on Commodore's list
said that  they had been waiting for months and had not yet even received a
demo unit. - Any UK Deccies - you can get hold of a CDTV at Computer CAre South
on the Oxford Road in Reading.

The CCS guys are actually pretty knowledgable about PCs and the like.  I had
fun talkingto them.  They say that under strict "marketing guidelines" from
Commodore, they are not allowed to call the CDTV a "computer" as this term
alienates the target market that Commodore are going for.  They are marketing
this device as the centre of a family entertainment system - well integrated
with the hi-fi and the stereo TV.  Commodore are apparently insistingthat the
unit is displayed in a special format, apart from run ofthe mill PCs.

I know absolutely nothing about Amigas - having done all my hacking on regular
PC clones or VAXES - must say that despite having done an impressive job on
disguising the A500 to look like a top-class rack hi-fi unit, Commodore
have ensured that the CDTV is as open as possible to future peripheral
connections.  The DMA port is blanked (documentation not yet available).
The RGB port is on standard 23-way D-pin (no documentation), standard serial
and parallel ports are not documented, neither are plugs yet available for
the keyboard and joystick ports.  However, CCS had a floppy disk connected
up to the SCSI port and the machine was booting from it.  The video/audio
output is country specific - mine had stereo out on standard RCA phono
jacks and the video on a PAL RF modulato (ala a VCR), plus composite video as 
well on standard RCA phono jack (nice touch).

The only cable supplied is a mains lead and an aerial lead for looping into the
TV RF cable and a pair of leads for the audio output to the hi-fi - this is 
the way that Commodore wish to position this machine.

The really surprising thing for me was the sophistication of the basic
stereo-music CD player.  Using either the front panel (or better still the
remote and the TV display), a glitzy control panel comes up for controlling
the CD operation - everything that you see on top range CD players these  days.
The sound was excellent.

As with everything in the computer world these days - the software is the
differentiator.  Alas, I found the available CDTV titles to be pretty
unimpressive.  A couple of the discs showed some promise (particularly the
world atlas with maps, foreign language phrases, national music, high quality
shots of tourist places etc...) but at �60 we passed on that!  I would pay much
more however for a decent childrens' encyclop�dia if it expoits the full CDTV
capabilities - apparently, one is in the making.

The available games are not as wonderful as I thought they might be.  Certainly
can't believe that any of them use up a fraction of the 600 Mbytes of CD-ROM
storage available and everyone is sold separately!  Apparently, the 
publishers are cashing in on older Amiga software investment.  The best games
on display weren't even available on CD-ROM and were being booted from the
external floppy drive!

So, looks like I need to buy a floppy now - 'cos my son is already fed up
waiting for the encyclop�dia to arrive and has quickly mastered the silly
CD-ROM games we bought on Saturday.   I appeal to you regular Amiga owners -
can I get much "public domain" Amiga software that is interesting for kids?
Does it exist on the Easynet?  How do I transfer it to the correct format on 
floppy disk?

/Chris.

    
    Look at the stuff on the Usenet, there are news conferences which
    have PD sources and images in them. You will need to get ahold of
    the VNEWS tool to read these but that should not be to difficult.
    
    Roy.